Rickymex Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Also: I am here to agree that he's (Cena) the worst thing in the world and i want to petition you guys to tie him up and burn his house down with him in it. You're Wellcome. Don't worry Chris Masters will save him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milamber Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 For Rickymex, my fellow AJ mark: AJ's Love Bites pendant - good gift for the gf/wife http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/09_AJ_05212013jg_0093b_zpsc38294b6.jpg~originalhttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/tumblr_mm31qz1QpY1spwp7lo2_500_zpse2c17aea.gif~original Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Yes... this is precisely my point? LOL was that not clear enough? And I'm not sitting here saying Cody or Ziggler are at Cena's level. I'm saying going forward they should push them as darker face characters like Punk and Bryan. I guess its the word "dark" that I think gets thrown a lot lately in all sorts of media. A new comedy is "dark" the new direction someone is taking is "dark" when I don't think there is anything that could remotely be "dark" about Ziggler. He's got bleached blonde hair, flashy tights, his nick name is "The show Off" honestly I see him as more of a douchy heel than a "dark" babyface. Daniel Bryan is a pasty, small, white guy with a giant goat beard that happens to be in kayfabe (and probally in reality too) the best wrestler in the company and is out to prove that his size has nothing to do with his talent. I wouldn't say thats "dark" just driven. In my opinion Daniel Bryan's character arc is exactly what they should have displayed last year with Cena. A guy on a mission to prove something to himself and anyone else and if you get in the way you're going to be beaten and possibly hurt, a guy that won't stop until his goal is met. Thats Daniel Bryan's character right now which is great, its a fierce, intense, underdog story that they're telling with him. I just wouldn't call those guys dark just alternatives to the Cena character. So no you weren't clear Also a question I would have for you is if you need all these anti Cena's why don't you need more Cena's? You have what John Cena and MAYBE Sheamus as the smiling, do no wrong, good guys? You got right now Orton, Bryan, Punk, Ziggler and I'm sure others that I'm missing as the anti Cena. So if you need five anti Cena's why do you only need one or two Cena's? In theory wouldn't one anti Cena stand out more than five? I'm not disagreeing with you I'm just pointing out that its not really the "anti" Cena. In fact it has nothing to do with Cena. I think really what you're asking for is a more diverse set of characters like what you saw in the Attitude era. Babyfaces of different background and character that you can cheer. Such as Austin, Foley, Rock, Taker, they were all babyfaces of a different kind. You didn't have ten Austins running around and then ten anti Austins. You just had individual characters. Also to reply to SM82 what on earth what makes you think that playing yourself is the hardest thing to do? If someone goes up to you SM82 and says "Ok I'm going to say this and you just reply with whatever you would normally say to that" thats INCREDIBLY easier than for example if someone brought you into the WWE as John Cena's number one fan. Which is going to be easier to get across? Your mostly real feelings towards something? Or something completley exaggerated and unlike you that at almost every moment you have to continue to ask yourself what that character would do and searching for an answer that feels right rather than just replying with what you know to be true to yourself? So yeah I can't fathom any logical reasoning that playing yourself in any situation would be harder. Wouldn't that be why its so much easier for these mega stars to get over playing an extension of themselves? Was Austin over as the Ring Master? Or was The Rock over as Rocky Maivia? Or Jesse James roadie or Billy Gunn cowboy? These guys got over when they started being themselves. For good reason its a lot harder to make people BELIEVE in a character that you are not. Is it possible? Sure but its a hell of a lot harder to build that connection to the audience acting or pro wrestling than it would be to just be yourself. So I disagree a million times over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickymex Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I think it be better suited to use gray instead of dark. Good people sometimes to things that could be considered bad and there's nothing wrong with that. Bad people sometimes can be sympathetic and there's also nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Agree, the infamous McMahon shades of grey promo. I wonder if there were FIFTY shades of grey? Hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Century Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I've really been enjoying RAW the last couple of weeks. It seems like WWE is actually trying to build up feuds over a couple of months, instead of weeks like they did the past few years. The Wyatt Family is one of the most unique things I've seen in pro wrestling, so for the first time in about a year, I'm actually looking forward to Monday Nights! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn michaels Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I guess its the word "dark" that I think gets thrown a lot lately in all sorts of media. A new comedy is "dark" the new direction someone is taking is "dark" when I don't think there is anything that could remotely be "dark" about Ziggler. He's got bleached blonde hair, flashy tights, his nick name is "The show Off" honestly I see him as more of a douchy heel than a "dark" babyface. Daniel Bryan is a pasty, small, white guy with a giant goat beard that happens to be in kayfabe (and probally in reality too) the best wrestler in the company and is out to prove that his size has nothing to do with his talent. I wouldn't say thats "dark" just driven. In my opinion Daniel Bryan's character arc is exactly what they should have displayed last year with Cena. A guy on a mission to prove something to himself and anyone else and if you get in the way you're going to be beaten and possibly hurt, a guy that won't stop until his goal is met. Thats Daniel Bryan's character right now which is great, its a fierce, intense, underdog story that they're telling with him. I just wouldn't call those guys dark just alternatives to the Cena character. So no you weren't clear Also a question I would have for you is if you need all these anti Cena's why don't you need more Cena's? You have what John Cena and MAYBE Sheamus as the smiling, do no wrong, good guys? You got right now Orton, Bryan, Punk, Ziggler and I'm sure others that I'm missing as the anti Cena. So if you need five anti Cena's why do you only need one or two Cena's? In theory wouldn't one anti Cena stand out more than five? I'm not disagreeing with you I'm just pointing out that its not really the "anti" Cena. In fact it has nothing to do with Cena. I think really what you're asking for is a more diverse set of characters like what you saw in the Attitude era. Babyfaces of different background and character that you can cheer. Such as Austin, Foley, Rock, Taker, they were all babyfaces of a different kind. You didn't have ten Austins running around and then ten anti Austins. You just had individual characters. Also to reply to SM82 what on earth what makes you think that playing yourself is the hardest thing to do? If someone goes up to you SM82 and says "Ok I'm going to say this and you just reply with whatever you would normally say to that" thats INCREDIBLY easier than for example if someone brought you into the WWE as John Cena's number one fan. Which is going to be easier to get across? Your mostly real feelings towards something? Or something completley exaggerated and unlike you that at almost every moment you have to continue to ask yourself what that character would do and searching for an answer that feels right rather than just replying with what you know to be true to yourself? So yeah I can't fathom any logical reasoning that playing yourself in any situation would be harder. Wouldn't that be why its so much easier for these mega stars to get over playing an extension of themselves? Was Austin over as the Ring Master? Or was The Rock over as Rocky Maivia? Or Jesse James roadie or Billy Gunn cowboy? These guys got over when they started being themselves. For good reason its a lot harder to make people BELIEVE in a character that you are not. Is it possible? Sure but its a hell of a lot harder to build that connection to the audience acting or pro wrestling than it would be to just be yourself. So I disagree a million times over. Disagree all you want, but before you do, make some research. Talk to actual actors and ask them. And you'll see what they tell you. Don't take my word for it, do some research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickymex Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Since Lesnar is back here's an except from the wonderful book "Brock Lesnar: The Viking Space Lord' Viking Space Lord Brock Lesnar sits on his throne of rotting McMahon flesh, feasting on the fears of bullied Be A Star kids and quenching his thirst with the tears of a failed McMahon Senate run. In the dark, contemplating the challenge to a game of wig splittin' laid down by the Rage Giant known as Mark Henry earlier, his warrior meditation is broken. Through the Genocide Portal, he hears the quacks of the pitiful half man known as The Miz, King of the Douches. His appetite of murder-death-kill piqued, the Viking Space Lord steps into the portal. He steps into an arena filled with sub humans, the scent of a soon to come skull **** is in the air, and at the center of it all is The Miz. The King of the Douches stands in the ring with a foul-smelling suit, a duckface smile, and the foresight of a child. The glory of another civilization destroyed is upon us. Slowly walking down the ramp, circling his prey. Viking Space Lord Brock Lesnar enters the designated zone for rage killing. Annoyed at his servants' heathen warnings, King of the Douches strikes with the douchiest slap that ever douched. Our hero's eyes flash with glorious blood