The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[bigtplaystew]

I think the thing with tag teams it its easier to push them from the bottom of the card to the middle. GENERALLY SPEAKING OF COURSE, all they really have to do to get over is win as tag team matches tend to be more exciting (especially to the live crowd). A hot tag team at least gets a mild reaction from the crowd.

 

The issue is that its damn near impossible for a tag team to be a main event draw in North America. So they inherently have to split them up at some point, which sees one guy go over the other, which sees one guy hit stardom and the other got... well... you know how that goes.

[Remianen]

I don't get all the Michael Cole hate. I like him, i think he performs well when he doesn't try to go over-the-top. Not the best announcer ever, but pretty decent. Also, i like King as a colour, someone was saying he was awful a few days ago, don't think so, i just think he lacks chemistry with cole. Like the one he had with JR. Boy, those two were an amazing pair.

 

I despise Michael Cole but I've learned how to tune him out completely. King is just a caricature (of himself from the late 90s). The fact that he's been married more than a polygamist is such a sad running joke, I'm almost embarrassed whenever I hear reference to it (which always happens during diva segments).

 

But you don't pay them the same. The New Age Outlaws moved merchandise at an incredible rate during the attitude era but were never paid individually like Austin or Rock.

 

NAO never got as over as people were referring to. codey's point is absolutely true but it happens so rarely nowadays as to me a non-issue. Back in the old days, when a tag team could be the biggest stars on the roster, that might've been a concern. But nowadays, tag teams stop at the midcard so there's no chance of them getting over enough to make their prices prohibitive.

 

That theory doesn't really make sense. I think that they just don't know how to write tag team fueds/book tag teams. I don't remember seeing one Hart Dynasty, Air Boom, Morrison & Miz or Cryme Tyme t-shirt. As a matter of fact, I don't remember any piece of merchandise for those teams.

 

Then you weren't looking. Air Boom wore their merch to the ring, many times. Cryme Tyme, are you serious? They had a couple of different t-shirts. The one I've seen is black and has the name in the center with 'Yo Yo' and 'Yo Yo' running diagonally across the top corner (top of the pec, when worn). I don't even LIKE WWE (though I have a neighbor who does) and I know this stuff. Look at what the teams wear to the ring. Many times, that's the exact same merch available for said team (main reason they're wearing it).

 

Here, lemme show you what Google just showed me:

 

Air Boom: http://www.wweshop.com/item/air-boom-non-stop-flight-t-shirt/Men/01-15499

 

Cryme Tyme action figures: http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_itemId=320262466258&_nkw=CRYME%20TYME%20WWE%20Wrestling%20T%20shirt%20SMALL

 

Cryme Tyme t-shirt: http://wrestlingsuperstore.com/wweofficialeddieguerrerovivalarazadvdcovertshirt-1-1-3.aspx

 

Hart Dynasty t-shirt (no longer available but as you can see, it existed): http://www.wweshop.com/product_detail.asp?productid=01-12037&cat=HartDynasty (Here is that shirt: http://www.dhgate.com/wwf-sd-hart-dynasty-thicker-than-water-t/p-ff80808129d93e870129e480a5f65bf0.html )

 

Another Hart Dynasty t-shirt: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Better-Than-Best-HART-DYNASTY-WWE-T-shirt-Bret-/230510726331#ht_1381wt_905

 

WrestlingCentury, let me clue you in on something. In WWE, if you see them on TV regularly, they probably have merchandise. If they don't but the fans take a liking to them, they'll have it eventually (Dean Ambrose, for example).

 

Yeah, WWE doesn't really support or promote tag team wrestling. But damn if they don't promote merchandise for the teams they don't support or promote.

 

The issue is that its damn near impossible for a tag team to be a main event draw in North America. So they inherently have to split them up at some point, which sees one guy go over the other, which sees one guy hit stardom and the other got... well... you know how that goes.

