The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[delv213]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So if I'm understanding correctly you're saying that you'll take a wrestlers opinion over anyone else because they're a wrestler. So what happens when wrestlers have different opinions? I mean do you think every wrestler agrees with each other? I missed a lot of the actual argument and I'm too tired to go back but from what I saw you were basically saying that you'll take the opinion of a wrestler over just a regular person. <p> </p><p> So if me and my friend work at McDonalds and a customer who doesn't work there notices something I'm doing wrong or right and my co worker disagrees then that makes my co worker right because he knows the ins and outs of McDonalds? Or what about Vince McMahon I mean my god he essentially created the way that we view wrestling today and since what we see on television is his vision wouldn't that mean he's right and people that aren't in the business are wrong? </p><p> </p><p> Its faulty logic to say that someone is right just because they are a wrestler and someone else isn't or even to say that you'll take their opinion over someone elses. Wrestlers have vested interests just like any other normal human being. Maybe they have an ax to grind, maybe they are looking to their next paycheck, are maybe just like with everything else in life what one person in this case a wrestler sees is different than an entirely different person. </p><p> </p><p> Ryback never in the history of this earth was close to being the "next John Cena". He was over but Daniel Bryan is a lot closer to being "the next John Cena' than Ryback and DB is nowhere close. I don't think people understand just who John Cena is and how much money he has made/makes them. John Cena is in rarified air with the likes of Austin and Hogan as far as how important he is to the company. Ryback had a winning streak for a while and beat some jobbers on Smackdown. Not quite the same thing. </p><p> </p><p> Also this whole talk of Batista beating Del Rio handeldly or what not doesn't help anyone is faulty logic as well. Pro wrestling was BUILT on guys beating up punks. How many "monsters" were made and how many babyfaces were made to look like a million bucks by plowing through lines of jobbers? Del Rio is clearly never going to see the light of the Main Event again and he's on his way out the door this summer. He's the perfect guy to leech overness off of. Now the match doesn't work for a million reasons but the reasons stated aren't true at all. </p><p> </p><p> On a side note it wasn't fans that killed the piledrivers it was Owen Hart breaking Steve Austin's neck with it, it was D Lo brown delivering a running powerbomb (similar to a piledriver) and breaking Droz's neck. Its an incredibly dangerous move and there is no need for risk like that. The DDT has been a regular move for two decades outside of Jake Roberts. There are countless finishes that are still over. the AA, The GTS (god I hate that move). etc. Its an easy rule. If YOU'RE over your finish is over its that simple. CM Punk could hit a 100 GTS' in one night and the move would still be over. The Big Show got a punch over. The most basic move in pro wrestling. John Cena made the STF a lights out finish for a global audience. I could give a million examples.</p><p> </p><p> Wrestling fans have short memories. Did Issac Yankem kill that guys career? Did the Spirit Squad kill Dolph Ziggler? Did The Ringmaster kill Steve Austin? Did Oz kill Kevin Nash? Did Deacon Batista kill his career? The list goes on and on and on. No wrestling fan thinks back and says "oh I'm not going to cheer this guys finish" or "oh his finisher is weak now because someone kicked out of it". Wrestling fans have to be an adaptive bunch. If we stopped cheering something or someone everytime we saw them do/get involved with something stupid we would have nobody and nothing left to cheer for. You look at the situation and you say 'that was silly' and then you cheer like crazy for the guy/move/whatever the next time you see it. I could give a million examples of this. </p><p> </p><p> You're a very hyperbolic individual. Fire is bad and water is good, everything is black and white with you. Saying Big Show kicking out of a finish killed a guy's push to becoming the next John Cena is as ludicrous as people saying CM Punk is this generation's best worker.