The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Zeel1]

What a bizarre entry order that was. It seemed to go like this;

 

1. RAW Heels

2. SD! Faces (All four of them)

3. Divas

4. Referees

5. SD! Heels

6. RAW Faces

7. Jerry Lawler

 

The hell?!

[Zeel1]

I like that Laurinaitis came out just to leave.

[Prophet]

I like that Laurinaitis came out just to leave.

 

That's not true ... he came out to dramatically pause ... and then leave.

[Jaysin]

One of my roommates and I are watching Hell in a Cell. Sin Cara vs Sin Cara wasn't bad as everyone was saying. It was a little clunky at parts, but the crowd really killed it more than Mistico and Hunico did. They worked really hard and I was entertained.

[OldStingberg]

It's pretty incredible that the Summer of Punk has turned into the Fall of Triple H. It's not the COO storyline itself that is killing me right now. I don't really like it, but I could put up with it. It's that they're doing this storyline at the expense of Punk. They took the belt off him at nearly the earliest possible opportunity, they killed his white-hot momentum, they've had him getting pinned essentially close out the last three PPVs, he has no serious feuds going right now, and he hasn't cut an even-halfway notable promo in at least a month. And Punk is easily the best worker on the roster and the guy who was the WWE's best chance to be the next breakout star. It's literally almost inconceivable what has happened to him.

 

It's very easy to see why Triple H has a reputation for having a huge ego, though.

 

Anyway, loved the 12-man match tonight. More stuff like that should be closing out TV shows. I would have liked to have seen Zack Ryder in Mason Ryan's spot, what with my desire to see a talented worker who actually has fans get the main event rub, but whatever, if that's my biggest complaint with a match, that's fine.

 

I continue to love what they're doing with Mark Henry and Cody Rhodes. Dolph Ziggler continues to be awesome and about as sure-fire a success as a main event heel that the WWE has right now, if they can just find a reasonable way to rid him of Vickie and the US title.

 

All in all, I'd actually probably be loving what the WWE was doing right now if they were focusing on Punk/Cena/ADR instead of Triple H with their main program.

[Jaysin]

UGH!!!

 

WWE did something at HiaC that annoys the hell out of me. WHY did Mark Henry come out first? Maybe I'm just used to the champion coming out second to look more important, but what the hell?

 

I know that's minor and shouldn't make me so angry, but it's a little pet peeve I have.

 

Also, Cody unveiling the classic IC title was awesome.

[TakerNGN74]

UGH!!!

 

WWE did something at HiaC that annoys the hell out of me. WHY did Mark Henry come out first? Maybe I'm just used to the champion coming out second to look more important, but what the hell?

 

I know that's minor and shouldn't make me so angry, but it's a little pet peeve I have.

 

Also, Cody unveiling the classic IC title was awesome.

 

They have the champion enter first a lot now days and it really makes me mad as well but its something I can live with. I understand where your coming from though because its a big pet peeve of mine as well. I don't mind it in a Divas match or a tag team title match but in the World Title or the WWE Title matches the champions should always come out last but that is just my opinion.

 

Them bringing back the classic IC title was awesome and I can only hope that Del Rio will bring out a classic version of the WWE Title or a different title because I hate the look of the WWE Title. It's Cenas belt which basically means that whoever is holding the belt is keeping it warm for Cena as long as they have that belt design.

[Tha Black Phenom]

It's pretty incredible that the Summer of Punk has turned into the Fall of Triple H. It's not the COO storyline itself that is killing me right now. I don't really like it, but I could put up with it. It's that they're doing this storyline at the expense of Punk. They took the belt off him at nearly the earliest possible opportunity, they killed his white-hot momentum, they've had him getting pinned essentially close out the last three PPVs, he has no serious feuds going right now, and he hasn't cut an even-halfway notable promo in at least a month. And Punk is easily the best worker on the roster and the guy who was the WWE's best chance to be the next breakout star. It's literally almost inconceivable what has happened to him.

 

All in all, I'd actually probably be loving what the WWE was doing right now if they were focusing on Punk/Cena/ADR instead of Triple H with their main program.

 

I think the problem is you just care too much about Punk and wish the show revolved around him still but it can't always go down like that. Yeah, Summer of Punk - he was the center of attention, and it was succulent. But that's the past man. The spotlight will eventually gravitate around someone else. Sure it's Triple H, but.. it's a storyline about power struggle, if Vince were in his shoes it'd be essentially the same thing, same amount of attention geared towards it. Everyone has to take a backseat sometime, Miz did after he lost the belt, Swagger, Ziggler, etc. And I know those are mostly different situations but still. If Punk's easily the best worker, he'll find a way to keep himself relevant, will he not?

