The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[djthefunkchris]

Kevin Nash might not have been as good of talent as some of those other guys, but his popularity outweighs that in this situation... We are talking about the WWE, where popularity outweighs ringwork.

 

Bringing up people like Vader, etc... Yes, Undertaker, Kane and Big Show, sure... But I don't think any of the other guys reached the height of popularity that Kevin Nash did, which is more important right now.

 

They hyped up his relationship with HHH and let everyone know exactly who he was when he come to the ring. This makes him important, and now he has become relevant. Doesn't really matter where they go, as long as they don't ruin him completely here (which is my worry moreso then worrying he goes over Punk). CM Punk could lose against this guy in whatever way they want to go with it, but Punk is young enough and healthy enough to actually bounce back from anything outside of outright burrying him and then releasing him. Even then, I'm not so sure he couldn't make a splash outside of the WWE, because I imagine he would.

[bookerman]

John Cena has held the WWE Heavyweight Title 9 times for a total of 1044 days which is 4th longest all time behind Bruno, Hogan, and Backlund. It's also almost double the amount of time that HHH, Austin, and Savage had the strap for. It's easily more than double the reigns of Orton, Michaels, The Rock (297 days), and Angle (also 297).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WWE_Champions

 

I think one important thing to pull from this is guys like The Rock didn't need the belt to stay over. I've often wondered this about Cena, if he doesn't have the belt but is still a big part of shows, how does it impact business? Less merch sales? Less house show income?

[bigtplaystew]

John Cena has held the WWE Heavyweight Title 9 times for a total of 1044 days which is 4th longest all time behind Bruno, Hogan, and Backlund. It's also almost double the amount of time that HHH, Austin, and Savage had the strap for. It's easily more than double the reigns of Orton, Michaels, The Rock (297 days), and Angle (also 297).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WWE_Champions

 

I think one important thing to pull from this is guys like The Rock didn't need the belt to stay over. I've often wondered this about Cena, if he doesn't have the belt but is still a big part of shows, how does it impact business? Less merch sales? Less house show income?

 

They had the belt off of him for a nice chunk of last year and he was still riding pretty high.

[tommyb]

I think one important thing to pull from this is guys like The Rock didn't need the belt to stay over. I've often wondered this about Cena, if he doesn't have the belt but is still a big part of shows, how does it impact business? Less merch sales? Less house show income?

 

I don't think it is necesarily about needing the belt to stay over. Sometimes, especially as a face, it is better to be chasing the title than to be holding it. Think about Orton, I think he was probably hotter before he won the belt last year than he was when he was holding it. Just being in the title picture, as a realistic threat not as a one-off challenger, is often just as good for getting/staying over as holding the championship. The thing is, because Cena's character is presented as being so strong, when he gets in the title picture it is harder to keep the title off him than it is to keep it off other guys. Even Orton, who is booked very strongly, is currently being presented as having a major weakness (anger management) which was used to get the title off him for a while.

 

I'm a little surprised that the list doesn't seem to show much correlation between face/heel divide and length of title reigns. I would have thought that you would see faces having lots of short reigns, and heels having longer reigns, because the most interesting storylines often focus around the face's quest to gain the title against the insurmountable odds of the heel champion. However, at first glance that doesn't seem to be the case. I guess that is offset by the benefits of having a face at the top of the mountain to benefit merchandise sales, etc.

[shawn michaels]

I don't think any of us really know what any worker is like. Without having spent hours backstage at a WWE event we don't know what is and isn't acceptable. When we hear that 'Worker A' did something to 'Worker B' and decide 'Worker A' is a bad person, we don't really know that 'Worker B' hadn't been pushing 'Worker A' over the edge for a while.

 

Even when a respected insider (or multiple insiders) who's judgment we trust says something about a worker in an interview we don't know how accurate it is. They could be coming off working several hard shows, a couple of extensive fan appearances, and another difficult interview with a dick of a radio show host, and then had 'X' accidentally do something to annoy them, so when 'X' is mentioned in the interview they may be more critical than they would normally be.