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> A lot to read, I'll sum it up quickly. Ryback was extremely over with children and actually had children cheering him over Cena at one point during his run 2 years ago. He was also the #2 merchandise seller behind Cena during his main event push. Probably the Goldberg effect of this guy being bigger then everyone else, everyone loves the big guys. Obviously Cena makes them loads of money and rightfully so, they've invested the future in him a long time ago. However to think Cena's going to continue to be shifted into the main event day after day and continuing to keep winning world titles when he's already at 14 is wrongful thinking. Not to mention he's been the same character on weekly television for over 7 years and refuses to change his gimmick. Triple H is too much of a Ric Flair mark to allow someone to share limelight with someone he grew up idolizing and he knows everyone would shit on Cena and him for it. So Cena's next reign is his last. Then he could have the whole trying to be the best of all-time storyline by trying to tie Ric Flair's record of 16 world titles before turning heel and passing the torch to whomever becomes the meal ticket of tomorrow.</p><p> </p><p> Do I worship the the words that come out of the mouth of Chris Jericho and Meltzer because they're famous in the field they're in? No, I listen to everyone's opinion if they're perceived as successful in their field. Hell I've listened to Kevin Nash talk about Vanilla midgets and how he majored in psychology in university. I've listened to Bret Hart bitch and complain about how everyone has the same match. I'll listen to everyone who's successful because If one learns how to be successful by copying someone else who's successful and these wrestlers have succeeded in one of the most cutthroat businesses in the world and man it's interesting when I catch myself manipulating my boss to give me a raise because of me hassling my fellow employee. Kevin Nash, I owe you tons despite you have zero wrestling ability. If you're not going to apply the stuff you learn by listening to these people you got serious issues and I say that to anyone willing to reply to me after this. Why do you learn these insider lingoes if your not going to use it in real life?</p><p> </p><p> Actually moves aren't over if the person is over, it's dependent on how each group of fans are trained to react to a certain move. For example, Hogan's legdrop generated massive pops around the United States for decades, however in Japan specifically against Muta in 1993. He performed his legdrop to no applause in which Muta kicked out only to be nailed by Hogan's old Japanese Finisher the Ax Bomber which generated a massive ovation. Probably because good ol' popular Gajin Stan Hansen used the Lariat as his finisher, either that or they were trained to react to a Hogan's old finisher.</p><p> </p><p> I won't argue with your Batista/Del Rio assessment. I haven't actually argued with this guy at all about it being a bad match. I just disliked the fact he said Del Rio needed to look tough by kicking out after a few moves ie: his finisher. Which you summed up perfectly. All I said is that wrestling is storytelling, not spotfests that make no sense. Midcarders get buried enough as it is but when everyone who's a main eventer is kicking out of the RKO it really makes you look weak to lose to that move. Almost like losing to a secondary finisher like The People's Elbow. I remember people going bat shit crazy when Punk lost to The Rock with that move because it was perceived a weak finish to someone who was champion for 400+ days.</p><p> </p><p> Oh and I guarantee Batista's kicking out an RKO next month, but I don't know if Orton's kicking out of a Batista Bomb. I mean who hasn't kicked out of that RKO over the last few months?</p><p> </p><p> To the wrestling fans having short memories, Sexual Chocolate chants, What?! chants. Wrestling fans remember what they want to remember.</p>

