The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[PoisonedSuperman]

What exactly was O'hare's gimmick in these promos and what was he doing with them? I can't even tell if he's a good guy or bad guy. I remember when he had a pretty sweet tag team in WCW with Mark Jindrak.

 

 

 

Anyone else read this from Superstar Billy Graham?

 

"For the WWE to induct into their Hall of Fame, Abdullah The Butcher, who has never wrestled one match under a WWE contract, is bordering on blasphemy. I am demanding that this company remove my name from their index of Hall of Fame wrestlers. It is a shameless organization to induct a bloodthirsty animal such as Abdullah The Butcher into their worthless and embarrassing Hall of Fame and I want the name of Superstar Billy Graham to be no part of it. The WWE and their Hall of Fame is disgustingly embarrassing, I want out."

 

I agree with him, I remember Abdullah from when I was a kid, I always thought he was a **** wrestler. I remember some stupid match in a cage where he was put in a chair and electrcuted. Well I actually watched the tape of it like ten years ago, don't really remember it but still. Also it is a WWE Hall of Fame not exactly the wrestling hall.

[lazorbeak]

Do you talk to casual fans or non-fans often?

 

Outside of this forum, nearly all of my interactions are with casual fans. Most of them aren't wearing Captain Charisma merchandise.

[Lostrelms]

What exactly was O'hare's gimmick in these promos and what was he doing with them? I can't even tell if he's a good guy or bad guy. I remember when he had a pretty sweet tag team in WCW with Mark Jindrak.

 

His gimmick was basically playing Devil's Advocate. he gave you the "Other" side of topics, like adultery, gluttony, lust, ect, the Not popular opinion.

 

The character was built to be the ultimate tweener. Could have been effing HUGE.

 

Shame it didnt work out. Was easily my favorite character done by anyone from WCW Post Invasion.

[eayragt]

Anyone else read this from Superstar Billy Graham?

 

"For the WWE to induct into their Hall of Fame, Abdullah The Butcher, who has never wrestled one match under a WWE contract, is bordering on blasphemy. I am demanding that this company remove my name from their index of Hall of Fame wrestlers. It is a shameless organization to induct a bloodthirsty animal such as Abdullah The Butcher into their worthless and embarrassing Hall of Fame and I want the name of Superstar Billy Graham to be no part of it. The WWE and their Hall of Fame is disgustingly embarrassing, I want out."

 

Meow. The fact he hasn't wrestled a WWE match is irrelevant - WWE includes WCW and ECW now, and he wrestled for both. Regardless, the WWE Hall of Fame has recognised wrestling outside the E/F for several years.

 

The fact he's "bloodthirsty"? I say tough - hardcore wrestling is a different beast, but it's still considered wrestling and Abdullah is a legend of it.

 

And the fact that the WWE Hall of Fame is "disgustingly embarassing"? Given that he was inducted along side Pete Rose how long did he take to work that out.

[dvdWarrior]

Meow. The fact he hasn't wrestled a WWE match is irrelevant - WWE includes WCW and ECW now, and he wrestled for both. Regardless, the WWE Hall of Fame has recognised wrestling outside the E/F for several years.

 

The fact he's "bloodthirsty"? I say tough - hardcore wrestling is a different beast, but it's still considered wrestling and Abdullah is a legend of it.

 

And the fact that the WWE Hall of Fame is "disgustingly embarassing"? Given that he was inducted along side Pete Rose how long did he take to work that out.

 

I think Graham's thinking Abdullah as "bloodthirsty" and his being in the Hall as "disgustingly embarrassing" goes back to this video on YouTube, where Graham was featured heavily.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWcpiHlBroM&feature=channel_video_title

 

For those who haven't seen it.

 

Seems like it's an issue that goes back a ways. Video kinda plays like an attack on Abby though, some might say, and tbh, I've rarely heard anything but good things about him.

[Moe Hunter]

Aren't Greg Gange and Stu Hart in the HoF, and never been in a WWE ring?

 

And in 'new' ECW it is arguable that no one was bigger than Christian during it's entire run.

