bigtplaystew Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Except CM punk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 If anyone forgot, this is the same Cena that took a DDT on concrete when he was2 on 1 and won the match withn 5 minutes. And the guy who, with hornswoggle eliminated 7 men from the RR in 5 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Except CM punk... There have been exceptions to the rule, and Punk is definitely first and foremost at this juncture. I will also say that I, personally, don't fault Cena for it. Which is why I included writers and agents, among others. In his position, Cena has the capability to elevate, he's the high tide that could lift all boats. I just don't believe he's given the opportunity to do so, and people like Sheamus and Barrett have suffered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hive Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Yes, a lot of people have had their most memorable moments in feuds with Cena. But is that really due to Cena's work, or due to the fact that the bookers gave them their best material and plenty of spotlight because they were part of the company's premier feud? How on earth can Batista being entertaining as a heel be attributed to Cena? Would it had made a difference had Orton or Triple H been in Cena's spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Right, HIVE, like I said. AGAIN. Lol.... THEY ARE ALL TALENTED IN THEIR OWN RIGHT Cant stress this enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I think it works both ways though. People look better due to the writers because they are in the top story, but the workers raise their game to get noticed and not outshined when in there with Cena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Ok, side note- Jericho's promos in WCW were so epic and awesome. Of course 1004 holds, Bore Us Malenko, but everything he did was just gold. Especially during the Malenko feud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Ok, side note- Jericho's promos in WCW were so epic and awesome. Of course 1004 holds, Bore Us Malenko, but everything he did was just gold. Especially during the Malenko feud. example:D ARMBAR!!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haloed Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Who can forget Jericho going to the whitehouse because of the conspiracy against him. Or his personal security, Ralphus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 dude i was in high school during the Ralphus thing. we were OBSESSED with Ralphus lol. We broke into my buddy's locker and posted Ralphus photos all over it one day after school... I mean like wallpaper-cover style tons of printed photos of Ralphus covering every bit of his locker and covered with clear contact paper haha. And a note saying he had a secret admirer lol... good times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Ok so this channel NWONITRO on youtube has like a 29 (or more ) video series on Jericho's rise in WCW. I think it's 1 or 2 segments per video. Remeber the times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candyman Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Did you actually read Arrows post or just that part? What would be the point? It was all nonsensical anti-Cena drivel. By the same logic, one could say that Cena didn't propel any midcarders to main event... booking did. No, that's not the logic at all. The point was that booking buried them AFTER THEY WERE DONE with Cena. Cena propelled them, and then booking buried them. Cena has no control over what booking does with workers after their fued with him is over. All he can do is leave them looking stronger and getting better crowd reactions than they were when they started with him, and that's what he's done with, what, a dozen wrestlers by now? Of course it doesn't surprise me that that's not enough for the Cena haters...he's supposed to go into the writers room and demand that they all go on undefeated streaks, dominating the roster, after he's done with them, I guess. Cena makes EVERYONE he wrestles look bad. They can't withstand a punch, 3 shoulder blocks, and being gingerly laid on their back a time or two, but Cena can come back from 7 vs. 1 odds. Yeah, no. He actually makes EVERYONE he wrestles look GOOD because they dominate the champ for 80% of the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Clearly it's Cena's fault that WWE went with Undertaker/Triple H instead of Undertaker/Barrett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Candyman, it makes people look weak if they dominate 15 minutes and can't win only to lose in 5. It negates all of the work they did if they lose that easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Candyman, it makes people look weak if they dominate 15 minutes and can't win only to lose in 5. It negates all of the work they did if they lose that easily. This. It's like, sure, you hit me with every single move in your arsenal. I hit you with five dumb ones and you lose! Their ENTIRE move set and beating him down < 5 dumb moves. Makes everyone he wrestles look like complete jokes. Hogan pulled the exact same thing, but he pulled it against ESTABLISHED heels we WANTED to see Hogan finally take down, not jobbers thrown at him randomly because that's all there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Im not complaining though, the past is the past. Cena has been on fire the last month or so. He sold more for Swagger yesterday than he did the entire Nexus angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Im not complaining though, the past is the past. Cena has been on fire the last month or so. He sold more for Swagger yesterday than he did the entire Nexus angle. Same goes for Punk at MITB. If he's ready to be part of the solution, my problems with Cena may be gone. If he goes back to being part of the problem though, WWE's going to fall right back into the same rut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I'm sorry, I just can't hate on Cena. He likes Fist of the North Star. Also I find him entertaining to watch as a wrester. Mainly FotNS though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Same goes for Punk at MITB. If he's ready to be part of the solution, my problems with Cena may be gone. If he goes back to being part of the problem though, WWE's going to fall right back