The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[cappyboy]

I completely agree.

 

These days, tag teams in WWE are basically used as an excuse for setting up a fed between two former partners later on - and most often, it's sooner rather than later.

 

Back in the old days we saw people get extremely over as a teag team with chemistry, matching attires and gimmicks and double team moves. Look at how huge The Road Warriors got, for example. Individually, they weren't really main eventers (though did occationally dabble into the main event for singles matches)... but together, they were at the very top of things.

 

I don't think a proper tag division would be that hard to get in WWE. Let's say they're able to sign The Motor City Machine Guns and Beer Money Inc from TNA and re-form The Hart Dynasty as well as keep The Usos around, the foundations would be there. They could throw Swagger and Danielson together in matching patriotic attire, having them work under a patriotic gimmick as hard-working American wrestlers who use skills to get ahead in life and live the American dream. Corny, I know, but USA never seems to get tired of patriotism. They could also try to put together a couple of big guys lacking charisma to make it on their own and throw some paint and funny costumes on them in a Road Warriors/Demolition/Ultimate Warrior gimmick amalgram. It worked before, it might work again. I would personally tune in to see this tag division on WWE television each week.

 

Very good post. And from the (mostly) outside looking in, I'll go you one better. Let's say you go with the Swagger/Danielson idea. Swagger's been best known as a heel. Danielson's career path has been mostly face. Getting them to being an established team wouldn't be that hard at all. You do a "if you can't beat em, join em" story to start the team. And then you start emphasizing what a tough atmosphere the E is for tag teams and how guys have had trouble staying together long term. Stack the deck against the idea of Swagger and Danielson gelling and then they do. Then do the Hart Dynasty or Hawkins/Ryder reunion that's been mentioned to give them a natural heel rivalry. Mix those Uso guys in. Then do your Road Warrior idea and fill in with the combos Showtime mentioned to allow them to gel by the experience. Have all that happen you might not need to bring anybody in from the outside at all.

 

Whenever I watch either WWE or TNA, I see essentially the same problem. Both clearly have the talent to produce quality programming and yet for different reasons they are both reticient to use it. The addition of a Beer Money or Team 3D might be nice as far as accelerating the process of getting the tag teams back to respectability. But I've seen nothing in my nibbling around the edges that suggests any adding on would be a necessity. Focus would be a much bigger issue than personnel.

[shawn michaels]

I completely agree.

 

These days, tag teams in WWE are basically used as an excuse for setting up a fed between two former partners later on - and most often, it's sooner rather than later.

 

Back in the old days we saw people get extremely over as a teag team with chemistry, matching attires and gimmicks and double team moves. Look at how huge The Road Warriors got, for example. Individually, they weren't really main eventers (though did occationally dabble into the main event for singles matches)... but together, they were at the very top of things.

 

I don't think a proper tag division would be that hard to get in WWE. Let's say they're able to sign The Motor City Machine Guns and Beer Money Inc from TNA and re-form The Hart Dynasty as well as keep The Usos around, the foundations would be there. They could throw Swagger and Danielson together in matching patriotic attire, having them work under a patriotic gimmick as hard-working American wrestlers who use skills to get ahead in life and live the American dream. Corny, I know, but USA never seems to get tired of patriotism. They could also try to put together a couple of big guys lacking charisma to make it on their own and throw some paint and funny costumes on them in a Road Warriors/Demolition/Ultimate Warrior gimmick amalgram. It worked before, it might work again. I would personally tune in to see this tag division on WWE television each week.

 

You would, i would, people in here would...but not the WWE fanbase? Why? Because most of their target audience is kids and those will hardly know what a good tag team mach is. They will just be accepting whatever the E throws at them. That's why some superstars make so much success, (and i don't mean just Cena) because people will accept what the E throws at them. And it makes sense. If everyone understood wrestling like most of the IWC, no one would be in the Arenas anymore. Most of us look at a show in a already mechanical way, where we already know what will happen and the whole purpose of what's happening. Not only because it's predictable, but because some things need to be done.

Example: If i see john Cena wrestling a heel midcarder, i know he's going to win. Because he's the main eventer, and the midcarder is just there to keep Cena looking strong. The possibilities of the midcarder winning are slim to none, and would only become a reality if they had some sort of storyline prepared for them. But the kids or the marks don't really know what's happening, they jsut cheer for theire favourite worker (the main eventer) to win. If they saw at as we did...they wouldn't even bother thinking on wrestling again. Most people don't want to know that much about something tey like to watch just for fun.