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="bigtplaystew" data-cite="bigtplaystew" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Cool. Well I'm having a great time watching WWE and the network so... sucks to be you! I can't imagine hitting up a Looney Tunes message board and telling those people how much the product no longer appeals to me. But to each their own I guess.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm sorry, I didn't knew I had to jump the Network Bandwagon on the first day just because you did. I will get it when I want to, if I want to, so excuse me for not being a sheep and spending my dollars without even listening from feedback first. Also, I have the right to have my own opinion about the product. Just because i think they could do better, doesn't mean I don't watch it or don't have the right to form an opinion. I didn't said I wasn't watching it. It would be weird if I was in this page complaining and not watching at all, even than, everyone has the right to an opinion. So yeah, good for you for jumping in the bandwagon. I'll get it when I want to, if I want to, and in the meantime I can watch PPV's and shows for free. Yeah...it so sucks to be me. <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Hive]

I can't believe how much Hogan is still over, pretty badass pop he got at RAW. Just too bad they had him mention the WWE Network 50 times in a 3 min promo.

[lazorbeak]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>On a side note it wasn't fans that killed the piledrivers it was Owen Hart breaking Steve Austin's neck with it, it was D Lo brown delivering a running powerbomb (similar to a piledriver) and breaking Droz's neck. Its an incredibly dangerous move and there is no need for risk like that. The DDT has been a regular move for two decades outside of Jake Roberts. There are countless finishes that are still over. the AA, The GTS (god I hate that move). etc. Its an easy rule. If YOU'RE over your finish is over its that simple. CM Punk could hit a 100 GTS' in one night and the move would still be over. The Big Show got a punch over. The most basic move in pro wrestling. John Cena made the STF a lights out finish for a global audience. I could give a million examples.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This is completely true. Wrestling fans are conditioned to believe that certain moves are "medium" level moves and some are finishers, and they'll believe Big Show's punch is somehow not the same thing as Khali's punch or Daniel Bryan's punch because the WWE has put in the work of putting over that move and that wrestler.</p><p> </p><p> I will say there are times when a dude's finisher means more than he does- if a guy isn't over, but he has a flashy finish, that move will likely be over before the worker gets over, but a lot of the time that ends up being a vehicle to put the wrestler over.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="delv213" data-cite="delv213" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Actually moves aren't over if the person is over, it's dependent on how each group of fans are trained to react to a certain move. For example, Hogan's legdrop generated massive pops around the United States for decades, however in Japan specifically against Muta in 1993. He performed his legdrop to no applause in which Muta kicked out only to be nailed by Hogan's old Japanese Finisher the Ax Bomber which generated a massive ovation. Probably because good ol' popular Gajin Stan Hansen used the Lariat as his finisher, either that or they were trained to react to a Hogan's old finisher.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's... the same thing. You proved Stennick's point. The crowd didn't pop Hogan's legdrop because Hogan wasn't over the same way in Japan. He (and by extension the company) didn't put in the work putting over the leg drop, so it wasn't over the same way. If the crowd doesn't see Hogan win with his finishing combination, and/or if they see other guys doing similar combinations of boot/leg drop and it doesn't win matches, then they're conditioned to believe it's not a finisher.</p>

[Jaysin]

If I could change two things about the WWE Network, I'd make it so PPVs are organized by year, not by the name. It'd be nice to go to WCW PPVs and then select 1998 and show the PPVs only from 1998. Instead, we have to go to each individual show name to look for shows from each year.

 

The other thing I'd change is the app remembering where you left off. Currently, if you exit in the middle of a show, when you come back you have to start over and fast forward to get where you were.

[Teh_Showtime]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If I could change two things about the WWE Network, I'd make it so PPVs are organized by year, not by the name. It'd be nice to go to WCW PPVs and then select 1998 and show the PPVs only from 1998. Instead, we have to go to each individual show name to look for shows from each year.<p> </p><p> The other thing I'd change is the app remembering where you left off. Currently, if you exit in the middle of a show, when you come back you have to start over and fast forward to get where you were.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You CAN look for them by year, at least on my PC</p>

[Jaysin]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You CAN look for them by year, at least on my PC</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> So you click 1998 and it shows only PPVs from that year? Because for me I have to click Starrcade, and then if I want to watch Starrcade 1998, I have to go to Starrcade on the list of WCW PPVs and then go to Starrcade 1998. </p><p> </p><p> I'm watching on PS3.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>I haven't tried anything outside of my PC except for my phone for a small bit last night but here is a pic of the layout for me</p><p> </p><p>

<span>http://i.imgur.com/tVpiskL.png</span></p>

[Jaysin]

That would be such a great feature for them to add to the PS3 app.

[djthefunkchris]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That would be such a great feature for them to add to the PS3 app.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Might have just been overlooked, probably on other apps as well. I don't recall any feedback area's anywhere yet, the type that ask "What would you like to see as an option?" type suggestion area's. Thankfully, the roster is full of people that are tech worthy and play games as well, so hopefully they will notice and say something.</p><p> </p><p> I know I am going to be watching mostly on my PC, but people that have these game units, quite a bit of the time use these same systems to play DVD's and such on their TV's, so I hope this gets resolved, as you can watch the network on your big screen TV with these game systems.</p>

[Dawn]

I'm now being able to watch normally on the PS3, and i'm watching WrestleMania 24 right now, a fantastic watch.