into the same rut. What "rut" would that be? I'm not trying to start an argument but since this Punk angle happened ratings have gone DOWN, the buyrate for Money in the bank is up "20 percent" from last year. Thats great but up twenty percent in buys means it did the same numbers as Extreme Rules did this year. Which means that Punk's angle hasn't a single thing that John Cena and The Miz weren't already doing. Sometimes what we view as a rut is actually just sound business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hive Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I just don't get or agree with why people think Cena makes these wrestlers "look good". Yes, his usual routine is to take a heavy beating from them... but in the end, he always shakes it off and pretends their offense bothered him as much as a pad on the shoulder, ignoring anythin they did because he's SUPERMAN, and then takes them out with 1-5 moves. Like the match in which Miz and Riley beat him mercilessly for an entire match, crushing him on the concrete and other stuff, only for Cena to ignore it all and finish Miz with just ONE move... How does that make The Miz look good???? Now I can agree that sharing the spotlight with a huge star as Cena in itself can give them some credibility, but I can in no way see Cena "making them look good" in the ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Ignore me. Misread the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKnifed72 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I just don't get or agree with why people think Cena makes these wrestlers "look good". Yes, his usual routine is to take a heavy beating from them... but in the end, he always shakes it off and pretends their offense bothered him as much as a pad on the shoulder, ignoring anythin they did because he's SUPERMAN, and then takes them out with 1-5 moves. Like the match in which Miz and Riley beat him mercilessly for an entire match, crushing him on the concrete and other stuff, only for Cena to ignore it all and finish Miz with just ONE move... How does that make The Miz look good???? Now I can agree that sharing the spotlight with a huge star as Cena in itself can give them some credibility, but I can in no way see Cena "making them look good" in the ring. While I agree with your point I would say this...the heel is suppose to lose...can the face make him look good in the process? Yes. Should the face make him look good? Oh H*** Yes...but ultimately it's on THE HEEL to get himself over...let's not forget, at one point Cena was the loud mouth punk heel nobody really knew, then he feuded with, and lost to, guys like Angle and Lesnar...and he got over! (I personally don't see why, but yes...alot of people love John Cena) Maybe Cena isn't as talented as say Kurt Angle or doesn't have the psychology and popularity of Hogan back in the day, but if Miz comes out of his feud "weakened", it's Miz's fault...remember, CM Punk was just a coupla years ago getting "Buried" by JBL...and Orton...and Undertaker...and Jeff Hardy...but he's main eventing now...it's because he can get himself over with the fans. Chris Jericho has been beaten, embarrassed, humiliated and "buried" by everyone from HBK to Dean Malenko...yet if his music hit the PA to start next Monday night's Raw the place would explode!!!! Carlito ,for example, got a solid push, turned heel, lost to main event babyfaces and...uhm...right...he's gone...because he didn't get HIMSELF over with the fans Another example, The Rock supposedly "buried" Rikishi in their mini-feud way back when...everyone said he ruined Rikishi's career because he cut a promo on him then gave him the Rock Bottom...but he really didn't do anything he didn't do to, say, Triple H or Booker T...was it really the Rock that "didn't make him look better"? or was it Rikishi? Just saying...not that I'm defending or hatin' on Cena...his job is to sell tickets, t-shirts and orange armbands just like Hogan, Stone Cold, Sting etc...it's on the heel to make the fans "love to hate them"... Roddy Piper could do it, The Great Khali...not so much 'Course that's just my opinion...I could be wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTial Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Yeah, you're wrong. Not that you weren't right but most of that went away during Austin and Hart's feud or at least when kayfabe died. (Just to clarify: Austin can make himself look better but Hart is great at making others look better and combined you have something special.) The heel is supposed to be entertaining. The face is supposed to be entertaining. What that means is that it often falls down into gimmicks and feuds. The WWE is just a special place where any top guy can sell enough. It's just up to the top guy to increase the sales. To not get booed when they should be cheered and to not get cheered when they should be booed. Cena has improved though. More so than Batista. Cena can make wrestlers look good but it's the same as Hogan making anyone else look good. You get to a point where a crap product is shoved down your throat that an improved product just looks a lot better and by default, being better means the other guy looks good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Candyman, it makes people look weak if they dominate 15 minutes and can't win only to lose in 5. It negates all of the work they did if they lose that easily. A lot of people on here need to read this over and over again until it finally sinks into their brain. And I believe it was closer to 75-seconds between Cena taking the DDT on the floor and then handily beating the two remaining members of Nexus at Summerslam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hive Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Just saying...not that I'm defending or hatin' on Cena...his job is to sell tickets, t-shirts and orange armbands just like Hogan, Stone Cold, Sting etc...it's on the heel to make the fans "love to hate them"... Roddy Piper could do it, The Great Khali...not so much I'm not in disagreement with you here, I just find it odd and directly wrong to give Cena the credit for creating stars out of certain people. Like you said: they got themselves over, getting the "Superman treatment" from Cena wasn't what did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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