 

Moreover, we can't judge workers based off how they treat fans (unless they do something really over the top). A worker who isn't really very nice may be very good at putting it on for the fans, and a worker who is actually a great guy may not be so comfortable slipping into a rapport with random strangers and so the fans get a false impression of both guys.

 

Finally, in an industry that is bound to have a lot of egos, people competing directly against eachother for spots, and coming from many different backgrounds and areas, there is always going to be a clash of personalities. Two wrestlers who are both really great guys may get on badly, and instantly people want to say that one of them is great and a victim of the other's dickishness, when in reality they are just two guys who don't really like eachother forced into a high pressure environment together on a regular basis.

 

In short, what I'm unnecessarily trying to say is, we all know how stories change over time and how different people tell the same story in a completely different way. We all know how someone can get along poorly with one person who has a lot of influence and suddenly several other people turn on them too for very little reason. Therefore, we really have very little idea what any wrestlers we don't know personally are actually like, even when we think we have the inside scoop.

 

However, Soxfan is correct. He isn't anymore. And Bret was no saint either. And this last sentence basically resumes your post.

 

Christian had a one month title run...that's the big plan they had for him??? Really??? I know he's been on the spot for the last months....but one month run...really??? C'mon!!!!

[Lexa90]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="shawn michaels 82" data-cite="shawn michaels 82" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Christian had a one month title run...that's the big plan they had for him??? Really??? I know he's been on the spot for the last months....but one month run...really??? C'mon!!!!</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't think anyone believed that Christian would win Randy Orton cleanly in a No-Holds barred match on one of the biggest PPV of he year <img alt=";)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[djthefunkchris]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="shawn michaels 82" data-cite="shawn michaels 82" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>However, Soxfan is correct. He isn't anymore. And Bret was no saint either. And this last sentence basically resumes your post.<p> </p><p> Christian had a one month title run...that's the big plan they had for him??? Really??? I know he's been on the spot for the last months....but one month run...really??? C'mon!!!!</p></div></blockquote><p> I felt it was too long as well. Should have cut it a bit shorter.</p>

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Lexa90" data-cite="Lexa90" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't think anyone believed that Christian would win Randy Orton cleanly in a No-Holds barred match on one of the biggest PPV of he year <img alt=";)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's the point of my post. Or part of it. I really don't like the big plan they ahd for Christian if it includes making him a transitional champ.</p>

[Astil]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I felt it was too long as well. Should have cut it a bit shorter.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Like his first run.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

In all honesty Christian is the same type of wrestler like Beniot, Eddie, or Jericho. He can go up and down the card at will because he is a reliable hand and can become a credible ME when it calls.

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In all honesty Christian is the same type of wrestler like Beniot, Eddie, or Jericho. He can go up and down the card at will because he is a reliable hand and can become a credible ME when it calls.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Sure. We all know that, but will he ever be treated like something other than a floating worker and a "put randy ortong guy of the week/month/and so on" and have a decent title run? On that lasts more than 5 days or a month? I like Orton, but this Cena type of push on him is beggining to grow sick on me. I really don't want to hate Orton, as i said, i like the guy, but they keep shuving him down our throats.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

I would rather the feud be over and Orton have the title if that means the feud can die. He will land on his feet but he has to feud with the undercard to get them over right now and I accept that.

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I would rather the feud be over and Orton have the title if that means the feud can die. He will land on his feet but he has to feud with the undercard to get them over right now and I accept that.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah, the feud should die. And it could have ended with Christian as champ. HE would have a decent reign and Orton could spend some time doing his thing (feuds where he never/rarely loses) with some other guy that he would probably put over just ny winning. But hey, let's wait for Christian to put the undercard over. I mean, he's 37...he has year available to wait for some good title runs (or even one).</p><p> </p><p> I don't mean to seem critic of your position, Greg, i'm just pissed at the situation itself and i'm taling about it. A situation that i obviously don't like. Bit it's not an attack to you in any way. <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Teh_Showtime]

I understand you but really that's more about the length of title reigns today. He was only in the main event for the whole summer.

