The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[djthefunkchris]

Brock will be back in wrestling.

[Fantabulous]

Brock went about it horribly though. See: Goldberg vs. Brock.

 

That match was in no way as bad as history has rewritten it. People had already decided they were going to crap all over the match and both guys, because they knew it was the last night for them both and they'd committed the cardinal sin and dared to leave. It wasn't a great match by any means, but history has it written down as one of the worst matches of all time when that's just not true. It was a decent match that happened to suffer from being probably the most rejected match of all time. They could have had a classic for the ages and that crowd would have farted all over it.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I have been a wrestling fan, since I was 4 in 1985, and for different reasons I respect ALL wrestlers.

But, The Rock is the only one that left wrestling for Hollywood, and I'm happy for him. At the same time, I think that Dwayne Johnson is a sell-out due to him turning his back on his Wrestling fans. So I have to agree with everything that John Cena is saying about The Rock. I haven't liked Cena's gimmick for a while, but they are fixing parts of Cena, and I'm def. liking where its going. And for the people who chant "Cena Sucks", it reminds me when Rocky Maivia first started.

Rocky Maivia used to be a babyface wearing his little feathery attire, smiling at the crowd, and after a while, everyone started hating him. It's the same thing thats going on with John Cena. At least the crowd only chants "Cena Sucks", lol the crowd used to chant "Die Rocky Die" and carry in signs of the same type. So at least Cena hasen't been hated as much as the Rock was.

Vince McMahon gave The Rock the microphone and let him speak his mind, and the crowd warmed back up to him. That is what they need to do to Cena. Quit having Cena doing PG, and reading scripts, and let him work his own promos.

 

Umm.. they have been letting Cena work his own promos. For years. When Orton stepped up and talked against The Rock, he said just that. Cena has been ad-libbing for years, most of what you see is from him. And I find the "Cena Sucks" comparison with Rocky Maivia to be a bit trite - the latter was only a matter of weeks/months, and on a much smaller scale. The Cena Sucks thing has been going on for years, and there's next to nothing that's changed it. They've had Cena go up against guys like Kevin Federline and unlikeable heels like Khali to get the fans to cheer him again, which they do.. once that's over with it's right back to the booing. Only now could there possibly be a shift in balance, but it's been more or less heavy on Cena's side. Though to note overall, I see what you mean when you make the comparison.

 

I can't see any benefit with Rocky jobbing to Cena.

 

The crowd will hate it (and I can't think of anything worse for the 'E than the crowd furiously booing the result of the main event of your biggest event of the year), it won't win over anyone that already hates Cena, and by giving Cena the win right out of the gate, you put a big dent in any benefits to bringing the Rock back later on if the rumours of him being booked for more matches in the future are true.

 

If I'm booking it, Rock wins clean in Miami, Cena suffers a huge crisis of confidence as a result - you can then spend the next year building him back up, perhaps with a feud against a heel who's good at the psychological side of things and can work that angle via promos (Jericho, perhaps?), culminating in a return match at the next 'Mania, where Cena avenges the loss. After that, I'd probably leave it at 1-1 - I can't see any advantage to dragging the feud out any longer. If Rocky's booked for another match after that, give him a 'loser retires' match against HHH.

 

There's a few things to be re-checked here. First, the crowd will hate it? Do you remember where the show is being held? It's Rock's hometown. I think the rest goes without saying.

 

Two, you're giving way too much importance to the result. I think a lot of people do, and it leads them astray. There's not gonna be any "big dent" in anything. And I don't think it thoroughly matters who gets or doesn't get won over. If Cena wins.. Cena wins. Rock isn't gonna look any worse than he does. He can still return mere months later and look like King S**t. Because it's Cena we're talking about, not Kofi Kingston. If Rock wins, a lot of people are gonna go home happy, that's it. In fact, it might really be 50/50 depending on what Rock's stance will be during this culminating angle.

[juggaloninjalee]

Umm.. they have been letting Cena work his own promos. For years. When Orton stepped up and talked against The Rock, he said just that. Cena has been ad-libbing for years, most of what you see is from him. And I find the "Cena Sucks" comparison with Rocky Maivia to be a bit trite - the latter was only a matter of weeks/months, and on a much smaller scale. The Cena Sucks thing has been going on for years, and there's next to nothing that's changed it. They've had Cena go up against guys like Kevin Federline and unlikeable heels like Khali to get the fans to cheer him again, which they do.. once that's over with it's right back to the booing. Only now could there possibly be a shift in balance, but it's been more or less heavy on Cena's side. Though to note overall, I see what you mean when you make the comparison.

 

 

 

There's a few things to be re-checked here. First, the crowd will hate it? Do you remember where the show is being held? It's Rock's hometown. I think the rest goes without saying.