 

The point is: People like what they get, Vince keeps giving them the same until the ratings hit some low point one day, so that means building a tag division is not on his plans! Why would he bother? That would probably cost him some money, as he would have to increase his roster. He can easily make more money by continuing to focus on singles feuds. Too bad...i'd love to see a proper tag division.

 

Wasn't the MnM the last WWE tag team really portrayed as such? It's been a long time since then. Now they just throw two single workers with no simialr attires, no chemistry...no nothing.

[Hive]

Very good post. And from the (mostly) outside looking in, I'll go you one better. Let's say you go with the Swagger/Danielson idea. Swagger's been best known as a heel. Danielson's career path has been mostly face. Getting them to being an established team wouldn't be that hard at all. You do a "if you can't beat em, join em" story to start the team. And then you start emphasizing what a tough atmosphere the E is for tag teams and how guys have had trouble staying together long term. Stack the deck against the idea of Swagger and Danielson gelling and then they do.

 

Adding to this, they could have Swagger still cheat a bit behind Danielson's back with Danielson trying to make Swagger forsake his still somewhat heelish ways. Kinda like the storyline WCW did with Sting and Lex Luger in 1996. I think enough time has passed to repeat that concept.

[Jaysin]

Deuce n Domino

Cryme Tyme

The Highlanders

London & Kendrick

Hawkins & Ryder

 

Five legit tag teams in recent memory and they tried separating them all(except the Highlanders) and failed.

 

They even teased a feud between Cryme Tyme and Deuce and Domino(would have easily been a money feud based on the gimmicks alone) and then just never got around to it.

 

Hawkins & Ryder were the last team around that I can think of that used a double team move for a finisher(double Edgecution).

 

During the supplemental draft, WWE staff were saying that if you want tag team wrestling, write into WWE, bring signs to events, or even protest events haha

[Hive]

You would, i would, people in here would...but not the WWE fanbase? Why? Because most of their target audience is kids and those will hardly know what a good tag team mach is.

 

I completely disagree with you on this. Just because WWE hasn't showcased any proper tag team wrestling for many years doesn't necessarily mean that their audiences won't appreciate it. How do they know untill they try? And I don't quite get your logic here at all: you say that the fans just accept anything the WWE throws at them. Well... if WWE then began throwing proper tag team wrestling at them, why would they not accept that as well?

 

I'd also argue that tag team wrestling is GREAT for kids. When I started watching wrestling, I really really digged tag team wrestling. Seeing two guys with matching gimmicks throw double team moves all over the place was really awesome to me. But I don't blame kids of today for not digging WWE tag team wrestling, as it's just two random guys in ordinary wrestling trunks doing their singles stuff in the same ring. There's nothing special or exciting about it.

 

I honestly don't think it would be hard at all to get a proper tag division in WWE again. They easily have the manpower to do 10 tag teams if they want to, they have tons of guys never shown on tv and lots of promising talent sitting in FCW. And since there hasn't really been much tag team wrestling on tv for a very long time, they could easily just re-do succesful tag gimmicks from the 80's and 90's. Not all of them would work today, of course, but I'm sure that lots of the big ones would.

[Hive]

Deuce n Domino

Cryme Tyme

The Highlanders

London & Kendrick

Hawkins & Ryder

 

Five legit tag teams in recent memory and they tried separating them all(except the Highlanders) and failed.

 

Yeah that's my point: nowadays, WWE just uses tag teams as a lazy way to get two people feuding later on. They often break them up way too soon and the feuds rarely get enough heat to really take them places.

 

Also, it's outright sad that this list isn't longer. I mean, it goes how far back? 4 years?

[shawn michaels]

I completely disagree with you on this. Just because WWE hasn't showcased any proper tag team wrestling for many years doesn't necessarily mean that their audiences won't appreciate it. How do they know untill they try? And I don't quite get your logic here at all: you say that the fans just accept anything the WWE throws at them. Well... if WWE then began throwing proper tag team wrestling at them, why would they not accept that as well?

 

I'd also argue that tag team wrestling is GREAT for kids. When I started watching wrestling, I really really digged tag team wrestling. Seeing two guys with matching gimmicks throw double team moves all over the place was really awesome to me. But I don't blame kids of today for not digging WWE tag team wrestling, as it's just two random guys in ordinary wrestling trunks doing their singles stuff in the same ring. There's nothing special or exciting about it.