 

Punk's established now. Established as a top face not named Cena or Orton, at least be grateful for that.

 

WHY did Mark Henry come out first? Maybe I'm just used to the champion coming out second to look more important, but what the hell?

 

I know that's minor and shouldn't make me so angry, but it's a little pet peeve I have.

 

It's certainly minor considering champions have come out first for years... even Cena, Trips, Orton, etc have on certain PPVs.

 

In fact... I even recall that happening in the Attitude Era.

[OldStingberg]

Them bringing back the classic IC title was awesome and I can only hope that Del Rio will bring out a classic version of the WWE Title or a different title because I hate the look of the WWE Title. It's Cenas belt which basically means that whoever is holding the belt is keeping it warm for Cena as long as they have that belt design.

 

Not to keep harping on Punk, but he'd be the perfect guy to pull off a belt switcheroo. He and his character have that reverence for the old school wrestlers and the titles they had and he would undoubtedly bristle at carrying around Cena's gaudy belt. Imagine giving Punk an extended run with the WWE title and having him bring back the eagle belt.

 

Damn it, this is making me really want to download a real world mod and do this.

[TakerNGN74]

Not to keep harping on Punk, but he'd be the perfect guy to pull off a belt switcheroo. He and his character have that reverence for the old school wrestlers and the titles they had and he would undoubtedly bristle at carrying around Cena's gaudy belt. Imagine giving Punk an extended run with the WWE title and having him bring back the eagle belt.

 

Damn it, this is making me really want to download a real world mod and do this.

 

I wouldn't mind Punk doing that actually I would prefer Punk bringing back a classic WWE title over anyone. However I am so sick of the WWE Title the way it is (John Cenas Belt) so if anyone did it I would be happy and I wouldn't care who did it as long as someone did it. The WWE Title they have now will forever be John Cena's belt to me but thats just my opinion. A few of my friends have told me that they don't mind it as long as it doesn't spin which it doesn't anymore but I still hate it and I always will till they change it.

[OldStingberg]

I think the problem is you just care too much about Punk and wish the show revolved around him still but it can't always go down like that. Yeah, Summer of Punk - he was the center of attention, and it was succulent. But that's the past man. The spotlight will eventually gravitate around someone else. Sure it's Triple H, but.. it's a storyline about power struggle, if Vince were in his shoes it'd be essentially the same thing, same amount of attention geared towards it. Everyone has to take a backseat sometime, Miz did after he lost the belt, Swagger, Ziggler, etc. And I know those are mostly different situations but still. If Punk's easily the best worker, he'll find a way to keep himself relevant, will he not?

 

Punk's established now. Established as a top face not named Cena or Orton, at least be grateful for that.

 

Actually, I don't care about Punk much at all. I mean, not him specifically.

 

I care about the best workers getting over, especially when they almost single-handedly get themselves over. In this case, it's Punk. If it would have been David Otunga that pulled off the summer Punk had, I'd be rallying behind David Otunga.

 

And you say that everyone's gotta take a backseat sometime. That's the thinking, that guys can and even should just be rotated in and out of the main event every few months when needed, that has led the WWE to the point where they are now where they have exactly two active wrestlers that can legitimately main event a PPV right now.

 

Punk gave them an opportunity to have a third guy capable of carrying a main event, but the WWE has instead pushed him aside so that Triple H can close out shows and soak in applause from the crowd. It's pretty telling that your best comparison to what's happening to Punk is what has happened to The Miz, Swagger, and Ziggler, three young talented guys who as a result of the booking are totally and completely incapable of main eventing a PPV right now unless it's against Cena or Orton.

 

It's an absolute shame what has happened to Punk. You can certainly like what the WWE is doing overall right now. I won't, and can't, argue that. But there's just no way to say they didn't totally mess up what Punk gave them. And I don't know why any wrestling fan, to some degree, wouldn't be a bit regretful about that.

[Tha Black Phenom]

It's pretty telling that your best comparison to what's happening to Punk is what has happened to The Miz, Swagger, and Ziggler, three young talented guys who as a result of the booking are totally and completely incapable of main eventing a PPV right now unless it's against Cena or Orton.

 

Yet Punk can... so there you go. He could headline against Del Rio or Miz or another rising star in a PPV main-event without Cena or Orton being involved. I even think Sheamus is getting there very soon enough.

