The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[jjohns44]

Just thought I would mention this since people were talking about the "What?" chants last night, I did go to the show and I wasn't a part of the people saying what.

 

A fan behind me during the Taker, Triple H segment made a good point they said that half of todays WWE fans are too young to even know where the What chant came from. I couldn't agree more and it seems that people say what just to say it and they don't remember what wrestler started the whole thing.

True that! But good luck finding out HOW the what?! got started in the first place!

 

I remember Stone Cold came up with the What when he was trying to call Christian (personally, not in the ring or anything) and the phone had terrible reception and Stone Cold would keep saying 'WHAT?!'

[Prophet]

Just thought I would mention this since people were talking about the "What?" chants last night, I did go to the show and I wasn't a part of the people saying what.

 

A fan behind me during the Taker, Triple H segment made a good point they said that half of todays WWE fans are too young to even know where the What chant came from. I couldn't agree more and it seems that people say what just to say it and they don't remember what wrestler started the whole thing.

 

I have never liked the What chant. When Austin did it, or now, never enjoyed it. Irritates me.

 

And in a somewhat related note, I took my brother down to see FCW sometime last year, and there's a tradition there (not sure about the WWE, since I've never been to a big show) when the ring announcer enters the ring, every time the audience goes "Woo!" in a pervy Flair like manner. So we go to the event, and sitting next to me is a 9 year old kid, munching on some candy, excited to see wrestling. First time he hears the woo, second time he matches up why it's happening, and the third time, this 9 year old kid is wooing with everyone else, like a young pervy Ric Flair. To this day, not sure if it's creepy or awesome. lol

[Jaysin]

I believe the difference here and why people are making such a big deal about it is that throughout their careers guys like Cena, Sting, Flair, Angle, Hogan, Foley, and Jericho have all either had their moments of serious regret where they either said or did something to merit a disrespectful reaction. Or have burned out the audience by portraying the same character for so long without any sort of change that the audience is sick of it. In Taker's case however he has done nothing really to merit such a response. He makes sure to keep the character fresh in some way whenever he returns with it so he's not got that "we've seen this already" factor of Cena, Jericho, and Foley to a certain extent. He protects the character and makes sure whatever the situation that he's taken seriously unlike Sting, Flair, Hogan, and Foley. And he's never had a really embarrassing media moment for fans to tear apart like Angle, Hogan, and Flair all have.

 

What it comes down to is The Undertaker is one of the few wrestlers going these days who has earned every ounce of respect he gets and then some not only for his in ring work but also how he carries himself outside of the ring. That's where the crowd last night was completely in the wrong and just being idiots for the sake of being idiots, because unlike nearly anyone else you could name The Undertaker has earned truck loads of respect and he hasn't really done anything over his career to lose any of that respect.

 

How is Undertaker "keeping it fresh"?

 

He's been doing the same thing for years. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve respect. I'm saying that respect shouldn't make him impervious to negativity.

 

I respect Undertaker a lot. That heel run he had when he was basically commanding respect? That's one of my favorite storylines period. The last "new thing" he's done was add Hell's Gate to his move set and that was years ago.

 

Also, Shawn Michaels is a horrible example of someone who should be respected Phenom. You mentioned how Triple H's career is marred by the politics, but who was there to teach him all the political ways? HBK. They both held a lot of people down and put themselves and their friends over everyone else.

 

I love Shawn Michaels. I'm glad that he's become a better person, but if you're going to cite Triple H's past, then Michaels shouldn't be exempt.

[TakerNGN74]

True that! But good luck finding out HOW the what?! got started in the first place!

 

I remember Stone Cold came up with the What when he was trying to call Christian (personally, not in the ring or anything) and the phone had terrible reception and Stone Cold would keep saying 'WHAT?!'

 

Austin told the story on his "What?" dvd, he called Christian and got his voice mail and for some reason he said "I am passing a rest stop, What? I said a rest stop" and from there he started doing it. On the DVD Christian said that the whole message was about 10 minutes long.