 

Chicken & egg. As far as I can recall, outside of the Road Warriors, no tag team has been promoted as or pushed to be a main event draw (at least no tag team that wasn't already main eventing individually, i.e. DX). The closest we've gotten to it was the whole Hardyz/Dudleyz/Edge & Christian period but though they stole the show, they weren't the feature attraction (i.e. main event). Someone correct me if I'm wrong here. I don't remember any of those matches being the last match on the (televised) PPV? There was a time when people said it would be 'damn near impossible' for a non-big man to be a main event draw in WWF but that was dispelled when WWF decided to change that "fact".

[juggaloninjalee]

There are several legitimate reasons why WWE wouldn't tag teams. First, tag team success doesn't always translate into singles success. Second, tag teams take away time needed for singles. WWE has enough problems promoting singles as it is. Imagine them promoting tag teams. It would be a huge mess.

 

That being said, I always thought tag teams actually worked better under companies like the WWE, provided they were willing to put in the time to do them. I just don't think they are willing to give the resources, though.

 

Like I said before, they don't want to divert time from singles to tag. Yes, you are correct that those tags can help singles in the long run. But WWE isn't exactly looking to be creative about it. They have a tendency, until recently, to keep trying the same thing over and over and expecting a better result. Plus, WWE has never put much stock into tag teams, even when it helps to do so.

 

I disagree with your time aspect. WWE just doesn't see a need for them other than filler for guys to have something to do without being in a major program with someone.

 

Look back at 80 and 90s WWF. They had less tv time and had many more established tag teams. It was great! They kept them apart except for occasionally teaming 2 singles guys so someone new could run with the World Title. Like when HBK and Austin were tag team champions. I believe it was so Bret could face new people for a few months. They did this a few times in history though.

 

Personally there is plenty of air time they could use to push tag teams and it wouldn't interfere with the singles pushes. WWE has more top tier singles guys now but that is because that is all they WANT to push these last few years.

[LoNdOn]

Are we not going to address the fact that Paul Heyman was on RAW?

 

I almost fell off my chair.

[JackKnifed72]

Are we not going to address the fact that Paul Heyman was on RAW?

 

I almost fell off my chair.

 

 

Finally, I thought I was the only one who marked out

[Makhai]

Finally, I thought I was the only one who marked out

 

As a follower of MMA, this didn't surprise me at all. Heyman was Lesnar's media liaison in MMA. Did multiple MMA Hours, etc. They're making some pretty interesting MMA crossover references with Lesnar's story-arc. Even with Heyman's standing in the WWE backroom this made the most sense if they want to cool Lesnar's storyline until after Over the Limit. Which seems to be the way they are going.

[Zeel1]

Yeah, I was wondering why no one was talking about that...

[alden]

jerry lawler straight edge ?

 

http://rajah.com/base/node/27306

[ampulator]

I disagree with your time aspect. WWE just doesn't see a need for them other than filler for guys to have something to do without being in a major program with someone.

 

Look back at 80 and 90s WWF. They had less tv time and had many more established tag teams. It was great! They kept them apart except for occasionally teaming 2 singles guys so someone new could run with the World Title. Like when HBK and Austin were tag team champions. I believe it was so Bret could face new people for a few months. They did this a few times in history though.

 

Personally there is plenty of air time they could use to push tag teams and it wouldn't interfere with the singles pushes. WWE has more top tier singles guys now but that is because that is all they WANT to push these last few years.

You are misunderstanding me. I am riight about the time aspect. You are just don't know what time period I'm talking about. Original Wrestling, the LEGIT wrestling, there were no tag teams. It was one-on-one competition. Tag teams are the exception, not the norm, of wrestling. Do I want them? Hell yes, you bet I do. Do I think WWE should have them and promote them? Hell, yes, you bet I do.

 

But in the originalist view, tag teams didn't come first- it was mostly one-on-one back in the Old School Days, way before the 80's and 70's. Like everything else, Tag Teams are diversion from what wrestling really is. A wonderful diversion, but a diversion nonetheless.

[juggaloninjalee]

You are misunderstanding me. I am riight about the time aspect. You are just don't know what time period I'm talking about. Original Wrestling, the LEGIT wrestling, there were no tag teams. It was one-on-one competition. Tag teams are the exception, not the norm, of wrestling. Do I want them? Hell yes, you bet I do. Do I think WWE should have them and promote them? Hell, yes, you bet I do.