 

I see what you mean about the rotation, but being "pushed aside" is pushing it when he's in the title picture-- nay, when he can be shown to now be a permanent fixture in the main-event scene. HHH isn't a full-time wrestler anyway, so I don't see the big deal. He's an authority figure, and if something revolves around him, he will likely close out shows every now and then, I would think I'm not the only one bracing for this. But obviously, the WWE title picture won't be consistently the secondary aspect of the show.

 

And if you care about the best workers getting over, well obviously your expectations are in the wrong place. In the words of Del Rio, but you already know that.

[juggaloninjalee]

I am not really one to complain about WWE programming. I really dislike this whole HHH GM main focus as well. If HHH was a wrestler and in the main program it would be fine but I don't care who the GM is. The vote of confidence thing was a waste of time for me and I wish I didn't watch. I was hoping that Miz and Truth would jump Hunter after everyone left so nobody could help him. Then HHH could ask HBK for help and bring him back for a tag team match against them. I'd love that. It just ended with HHH just standing there though. Kinda lame.

[OldStingberg]

Yet Punk can... so there you go. He could headline against Del Rio or Miz or another rising star in a PPV main-event without Cena or Orton being involved. I even think Sheamus is getting there very soon enough.

No. They hotshotted Punk back and put him in the main event of Summerslam with Triple H and Cena and the buyrate fell 14% from last year. And that was when Punk still had momentum.

 

I'm not necessarily putting that on Punk, but it does clearly show that Punk's presence can't carry a PPV main event, even with Cena and Triple H involved. The idea of Punk headlining a PPV against ADR or The Miz right now is pretty crazy.

 

I see what you mean about the rotation, but being "pushed aside" is pushing it when he's in the title picture-- nay, when he can be shown to now be a permanent fixture in the main-event scene. HHH isn't a full-time wrestler anyway, so I don't see the big deal. He's an authority figure, and if something revolves around him, he will likely close out shows every now and then, I would think I'm not the only one bracing for this. But obviously, the WWE title picture won't be consistently the secondary aspect of the show.

Punk is in the title picture about as much as Morrison was in the title picture against Mark Henry last night. Punk got one half-assed defense of his title before they took it off of him and sent him on a run of getting pinned in every notable match he's had. He's got no momentum, no feuds, no promos, no notable wins lately, so even by WWE standards that's hard to say he's really in the title picture.

[Self]

I can't believe anyone cares who is 'in charge' of a wrestling show these days. TNA does these angles all the time. Now WWE are running with it. I don't get it. What happened to the wrestlers and the matches being the focus? I'm all for storylines and writers and soap opera elements in wrestling, but this whole 'General Manager/Chairman/COO' stuff has been done to death for over a decade now. Change the record.

[juggaloninjalee]

I can't believe anyone cares who is 'in charge' of a wrestling show these days. TNA does these angles all the time. Now WWE are running with it. I don't get it. What happened to the wrestlers and the matches being the focus? I'm all for storylines and writers and soap opera elements in wrestling, but this whole 'General Manager/Chairman/COO' stuff has been done to death for over a decade now. Change the record.

 

I want the main focus to be on the top title! That is how you get over how great the guys are fighting for it.

[DaMegaFish]

I for one am loving the main story on RAW with the whodunit and whatnot. To me, it is by far one of the best storylines they've put together in recent memory. I don't always watch RAW, but lately I've been making sure to keep up with it.

 

Sure, you can say the focus NEEDS to be on the WWE Title, and I would agree typically, but even in this story, it still is. The WWE Title situation is what has been one of the biggest driving factors in this storyline since it took off. The storyline also started with CM Punk IMO. This storyline started with CM Punk winning, and leaving at MITB. The storyline then has been focused on Triple H and the WWE Title, including a match at Summerslam with the wonky ending. The focus then shifted a little bit as Nash and Punk looked determined to meet. The WWE title was removed from the story a little bit during ADR and Cena but really, thats fine since Cena has a claim to a rematch anyway. Not to mention, the championship became a part of the crazy storyline again at HIAC when all the choas revolved around that match and title again.

 

They aren't focusing this storyline on midcarders or just Triple H. Most main event level guys are being kept involved in it, and the title is usually there, as a strong piece to the puzzle. The difference between RAW right now, and any other time IMO is that right now, the show is all pulled together by mostly one storyline, opposed to 3-4 different stories running at once. I for one, as stated before, actually like where this is going.