RVD

Kurt Angle

Big Show

Vince McMahon

 

Enough of an argument?

 

I'm a huge Christian fan, but he was absolutely not the biggest thing going. Hell, the announcers gave him ZERO enthusiasm when he returned (much like when he was drafted to SD in 2005, though they gave him a *little* something when he returned at the EC this year).

[djthefunkchris]

Aren't Greg Gange and Stu Hart in the HoF, and never been in a WWE ring?

 

 

RVD

Kurt Angle

Big Show

Vince McMahon

 

Enough of an argument?

 

I'm a huge Christian fan, but he was absolutely not the biggest thing going. Hell, the announcers gave him ZERO enthusiasm when he returned (much like when he was drafted to SD in 2005, though they gave him a *little* something when he returned at the EC this year).

 

On this topic, I've been deliberately kind of NOT saying exactly what I think of Christian, but I think it's time I do. Since I also made a point of different opinions, depending on what seat your in (Casual or hardcore, mark or smark, or whatever), I'm going to give my opinion two different ways.

 

Smarky way: I've always thought of Christian as a great guy to have in the promotion, any promotion. I think he can make just about anyone look good, and I think he brings alot to the table in the ways of he can just about do anything... Play a bad guy, good guy, talk, etc. He isn't the best at anything, but a great all around worker in and out of the ring, for promos, interviews, match's, whatever the case might be he can do the job you need done. In that reguard I find him just about as good as they come. Someone I would NOT like to see go to someone else. Someone I would feel is an important part of the company, someone that can go up and down the card as needed. Can give that extra boost that is needed for someone else's career, etc...

 

Marky way: I've never seen Christian as a Main Eventer. I've always thought of him as someone to go after mid-card title's, and tag team titles. I would never pay to see a match, just because Christian is in it. He's a "Matt Hardy" type to me. Good enough to maybe get a main title, but not good enough to keep it. I find him humorous, but not as humorous as say... Santino. I Find him charismatic, but not as charasmatic as say... Chris Jericho. I find him exciting, but not as exciting as say... John Morrison.

 

As far as Kurt Angle is concerned...

 

Smarky way: I find his lifestyle (what I know of it) to be in shambles a bit. I think of him as trouble waiting to happen (but not necessarily trouble he would be solely responsible for). I'm worried about his health. If NOT for any of these negative thoughts, one of the best all around worker's anyone could ever hope to get in a 30 year period.

 

Marky way: Kurts awesome, believable, and can outshine or fit into any scenario, and I will believe it. IF he was to come back to WWE next Monday night on Raw, I would totally believe in him destroying The Miz in a match, almost effortlessly. I would see him as a MAIN EVENTER, from the moment he stepped on stage.

 

Like it or not, I believe I'm being as objectional as possible by using both ways of looking at things. I think alot of people look at him and think about all the stuff the casual fan wouldn't be aware of, and take these things into consideration when matching him up against someone like Christian somehow. The truth of the matter is he hasn't been gone long enough to make his name unknown, and the minute he showed back up it would be just like Diesals pop... better then Bookers. Maybe in between them. Diesal was gone for what...... more then 10 years? It took all of what... 10 seconds for people to recognize him?

 

Angle > Christian, without much thought needed. It's not even close. Silly to debate it in my opinion.

[Derek B]

DJ, I agree with you entirely. I like Christian but as you say he's one of those guys who isn't the best at anything while being good at everything. If he had the exact same skills and a marketable look then he'd be a champion many times over by now... but he's only got a good look and not quite enough of any one thing to be a top guy. I'm always happy to see him on screen and happy to see him in the odd main event match, but he is one of those guys that sits comfortable one step off the actual main event and probably will forever unless he can find a character that really hits home.

 

Would love to see him be a top guy, but he's not quite there. Unlike Angle, who probably will be there til the day he physically breaks down or goes to jail for something insane. Or both.