 

I honestly don't think it would be hard at all to get a proper tag division in WWE again. They easily have the manpower to do 10 tag teams if they want to, they have tons of guys never shown on tv and lots of promising talent sitting in FCW. And since there hasn't really been much tag team wrestling on tv for a very long time, they could easily just re-do succesful tag gimmicks from the 80's and 90's. Not all of them would work today, of course, but I'm sure that lots of the big ones would.

 

Oh sure, the audiences would aprecciate if the E decided to throw it at them. The point is that i don't see Vince doing it right now. The guy seems to prefer focusing on singles wrestling. At least so it seems, if we look at these last years. And building a decent tag division would always imply some changes in the company, wich would always imply investment. WHy would he invest if he already has a safe product that people buy?

So, sure...people would buy Tag team wrestling if vince promoted it...but (and i'm just assuming his lines of thought) i guess he thinks: "Why botter putting something out there that would imply roster changes, investment, and so on, when i alredy have a safe profitable product?

[Jaysin]

Deuce n Domino

Cryme Tyme

The Highlanders

London & Kendrick

Hawkins & Ryder

 

Five legit tag teams in recent memory and they tried separating them all(except the Highlanders) and failed.

 

They even teased a feud between Cryme Tyme and Deuce and Domino(would have easily been a money feud based on the gimmicks alone) and then just never got around to it.

 

Hawkins & Ryder were the last team around that I can think of that used a double team move for a finisher(double Edgecution).

 

During the supplemental draft, WWE staff were saying that if you want tag team wrestling, write into WWE, bring signs to events, or even protest events haha

 

I did forget Hart Dynasty, The Dude Busters, Gate Crashers, and the Usos.

[shawn michaels]

It's just like cruiserweights or any other division in the company (Even the Divas Divison,cause now it's no more than the top models wannabe division). They all died. Singles competitors and top models wannabe are all what's left... I wonder why? Simple. He chose to keep what sells more easily. (i assume) And he sees no point in changing things. That would require work/money that he's not willing to do/spend. Even if he didn't spend that much or nothing, he would still probably find it not worthy of doing. The man is practical. Can't take that away from him. Most of us may dislike his actions, but he made WWE the undisputed #1 promotion in the world...and although we're amid a financial crisis he's still turning profits. Or was, last time i heard. So...i might disagree with him, but i don't see him changing his ways...soon, if ever. Unless the audience demands it. He only complies to things when the audience really demands it (when his paying clients demand, the ones on tha go to the shows and buy products, not those online), when it's something hot (Edge/Matt, for example) when it's a easy money maker or when he thinks he's doing something never seen before in that little twisted mind of his.

[ShaunGBD]

Gate Crashers.

 

Who was in that? I don't remember them.

[sebsy]

I'm with Shaun. Not a clue who they are meant to be.

[Bull]

Curt Hawkings and Vance Archer(aka Lance Hoyt) I do belive

 

They where on Superstars for a while claming the where on 30 day contracts trying to impress management or something of that nature i think

[Big Roguey]

Who was in that? I don't remember them.

 

I'm with Shaun. Not a clue who they are meant to be.

 

Curt Hawkins and Vance Archer were known as The Gatecrashers for a while last year on Smackdown.

[sebsy]

They must have had like 1 match on Smackdown no wonder I don't remember them as a team. Must have done more run ins than matches.

[Hive]

Oh sure, the audiences would aprecciate if the E decided to throw it at them. The point is that i don't see Vince doing it right now. The guy seems to prefer focusing on singles wrestling. At least so it seems, if we look at these last years. And building a decent tag division would always imply some changes in the company, wich would always imply investment. WHy would he invest if he already has a safe product that people buy?

So, sure...people would buy Tag team wrestling if vince promoted it...but (and i'm just assuming his lines of thought) i guess he thinks: "Why botter putting something out there that would imply roster changes, investment, and so on, when i alredy have a safe profitable product?

 

Again, I must say I do not follow your logic. Why would a tag division be a huge investment? They already have the workers, and it's not like some face paint and matching attires would ruin them. You say it would require too many "changes in the company"... come on, I'm not asking them to re-structure their organization or drastically change their product or direction of the company. I think you're being a bit too dramatic here.

