The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>Its not about accomplishments all the time.</p><p> </p><p>

I never cared for him but he was ahead of his time promo wise and created a move virtually every wrestler uses today. As for being a jerk... Warrior is also going in</p>

[bigtplaystew]

<p>Yea but I mean Warrior was THE GUY for a little bit there I get him going in. He also had a short run but I mean... he was the Ultimate Champion! :-D</p><p> </p><p>

I'm a mark for both guys so let me just make that abundantly clear right now.</p>

[Mammoth]

You're right, his accomplishments aren't that great but I'm pretty sure Drew Carey and Mike Tyson didn't win anything either. The Hall of Fame has lost a lot of credibility in recent years because it's become a popularity contest rather than basing the nominees on what they've done for wrestling and as that's the case, Jake Roberts deserves to be inducted more than most. You couldn't watch the WWF for a period without seeing a Jake Roberts sign in the crowd and he was a merchandise machine. Like Teh_Showtime said, he was years ahead of his time in the promo stakes, he pioneered the DDT (he didn't create it, don't let the WWE tell you those lies) and I think people take his wrestling skills for granted, if he didn't grow up with Grizzly Smith as a dad and therefore didn't turn to drinking, I think he would have been one of the greats on the microphone and in the ring. He may have never actually won a title in the WWE (although that doesn't matter, remember WWE induct people who are/were famous in other promotions, not just the 'E) but he was always there or there about and I think anyone who is still remembered today - which he is - needs some sort of acknowledgement, it simply just doesn't come down to accomplishments any more. It certainly doesn't come down to personality either because half of the people in the HoF are egomaniacs/jerks but that's because the best usually are. I'd much rather have people like Jake Roberts in there - who have offered something to wrestling even if it's not a rich title history - than say, Donald Trump.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, Antonio Cesaro in the Elimination Chamber and The Wyatt Family Vs. The Shield = Money. Cesaro obviously won't win but you can guaran-damn-tee some ****in' great spots, so I cannot wait to see that and The Wyatt's Vs. The Shield speaks for itself. I think that settles the "bad booking" argument, right?

[Jaysin]

Jake deserves it more than some people that are already in the Hall of Fame. What did Koko B Ware do to deserve to be in there?

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>I won't speak on Drew Carey but Tyson absolutely deserves an induction into the celebrity "wing" of the "Hall" of fame which is nothing more than a list of people at this point.</p><p> </p><p>

I never understood the hate for putting celebs in the HoF when it's not like they are portraying them as wrestlers, they are simply acknowledging their place in wrestling and they have been a big part of WWE over the past 30 years. Trump, Tyson, Lauper, etc have all made contributions to wrestling. It's not like saying Mike Tyson is a great as 16 time world champion Ric Flair, they are separated.</p>

[dvdWarrior]

<p>Personally, I'm happy to see Jake "The Snake" getting his spot at the hall. Sure, he didn't hold any titles during his career, but it was a different era, (no offense intended to any of today's stars, but sometimes it seems like all someone has to do to claim at least one championship is be able to to work for the company at least a year or two without being fired), and very few characters were as memorable. Jake, alongside the Ultimate Warrior, makes me think we're gonna see a very... unique.. HOF class this year.</p><p> </p><p>

They still need to let Macho Man in there though. </p><p> </p><p>

More than anything else lately though, I'm excited like none other for the WWE Network. The fact that it's set to debut ON MY BIRTHDAY makes me think it's meant to be, it was written in the stars for me to subscribe. </p><p> </p><p>

Now, all I have to do is figure out what I have to do to make that happen. </p><p> </p><p>