[djthefunkchris]

DJ, I agree with you entirely. I like Christian but as you say he's one of those guys who isn't the best at anything while being good at everything. If he had the exact same skills and a marketable look then he'd be a champion many times over by now... but he's only got a good look and not quite enough of any one thing to be a top guy. I'm always happy to see him on screen and happy to see him in the odd main event match, but he is one of those guys that sits comfortable one step off the actual main event and probably will forever unless he can find a character that really hits home.

 

Would love to see him be a top guy, but he's not quite there. Unlike Angle, who probably will be there til the day he physically breaks down or goes to jail for something insane. Or both.

 

/nod. The odd thing about Angle, and this isn't going to go into everything I already said, but.... I can look at Christian and look at say, the top people I think of when I think top of the heap in WWE/F, and say to myself... Do I think Christian could beat The Rock, Undertaker, Hogan, Austin, Cena, etc.. when they were at their peak in the wrestling bussiness? IF he did, do I think he would hold onto it more then one month? No... to both. Now, I look at Angle and I repeat the same question.... I think Angle could believably hold onto the title for six months, against any of them. Not so much that he is as popular, but so much as he is just as believable, if not moreso when it comes right down to it. So it's not even close in my book. This is the most "Marky" way to look at it, but I feel you have to ask yourself questions like that if your ever going to try to understand why people are booked the way they are. Other's that come to mind are people like Morrison. Would I like to see him there... yes... Is it believable if I match him up in the same way, not really.

 

Yet there are other one's that are not so cut and dry. That's a whole different conversation though.... Like, How would AJ Styles or Samoa Joe fair in the current WWE? I don't really know, unless I see it happen. I've seen both Jeff Hardy and RVD get to levels of popularity I didn't think would be possible, and I consider them around the same skill levels (when comparing skills all around).

[Derek B]

/nod. The odd thing about Angle, and this isn't going to go into everything I already said, but.... I can look at Christian and look at say, the top people I think of when I think top of the heap in WWE/F, and say to myself... Do I think Christian could beat The Rock, Undertaker, Hogan, Austin, Cena, etc.. when they were at their peak in the wrestling bussiness? IF he did, do I think he would hold onto it more then one month? No... to both. Now, I look at Angle and I repeat the same question.... I think Angle could believably hold onto the title for six months, against any of them. Not so much that he is as popular, but so much as he is just as believable, if not moreso when it comes right down to it. So it's not even close in my book. This is the most "Marky" way to look at it, but I feel you have to ask yourself questions like that if your ever going to try to understand why people are booked the way they are. Other's that come to mind are people like Morrison. Would I like to see him there... yes... Is it believable if I match him up in the same way, not really.

 

Yet there are other one's that are not so cut and dry. That's a whole different conversation though.... Like, How would AJ Styles or Samoa Joe fair in the current WWE? I don't really know, unless I see it happen. I've seen both Jeff Hardy and RVD get to levels of popularity I didn't think would be possible, and I consider them around the same skill levels (when comparing skills all around).

 

/nod. I always try to see things from the "mark" side of things instead of the "smark" side of things. I've had a lot of success in predicting guys who would later go on to big things (got a bet on Cody for future World champ that has been on for about 2 years now) and think I can usually see what is needed to become a major player better than the average man on the internet. Maybe not much better, but a little bit... because I've never let go of my inner mark.

 

Having said that, I've been wrong plenty of times too. I always thought Matt Hardy would develop into a top guy and for a while I thought he and MVP were going to be main eventing on Smackdown... and then they both fell away. I still can't believe Elijah Burke/Pope hasn't been a world champion cos he has all the tools but can't seem to quite make it to the top somehow.

 

I also find myself wondering what would happen to some TNA guys if they left for the WWE. I doubt Joe would get very far, not because of a lack of talent, but because he works best when working a style the WWE doesn't showcase AND the WWE seems hesitant to push people who don't have a certain physique. Strangely I think AJ would have more success as I think he has the psychology and athleticism to be able to do whatever he was asked to do, unlike most indy types who can be exciting but not necessarily get a crowd to care. I doubt he'd ever rise above the IC/US/Tag titles but I think he'd do well... assuming WWE didn't bury him for being a TNA guy.