lust as he takes the head off the King in one fell swoop. He tosses his headless foe outside, lest he sullies his gladiatorial arena of battle worship any further. Offended at the site of the King of the Douches IKEA bullshit, he launches it at the Miz like they were used diva aspirations. Continuing his magnificent redecoration, the headless douche wanders back into the ring. The Walking Extinction Event is amused with fiery purpose. He decides to end to it, hitting Miz, King of the Douches, with the World Eater, the Rock Buster, the Rage Shark Repellent, the Genetically Enhanced Gorilla Breaker, the Death Pterodactyl Dance....A.K.A THE MUTHA****IN' F-5! Another civilization conquered. The Warrior Poet makes his way back to the Genocide Portal, to his throne of decay, back home to his kingdom of holocaust not fully satisfied. For The Great Coward of Our Time, Triple H, has yet to reveal himself.[/Quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickymex Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Disagree all you want, but before you do, make some research. Talk to actual actors and ask them. And you'll see what they tell you. Don't take my word for it, do some research. Do you have any of this proof to show us? You can't tell a guy he's wrong and to do research without showing some to support your statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think really what you're asking for is a more diverse set of characters like what you saw in the Attitude era.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yes I'm looking for different archetypes for wrestling character. Thats exactly what I'm saying. Yes i think pushing Rhodes and Ziggler could (note could not will) end up being a sign that they're interested in pushing a darker babyface again. I'd be happy with that.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rickymex" data-cite="Rickymex" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Do you have any of this proof to show us? You can't tell a guy he's wrong and to do research without showing some to support your statements.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I've heard actors say that as well... but I think SM doesn't understand really what is meant by that.</p><p> </p><p> To play "yourself" in a movie about you, or about someone life that you were in, would feel surreal and self interested, uncomfortable, etc. </p><p> </p><p> Huge difference vs. doing a wrestling promo, where the whole thing is about entertaining the crowd and trying to create a piece of you the crowd can connect with. </p><p> </p><p> I think Foley was more right then wrong when he said Stand up Comedy and Wrestling Promo's go hand in hand, in that your relying on yourself totally, and trying to connect with the crowd (get them into what your doing/or against).</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Black Phenom Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What do you mean by "darker" babyfaces? What exactly is Cody Rhodes character? Or heck Dolph Ziggler's for that matter. I'm still a bit confused if he's officially a babyface or not or when his turn might have been other than dumping AJ the other night. <p> </p><p> Also isn't CM Punk the "anti" Cena or heck even Daniel Bryan at this point? Punk is the anti Cena in the sense that he doesn't tow the company line, he says whatever he wants, whenever he wants. As opposed to Cena kissing babies and smiling while tapping out. (I slighted Cena cue SM82 coming in here to agree that he's the worst thing in the world and petitioning us to tie him up and burn his house down with him in it). </p><p> </p><p> I would say Punk is for sure the dark, anti Cena but I haven't seen ANYTHING ever from Cody Rhodes or Dolph Ziggler from a character stand point that made me say "take my money I want to see this guy fight". Ziggler is a good worker, I wouldn't say great but he's a good worker better than most on the roster but I've never seen him cut a single promo like Punk, like Cena, like even Daniel Bryan that made me say "yes take my money I need to see him do what he just said he was going to do". </p><p> </p><p> I also don't think anyone but Ziggler can be blamed for that. He's been pushed rather heavily despite recent complaints the guy has been a focal point of one show or another for years now and has been fairly well promoted and protected outside of his losing streak before winning the WHC. I've just never seen him cut that promo that made me say "oh man this guy is going to do something awesome at the ppv and I don't wanna miss it".</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> Because here's the thing... there was a time in the WWE where most babyfaces were Cena-clones.