[juggaloninjalee]

I for one am loving the main story on RAW with the whodunit and whatnot. To me, it is by far one of the best storylines they've put together in recent memory. I don't always watch RAW, but lately I've been making sure to keep up with it.

 

Sure, you can say the focus NEEDS to be on the WWE Title, and I would agree typically, but even in this story, it still is. The WWE Title situation is what has been one of the biggest driving factors in this storyline since it took off. The storyline also started with CM Punk IMO. This storyline started with CM Punk winning, and leaving at MITB. The storyline then has been focused on Triple H and the WWE Title, including a match at Summerslam with the wonky ending. The focus then shifted a little bit as Nash and Punk looked determined to meet. The WWE title was removed from the story a little bit during ADR and Cena but really, thats fine since Cena has a claim to a rematch anyway. Not to mention, the championship became a part of the crazy storyline again at HIAC when all the choas revolved around that match and title again.

 

They aren't focusing this storyline on midcarders or just Triple H. Most main event level guys are being kept involved in it, and the title is usually there, as a strong piece to the puzzle. The difference between RAW right now, and any other time IMO is that right now, the show is all pulled together by mostly one storyline, opposed to 3-4 different stories running at once. I for one, as stated before, actually like where this is going.

 

Where do you think this is going though? Laurenitis taking over as COO next?

[DaMegaFish]

Where do you think this is going though? Laurenitis taking over as COO next?

 

I don't know/care. I'm just excited to watch it all play out.

 

I find that if I take what WWE is giving me right now, on a week to week, without trying to predict where they are going to be 1,3, or 6 months down the road, I enjoy it a lot more because everything "logical" doesn't get broken for me.

[juggaloninjalee]

I don't know/care. I'm just excited to watch it all play out.

 

I find that if I take what WWE is giving me right now, on a week to week, without trying to predict where they are going to be 1,3, or 6 months down the road, I enjoy it a lot more because everything "logical" doesn't get broken for me.

 

I usually agree with you. I just hated that ending to RAW though. It truly bored me to death. Everyone walked out on him and it took 20 minutes for that segment.

 

I can't really bash the whole storyline because it has had good moments but where it is right now I hate! The last few weeks of this have bored me.

 

We can agree to disagree on this but I didn't like it last night.

[bookerman]

The figurehead/COO/GM/laptop/Assistant Vice Commissioner in Charge of Wrestlers/etc storylines pull all of the attention away from the in-ring action and do nothing...NOTHING to enhance it. Take HHH out of the picture for a minute and think about how things went at HIAC. Instead of Miz/Truth being fired, they are barred from the PPV b/c of their previous actions. Same stuff goes down at the end of the PPV. Now on RAW, you open with ADR telling everyone that he is the one that let them into the building b/c he wanted some insurance and wanted Cena/Punk and everyone else to understand who was going to be top dogs going forward. This helps set up ADR/Miz/Truth vs Cena/Punk/Face #3 for Vengance. ADR gets ****y and say if his team loses then the winner gets a future title shot.

 

Instead they've sent a mixed message to fans and focused everything on HHH. Did Punk get to talk? What about Cena? The new champ is hanging around midcarders talking about a lawsuit. Are they even having Smackdown Friday since everyone walked out? (kidding) Is that just a "we don't like you, but we're still going to work here"vote? I feel more certain we'll see a Beth vs KellyKelly match at the PPV than I do of seeing any other match.

 

Since HHH showed up, Punk has been brought back down to earth with two straight PPV losses, ADR's title reign that was building for 8 months lasted 4 weeks, the title has changed hands way too often. HHH does not equal ratings/buyrates/etc

[Erock]

The figurehead/COO/GM/laptop/Assistant Vice Commissioner in Charge of Wrestlers/etc storylines pull all of the attention away from the in-ring action and do nothing...NOTHING to enhance it. Take HHH out of the picture for a minute and think about how things went at HIAC. Instead of Miz/Truth being fired, they are barred from the PPV b/c of their previous actions. Same stuff goes down at the end of the PPV. Now on RAW, you open with ADR telling everyone that he is the one that let them into the building b/c he wanted some insurance and wanted Cena/Punk and everyone else to understand who was going to be top dogs going forward. This helps set up ADR/Miz/Truth vs Cena/Punk/Face #3 for Vengance. ADR gets ****y and say if his team loses then the winner gets a future title shot.