[djthefunkchris]

It would be silly to mess up a guy just because he was in TNA... don't think I will ever see that happening (Jeff Hardy comes to mind).

 

I do think Joe could get over, even if he worked solid for his schtick.... I feel as though he has let himself go though, so I don't know how successfull he would be right now. He might wrestle different, but to be honest, so did Umaga, and I think he got over pretty good (and easily in comparison to some). Bring Joe in tough as nails, and not too much talk at first (I don't mean as a savage though), and let his ring work do most of the talking for him to start with.

 

When Elijah first showed up with that MMA type guy, I felt he had something. On ECW I thought he had something. IN TNA I feel he has something. I don't think your wrong, I just don't think Elijah/Pope has the political means, or perhaps he has a Kane mentality, that he is going to be a "Support" not necessarily a "Draw" type character. He might not even realise that people see bigger things, and he might not see it himself. I don't know how the bussiness actually works, but I have a feeling that if you don't ask, you don't get (unless there is just no stopping it).

 

So although you might see that as a failure, I felt he was the best guy in ECW when they had him there, and I do think he is one of the top guys in TNA... believably standing up to anyone that they put him against. All that being said, I will say there is an awkwardness to him in the ring at times, where he looks really amateurish... It's something that happens to Kennedy/Anderson as well. I can't put my finger on it, but at times they look brilliant, other times not so much.

[Rone Rivendale]

With these stringent definitions of big star, Raven is/was a "big star." Heck, he was ECW champ when it was more relevant, TNA champ, US champion when it mattered, and a better talker. Raven for WWE Hall of Fame 2012!

 

I would actually be in favor of inducting Raven. And I doubt I would be the only one.

[Derek B]

It would be silly to mess up a guy just because he was in TNA... don't think I will ever see that happening (Jeff Hardy comes to mind).

 

I do think Joe could get over, even if he worked solid for his schtick.... I feel as though he has let himself go though, so I don't know how successfull he would be right now. He might wrestle different, but to be honest, so did Umaga, and I think he got over pretty good (and easily in comparison to some). Bring Joe in tough as nails, and not too much talk at first (I don't mean as a savage though), and let his ring work do most of the talking for him to start with.

 

When Elijah first showed up with that MMA type guy, I felt he had something. On ECW I thought he had something. IN TNA I feel he has something. I don't think your wrong, I just don't think Elijah/Pope has the political means, or perhaps he has a Kane mentality, that he is going to be a "Support" not necessarily a "Draw" type character. He might not even realise that people see bigger things, and he might not see it himself. I don't know how the bussiness actually works, but I have a feeling that if you don't ask, you don't get (unless there is just no stopping it).

 

So although you might see that as a failure, I felt he was the best guy in ECW when they had him there, and I do think he is one of the top guys in TNA... believably standing up to anyone that they put him against. All that being said, I will say there is an awkwardness to him in the ring at times, where he looks really amateurish... It's something that happens to Kennedy/Anderson as well. I can't put my finger on it, but at times they look brilliant, other times not so much.

 

I wouldn't trust the WWE with a guy like Samoa Joe... not that TNA is doing much with him either. He's a guy who can be awesome when allowed to play to his strengths, but in the WWE I'm not sure they'd let him use his legit awesomeness to get over. He's not a Brock Lesnar or Kurt Angle style super-athlete and he's not big enough to be perceived as a monster like Umaga was. When Joe is allowed to cut loose he is awesome, but I think the more sports entertainment aspect parts of the business hurt his chances to succeed. Joe back in the X division tearing it up would be awesome. Joe in the WWE I don't think would fit. And the WWE doesn't have much of a track record with guys like Trevor Murdoch or Husky Harris, awesome talents who can really go but don't fit the typical image.