[cappyboy]

Adding to this, they could have Swagger still cheat a bit behind Danielson's back with Danielson trying to make Swagger forsake his still somewhat heelish ways. Kinda like the storyline WCW did with Sting and Lex Luger in 1996. I think enough time has passed to repeat that concept.

 

Indeed. That could be a very good idea. Make people care about the team dynamics. That way as they are getting more teams around them, people are learning to invest in the Swagger/Danielson team. Give people reason to care about the team rather than the sum of its parts.

[djthefunkchris]

Again, I must say I do not follow your logic. Why would a tag division be a huge investment? They already have the workers, and it's not like some face paint and matching attires would ruin them. You say it would require too many "changes in the company"... come on, I'm not asking them to re-structure their organization or drastically change their product or direction of the company. I think you're being a bit too dramatic here.

 

Last I heard, Vince isn't into tag team wrestling because of profits. Singles wrestling is where it is. It's not about in ring, or production, or hiring more people, or anything like that. It's the fact he can make twice more with singles wrestlers then tag team's.... merchandise wise. An example could be, throwing Big Show and Kane together as a tag team, yet they are singles wrestlers selling merchandise. IF they were only known as tag team wrestlers "The Giants" or something, then they would only sell "The Giants" merchandise, and not Big Show merchandise, and Kane merchandise.

 

That's jus a rough example, it's more complex then just that, if you really think about it... and it's actually an optimistic outlook in my opinion. Your bassically saying that all wrestler's have it in them to sell merchandise on their own. I personally think some won't, but possibly could if partnered with the right individual, that also couldn't. To me, it's twice the chance to do so, and later could end up profitable as a singles if the tag team becomes big enough "The Brian Kendrick" I really think could have worked alot better if not for putting a gimmick on someone that can't really pull off that gimmick.

[Hive]

Last I heard, Vince isn't into tag team wrestling because of profits. Singles wrestling is where it is. It's not about in ring, or production, or hiring more people, or anything like that. It's the fact he can make twice more with singles wrestlers then tag team's.... merchandise wise. An example could be, throwing Big Show and Kane together as a tag team, yet they are singles wrestlers selling merchandise. IF they were only known as tag team wrestlers "The Giants" or something, then they would only sell "The Giants" merchandise, and not Big Show merchandise, and Kane merchandise.

 

Interesting viewpoint. Though I still think a proper tag team gimmick on people who aren't exactly merc movers could do well for sales as well. Not that I actually *know* anything about the business side of wrestling...

[Teh_Showtime]

If he cared about the merchandise, then he would sell Ryder headbands WWWYKI

[shawn michaels]

Last I heard, Vince isn't into tag team wrestling because of profits. Singles wrestling is where it is. It's not about in ring, or production, or hiring more people, or anything like that. It's the fact he can make twice more with singles wrestlers then tag team's.... merchandise wise. An example could be, throwing Big Show and Kane together as a tag team, yet they are singles wrestlers selling merchandise. IF they were only known as tag team wrestlers "The Giants" or something, then they would only sell "The Giants" merchandise, and not Big Show merchandise, and Kane merchandise.

 

That's jus a rough example, it's more complex then just that, if you really think about it... and it's actually an optimistic outlook in my opinion. Your bassically saying that all wrestler's have it in them to sell merchandise on their own. I personally think some won't, but possibly could if partnered with the right individual, that also couldn't. To me, it's twice the chance to do so, and later could end up profitable as a singles if the tag team becomes big enough "The Brian Kendrick" I really think could have worked alot better if not for putting a gimmick on someone that can't really pull off that gimmick.

 

Yes, this is part of what i was trying to say. The most important part. The bottom line is that it would be possible, probably cheap, but he just likes to milk the singles wrestling cow.

[djthefunkchris]

Interesting viewpoint. Though I still think a proper tag team gimmick on people who aren't exactly merc movers could do well for sales as well. Not that I actually *know* anything about the business side of wrestling...

I'm of the same mind though. I would rather try and give a worker all kinds os possibilities, such as tag team, to get over/sell merchandise in some fashion, then let them go only to find I missed the boat (Ezekial Jackson/Pope, for example).

 

The problem isn't just "Vince" though, and I'll explain after the last quote.