 

You're looking more at where they are and less at where they're gonna be. And WWE has never claimed to be a great in-ring product. Having Triple H actually punish guys is better than it was before. It almost feels like he's in more control. Look form the eyes of HHH in the story.

 

Instead they've sent a mixed message to fans and focused everything on HHH. Did Punk get to talk? What about Cena? The new champ is hanging around midcarders talking about a lawsuit. Are they even having Smackdown Friday since everyone walked out? (kidding) Is that just a "we don't like you, but we're still going to work here"vote? I feel more certain we'll see a Beth vs KellyKelly match at the PPV than I do of seeing any other match.

 

Yes. Yes. Punk has gotten seemingly had just as much promo time as HHH for the Conspiracy/ Punk|HHH storyline. Also Ziggler, Rhodes, Swagger, and Christian are hardly midcard names, and Vickie is one of the better known managers currently.

 

Since HHH showed up, Punk has been brought back down to earth with two straight PPV losses, ADR's title reign that was building for 8 months lasted 4 weeks, the title has changed hands way too often. HHH does not equal ratings/buyrates/etc

 

People complain they focus too much on Cena, then compalin when its on ADR, and complain when it's taken off. And believe it or not, some people actually like the storyline, and HHH.

[jjohns44]

As hard to believe it may be to see Daniel Bryan beat Mark Henry at WM for the title, stranger things have happened...

[Tha Black Phenom]

The figurehead/COO/GM/laptop/Assistant Vice Commissioner in Charge of Wrestlers/etc storylines pull all of the attention away from the in-ring action and do nothing...NOTHING to enhance it.

 

lol come on, that's what this business has always been about. I'm not putting this on the same pedestal as the segment I'm gonna mention, but this is akin to the milk truck segment or any other iconic moment, it's just that.. a moment. Of course it does nothing to enhance in-ring action-- nay, it has nothing to do with it period!(yet) It did the job it was supposed to do, keep the momentum going with this long term angle.

 

Instead they've sent a mixed message to fans and focused everything on HHH. Did Punk get to talk? What about Cena? The new champ is hanging around midcarders talking about a lawsuit. Are they even having Smackdown Friday since everyone walked out? (kidding) Is that just a "we don't like you, but we're still going to work here"vote? I feel more certain we'll see a Beth vs KellyKelly match at the PPV than I do of seeing any other match.

 

The idea was likely that Punk/Cena/Orton are the top faces and seeing them walk out on HHH would've gotten them jeered as well and they wanted to protect them.

 

Since HHH showed up, Punk has been brought back down to earth with two straight PPV losses, ADR's title reign that was building for 8 months lasted 4 weeks, the title has changed hands way too often. HHH does not equal ratings/buyrates/etc

 

When HHH showed up, Punk was still hot ****. Punk was brought back down to earth when Del Rio won the championship. Because it was time for him to take a backseat. And even there, it's not that far a backseat as most of the midcarders endure, he's a legitimate top attraction. Boo hoo, he lost two PPV matches in a row-- the way I see it, he won against John Cena twice in a row. And he's selling merch on a satisfactory level. If I'm gonna keep interest in a program, I'll try to at least consider the positives.

[Tha Black Phenom]

No. They hotshotted Punk back and put him in the main event of Summerslam with Triple H and Cena and the buyrate fell 14% from last year. And that was when Punk still had momentum.

 

I'm not necessarily putting that on Punk, but it does clearly show that Punk's presence can't carry a PPV main event, even with Cena and Triple H involved. The idea of Punk headlining a PPV against ADR or The Miz right now is pretty crazy.

 

That's not indicative of everything. It's possible but pretty stretchy to draw to such a conclusion that way. The heat angles and storylines can under some circumstances vary, with Miz under the right timing and good amount of heat, it could pay off. You talk about them getting complacent with putting Cena/Orton in main-events, but you go and think of the same mindset. And when you have guys like *gasp!* Triple H putting himself on the scene to elevate other talent, things will take effect down the line.

 

 

Punk is in the title picture about as much as Morrison was in the title picture against Mark Henry last night. Punk got one half-assed defense of his title before they took it off of him and sent him on a run of getting pinned in every notable match he's had. He's got no momentum, no feuds, no promos, no notable wins lately, so even by WWE standards that's hard to say he's really in the title picture.

 

It's just my opinion but half-assed is seriously pushing it, along with weighing so much on the loss issues. Really doesn't seem like any of that took him off his status yet. Having his legitimate rematch clause on PPV and beating both other men in the match on separate occasions.. doesn't sound so much like a filler entrant to me.