 

I understand you about Pope and Anderson... I hate Anderson's finisher as it always feels awkward and there are times when it makes me lose my suspension of disbelief. Matt Morgan too at times, but in TEW terms I think it's some performance stats just not quite being where they want them to be, a few shades off the top. But let's face it... since when has that stopped anyone from getting pushed to the top? Everyone I've mentioned in this paragraph is someone I've singled out as a future World champion. Perhaps not in the WWE these days, but hopefully one day.

 

As for politics, I don't know enough to comment. I can't imagine Pope being someone to not speak up since the character is his own in the first place... but that could also be something holding him back since perhaps the writers don't quite know how to book for him. I've already heard they just leave him to do his own promos, so perhaps it's something to do with that. In which case, I say fire the writers. Hell, I'd say that anyways for all major promotions.

[Teh_Showtime]

Yeah Pope/Burke has been awesome since 2004 with Sylvester Terkai(sp). He is one of the reasons I tune into TNA about once or twice per month. If he ever had decent support from creative teams, he could be big.

[djthefunkchris]

I think Trevor Murdock could have been set up as a great heel for just about anyone in the WWE, if they would have run with it. I felt like they were going to for a little while there, but then they released him out of the blue (or at least it felt that way). I just don't get what the thought process is sometimes, and I know I have no "real" inside scoops on things. I know they had a "real" fued going with Cryme Time, but they rehired Cryme Time, and I thought everyone worked out their differences.

[ZMAN]

Five years ago, I think Joe would have flopped on WWE programing. Now though, they seem a lot less critical on folks about looks and size. Lately there hasn't been too many new 'monsters' coming up who get superpushed. I actually think he would do really well now, since WWE seem to be going after guys with unique looks and backgrounds.

[Russo]

Five years ago, I think Joe would have flopped on WWE programing. Now though, they seem a lot less critical on folks about looks and size. Lately there hasn't been too many new 'monsters' coming up who get superpushed. I actually think he would do really well now, since WWE seem to be going after guys with unique looks and backgrounds.

 

The problem is Joe seems to have gotten sloppy and lazy and dont want to drop some pounds he lacks motavation maybe a change would do that? But I doubt Joe would want to got to FCW which is were he would be sent.

[jbergey_2005]

I think Joe would struggle find a role in the WWE. He wouldnt be near menacing enough to play a monster heel role because he is too small while he really wouldnt fit into that athletic exciting matches role either as while hes a fine athlete for his size hes just not going to be pushed by the WWE in that role. He could probably be in a fine tag team in the WWE cared about that which they dont.

 

I think Joe's best run of success will be where he is at.

[ZMAN]

I think there's always room for a chubby guy on the roster. Umaga was fat, Harris is fat. Plus he's samoan, and just about every samoan who has competed on WWE is fat, so he'd fit the stereotype perfectly.

 

There's always an exception to the FCW thing. Did Sin Cara, Danielson or ADR even spend a month there? I think Kaval was the only case of an experienced wrestler getting stuck there, but the dude got injured.

[Nedew]

I see Joe as a modern day analogy to Taz. If the WWE were to be really serious about pushing him, rather than starting strong then giving up on him, he could be a really solid big-quick-push guy. Like Brock too in a way.

[LoNdOn]

 

I think Joe's best run of success will be where he is at.

 

Sadder words have never been ushered.

[James Casey]

I'd be interested to see Joe in WWE. We can't say that they'd never use him - Punk is over, Danielson's just had a six month US title reign, Mysterio's a huge name for them and Jeff was given a huge a push. None of them are typical WWE guys, but all found the right niche.

 

A lot would depend on Joe. I don't watch much TNA, but I do follow it a little. It seems that since his feud with Angle ended he's been neglected. Poor booking has led to him apparently pretty much giving up (I may be wrong, of course). He's out of shape, he's probably suffering somewhat due to the long-term injuries he's picked up over the years, and TNA have lost interest in him.

 

He could ask for his release, spend six months on the indies and try and catch WWE's eye. He could probably get a development deal with them if he got back in shape and agreed to try hard - he's a big enough name I think WWE would go for it, and guys like Christian'd likely vouch for him.