 

The PC was working too; but now the Media Error has returned to it. I don't understand why, but as long as the PS3 Network continues alive here, i'm happy.

[Dawn]

PC version went back when i refreshed the page after i posted here. lol

[Stennick]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="delv213" data-cite="delv213" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>To the wrestling fans having short memories, Sexual Chocolate chants, What?! chants. Wrestling fans remember what they want to remember.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> My point EXACTLY. Those Sexual Chocolate chants don't prevent Henry from being an over bad ass now do they? Do those fans look at Henry and say "this dude fathered a hand by Mae Young no way he's a bad ass" of course not. Wrestling is the ultimate what have you done for me lately. You could take Barry Horriwitz, give him a gimmick, give him a push and fans will accept it. Finishers are for the most part tied to the worker. As Lazorbeak said sometimes the finish gets over before the guy such as the Canadian Destroyer but it then puts the guy over as well. Hogan got a leg drop over, The Rock got an elbow drop over, over guys get moves over because THEY'RE over. You can't kill the overness of a finisher on accident. </p><p> </p><p> You say things like Ryback was being cheered by kids over Cena? Give me an example. You can't say that. Give me proof, find me a video of Cena and Ryback in the same ring being cheered by children. Find me a link to someone, anyone saying that Ryback was the number two merch seller during that time. Because since the Summer of Punk he's been the number 2 merch seller, Rey Mysterio is a big time merch seller, Ryback is not and has never been "the number two merchandise seller". I'd love to see a link to anyone stating that this was the case. Same thing with kids cheering Cena over Ryback. You can tell Cena has the kids on his side because they are what gives him his pop when his music hits to drawn out the dislike of the guys our age. Did you poll the children before shows "who are you cheering for Ryback or Cena?". Ryback was over because they gave him a winning streak. Thats how Goldberg got over, thats how Wrath got over in 98. A winning streak is the easiset way in in wrestling to get someone over. Thats how you get EVERYONE over is by winning, so if you ALWAYS win then it stands to reason you'll be over. Like Cornette said though there is no good way to end a winning streak and once you do what do you do from there? Its not like Ryback was good at cutting promos (he's still not) and its not like he's that amazing in the ring. Ryback was a big guy, with an explosive offense, that had a winning streak. You take away his winning streak and he's on the same level as half the guys on the roster without the skills to "rise above". Ryback was never going to be the guy.</p><p> </p><p> You're mistaking your personal viewpoints and apparently Chris Jericho calling this guy the next Cena? Did Jericho really call Ryback the next Cena? If thats the case Chris must have came from another night on the town with Hurricane Helms. Either way its the trap the "IWC" falls into. "I don't like this therefore I'm going to project that there is a majority of people out there that don't like this" or even the opposite "this is what I like so I'm projecting that it was over and that everyone else liked it" even if thats not the case. Your view on finishers is completely askew and unless you can give me VIDEO evidence of fans SPECIFICALLY not caring about an over guys finisher then as far as I'm concerned its an anomaly at best. </p><p> </p><p> Punk is as close as they have come to someone genuinely being as over as Cena. The problem with that is there is SO much that goes with being "the guy" such as Hogan, Cena, etc. The charity events, the main stream stuff, the make a wish stuff, the media appearances. You're on the road twice as much as the rest of the roster. Punk has stated multiple times how much he doesn't enjoy traveling anymore. And he's been noted multiple times as being difficult to deal with backstage and he's FAR from a company guy. Cena will shovel manure down your throat and smile while doing it. Like it or not THATS a company guy. The interesting thing is that even though Cena's injury is a work he's not going to last forever and right now I don't see who the next "guy" is. Of course I would have said the same thing in 2002 a year before Cena blew up.</p>