 

Two, you're giving way too much importance to the result. I think a lot of people do, and it leads them astray. There's not gonna be any "big dent" in anything. And I don't think it thoroughly matters who gets or doesn't get won over. If Cena wins.. Cena wins. Rock isn't gonna look any worse than he does. He can still return mere months later and look like King S**t. Because it's Cena we're talking about, not Kofi Kingston. If Rock wins, a lot of people are gonna go home happy, that's it. In fact, it might really be 50/50 depending on what Rock's stance will be during this culminating angle.

 

A loss for either guy won't matter. If Cena loses to the Rock then he lost to a guy who came in 100% and was one of the most over wrestlers of all time. If Rock loses to Cena it's because he was rusty. Both guys have a cop out and can demand a rematch basically.

 

A win for either won't elevate them and a loss for either won't bring them down either. It's a wash. This match is about making money and I think they will make more than on any other Wrestlemania.

 

Personally I want Rock to win. I think he might win too. I could see it going either way really.

[Guest codey]

That match was in no way as bad as history has rewritten it. People had already decided they were going to crap all over the match and both guys, because they knew it was the last night for them both and they'd committed the cardinal sin and dared to leave. It wasn't a great match by any means, but history has it written down as one of the worst matches of all time when that's just not true. It was a decent match that happened to suffer from being probably the most rejected match of all time. They could have had a classic for the ages and that crowd would have farted all over it.

 

History has painted Goldberg as being terrible in general, which he wasnt. He wasn't great by any means, but he was able to work well, his moves looked extremely effective, and he could easily get the crowd on his side. But because he accidentally ended Brett Hart's career, everyone craps on him.

[The Final Countdown]

Both of those example's are pretty bad, to be honest. Piper actually has been making a living in films/tv since he retired, and didn't really get into them til after he was bassically done in the ring (outside of nostalgia events).

 

Hogan never wanted to be a movie star, always used it for his Wrestling popularity. He only did Rocky III because he had made a promise BEFORE Vince tried to get him under contract. He has only done like 14 movies, and half of them had to do with wrestling, and most was during the 90's, when he was still going strong... still showing up for wrestling.

The way I understood it, Piper's match at Wrestlemania 3 was supposed to be his last, as he was going to give it a shot in Hollywood. Ditto for Hogan at Wrestlemania 6. But neither one of them exactly made it happen, at least not anywhere near the level Rock has.

 

Maybe I'm misinformed, I don't know. But regardless, I think if Hogan had been given the opportunity to be a Rock-level star in Hollywood, he would have taken it in a heartbeat, and stepped away from the WWF just as Rock did. He stuck around/kept coming back because he could make more money in wrestling.

[shawn michaels]

The way I understood it, Piper's match at Wrestlemania 3 was supposed to be his last, as he was going to give it a shot in Hollywood. Ditto for Hogan at Wrestlemania 6. But neither one of them exactly made it happen, at least not anywhere near the level Rock has.

 

Maybe I'm misinformed, I don't know. But regardless, I think if Hogan had been given the opportunity to be a Rock-level star in Hollywood, he would have taken it in a heartbeat, and stepped away from the WWF just as Rock did. He stuck around/kept coming back because he could make more money in wrestling.

 

Exactly. Never would Hogan refuse a Hollywood carreer. He only remained with wrestling cause eventually his movie career bombed and the money to be made was in wrestling. And for those saying that Dwayne isn't the only one capable of doing it: yes he is! He is the first wrestler EVER to become a successfull movie star. And probably the only one for many years to come. It's not easy, if it was, many others would follow that path.

[Target Practice]

Unless I dreamed it, didn't Mr Cena himself have a spate of movies a few years back? Whilst I don't recall any of them quite reaching the cinematic heights (or depths, if sarcasm isn't your thang) of Mr Nanny, I'm sure at least one of them made it to cinematic release.

[Fantabulous]

As the joke goes, Cena's movies weren't released, they escaped. Hogan bombed as a movie star, atomic style.

[Jaysin]

Unless I dreamed it, didn't Mr Cena himself have a spate of movies a few years back? Whilst I don't recall any of them quite reaching the cinematic heights (or depths, if sarcasm isn't your thang) of Mr Nanny, I'm sure at least one of them made it to cinematic release.

 

That he did, but Cena is a wrestler before he's an actor and hasn't turned his back on WWE or wrestling in general. If anything he's been the hardest working man in wrestling for years.

[Target Practice]

Heh. I still have a copy of The Marine on DVD sat on my shelf, still in the shrinkwrap. My brother got it for me as a 'joke' christmas present. I got him a book on the history of the mullet, so I think we were even that year.