 

Would WWE do anything with him? Probably not a World title push, although in the last few years Kozlov and Khali have delivered main events without anything like Joe's skill. An Umaga push wouldn't be out of the question - he has the talent to be portrayed as a bulldozer, after all.

 

I presume Joe's making decent money in TNA. It seems odd that he's prepared to stick around, as based on what I've read it seems he's been completely neutered there, and I'd have thought his ability to get a paying gig based on his TNA work of late must be fading fast.

 

*

 

Anyway, just wanted to share what I spent my Grand National winnings on yesterday:

 

Chris Jericho: Undisputed - £11

Ultimate Ric Flair Collection - £6

'Cause Stone Cold Said So - £1

Shawn Michaels: From The Vault - £8

Bret Hart: Best There Is... - £6

 

God bless Amazon Marketplace - I'm looking forward to seeing what sort of state qualifies as 'Used - Very Good' for the DVDs...

[The Shape]

I'd be interested to see Joe in WWE. We can't say that they'd never use him - Punk is over, Danielson's just had a six month US title reign, Mysterio's a huge name for them and Jeff was given a huge a push. None of them are typical WWE guys, but all found the right niche.

 

Punk is charismatic as hell and great on the mic. Mysterio appeals to the kids with the mask and the bright colours, Danielson has a certain everyman appeal and is a ready made underdog, as is Jeff who also has a weird x factor. Joe is...fat. There is nothing about him that suggests he could get over as a face, and as a heel he's not menacing enough.

[Eisen-verse]

Maybe it's just me but...

 

I actually find it quite off-putting that the WWE is trying to strip away the 'wrestling' name to their product. I mean, I get it from a business stand-point. I know how this will help them within the states from a perceptual basis; however, I find it to be slightly sad from an actual wrestling fan. To me, the WWE, whether we like it or not, is the gold standard amongst the industry. Now, trying to distance themselves from wrestling tradition, becoming so entertainment based that they won't even mutter the dreaded word 'Wrestling', even in press releases, makes me rather fearful for the future of the industry as a whole. It's going from a beloved craft, something that was rather cool to watch, to now a thing of blandness.

 

I know people will say that TNA has been doing this too, making impact FAR less wrestling than segments, but I still find myself firmly stepping over into their camp. Why? Despite doing a new production approach, making it seem more covert 'reality TV' like, at least they stand proudly as a WRESTLING company. Plus, with HBK gone, HHH on a limited schedule, Taker as well, I'm not really all that interested in ANY of their talent (That said, I like Miz and punk; don't get me wrong).

 

I guess maybe this is just a rant of a man growing older; sad to see the thing he came to love turning into a shell of it's former self.

 

Meh.

 

Cheers.

 

E-V

[PoisonedSuperman]

Maybe it's just me but...

 

I actually find it quite off-putting that the WWE is trying to strip away the 'wrestling' name to their product. I mean, I get it from a business stand-point. I know how this will help them within the states from a perceptual basis; however, I find it to be slightly sad from an actual wrestling fan. To me, the WWE, whether we like it or not, is the gold standard amongst the industry. Now, trying to distance themselves from wrestling tradition, becoming so entertainment based that they won't even mutter the dreaded word 'Wrestling', even in press releases, makes me rather fearful for the future of the industry as a whole. It's going from a beloved craft, something that was rather cool to watch, to now a thing of blandness.

 

I know people will say that TNA has been doing this too, making impact FAR less wrestling than segments, but I still find myself firmly stepping over into their camp. Why? Despite doing a new production approach, making it seem more covert 'reality TV' like, at least they stand proudly as a WRESTLING company. Plus, with HBK gone, HHH on a limited schedule, Taker as well, I'm not really all that interested in ANY of their talent (That said, I like Miz and punk; don't get me wrong).

 

I guess maybe this is just a rant of a man growing older; sad to see the thing he came to love turning into a shell of it's former self.

 

Meh.

 

Cheers.

 

E-V

 

Do you think that it would be sweet if there was an USPW type fed in real life? Where lots of older folks go to work for the nastaglia?

 

I do!!