[lazorbeak]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You say things like Ryback was being cheered by kids over Cena? Give me an example. You can't say that. Give me proof, find me a video of Cena and Ryback in the same ring being cheered by children. Find me a link to someone, anyone saying that Ryback was the number two merch seller during that time. Because since the Summer of Punk he's been the number 2 merch seller, Rey Mysterio is a big time merch seller, Ryback is not and has never been "the number two merchandise seller". I'd love to see a link to anyone stating that this was the case. Same thing with kids cheering Cena over Ryback. You can tell Cena has the kids on his side because they are what gives him his pop when his music hits to drawn out the dislike of the guys our age. Did you poll the children before shows "who are you cheering for Ryback or Cena?". Ryback was over because they gave him a winning streak. Thats how Goldberg got over, thats how Wrath got over in 98. A winning streak is the easiset way in in wrestling to get someone over. Thats how you get EVERYONE over is by winning, so if you ALWAYS win then it stands to reason you'll be over. Like Cornette said though there is no good way to end a winning streak and once you do what do you do from there? Its not like Ryback was good at cutting promos (he's still not) and its not like he's that amazing in the ring. Ryback was a big guy, with an explosive offense, that had a winning streak. You take away his winning streak and he's on the same level as half the guys on the roster without the skills to "rise above". Ryback was never going to be the guy.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I googled it and the only source I can find is Ryback saying it, which was immediately followed by everyone saying "what about Punk, Rock, and Daniel Bryan?" Since Bryan already had the basic "yes" shirt by then.</p><p> </p><p> I do think Ryback is a bit underrated in the mic department, but I don't blame the company for feeding him (pun intended) to Cena for a couple of months. My only disappointment was that it meant Mark Henry had a briefer feud with Cena, and Henry's better on the mic (I loved his phony retirement) and generally steadier than Ryback, who can be more hit or miss.</p><p> </p><p> Also, unrelated, but why does everybody bleed when they wrestle Big E? Is he just working super stiff?</p>

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I googled it and the only source I can find is Ryback saying it, which was immediately followed by everyone saying "what about Punk, Rock, and Daniel Bryan?" Since Bryan already had the basic "yes" shirt by then.<p> </p><p> I do think Ryback is a bit underrated in the mic department, but I don't blame the company for feeding him (pun intended) to Cena for a couple of months. My only disappointment was that it meant Mark Henry had a briefer feud with Cena, and Henry's better on the mic (I loved his phony retirement) and generally steadier than Ryback, who can be more hit or miss.</p><p> </p><p> Also, unrelated, but why does everybody bleed when they wrestle Big E?<strong> Is he just working super stiff?</strong></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yes.</p>

[rd_dbacks01]

I gotta admit that I am really liking having the WWE Network right now. The on demand stuff sometimes stops on me but the live stuff is pretty entertaining so far.

[lazorbeak]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="shawn michaels 82" data-cite="shawn michaels 82" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yes.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I thought that might be the case. I really liked his match with Swagger, though. I didn't understand why it was an opener since I figured no one would be over, but they just suplexed each other to death all match and it was pretty great (until the finish).</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I thought that might be the case. I really liked his match with Swagger, though. I didn't understand why it was an opener since I figured no one would be over, but they just suplexed each other to death all match and it was pretty great (until the finish).</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It was the opener because that is what midcard titles have been doing for decades. It set the bar for a good show and got it off on the right foot.</p><p> </p><p> Swagger is criminally underrated</p>

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I thought that might be the case. I really liked his match with Swagger, though. I didn't understand why it was an opener since I figured no one would be over, but they just suplexed each other to death all match and it was pretty great (until the finish).</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't really see what the E sees in the man. I only see dozens of Shoulder Tackles and Clotheslines, and the lack of synchronization. Swagger had a decent match with him, not good IMO. Cesaro had a good match with him. He was able to better protect him and both came out looking good. And they still had time to develop the Real American's incoming split. Big E hasn't impressed me at all yet and to make things worst, he's super stiff and a bit dangerous with some moves.</p><p> </p><p> Edit: And yes: "Swagger is criminally underrated," as Show said and well.</p>