</p><p> </p><p> So yes, "dark" babyfaces is a disproportional term applied to this issue but at the same time it makes sense. Because it used to be much worse. At a certain time, Cena's character was the trailblazer for most babyfaces on the roster at the time, representing sort of a gradual spiral into the PG movement. I remember Matt Hardy, Rey Mysterio and many others catering to this fighting spirit, good guy soldier mentality. Of course, that did not apply for all of them, and there were shades of differences pertaining to the character and as to why it'd make sense(Rey is typecast as the underdog) but in general, the state of babyfaceland was much worse than it is today. To put it another way, it wasn't just Cena who started kissing babies and hugging fat girls(had to use a Batista reference I guess)</p><p> </p><p> You couldn't exactly portray any face today as a Steve Austin incarnate or a "darker or edgier" character but however now you got faces who are a bit more ruthless in their strikes in the ring or on ambushes. Faces who curse, faces who interfere with weapons, and most importantly faces who haven't suffered a great deal of change to their character... so far. And sure, we still had all that in the past... just for a while back and for a good amount of time it was not the same. The only thing that made Del Rio tolerable was the fact he didn't change his character that much(even though he stopped rolling in with the cars, became more culturally proud, changed his tights and induced crowd chants... ok his character still changed a bit but the core was there, Ricardo was the main selling point anyway), Cody and Ziggler right now.. I mean things are in motion so I can't say yet but it doesn't look like they'll get coerced into a traditional babyface role like how so bloody often it occurred in the past. Countless characters like MVP, Carlito and others who lost their edge, with or without receiving a push breakthrough upon the turn.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Black Phenom Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="crownsy" data-cite="crownsy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>With you here. And I'll take it a step further, Cody's turn also makes no sense because it was an every man for himself brawl.<p> </p><p> What was sandow supposed to do? Clap and wave at him? Not sure why it's a face maneuver to get outworked by another guy in a winner take all match, regardless of the fact he's your tag team partner.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Did you notice during Sandow and Rhodes' entrance at MITB that Sandow yanked the mic off of Cody's hands?</p><p> </p><p> Foreshadowing. I'd allow it.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milamber Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 <p>I usually just check the results for Main Event but this week it was interesting enough to watch the highlights as well:</p><p> </p><p> <strong>Christian vs Fandango</strong> - Christian won an even match with a roll-up. Fandango got some pops. Christian got spear chants.</p><p> <strong>Natalya/Layla vs Aksana/Fox</strong> - Average match but the crowd got behind Layla. Natalya was wasted.</p><p> <strong>Gabriel vs Slater</strong> - Gabriel was dominating until the Wyatt's came out. Rowan & Harper assaulted Gabriel and all of 3MB (talking of face turns...). Bray delivered the "Sister Abigail" to Slater. All 4 guys were dumped in a heap and Bray made a quick speech again aimed at Kane.</p><p> </p><p> <a href="http://www.wwe.com/shows/wwemainevent/2013-07-17/wwe-main-event-results-seizing-opportunities-26132906/page-3" rel="external nofollow"><strong>Wyatt Family highlights</strong></a></p><p> </p><p> Interesting comment from a BleacherReport article:</p><p> </p><p> Kane wasn't just mentioned, The entire promo was for Kane.</p><p> "there aint no thing as a hero" why are you trying to be a face, playing to the crowd.</p><p> "you think you need somebody to pat you on the back" Daniel Bryan.</p><p> "the man who made you is a liar" Paul Bearer.</p><p> "your own flesh and blood turned his back on you" the undertaker.</p><p> Wyatt was talking to Kane the whole time.</p><p> </p><p> Some believe the original storyline was Taker & Kane vs The Wyatts but Taker isn't ready to wrestle yet, so it looks like Kane will become the Wyatt's pet monster. Which would make for a cool heel turn if they did it right.</p><p> </p><p> <span>http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/tumblr_mplmm1r9YU1qi1wcfo1_500_zps88c6559d.jpg~original</span><span>http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/tumblr_mpkrfnwPTz1s8jeybo1_500_zps6b5aadef.jpg~original</span><span>http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/tumblr_mpwzv9oTNE1rsrrzso1_500_zps530d808d.jpg~original</span><span>http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/934948_588777617834037_1209945805_n_zpseb470e40.jpg~original</span></p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="panix04" data-cite="panix04" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I must admit RAW is becoming must watch TV for me lately. When Bray Wyatt cut his promo I thought, that dude has to be just about the best stick man in the business at the moment - completely chilling, even managed to halt "what" chants, because, well I think its because of how captivating he is. <p> </p><p> But then when Heyman had finished his diatribe against punk and Punk formed his rebuttal it was a bit like punk was saying "Bray Wyatt better on the mic than me? Bitch please!" just an amazing promo with great depth and emotion. Forget putting the Miz and Orton in movies CM Punk is arguably the best actor on the roster. And then the brawl between Punk and Lesnar... Epic! </p><p> </p><p> Just my thoughts.