[djthefunkchris]

I'm a Brown's fan, I should be throwing junk at you too

 

The USA chants only seem appropriate if it's ya know, meaningful. Like if the wrestler the American is facing is someone the USA is at odds with in real life, like Russia at one point, or Middle Eastern and the heel is playing up to that role.

 

I don't know, I think I'm going to always chant USA for Jim Duggan, no matter if all of his opponants are from the USA or somewhere else.

[ampulator]

I don't know, I think I'm going to always chant USA for Jim Duggan, no matter if all of his opponants are from the USA or somewhere else.

But it's Jim Duggan. In general, it's kind of stupid... especially stupid when there is no person from the United States in the ring. Happens more than it should.

[shawn michaels]

How is Undertaker "keeping it fresh"?

 

He's been doing the same thing for years. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve respect. I'm saying that respect shouldn't make him impervious to negativity.

 

I respect Undertaker a lot. That heel run he had when he was basically commanding respect? That's one of my favorite storylines period. The last "new thing" he's done was add Hell's Gate to his move set and that was years ago.

 

Also, Shawn Michaels is a horrible example of someone who should be respected Phenom. You mentioned how Triple H's career is marred by the politics, but who was there to teach him all the political ways? HBK. They both held a lot of people down and put themselves and their friends over everyone else.

 

I love Shawn Michaels. I'm glad that he's become a better person, but if you're going to cite Triple H's past, then Michaels shouldn't be exempt.

 

I couldn't actually agree more with you, to some extent. The great thing about Michaels is that althouh he has this past that isn't that great at all, (not only the politics, but the substance abuse, suicide atempt, etc) his work is so great that people really don't care that much about what he did or didn't do. He usually says he was never outperformed, and that's true. When a guy acomplishes that, he truly deserves some respect.

 

Taker's case is diferent. He has an exemplar behaviour, and has always managed to keep the mystique of his character flowing. Sometimes, that's enough.

 

Triple H...well, i like trips, but no matter how good he did, he will always be remembered for his behaviour, especially since he married "daddy's little princess". Enough said there.

[bigtplaystew]

It's funny that the whole big tagline to this year's HHH/Taker match is they are the last two guys from the attitude era. Yet the Rock is performing at the same show.

 

I wonder how Mark Henry feels about all this?

[Astil]

It's funny that the whole big tagline to this year's HHH/Taker match is they are the last two guys from the attitude era. Yet the Rock is performing at the same show.

 

I wonder how Mark Henry feels about all this?

 

Or Kane. Or Show. Kurt Angles twitter's going to get hacked again.

[20LEgend]

Why did they bring the Punk/Brown thing up? No need to. Now people are speculating it's a work, really can't see that.

 

Main Ecent saved a average at best show.

[Jaysin]

I just watched Punk's video aimed at Brown. I would love to see Punk destroy Brown. Not in the WWE, but in reality.

[bigtplaystew]

Part of me wants to be the progressive thinker and just look at Chris Brown with an attitude of "he was wrong, he screwed up, he admitted it, lets all just move on."

 

As a wrestling fan, it's kind of hypocritical to judge a performer on his or her personal life.

 

But he REALLY is a tool. CM Punk threw a barb at him. If he'd have risen above it and left it alone... there would be no issue. But then he had to throw childish (and terribly unfunny) insults back at Punk. It just reminds me of him trashing his dressing room on GMA and the dude probably deserves an ass beating.

 

That said, if Punk wants to go beat up men who abuse women, there's plenty of targets withing his own industry he could look into.

[BHK1978]

It's funny that the whole big tagline to this year's HHH/Taker match is they are the last two guys from the attitude era. Yet the Rock is performing at the same show.

 

I wonder how Mark Henry feels about all this?

 

Can add Kane in there as well.

 

I said the exact same thing to my father about how they were billing this as the last two guys from the Attitude Era. Then after a few minutes of explaining to my father what the Attitude Era was (He has been watching wrestling since the 1950's but stopped watching the WWF on a regular basis in 1993 or so and now only watches TNA.) I told him about all of the wrestlers left from said era.