[lazorbeak]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It was the opener because that is what midcard titles have been doing for decades. It set the bar for a good show and got it off on the right foot.<p> </p><p> Swagger is criminally underrated</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I understand the purpose of midcard titles, but the purpose of <em>openers</em> is to get the crowd fired up for the rest of the show. Which is why you usually see tag matches, multi-man matches, or dynamic babyface matches (Rey, Kofi, etc.). Trusting Big E and Swagger with the opening spot actually does mean something, since in general, it means you're setting the tone for the show, and neither guy has been in that position much lately, but they delivered. </p><p> </p><p> I agree that Swagger's underrated. It's a shame his tag partner is even better. If you dropped Jack Swagger through a time warp into WCW pre-1996, there's no way he's not a top guy. He's huge, he's a great worker, he just suffers from comparisons to slightly more dynamic huge guys like Lesnar and being a bit limited on the mic.</p>

[DaMegaFish]

<p>Hopefully the On Demand starts working better on WWE Network, last night I watched the opening match from Bash At The Beach 96 between Rey and Psychosis and my goodness, it was so good. As a kid, I liked the cruisers in WCW but I never realized how good they really were. Now I can't wait to watch more WCW and really watch a lot more of the under card matches.</p><p> </p><p>

That being said, until then, the just regular broadcasting on the Network is decent enough. Legends Of Wrestling is great, watching Piper, and Michael Hayes light cigars up as they are talking wrestling with Mene Gene, DDP and JR. Goodness this is great.</p><p> </p><p>

Edit- I know the Legends Of Wrestling isn't really anything new, but I've never watched it, so for me its a nice fresh content.</p>

[Dawn]

Yeah, live content is really clean here, but the on demand content just stops a lot.

[jbergey_2005]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Smasher1311" data-cite="Smasher1311" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah, live content is really clean here, but the on demand content just stops a lot.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Same problem. I have very few buffer stops during the live shows however trying to watch anything else is too frustrating to try.</p>