If he cared about the merchandise, then he would sell Ryder headbands WWWYKI

...Ya know... I don't like the guy, never thought he had anything going on at all because of the whacked gimmick. However, I'm going to step back and let you young guys tell me, Is this really working? I mean, do you really, from all sides of this, think this gimmick is worth future investment? I have a hard time with this, because I think the only reason anyone see's anything at all in it, is because it's pretty much unique. My thing is.... Unique can be good, great, awesome, etc... but it can also be very bad. I feel it's very bad, but if you younger folks really do think it has something going for it, besides another Santino comedy act, than I'll have to conceed that perhaps I'm being a little too old fashioned about it.

 

Yes, this is part of what i was trying to say. The most important part. The bottom line is that it would be possible, probably cheap, but he just likes to milk the singles wrestling cow.

 

Although I would agree to an extent, you have to realise that Vince no longer just thinks of "Vince", but the company as a whole, and bussiness is a much bigger aspect of the company then ever before. Not that I don't believe it's what "Vince" wants himself... I just don't think he's anywhere near alone in this decision, and I don't think if someone was to prove Tag Teams can be big bussiness, that he would ignore it just because he don't like them (which I don't think he likes them... I don't know for fact).

 

You have to consider that Vince isn't the only one making decisions. I think that's one of the biggest Kafabe type things going right now... The idea that Vince would or could do anything he wants just "because" he's Vince. He's an easy scapegoat, and he intentionally put himself in that position. You can't be a normal IWC Smark in this aspect, because most of the time, IMO at least, the IWC are the biggest non-smart "Marks" there are, because it seems obvious that certain leaks and such they "find" are there for them to intentionally find, and give them a scapegoat for finger pointing. Bassically, half the time the IWC doesn't seem to know what's going on, and always dismiss facts that go against their "cause", because they "think" they have more news/facts then anyone else. The whole debate on who is better in the ring, for example, is a debate no one could answer unless the wrestler's went into MMA to prove it. Most of the time, the IWC picks wouldn't be the one's people would bet on. That is something, IMO, they just can't get past, is how much looks do have to do with who people would "buy" into.

 

Anyways, I went off topic a bit too much, so going to close before I create a whole new paragraph explaining in detail as to why I feel as I do.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

The whole debate on who is better in the ring, for example, is a debate no one could answer unless the wrestler's went into MMA to prove it.

 

Being a good pro wrestler has absolutely nothing in common with being a good MMA fighter.

[Hashasheen]

...Ya know... I don't like the guy, never thought he had anything going on at all because of the whacked gimmick. However, I'm going to step back and let you young guys tell me, Is this really working? I mean, do you really, from all sides of this, think this gimmick is worth future investment? I have a hard time with this, because I think the only reason anyone see's anything at all in it, is because it's pretty much unique. My thing is.... Unique can be good, great, awesome, etc... but it can also be very bad. I feel it's very bad, but if you younger folks really do think it has something going for it, besides another Santino comedy act, than I'll have to conceed that perhaps I'm being a little too old fashioned about it.

 

I personally think it does work. The thing is, he's both entertaining and he's breathing life in his character. That's two things you don't get often in the WWE outside of the top guys and whoever coming up. Time was, you knew what gimmick a guy had and what he could do with it. But now, everyone's so bland it hurts to push a new guy.

 

We've got maybe 3 angry black guys, one of whom is a face (Mark Henry, R-Truth, Ezekiel Jackson). We've had three heel Jericho imitators (Miz, Ziggler, Riley pre-face turn). We've had fun babyfaces who can fly (Mysterio, Kingston, Bourne).

 

Imagine if you emphasized Mysterio's lucha background and roots more. Went away from the unbelievable underdog crap and emphasised the honor of lucha libre, how Mysterio is so proud to be a big name among luchadores and all that. People could feud with him when they mock the lucha libre style, mock Mexico, mock him meaning anything in real wrestling.

 

Imagine if Kingston was a fun babyface who could bring out an edge not unlike the Cerebral Assassin, something that makes you go "Damn, I do not want to get on his bad side". Any heel who gets in his way has immediate chutzpah for risking that and has to match his level of intensity.

 

Or what if Heath Slater and Justin Gabriel were close as two friends could be, but with different attitudes. Slater the wannabe rock-star, Gabriel the level headed superstar. Each tempering the other as they develop into a true tag team.

 

The thing I like about TNA is that they're not afraid to develop characters, idiotic or not. Most of that seems to lie in Russo, and it's one of the few reasons I tolerate his position in TNA. He's not afraid to shake up his characters a little bit.