<img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/redface.png.900245280682ef18c5d82399a93c5827.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[lazorbeak]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="bigtplaystew" data-cite="bigtplaystew" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Hey I want to throw this by you guys. Anyone a little weary of Jake Roberts getting into the Hall of Fame? I think he was great and influential. He was also dangerous, unreliable, and a volatile jerk for the vast majority of his career in WWE and elsewhere.<p> </p><p> Dude was one of my personal favorites as a kid and I think his influence on pro wrestlers years later was far greater than his accomplishments ever were. I mean no disrespect I'm just trying to look at this objectively. He had a relatively short run in WWE and never touched a belt. He never really had a significantly lengthy main event run. When he did he lost. I mean Kofi Kingston is more decorated than jake. Is Kofi a future Hall of Famer? R Truth? Guys like that? At that point are you putting in any guy that had a 5 year run with some TV time? So does Santino Marella get in? Umaga? Great Khali? lol. Believe it or not all those names had comparable or longer runs and accomplished more in the company than Jake Roberts did as far as titles go. I guess one should take into account during Jake's time there were only two singles belts which is a significant difference. If Jake hit his prime in the last few years I'm sure he'd have had a US/IC title reign or two. But still... he didn't :-)</p><p> </p><p> I wonder if they just induct too many guys because at this point it seems like if you had a 5 year career with the company and got a decent amount of TV time during that run you're in. Should it be more selective? I promise I'm not fishing for an argument I'm trying to gauge the pulse of this decision and asking questions, so please keep responses level headed accordingly.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yes, of course Jake deserves to get in. That's a silly question. I'm curious on what planet being with a company for six-seven years is "brief" in pro wrestling (I realize WWE's midcard today has long runs, but that's because there's nowhere else for them to go). Beyond that, Jake was actually a draw at a time when that was important, because there were other wrestling promotions out there. His value to the company was something like Shawn Michaels in the 00's or Mankind at his absolute most over in 98-99: he wasn't presented as the best athlete, but he was so over and such a good talker that he could main event house shows and have important matches on PPV without needing a belt. He also wasn't "dangerous" or "unreliable" during his initial WWF run, as he was consistently one of their very best workers. In fact, the only reason he didn't work a program with Hogan in 87 was that the fans were getting behind Jake too much. His feuds with Rick Rude and Andre the Giant were main event feuds, whether or not they were for a belt, and the program with Rude was years ahead of its time. Also, while it's hard to make too much of it from his one PPV headline appearance in WCW, that show had WCW's biggest buyrate until Flair/Hogan a few years later. And I'm pretty sure the buyrate wasn't thanks to the Ron Simmons/Barbarian match that was in the semi-main event. </p><p> </p><p> Obviously Jake was a rung below a guy like Randy Savage for most of his career, but that had more to do with the fact that he looked like he never set foot in a gym during a time when look was a huge deal in terms of who was pushed. In TEW terms, he was a main eventer in the biggest promotion in the world for 4-5 years. How many times he won a belt really doesn't matter. Ted DiBiase was already inducted in 2010, and really doesn't have a much better resume, and was used very similarly (except exclusively as a heel). Both were great workers, neither had the "championship" look, but both were big name stars that could work a 15 minute PPV match that the fans would go crazy for. </p><p> </p><p> If Jake were in his prime today he'd be a six time World Heavyweight champion and would be used to build up guys the company sees as bigger stars- that's just how WWE operates/operated in the past few years. Plus, it's hard to over-state just how much influence he has on the roster, from CM Punk to Randy Orton. He was a cool babyface at a time and place when babyfaces were almost all baby-kissing, good-looking dorks.</p>

[bigtplaystew]

<p>Fair enough. I'm convinced. Jake belongs in. But it raises questions about who gets in down the road to me anyway. I also think there's some nostalgia goggles going on, which I'm susceptible to myself. I watch a lot of old WWF shows and Jake did A LOT of botching in big time matches. He was inconsistent. At his best Jake was great but that wasn't night in night out like Shawn Michaels, who had his problems but managed to deliver int he ring for a vast majority of his career. He was never Sin Cara level botcher but I mean he was screwing up and miscommunicating a lot during a time where they weren't doing a ton of difficult moves. Then again, he WAS one of the guys taking more risks so I understand. Comparing Jake to Shawn... I dunno i need you to expand on that a bit before I will go along with that myself. But overall good points, everyone. </p><p> </p><p>

He really was so massively influential that I guess that overshadows all of the bad stuff. His feud with Rude was great stuff that was so much cooler and more realistic than what was going on at the time. He's one of those guys that was a godfather to the Attitude Era as he spoke calmly and real while his contemporaries were screaming and carrying on like cartoon characters. he was well ahead of his time and I do respect what he's done, trust me. I wasn't trying to act like Jake Roberts is killing the credibility of the HoF. Just wondering how other people felt I guess.</p>

[RayW]

You have to remember that the WWE Hall of Fame is no longer just for WWE alumni. It's more of an "all of pro wrestling" Hall of Fame, so you have to also take into account what Jake done outside of the WWE. Also the Hall of Fame has never been about what the guys have accomplished, other wise Koko B. Ware would be no where near it.