 

But in the originalist view, tag teams didn't come first- it was mostly one-on-one back in the Old School Days, way before the 80's and 70's. Like everything else, Tag Teams are diversion from what wrestling really is. A wonderful diversion, but a diversion nonetheless.

 

I thought you were saying WWE doesn't have time on their programming right now for tag teams. That to me was really what my comment was about. They had great tag teams when they only had about 2 hours of tv a week. Now they have 2 hours for RAW, 2 hours for SD, and also their online stuff such as NXT.

[ampulator]

Oh, they don't, but they can darn sure give more time to them. That being said, it will take them a LOT of time to get into the groove of making quality tag teams, an endeavor that might take them years, maybe even a decade, to do to a level that even the WWE once had. I'm not sure they have the patience.

 

I always thought WWE had tag teams because "the other guys were doing it." Not because they actually liked them. You know, they couldn't let their competitors have something they didn't have.

[djthefunkchris]

I agree, though I think the point is that tag teams should be made with people that are either not marketable as top singles stars or just isn't there yet - so it's not like they'll be sacrificing two main eventers worth of merchandise in exchange for one tag team's worth of merchandise; they'll be trading in two midcarders for a main event tag team, in most cases. Which, in my book, would definately be worth it.

 

Many tag teams consists of individuals who would simply not be worth much if not for the tag team (such as The Road Warriors) - while others have one worker with huge potential who just isn't ready for the singles push yet (Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, etc). Why not strap them with matching gimmicks and attires and see where that takes them?

I don't think they shy away as much as people think... outside of the fact that teams are never forever for them.

 

I think the goal is to get all people that can sell a PPV, make people watch the show, etc... not that a tag team can't do that... but what I mean is that I believe they want their roster full of potential main event material. People that can move up and down the card at will, while the other's dip in and out (turnover). The one's that shine get to stay, the one's that don't will be gone unless they are providing a benefit that is needed.

 

Tag teams are just for fun, to them I think.

 

You would think with as many workers as they have they would be more inclined to use tag teams to get people exposure, and let them work. They could at least put people together for a while to see who the better worker is, and see what the fans think of each person, once they have established those things, just break them up like the normally do and push the better worker in singles.

That's what they do though, outside of throwing some mainstays together to help with that (have someone for them to go against).

I thought you were saying WWE doesn't have time on their programming right now for tag teams. That to me was really what my comment was about. They had great tag teams when they only had about 2 hours of tv a week. Now they have 2 hours for RAW, 2 hours for SD, and also their online stuff such as NXT.

I think the tag teams are highlighted more on Superstars and other "B" or Net shows.

Oh, they don't, but they can darn sure give more time to them. That being said, it will take them a LOT of time to get into the groove of making quality tag teams, an endeavor that might take them years, maybe even a decade, to do to a level that even the WWE once had. I'm not sure they have the patience.

 

I always thought WWE had tag teams because "the other guys were doing it." Not because they actually liked them. You know, they couldn't let their competitors have something they didn't have.

/nod. I don't see anything happening as fast as people want. Fact is, if they decided that's what they wanted last year, they might not get around to starting it till late this year, and then it takes time to create the interest a quality tag division would require... meaning it won't be next year or the year after.

 

You can't just throw people on Raw (for example) that MOST people aren't interested in, basically. You have to bring them in slowly, so you don't run fans away.... Unless of course, you use all your top talent to start it off.

[ampulator]

When was the last time they have a great tag team that was mostly tag team? The New Age Outlaws. It's been a long time since then... a decade or more? It just happened to two tag team undercarders worked better with each other much better than anyone thought they would. And they were allowed to grow as tag team, adding onto to that. That took them at least a couple of years. Their chemistry isn't exactly easy to find either. You probably have to accidentally happen onto it.

[Rone Rivendale]

I would argue that Miz and Morrison were that sort of team, and they were much more recent than NAO.