[delv213]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>My point EXACTLY. Those Sexual Chocolate chants don't prevent Henry from being an over bad ass now do they? Do those fans look at Henry and say "this dude fathered a hand by Mae Young no way he's a bad ass" of course not. Wrestling is the ultimate what have you done for me lately. You could take Barry Horriwitz, give him a gimmick, give him a push and fans will accept it. Finishers are for the most part tied to the worker. As Lazorbeak said sometimes the finish gets over before the guy such as the Canadian Destroyer but it then puts the guy over as well. Hogan got a leg drop over, The Rock got an elbow drop over, over guys get moves over because THEY'RE over. You can't kill the overness of a finisher on accident. <p> </p><p> You say things like Ryback was being cheered by kids over Cena? Give me an example. You can't say that. Give me proof, find me a video of Cena and Ryback in the same ring being cheered by children. Find me a link to someone, anyone saying that Ryback was the number two merch seller during that time. Because since the Summer of Punk he's been the number 2 merch seller, Rey Mysterio is a big time merch seller, Ryback is not and has never been "the number two merchandise seller". I'd love to see a link to anyone stating that this was the case. Same thing with kids cheering Cena over Ryback. You can tell Cena has the kids on his side because they are what gives him his pop when his music hits to drawn out the dislike of the guys our age. Did you poll the children before shows "who are you cheering for Ryback or Cena?". Ryback was over because they gave him a winning streak. Thats how Goldberg got over, thats how Wrath got over in 98. A winning streak is the easiset way in in wrestling to get someone over. Thats how you get EVERYONE over is by winning, so if you ALWAYS win then it stands to reason you'll be over. Like Cornette said though there is no good way to end a winning streak and once you do what do you do from there? Its not like Ryback was good at cutting promos (he's still not) and its not like he's that amazing in the ring. Ryback was a big guy, with an explosive offense, that had a winning streak. You take away his winning streak and he's on the same level as half the guys on the roster without the skills to "rise above". Ryback was never going to be the guy.</p><p> </p><p> You're mistaking your personal viewpoints and apparently Chris Jericho calling this guy the next Cena? Did Jericho really call Ryback the next Cena? If thats the case Chris must have came from another night on the town with Hurricane Helms. Either way its the trap the "IWC" falls into. "I don't like this therefore I'm going to project that there is a majority of people out there that don't like this" or even the opposite "this is what I like so I'm projecting that it was over and that everyone else liked it" even if thats not the case. Your view on finishers is completely askew and unless you can give me VIDEO evidence of fans SPECIFICALLY not caring about an over guys finisher then as far as I'm concerned its an anomaly at best. </p><p> </p><p> Punk is as close as they have come to someone genuinely being as over as Cena. The problem with that is there is SO much that goes with being "the guy" such as Hogan, Cena, etc. The charity events, the main stream stuff, the make a wish stuff, the media appearances. You're on the road twice as much as the rest of the roster. Punk has stated multiple times how much he doesn't enjoy traveling anymore. And he's been noted multiple times as being difficult to deal with backstage and he's FAR from a company guy. Cena will shovel manure down your throat and smile while doing it. Like it or not THATS a company guy. The interesting thing is that even though Cena's injury is a work he's not going to last forever and right now I don't see who the next "guy" is. Of course I would have said the same thing in 2002 a year before Cena blew up.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Ryback said he was #2 in merchandise sales in a ton of interviews during his main event run, the guy would've got a ton of heat if he was lying. Also I'm pretty sure the company tells you what spot you finish for merchandise sales based on the paycheck that they get for merchandise sales. For the year of 2012, Punk definitely outsold Ryback. </p><p> </p><p> <a href="http://www.wzronline.com/wrestling-news/ryback-speaks-on-goldberg-chants-wrestlemania-more.html" rel="external nofollow">http://www.wzronline.com/wrestling-news/ryback-speaks-on-goldberg-chants-wrestlemania-more.html</a></p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> " always stayed positive and knew when my time would come it would be the right time. I told myself when I’m going to hit, I’m going to hit big and strike hard. We are coming up on a year and it’s arguably one of the biggest years anyone has ever had. Merchandise wise I’m right behind John Cena. My goal is to pass John and get to be the number one position in the company. I’m sure he doesn’t like hearing that but I believe I’m the guy to do it.”</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't even like Ryback. Now remember both are babyfaces and the crowd was clearly a fan of Cena's after he pinned Punk.</p><p> Ryback getting cheered over Cena: Feed Me More Chants with kids joining in with adults. Not hard to believe he was #2 during this time.</p><p> </p><div class="ipsEmbeddedVideo"><div><iframe width="200" height="113" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/R7eR5XdMx40?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" title="John Cena vs. CM Punk: Raw, Nov. 12, 2012"></iframe></div></div><p> </p><p> As for the finisher bit, does nobody remember everyone going bat shit crazy over Punk losing to The People's Elbow? People were furious that he lost to his B-Move. And whatever I don't care, people are just deflecting my point about the overused 2-3 finishers bit that every main eventer has to go through to be beaten but a midcarder looks like a jobber because he can't kickout of 1. And how in the 90's wrestlers used Piledrivers and DDT's to simulate the same reaction people used to give to people kicking out of those moves instead of telling a story of why they're using that move.</p><p> </p><p> Also please no more replies to the subject of Ryback, I don't want to defend him because I don't even like him, however it's nearly impossible to over look the fact he was very over before his nonsensical loses on PPV's happened.</p>

[dvdWarrior]

<p>Seems I'm gonna be just a tad slow on the whole getting WWE NEtwork thing... unavoidable circumstances, don't ya know. </p><p> </p><p>

Can anyone tell me, do they have have any of the TV shows available on there? Like Nitros, Thunders, SmackDowns!, and (very hopefully) Clashes of Champions and Saturday Nighs' Main Events?</p><p> </p><p>

I figure they might, but I can't help but wonder.</p><p> </p><p>

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