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mammoth" data-cite="Mammoth" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The Hall of Fame has lost a lot of credibility in recent years because it's become a popularity contest rather than basing the nominees on what they've done for wrestling and as that's the case, Jake Roberts deserves to be inducted more than most.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I am not sure it ever had a lot of credibility to begin with. Heck Vince Sr.'s driver was one of the first people inducted into the HOF. Then you have people like Koko B. Ware and Jim Duggan who do not belong anywhere near a Hall of Fame. </p><p> </p><p> In regards to Jake, yes he should be in a Hall of Fame because it ceased being a WWE HOF years ago (Maybe that is why Duggan is in there due to what he did in Mid-South/UWF.). If someone like Verne Gagne (Who never worked for them) is in their HOF, then I see no problem with Jake getting in there and that is just based on his merits in the WWF.</p><p> </p><p> I want to know when King Kong Bundy is going to get in. I mean he was a major player during the mid-80's and he most certainly did more for the WWF than a lot of the others who have been put in their HOF.</p>

[Dawn]

I wanted Brian Pillman to enter it. Just saying.

[lazorbeak]

<p>Ron Simmons should be in the Hall for being the first black world champion. I can just picture his acceptance speech.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Comparing Jake to Shawn... I dunno i need you to expand on that a bit before I will go along with that myself. But overall good points' date=' everyone.[/quote']<p> </p><p> I meant in terms of overness and push, not necessarily in-ring skill. I also think part of the reason you're suggesting that Jake had so many "botches" is that psychology in the late 80's/early 90's was done more in the ring in those days, so it's easier to have more mis-communication, especially when a guy like Jake was more willing than most to do new stuff. By and large he had great psychology, and you wouldn't see him do the old "miss a spot, then pretend that never happened and try the exact same thing again" very often.</p></div></blockquote>

[Truly]

<p>God, has anyone seen that promo Ziggler delivered that was featured on the WWE App?</p><p> </p><p>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOxFGrnZ4Dc" rel="external nofollow">Dolph Ziggler's Best WWE Promo. (2014)</a></p><p> </p><p>

Had no idea Ziggler could cut a promo like this. He broke kayfabe a bit but the passion and emotion he exuded still blew me away! Why don't they allow everyone to perform interview segments this way; mostly everyone typically come off as robotic and abit too tamed at times nowadays.</p>

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>We ended on a good note in agreeance but I wouldn't be me if I didn't point out the irony of you saying "we get it you don't like Punk" after I said I would enjoy him not being on my TV. Take that feeling when you wrote it and apply it to everytime you say similar things about Cena "We get it you don't like Cena". Not trying to argue it was just funny/ironic that you were on the other side of the eye roll this time. Although I will say that I didn't think I've said anything about not liking Punk but twice. Have I mentioned how overjoyed I am that he's gone though? <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Your joy will be gone, and that will be my joy! <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> He will be back. Don't worry! <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> :D <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[milamber]

Smackdown Review:

 

Ziggler vs Cesaro (EC Qualifier) - Zeb's signs are fantastic. Great match. Nice push for Cesaro qualifying for his first Elimination Chamber.

The Shield - Strong, passionate segment that started with Ambrose and Reigns arguing. Rollins tried to get them to focus on the Wyatts. Ambrose issued a challenge to the Wyatts after threatening to wipe them off the face of the earth. Vicki tried to make the match official but HHH cut her off and told the Shield to let it go. Reigns got in his face (with the crowd chanting "Roman!") and HHH made it an official EC match.

Woods vs Fandango - Solid match won by Fandango. They have similar styles and work well together. Summer broke Emma's sign at ringside but Emma had a backup sign. She also got a crowd reaction this time.

Rybaxel vs PTP - Squash match with Young taking the pin (Titus didn't get tagged in). Young accidentally got his mouth busted open. Titus called Young a loser and beat the crap out of him. Sudden but effective break-up.

Christian vs Swagger (EC Qualifier) - Solid match. I'm OK with Christian being hot-shotted into the Elimination Chamber. The match needs high-profile jobbers (Christian & Cesaro) to take the early pins.

Kofi vs Sandow - Solid, fast-paced match won by Kofi.

Rhodes vs Road Dogg - Solid match won by Cody.

Wyatt Family promo - Good as always. Harper even got in a few words.

The Shield vs Sheamus, Mysterio & Bryan - Great match. Everyone was booked strong, even Rey who took the pin after a Roman spear. Reigns with the best 2 quotes of show aimed at the crowd: "Half-time adjustments, fool!" and "Who's the man?"

 

Verdict: Easily better than Raw and NXT in terms of wrestling quality. The show also served as an effective set up for the Elimination Chamber PPV.