[bigtplaystew]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In all honesty Christian is the same type of wrestler like Beniot, Eddie, or Jericho. He can go up and down the card at will because he is a reliable hand and can become a credible ME when it calls.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Agreed. Christian's been awesome this summer. I hope they give him something nice for wrestlemania. He deserves it.</p>

[djthefunkchris]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Astil" data-cite="Astil" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Like his first run.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I was just joking.</p><p> </p><p> I swear though, supposed "Smarks" get upset about their favorite wrestler's alot worse then "Marks" do, or at least they are alot louder about it. I love it actually, it always looks like the WWE is playing more on the Smarks (and making them marks) moreso then normal fans these days.</p>

[Astil]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I was just joking.<p> </p><p> I swear though, supposed "Smarks" get upset about their favorite wrestler's alot worse then "Marks" do, or at least they are alot louder about it. I love it actually, it always looks like the WWE is playing more on the Smarks (and making them marks) moreso then normal fans these days.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I know you were as was I. I was continuing your joke.</p><p> </p><p> You don't know my humor by now DJ?</p>

[djthefunkchris]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I would rather the feud be over and Orton have the title if that means the feud can die. He will land on his feet but he has to feud with the undercard to get them over right now and I accept that.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I understand you but really that's more about the length of title reigns today. He was only in the main event for the whole summer.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> See, to me this is more of a "Smart Mark" comment... Smarks are supposed to understand the system, and there are only a handful of guys on the roster that can play great heels, and work in between the cards to get other's over. </p><p> </p><p> Right now, I mean... It's been foreseen on here for a good while, even in statements by Arrows about building everything around Cena, etc... These statements have a bit of truth to them. You have a couple guys elevated very high, to where you would expect people to be elevated in the WWE... Cena, Undertaker, Randy Orton (for now), and CM Punk (Almost), really... I can't say there is anyone else at that level right now. People that can move up and down the card to elevate other's are very needed, as you can't have your main guys losing all the time (which is the one's I just said). Your going to have to have people like Mark Henry, Kane, Big Show, Jericho, and CHRISTIAN, that can move up and down the card to get other's elevated. These types of worker's are VERY important, and I'm pretty sure WWE realises that, and that they realise it.... It's part of the "game". It's part of the "Show".</p>

[djthefunkchris]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Astil" data-cite="Astil" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I know you were as was I. I was continuing your joke.<p> </p><p> You don't know my humor by now DJ?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Oh, I knew you were. I just didn't want us to be missunderstood.<img alt=":cool:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/cool.png.f00d2562b2c1d873a09323753efdb041.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Astil]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Oh, I knew you were. I just didn't want us to be missunderstood.<img alt=":cool:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/cool.png.f00d2562b2c1d873a09323753efdb041.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> /nod <img alt=":cool:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/cool.png.f00d2562b2c1d873a09323753efdb041.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[michgcs]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Astil" data-cite="Astil" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>/nod <img alt=":cool:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/cool.png.f00d2562b2c1d873a09323753efdb041.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> SCUUUM! <img alt=":eek:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/eek.png.0e09df00fa222c85760b9bc1700b5405.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[moon_lit_tears]

Get back on topic before you get yelled at again. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[Imarevenant]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="moon_lit_tears" data-cite="moon_lit_tears" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Get back on topic before you get yelled at again. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Where is Bangers old avatar when you need it...</p>

[djthefunkchris]

Where is Bangers old avatar when you need it...

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l49/djthefunkychris/imagesCAVJ9MUC.jpg

[moon_lit_tears]

You guys are terrible!

 

I <3 Cena.