[Jaysin]

Does anyone know if they actually made physical copies of this poster?

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4c/WCWstarrcade1997poster.JPG

[ampulator]

I would argue that Miz and Morrison were that sort of team, and they were much more recent than NAO.

But there's a problem with that - they were treated as single stars that worked well together, rather than as a tag team first. When the WWE saw the potential to break them up, they did so right away. The break up with NAO coincided around the time DX was breaking up.

 

Besides, Morrison always had weird gaps in his skillset. The guy reminds me of a less Spotty Jeff Hardy, with more charisma, better psychology, better selling, less flashiness. But his... matches always looked a bit "off". His "Foundation", so to speak, was very rough. Serviceable, but rough. I'm not smashing on the guy, but I always thought his matches could be great... or they could be weird and off. Not bad, just weird and off.

[moon_lit_tears]

Do you remember the year?

[Jaysin]

Do you remember the year?

 

If that's aimed at me, it's the poster for Starrcade 1997.

[milamber]

For all the talk of WWE's tag division, I did a count and things are looking pretty good:

 

Face teams: Kofi/Truth, The Usos, Santino/Ryder

Heel teams: Ziggler/Swagger, Titus/Young, Epico/Primo, Hunico/Camacho, Rex/Hawkins

 

And on Smackdown Santino/Ryder v Titus/Young was a good match. I think the creative team have been trawling the forums again to find out what we want. Now they just need more tag title matches and better storylines to make us care about the teams.

[Hive]

For all the talk of WWE's tag division, I did a count and things are looking pretty good:

 

Face teams: Kofi/Truth, The Usos, Santino/Ryder

Heel teams: Ziggler/Swagger, Titus/Young, Epico/Primo, Hunico/Camacho, Rex/Hawkins

 

And on Smackdown Santino/Ryder v Titus/Young was a good match. I think the creative team have been trawling the forums again to find out what we want. Now they just need more tag title matches and better storylines to make us care about the teams.

 

Throwing two random singles guys together does not a real tag team make.

[toeachtheirown]

So John Cena is getting divorced, his wife Liz hired the same attorney that Linda hired who incidently got Linda seventy percent of the accumulated wealth. Poor John is about to fall into the same trap that has Ric Flair wrestling as seventy, ex wives when you're a wrestling millionaire.

 

I'm kind of surprised he got married to his "high school sweatheart" this late in his career. Especially when it was widley reported that him and Mickey James were a couple for a while now so its not like he's been soley with her for the last twenty years or anything.

[Jaysin]

From what I read, Cena is the one that chose to divorce her. She said she felt blindsided by being served divorce papers.

 

I doubt Cena will lose much.

 

Plus, Flair lived his on screen life style and spent way too much money on frivolous things. Ex wives are only part of why he's broke.

[supershot]

Plus it said he had a prenup

[juggaloninjalee]

For all the talk of WWE's tag division, I did a count and things are looking pretty good:

 

Face teams: Kofi/Truth, The Usos, Santino/Ryder

Heel teams: Ziggler/Swagger, Titus/Young, Epico/Primo, Hunico/Camacho, Rex/Hawkins

 

And on Smackdown Santino/Ryder v Titus/Young was a good match. I think the creative team have been trawling the forums again to find out what we want. Now they just need more tag title matches and better storylines to make us care about the teams.

 

Red = COMEDY

Green = GREEN haven't proven anything yet.

Pink = JOBBERS so far

 

So after that you are left with Kofi and Truth which I do like right now. The Usos who are barely used. Epico and Primo who lost every single match before they were tag team champions and basically are jobbers who were given a title run it seems. Then Swagger and Dolph who I love both as a team and as singles wrestlers. I doubt they will be a tag team 6 months from now but if they are still teaming I'd love for them to win the titles and go on a nice heel run. Them and Truth/Kofi could have a really good feud for awhile on and off. That is just my opinion of the tag teams.

[Slim Jim]

Plus it said he had a prenup

 

One thing I read said that it was pretty watertight, too. But it's all just dirtsheet speculation so who knows...