</p><p> </p><p> Oh and one more thing - Jericho washed up Canadian? To quote the Miz - Really? Really? Really? He may not be getting any younger but Y2J just put on a match that could proudly sit atop any PPV. <img alt=":cool:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/cool.png.f00d2562b2c1d873a09323753efdb041.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Any... Destination X PPV? Any... Legends of Wrestling PPV? I mean I guess he carried RVD to a decent TV match. I don't remember calling him call him "washed up." He is old and small though, and his character has been dull since his feud with Punk last year. I think the Canadian Cool Dads is a great idea!</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Not saying Punk's not awesome he is, and I'm not saying he CAN'T act I'm just saying cutting an old school pro wrestling promo and acting are not the same thing. That being said The Miz can't even cut a pro wrestling promo let alone act so if we're only comparing him to The Miz and others of that ilk then I would think Punk would be DiNero on film compared to those guys.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Weird that you'd single out Miz as a guy that can't cut a promo, he was doing great stuff a few years back. His "walk out from the back while cutting a live promo" was really solid stuff. </p><div class="ipsEmbeddedVideo"><div><iframe width="200" height="150" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/fKU_k9mcZsc?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" title="The Miz Awesome Promo"></iframe></div></div><p> </p><p> </p><p> shawn michaels 82, the whole "it's hard to play yourself" trope is only true in certain circumstances, basically none of which apply to wrestling. It's hard to show vulnerability, confront real life issues, or "be your normal self," but it's not that hard to be a hyper-macho version of yourself. Most people do it anyway when they go to the gym. <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> And look at how much easier these promos get when they come from a real place- Miz's real frustration with guys like JBL, Punk's real frustration with his career in WWE, or HBK's real frustration with Bret Hart. It's not "harder" because they're playing themselves; it means they don't really have to "act" at all.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milamber Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 <p>I'm surprised by how good Harper is. Had some good matches against Elgin and Cesaro pre-WWE:</p><p> </p><p> <a href="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1700351-the-wyatt-family-7-fun-facts-about-wwes-frightening-family/page/6" rel="external nofollow"><strong>http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1700351-the-wyatt-family-7-fun-facts-about-wwes-frightening-family/page/6</strong></a></p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crownsy Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Tha Black Phenom" data-cite="Tha Black Phenom" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Did you notice during Sandow and Rhodes' entrance at MITB that Sandow yanked the mic off of Cody's hands?<p> </p><p> Foreshadowing. I'd allow it.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> yea, I just think it was a lazy turn man. It's what they do now "This guys a face now, no story needed!"</p><p> </p><p> compare what there doing with Punk to the flash turns they've done with Del Rio, cody and ziggler.</p><p> </p><p> I'd give those turns a C- in TEW terms.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="crownsy" data-cite="crownsy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>yea, I just think it was a lazy turn man. It's what they do now "This guys a face now, no story needed!"<p> </p><p> compare what there doing with Punk to the flash turns they've done with Del Rio, cody and ziggler.</p><p> </p><p> I'd give those turns a C- in TEW terms.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> And now Henry he's a face because The Shield attacked him not exactly the best story to turn someone face especially after JUST swerving the face turn a month ago. You can't fake out a face turn especially the way he did it and then a month later say "ok for real this time I'm a face".</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Tha Black Phenom" data-cite="Tha Black Phenom" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Did you notice during Sandow and Rhodes' entrance at MITB that Sandow yanked the mic off of Cody's hands?<p> </p><p> Foreshadowing. I'd allow it.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> In addititon to him doing it for over a month leading to the PPV. It wasn't exactly out of nowhere. It JUST happened (as well as Henry) why not allow at least one week for the story to develop?</p><p> </p><p> I don't know why people want everything to be so clear from the very start. Its not like the Shield hasn't attacked heels randomly before just for the hell of it.