[Stennick]

Your joy will be gone, and that will be my joy! He will be back. Don't worry! :D

 

And when he's not I'll remember that not only did you want him back but you were certain he would be back as well so him leaving is like the gift that keeps on giving.

[milamber]

God, has anyone seen that promo Ziggler delivered that was featured on the WWE App?

 

Dolph Ziggler's Best WWE Promo. (2014)

 

Had no idea Ziggler could cut a promo like this. He broke kayfabe a bit but the passion and emotion he exuded still blew me away! Why don't they allow everyone to perform interview segments this way; mostly everyone typically come off as robotic and abit too tamed at times nowadays.

 

And Ryback now has a YouTube account. I wish WWE creative could find a way of transferring these guys' off-screen personalities on-screen.

 

[shawn michaels]

And when he's not I'll remember that not only did you want him back but you were certain he would be back as well so him leaving is like the gift that keeps on giving.

 

Rest assured that whatever happens I will be sleeping like a baby!

[Rayelek]

God, has anyone seen that promo Ziggler delivered that was featured on the WWE App?

 

Dolph Ziggler's Best WWE Promo. (2014)

 

Had no idea Ziggler could cut a promo like this. He broke kayfabe a bit but the passion and emotion he exuded still blew me away! Why don't they allow everyone to perform interview segments this way; mostly everyone typically come off as robotic and abit too tamed at times nowadays.

 

This promo felt very Chris Jericho to me; maybe it's just Dolph's hair. But that was an awesome promo, to be sure.

[Jaysin]

Ron Simmons should be in the Hall for being the first black world champion. I can just picture his acceptance speech.

 

Ron Simmons was inducted in 2012.

 

Am I the only one that thinks the guy interviewing Dolph Ziggler says Santonio Cesaro?

[Basmat01]

God, has anyone seen that promo Ziggler delivered that was featured on the WWE App?

 

Dolph Ziggler's Best WWE Promo. (2014)

 

Had no idea Ziggler could cut a promo like this. He broke kayfabe a bit but the passion and emotion he exuded still blew me away! Why don't they allow everyone to perform interview segments this way; mostly everyone typically come off as robotic and abit too tamed at times nowadays.

 

this type of stuff is what draws me to certain wrestlers. The guy LOVES pro wrestling.

[Jaysin]

I just finished the Triple H documentary. Pretty good watch and funny. I have never been a big fan of him, but I am looking forward to when he takes over for Vince.

 

One of the funniest lines was Batista saying Triple H is the Michael Jordan of wrestling.

[Comradebot]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Truly" data-cite="Truly" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>God, has anyone seen that promo Ziggler delivered that was featured on the WWE App?<p> </p><p> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOxFGrnZ4Dc" rel="external nofollow">Dolph Ziggler's Best WWE Promo. (2014)</a></p><p> </p><p> Had no idea Ziggler could cut a promo like this. He broke kayfabe a bit but the passion and emotion he exuded still blew me away! Why don't they allow everyone to perform interview segments this way; mostly everyone typically come off as robotic and abit too tamed at times nowadays.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I love Ziggler.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I'm still holding out hope that one day the WWE does a storyline with him and Billy Gunn where Billy Gunn is playing Dolph Ziggler...</p><p> </p><p> ... <em>from the future.</em></p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>I got a kick out of Billy missing the stinger splash just like Ziggler a few weeks back</p><p> </p><p>

Now that he's back from his concussion I don't think they can deny the fans that dream match <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I just finished the Triple H documentary. Pretty good watch and funny. I have never been a big fan of him, but I am looking forward to when he takes over for Vince. <p> </p><p> One of the funniest lines was Batista saying Triple H is the Michael Jordan of wrestling. <img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I like HHH, but Thy Kindgom Come has made nothing to change (or help a bit) the notion that already exists from him. The Batista comment saying he's the Michael Jordan of wrestling just makes it worse. All & all, it was a fun watch, and a good thing to see if you're a HHH fan, or if you're a fan of the mainstream style DVD's from WWE. But at the end of the day, no matter how many times HHH wanted to say he was "in love" with wrestling, blah blah blah, no one's really going to believe it. And I'm not saying it's not true. Just saying or implying it 50.000 times along 3 hours won't help him at all. Just my 2 cents.</p><p> </p><p> Ps: I can even imagine Hunter writting the hole thing and sitting on his director chair, instruting people on how to compliment him. Now that would be fun to watch. <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>