 

In regards to speaking during the Undertaker's promo, I stand by what I say. If you buy the ticket you can yell out whenever you want to do so. Unless the First Amendment does not apply once you step into the arena...well I guess it does not because the WWE always takes away signs that they do not want shown on television.

[Tha Black Phenom]

How is Undertaker "keeping it fresh"?

 

He's been doing the same thing for years. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve respect. I'm saying that respect shouldn't make him impervious to negativity.

 

I respect Undertaker a lot. That heel run he had when he was basically commanding respect? That's one of my favorite storylines period. The last "new thing" he's done was add Hell's Gate to his move set and that was years ago.

 

Also, Shawn Michaels is a horrible example of someone who should be respected Phenom. You mentioned how Triple H's career is marred by the politics, but who was there to teach him all the political ways? HBK. They both held a lot of people down and put themselves and their friends over everyone else.

 

I love Shawn Michaels. I'm glad that he's become a better person, but if you're going to cite Triple H's past, then Michaels shouldn't be exempt.

 

Well, maybe I assumed too much and reside from that crowd of people who let such things go. I mean hell, most of us Canadians got over the HBK/Bret stuff, even long before Bret made amends with them. Coulda fooled me. /shrug

 

 

I wasn't exactly looking for a veteran off the top of my head with a clean career, HHH's case is more continuous and somewhat proportionally more controversial, but at least it's shaping up the point I wanted to make about Taker.

[alden]

I think the last two might have ment "mega stars" kane and henrey were not mega stars at the time. they did not "carry the company" like taker and hhh did.

[Nedew]

I'm pretty sure they're billing as the end of the pre-Attitude (it'd seem odd to call it New Generation, but y'know what i mean) era. 'Taker started wrestling in the 80s, and Triple H was on the Starrcade '94 card - these guys were around already, whereas the likes of Kane and Henry came a fair bit later on, more clearly Attitude stalwarts.

[dvdWarrior]

I'm pretty sure they're billing as the end of the pre-Attitude (it'd seem odd to call it New Generation, but y'know what i mean) era. 'Taker started wrestling in the 80s, and Triple H was on the Starrcade '94 card - these guys were around already, whereas the likes of Kane and Henry came a fair bit later on, more clearly Attitude stalwarts.

 

I just thought they were referring to wrestling's old-school, those 3 guys (HHH, HBK, and Taker), being the last of the guys who came up the old way, through the territories kinda - whereas almost all of today's stars came up through the indies or WWE's developmental system. Kane did that as well, (the old way), I believe, but I'm pretty sure Henry was a WWE product all the way.

[ThatChizzle]

yeah, Kane was around before the Attitude era, First he was Isaac Yankem DDS, then right after Scott Hall and Kevin Nash went to WCW, Kane was the Fake Diesel, before the nWo was formed (before Hulk Hogan turned to the Heel "Hollywood" Hogan.)

[Unregistered]

I know this is not going to happen, but I think it would be great if WWE used those chants and calls , and put them into one of Taker's videos. Hell, if they are putting Taker as the underdog, and being pushed so much like a old washed up dude, why not use the disrespect he got to his favor.

 

To be honest, the way they're doing the storyline, the reaction he got was justified. He's been made to look like a joke versus Triple H. There has never been a real mention of him winning last year. It's just constant talk about him getting beat down so bad. Trple H and Shawn have both basically insinuated Taker has no chance. Heck, Taker himself looks awful from what we've seen. The worst thing was, up until last night, Taker himself was only bringing up the fact that he had gotten so badly beat. And I still don't remember him bringing up his win.

 

I heard it said recently and it explains why I'm just so annoyed by the whole storyline, how is Undertaker going in 19-0 and yet he's still the underdog?

 

As far as I'm concerned, if their going to try and make him into the Rocky Balboa type, they might as well use everything they can. Those chants are something that were gifted to them. I would never have expected that in a million years, but now that it's happened, hell yeah. Use that shit.