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basmat01 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And now Henry he's a face because The Shield attacked him not exactly the best story to turn someone face especially after JUST swerving the face turn a month ago. You can't fake out a face turn especially the way he did it and then a month later say "ok for real this time I'm a face".</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I thought no-one was off limits when it came to the shield Face or Heel.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Black Phenom Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="crownsy" data-cite="crownsy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>yea, I just think it was a lazy turn man. It's what they do now "This guys a face now, no story needed!"<p> </p><p> compare what there doing with Punk to the flash turns they've done with Del Rio, cody and ziggler.</p><p> </p><p> I'd give those turns a C- in TEW terms.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> In a way I also look at is, bringing back to my post before that one, babyfaces not actually looking the greatest in their motives. Flash turns, exactly. They could be salvageable. Just like with Cody now, we've had heels turn faces under questionable logic before, within angles that make you go "do you really have a leg to stand on to be exacting revenge?" because as you said, MITB was every man for himself. Yeah on that basis Cody shouldn't have been that vindictive. So possibly the reason for the turn is quite simply an emotional reaction of him being butthurt about losing the match and taking it out on his now former partner.</p><p> </p><p> Which to me, if Cody works under the sour puss angle and turns into this aggressive babyface(he has quite the raging fits in his mannerisms) it may still make for interesting TV and would certainly be different from the days when faces were holding doors for divas, hugging fans and proclaiming the "never say die, do it all for the fans" attitude when coerced against an opponent. I'm not expecting some badass outlaw persona here either, but.. eh I'll just wait and see.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russelrules44 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Hmmm, I think the Ziggler turn was booked pretty well, I mean, the fans felt sorry for Ziggler cause he lost the world champion, despite Del Rio's ruthless attempts, As for the Del Rio turn, I think that might have saved his career, Now don't get me wrong, Del Rio didn't suck suck as a babyface, but he was pretty stale nontheless, and his feud with Swagger although entertainment at some points, wasn't exactly crash tv, As for the Cody Rhodes face turn.........well, We'll just have to wait and see, Mark Henry was beat the living hell out of by The Shield, so that might have started his own babyface turn, let's hope it doesn't flop like his last face run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panix04 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The thing is I don't think CM Punk is that great of an actor. CM Punk gets to be Phil Brooks every night. Thats not an insult Steve Austin got to be Steve Williams every night, Hollywood Hogan got to be Terry Bollea every night. The Rock get to be Dwayne Johnson, Randy Savage got to be Randy Poffo and so on and so on. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm not so sure that's really true. If you watch 'Beyond the Mat' and compare Duane Johnson to the Rock, he's not over the top and a walking cliché he's just a regular Joe. Austin didn't rampage around backstage flipping everyone off and shooting snakes. I think what you're saying has a bit of weight, but I don't think any decent wrestling character is actually playing themselves completely, rather they play a part that has a connection with their real life persona. For me it's a bit like writing. When you are writing a character you are told as a novice author to write what you know, but as you become more advanced they teach you to subvert what you know. Create characters based on people you know, but change details about that person to give fictional characters a freshness.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What I mean though its its like Eminem getting praise for his acting in 8 mile. Is it really acting when you're essentially just playing an ever so slightly tweaked version of yourself? </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Who did this? <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> had they ever watched a movie? <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>CM Punk is a fantastic promo guys, he's a pretty good worker (his kicks look sloppy and times and I think the GTS is the ugliest, sloppiest finisher in history and wish he would use the Anaconda Vice or something else). <p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I have got to disagree here. I would say CM Punk is a very good worker. Not perfect, but one of the strongest in the WWE.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Anyway though Bray Wyatt I would think that he's not really a cult leader in real life or really preaching to the masses about being sheep or what not. Maybe these are some of his thoughts but I would venture to say that Bray Wyatt's character is a farther stretch from who he really is than CM Punk's from who he really is. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> They were very different promos to be fair. Bray Wyatt is obviously not a cult leader but his promo's resonate because of his informal, preacher-like approach. He uses rhetoric which obviously engages a listener. Punk however was all about displaying emotion. He's not the same angry Punk that cut his golden pipe bomb promo, he obviously does not have a real life grievance with Heyman. Yet he was able to go to the well and pull out a performance that would convince a helluva lot of people that he is livid with Heyman. It was a truly believable piece and that for me is good acting.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Not saying Punk's not awesome he is, and I'm not saying he CAN'T act I'm just saying cutting an old school pro wrestling promo and acting are not the same thing. <p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think this is ultimately were you and I disagree. For me acting is playing a character different from your own and trying to convey emotions you aren't necessarily feeling. And I think, that although some of the best guys play characters that are an extension of themselves, they are still not themselves.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think Foley was more right then wrong when he said Stand up Comedy and Wrestling Promo's go hand in hand, in that your relying on yourself totally, and trying to connect with the crowd (get them into what your doing/or against).</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> haha have you seen Foley's stand up? It's pretty poor! <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Any... Destination X PPV? Any... Legends of Wrestling PPV? I mean I guess he carried RVD to a decent TV match. I don't remember calling him call him "washed up." He is old and small though, and his character has been dull since his feud with Punk last year. I think the Canadian Cool Dads is a great idea!</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> From a technical stand point he could have main evented any PPV for the WWE this year. (i'm sure with a bit of practice he could even learn a fireman's carry and an STF and dominate for a decade!) Sure he has the odd botched spot, but his repertoire of moves lends itself to that. I think the only reason his character seems stale is because he hasn't been booked in a decent feud for a good while, the Fandango feud was blatantly just to give Fandango a "mania moment" and this latest effort against Ryback was turgid crap. They planted a seed for a Ziggler feud and that would have been great for both men. Jericho is great at giving younger workers the rub and a lot of people have made comparisons between the two</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And now Henry he's a face because The Shield attacked him not exactly the best story to turn someone face especially after JUST swerving the face turn a month ago. You can't fake out a face turn especially the way he did it and then a month later say "ok for real this time I'm a face".</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Hasn't Henry just come out of a program with the WWE's top heel? Oh wait, all the booing Cena receives confused me <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't know why people want everything to be so clear from the very start. Its not like the Shield hasn't attacked heels randomly before just for the hell of it.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> True. It did feel like a turn though, mainly because Henry has been receiving a lot of face pops, again due to his work rate. Us internet fans love a try-er!</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickymex Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 As long as they don't change Mark Henry's character I don't mind who he fights. A badass destroyer like Henry works best when he has a clear enemy to eliminate and if they have him fight the shield by himself until being forced to accept the help of the usos it could lead to some good character development for him and even for the usos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crownsy Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rickymex" data-cite="Rickymex" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As long as they don't change Mark Henry's character I don't mind who he fights. A badass destroyer like Henry works best when he has a clear enemy to eliminate and if they have him fight the shield by himself until being forced to accept the help of the usos it could lead to some good character development for him and even for the usos.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yea just keep him in his current destroyer role and I don't care what his target is. What I don't want back is simlin, jokin, mark henry. That guy sucks.</p><p> </p><p> The Mark Henry of about the last 3 years though, has been an absolute delight.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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