 

Still, at least one good thing came of that film - when my daughter comes home from school one day and asks "daddy, what's an abortion?" I'll be able to stick the disc in and let her see for herself.

[Jaysin]

I didn't think the Marine was that bad at all. It was a fairly entertaining action flick.

[Target Practice]

To be completely fair, I've never even seen it - I'm simply extrapolating from previous films starring still-active wrestlers. I just wanted to use that joke.

[shawn michaels]

Heh. I still have a copy of The Marine on DVD sat on my shelf, still in the shrinkwrap. My brother got it for me as a 'joke' christmas present. I got him a book on the history of the mullet, so I think we were even that year.

 

Still, at least one good thing came of that film - when my daughter comes home from school one day and asks "daddy, what's an abortion?" I'll be able to stick the disc in and let her see for herself.

 

It's not a joke, it's actually perfect. Show it to her and she will see what an abortion really is. Cause that film sucks big time!

[bigtplaystew]

I'm being 100% dead serious here, no joke.

 

It's easy to be like "ughh... Cena sucks... Hogan sucks... ugghh..." like every other moron who knows nothing.

 

But let's look at this realistically. ALL of John Cenas films have drawn a profit. This is fact. Look it up. LITERALLY SPEAKING... he is a bankable movie star. Is he better than the Rock? Nope. But he's made money int he last ten years. More than some hollywood mainstays can say.

 

Hogan made terrible terrible films. Can't think of one good one off the top of my head. However, int he late 80s/early 90s... the man was a household name to a peak that I haven't seen since.

 

Neither John Cena NOR Hulk Hogan are failures in my opinion.

[Target Practice]

But I think that's where the distinction lies between Rock and Cena/Hogan - the other guys went out there and made bad movies that turned a (I'm guessing here, but I imagine I'm not too far off the mark) small to modest profit.

The Rock has gone out there and made (mostly - we don't talk about the Doom movie, because I tend to black out and people get hurt) good movies that have turned huge profits.

 

Hogan probably gets a bit of an exemption, because he was (and still is) a household name even before the movie career. Ask your grandparents who Hulk Hogan is, and they'll tell you he's a wrestler (and if you're from the UK, they'll probably add that he wasn't as good as Giant Haystacks) - ask them who The Rock is, and they're probably not going to know. No-one will EVER be as big as Hogan was in the very early 90s.

Unfortunately for him, it just so happened that the movies he was in were the cinematic equivalent of a Great Khali promo - it was just plain bad luck he happened to be around at a time when family movies were at their most loathesome.

 

On the other hand, you would struggle to argue that Rocky isn't a considerably better 'natural' for film than Hogan. He's got a natural charisma that some folks are lucky enough to be born with, whereas others are just cursed to be Randy Orton. Also, without getting too homoerotic, he's also pretty darn easy on the eyes, which never hurts your chances in Hollywood.

 

I guess we'll only really find out in the long term, but right now, I'd say Rocky has a much better shot at having a lasting Hollywood career than Hulkster or anyone else.

 

 

 

...man, we've ended up on one hell of a tangent here.

[shawn michaels]

But I think that's where the distinction lies between Rock and Cena/Hogan - the other guys went out there and made bad movies that turned a (I'm guessing here, but I imagine I'm not too far off the mark) small to modest profit.

The Rock has gone out there and made (mostly - we don't talk about the Doom movie, because I tend to black out and people get hurt) good movies that have turned huge profits.

 

Hogan probably gets a bit of an exemption, because he was (and still is) a household name even before the movie career. Ask your grandparents who Hulk Hogan is, and they'll tell you he's a wrestler (and if you're from the UK, they'll probably add that he wasn't as good as Giant Haystacks) - ask them who The Rock is, and they're probably not going to know. No-one will EVER be as big as Hogan was in the very early 90s.

Unfortunately for him, it just so happened that the movies he was in were the cinematic equivalent of a Great Khali promo - it was just plain bad luck he happened to be around at a time when family movies were at their most loathesome.

 

On the other hand, you would struggle to argue that Rocky isn't a considerably better 'natural' for film than Hogan. He's got a natural charisma that some folks are lucky enough to be born with, whereas others are just cursed to be Randy Orton. Also, without getting too homoerotic, he's also pretty darn easy on the eyes, which never hurts your chances in Hollywood.

 

I guess we'll only really find out in the long term, but right now, I'd say Rocky has a much better shot at having a lasting Hollywood career than Hulkster or anyone else.

 

...man, we've ended up on one hell of a tangent here.

 

Doom movie?

[Target Practice]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0419706/

 

Now let us never speak of it again.

[shawn michaels]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0419706/

 

Now let us never speak of it again.

 

OOhh! That one. Mega LOL.