[bigtplaystew]

Undertaker's promo work hasn't really ever been that great. But considering you get maybe 10 of them a year at this point, and considering that he still puts on great matches (once a year), I feel the man deserves respect from the sport's fans.

 

That said, I never blame the crowd for booing or losing interest. If your crowd isn't pleased, it''s YOUR fault. Not theirs.

 

I have problems with Joe Rogan when it comes to this issue. Many times he's made comments as if the fans are somehow "not educated" or something when they boo a hugging contest in MMA. The fans dont have to be "educated" they need to be entertained.

 

The same stands here. The fans should respect Undertaker. But when the guy comes out, takes ten minutes to get to the ring, and drones on about the same dumb crap we've seen in the vignettes... part of me understands some negative crowd reactions.

 

We must consider though, by the time the segment was over with the fans were pretty pumped up and into it. So all in all, HHH and Taker did get it done.

[Linsolv]

Part of me wants to be the progressive thinker and just look at Chris Brown with an attitude of "he was wrong, he screwed up, he admitted it, lets all just move on."

 

I'd say he's payed his dues when he doesn't have millions of female fans who don't care that he put his girlfriend in the hospital.

[juggaloninjalee]

I think the last two might have ment "mega stars" kane and henrey were not mega stars at the time. they did not "carry the company" like taker and hhh did.

 

HHH didn't carry the WWE ever. Austin and Rock did during the Attitude Era. Then after the Attitude Era I'd say HHH was 1 of a few guys to "carry" the company during a ratings decline period. This is why they went PG because they were not making as much money due to ratings so they explored other avenues.

 

I'm pretty sure they're billing as the end of the pre-Attitude (it'd seem odd to call it New Generation, but y'know what i mean) era. 'Taker started wrestling in the 80s, and Triple H was on the Starrcade '94 card - these guys were around already, whereas the likes of Kane and Henry came a fair bit later on, more clearly Attitude stalwarts.

 

Again Jericho, and Kane are pre Attitude Era guys too.

 

Undertaker has been using the same character for 10 years and only added a submission since then.

[shawn michaels]

Only HHH would have the "gift" to feud with Taker and make him look as the underdog. Hunter had no business going for a second match. Hell, taker vs. new masked Kane would be better and way more bankable. But no...Hunter freakin Helmsley has to put his nose on everything. Even when he's not winning championships, the guys still manages to hug all the spotlight! Damn him, i say! I'm begining to wonder who in their right minds puts taker in 2 matches with HBK on a row, knowing that Taker has to defend the streak afterwards, contrary to Shawn, that retires big time. It's pretty unfair. Calaway will never top what he did with Michaels again and i'm wondering if he souldn't have retired back then too. If only his opponent wasn't HHH...

[juggaloninjalee]

From what I remember half the people who saw Mania loved the HHH vs Taker match last year. The other half thought it was over rated and just a finisher fest. Personally I thought it was very entertaining but I dunno. I am not a HHH or Taker fan really and I do find Undertaker a bit over rated. I also think HHH is a bit under rated. I am trying to take it for what it is but I'd like to see a younger guy push Taker to his limits. So it wouldn't damage Taker but would elevate the younger guy.

[shawn michaels]

From what I remember half the people who saw Mania loved the HHH vs Taker match last year. The other half thought it was over rated and just a finisher fest. Personally I thought it was very entertaining but I dunno. I am not a HHH or Taker fan really and I do find Undertaker a bit over rated. I also think HHH is a bit under rated. I am trying to take it for what it is but I'd like to see a younger guy push Taker to his limits. So it wouldn't damage Taker but would elevate the younger guy.

 

That actually says it all. One match had mixed reviews from the "buyers" (us), so they should have sticked by that. Doing a 2nd is absurd. I'm with you on the younger guy thing. Having a Taker vs. Daniel Bryan would be much more entertaining for me, and much better when it comes to actuall in ring work. Just an example.