[djthefunkchris]

Being a good pro wrestler has absolutely nothing in common with being a good MMA fighter.

 

/nod, to an extent, but your missing my point, I think. The perception that wrestler A would do better then wrestler B in an MMA, or for the sake of debate, lets just say a straight up fight. This matter's alot more then most are willing to admit. You have to make people believe that they could overcome strength, height, weight... whatever odds it would be, by being so much better then the bigger/stronger guy.

 

The IWC thing I was touching on, for example... Almost all of their opinions are based on an imaginary crowd that doesn't exist... which is grown folks believing that wrestling isn't fake on some level. Something I think Shaun was trying to say, but used solely Vince as his example, which lost the point I think.

 

There is almost a totally non-existant crowd, that actually watch's Professional wrestling, that actually believes it. Seems to me, the "general" or "Casual" fans think its actually "faker" then what it is.... Thinking everything is completely choroagraphed, and the wrestler's are bassically "dancing". Hight flyers and complicated acts, especially. The more savage normal punch's, throws, and perhaps a few bodyslams looks alot more "believable" and has a lot better chance of something looking unscripted... Wow, looked like Kane hit him for real! Has alot to do with stiffness, the other worker's ability to sell, which I think has more to do with timing in their reaction (Don't go "ouch" 2 seconds after you were hit). Most of the time, the more complicated things are so "easy" to spot the other guy helping them with (Certain finisher's seem to require more of the target, then the person doing the finisher, for example). When on the top rope (for example), how can you suspend disbelief, when you watch them both get into proper position, and both jump at the same time?

 

IWC believes that people actually are impressed with the same things they are impressed with, and while often times that is true, I see way too often that it isn't working anything like they think it is, if you were to look at it objectively/watch crowd responce's, and the like.

 

Just something to think about... Kafabe is hardly ever broken, unless a worker is hurt for real, or something of that nature.... However, it is always interesting to see someone "seem" to break out of Kafabe. Otherwise, what it is and probably always will be, is a soap opera for men, combined with a circus act for the children.

[djthefunkchris]

I personally think it does work. The thing is, he's both entertaining and he's breathing life in his character. That's two things you don't get often in the WWE outside of the top guys and whoever coming up. Time was, you knew what gimmick a guy had and what he could do with it. But now, everyone's so bland it hurts to push a new guy.

 

We've got maybe 3 angry black guys, one of whom is a face (Mark Henry, R-Truth, Ezekiel Jackson). We've had three heel Jericho imitators (Miz, Ziggler, Riley pre-face turn). We've had fun babyfaces who can fly (Mysterio, Kingston, Bourne).

 

Imagine if you emphasized Mysterio's lucha background and roots more. Went away from the unbelievable underdog crap and emphasised the honor of lucha libre, how Mysterio is so proud to be a big name among luchadores and all that. People could feud with him when they mock the lucha libre style, mock Mexico, mock him meaning anything in real wrestling.

 

Imagine if Kingston was a fun babyface who could bring out an edge not unlike the Cerebral Assassin, something that makes you go "Damn, I do not want to get on his bad side". Any heel who gets in his way has immediate chutzpah for risking that and has to match his level of intensity.

 

Or what if Heath Slater and Justin Gabriel were close as two friends could be, but with different attitudes. Slater the wannabe rock-star, Gabriel the level headed superstar. Each tempering the other as they develop into a true tag team.

 

The thing I like about TNA is that they're not afraid to develop characters, idiotic or not. Most of that seems to lie in Russo, and it's one of the few reasons I tolerate his position in TNA. He's not afraid to shake up his characters a little bit.

 

I read "fake" artical about Russo... What the heck are they getting so excited about Punks promo for? They think it wasn't a work? It was just a little reality thrown in, we do it all the time... Look what we did with Jarrett and Angle, with Angle's ex? It doesn't get anymore real then that!

 

I got it! We need to throw in more Reality!!

 

As I said, if people really think this is a "good thing", I'm going to just take it as my age is effecting my ability to grasp his character, and so I'll concede that it's good. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of having unique characters, especially the way you laid it out. I just for some reason feel like this "Woo Woo" guy is all a forced act that's not unlike someone trying to sound like something they aren't. If I can't believe that's how he talks for real, then I can't believe the character, and I think that's got something to do with it as well...