[lazorbeak]

History has painted Goldberg as being terrible in general, which he wasnt. He wasn't great by any means, but he was able to work well, his moves looked extremely effective, and he could easily get the crowd on his side. But because he accidentally ended Brett Hart's career, everyone craps on him.

 

Yeah that might be going too far to the other side. He certainly wasn't terrible, but he was extremely stiff, couldn't sell or tell more than one story in the ring, and his inability to talk really hurt once the streak was done.

 

As far as movie stuff goes, I think Cena does have some potential, and if he wanted to be an actor I'm sure he could get work as Mark Wahlberg's steroided out brother or something, but for now he'd rather work as a wrestler so all we've seen of his acting has been in third rate WWE-produced stuff. And Hogan is absolutely a failed actor: he was one of the biggest wrestlers in the world at the height of its popularity (twice!) and still ended up getting parts in stuff like Three Ninjas: High Noon at Mega Mountain. Granted at least some of that was that he was so typecast as "that big blonde wrestler" that it was hard to take him seriously in Predator or whatever, but he's definitely a "failed actor." He made a real push to focus on his acting career in the mid-90's, and it absolutely did not work.

[Linsolv]

I didn't think the Marine was that bad at all. It was a fairly entertaining action flick.

 

QFT.

 

It was plain, but it actually played really well to Cena's strengths as a character actor. He was essentially the "serious" Cena everyone likes throughout the whole film.

[Moe Hunter]

Edit: Did Bobby Laslhey really left the E becasue of racist friction with creative, specifically Michael Hayes? I mean...how would Vince allow that? I thought he wanted to push Lashley to the moon!

 

Mark Henry has had run-ins with Michael Hayes, but nothing with any consequences.

 

Bobby Lashley left the WWE because his wife Kristal Lashley (nee Marshall) was originally going to play Edge's girlfriend and Smackdown GM - remember how leading up to her departure she was scheming her way towards taking Vickie Guerrero's job?

 

Basically Kristal didn't want to do it, and Bobby got all hot about them suggesting his wife make out with another superstar, so they both left. And, as we all know, Vickie ended up keeping the GM role and becoming Edge's love interest.

[ScottMulhern]

Both of those example's are pretty bad, to be honest. Piper actually has been making a living in films/tv since he retired, and didn't really get into them til after he was bassically done in the ring (outside of nostalgia events).

 

Hogan never wanted to be a movie star, always used it for his Wrestling popularity. He only did Rocky III because he had made a promise BEFORE Vince tried to get him under contract. He has only done like 14 movies, and half of them had to do with wrestling, and most was during the 90's, when he was still going strong... still showing up for wrestling.

 

Actually, you could probably compare Hogan's movie career to that of John Cena, as neither ever left while making movies. I doubt either of them ever would have no matter how big the movie would have been.

 

I don't get where people think that just because one person took one route, that the only reason someone else didn't go that route was because they "couldn't"... In one way I agree, they couldn't because their heart was somewhere else... but to say Hulk Hogan couldn't have been in some of the big box office smash's that come out during his most popular days, is lacking any knowledge of other reasons he might not have done it... The number one reason he done bassically only cameo bits, was because he didn't want to spend any more time on them then that... as he didn't want to miss too much of his wrestling carreer going on at the time...

 

The difference is The Rock took that road that many could have took before him, not because ONLY The Rock could do it. The Rock certainly could be the most successfull of the example's, as he's a much better actor. However, it doesn't mean they "Couldn't" have done it. It's what they chose to do as opposed to what he chose to do.

 

Cameo bits? You know brother... I'm not sure that Surburban Commando, No Holds Barred and Mr. Nanny were just cameo bits... brother? He tried to make it as an actor big time in the early ninties and failed... dude. I noticed watching TNA recently that the man still can't act... brother.

 

He can't pull off any other character than Hulk Hogan, heel or face. Actor or wrestler.

[BurningHamster]

Just because a movie turns a profit doesn't mean it's good.

 

I'll go back to being a disgruntled film grad who seems to exclusively like commercial failures now.

[Wrestling Century]

That match was in no way as bad as history has rewritten it. People had already decided they were going to crap all over the match and both guys, because they knew it was the last night for them both and they'd committed the cardinal sin and dared to leave. It wasn't a great match by any means, but history has it written down as one of the worst matches of all time when that's just not true. It was a decent match that happened to suffer from being probably the most rejected match of all time. They could have had a classic for the ages and that crowd would have farted all over it.

 

That's not true at all. Yes, the crowd crapped all over them before the bell to start even rang. But I have WMXX on DVD, and I've watched the entire show multiple times. That was a horrible match. History didn't rewrite it to be horrible. It was IMO the worst WM match of all time (at least the worst that actually had some build up behind it). It was nothing more than a 10 minute lock up and a Jackhammer at the end.