The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Eidenhoek]

/walks in wearing his Cena merch.

 

So what's new?

 

*****cat, WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA

[djthefunkchris]

I never said that. The only one i said that was marking for Cena was Showtime, and that was a joke. I0m affraid y'all got me wrong. If that was the case i would be angry and screaming and God knows what else. Most of you spent the debate not even understanding some of my points of view...and i really don't care. I mean...i don't like Cena's work, but the fact that he is where he is doesn't take away my good night of sleep. Seriously... you're the ones who at one point told, with other words, that i had to accept Cena's greatness. I don't have to accept squat. I also don't want you to accept he's evil. Hell, i don't even see him as evil. So stop talking about me as the guy who dismisses their opinions as fanboys. I care for there opinions as much as they care fore mine. Wich is nothing. But at least i don't say "YOu have to accept that he is the worst of all times". Dude, if you were a spectator, keep beeing one. I'm losing my patiente with the false judgement that has been done of me. You spent the last 24 hours criticizing me withou even taking some time to think and ask: "Wait a minute, afterall, having in mind that you aren't even american or english, and your native language is not english, can you try and explain us what you really think about the man?"

 

I'm done with this conversation. SOme of you asked for facts, and acused me of not showing mine, when i did, no one talked about them. Some of you speak in a arrogant and patronizing way, because you truly think you are actually gurus of pro wrestling. (I don't mean you effin rule )

 

Bottom line: None of us will change our minds, because we all have educated opinions about the subject. (YEs, educated. I'm not a 6 year old who says he doesn't like just because, as the rest of you ain't either)

 

I'm done with this debate. Cena isn't even liked by the crowd that pays his promotions bills, as most of them boo him. So yes, someone else could do better or at least the same with no boos. I rest my case. I'm not going to waste my time with someone like John Cena. I'd like to continue using this thread to it's original purpose, so please don't any of you speak anything else about the freakin debate, if you please.

 

Thank you!

 

Did you miss read the part of not talking about it? I never said super anything. If i did, i'm sure it was taken out of context or i was probably joking. And my conversation with showtime about him beeing Cena's fan was a joke between two "co-workers". I haven't seen him complaining, so stop talking for the man.

 

Seriously...End of conversation!

 

Maybe this time people will read it. We all know that the best way of ending is is ENDING it now! OR else A will always want to give his final answer to B and so on. I have nothing against any of you, i actually had a fun time with the debate, though i was seriously missunderstood, but it's time to end it. So please, end it.

 

Ps: I know what indifferent means...you might want to look up in the diccionary the meaning of the word: OVER.

 

Fui!

 

I wouldn't let anyone get under your skin, I think I actually figured what you meant in comparison to what you said.

 

For example: You don't dislike John Cena the person... You dislike his character and gimmick, and feel it's being shoved down your throat. Your tired of his tired act, so to speak.

 

You don't really care what his work-rate is. You personally are just tired of him, or at least his character.

 

Your not alone...

 

The only thing I'm not sure about is when you say everyone that boo's him feels the same as you do, which I don't think is actually true. I mean, I think some do, but I think some just boo him because it's the "cool" thing to do at times, and lately doesn't seem to be as many as say two years ago.

 

I figured these things out from the different things said, between what you mean, what you meant, and what you said etc... At least I think I got you.

 

This isn't to try and start the debate up or anything, just wanted to show you that some of us are trying to figure out exactly what you mean, especially after informing us that this is a second (perhaps a third) language for you. I wasn't here (and many other's) to ask you the right questions, even if we knew what the right questions were, because of timing.

 

The only thing I would suggest (with translation problems), is to at least acknowledge the points you do see other's making, and maybe they will try harder to get your points in the future.

 

There are plain old Cena Hater's though, and I think that's what your being labled as by some here, because of the translation problems, and the lack of acknowledging what you do understand to be true... For example, the Height/Weight thing, was just to show that there is only 15 pounds and no height difference between HBK and John Cena. This was brought up to counter a point about HBK being an exception to the rule, yet Cena not being an exception to the rule, of Vince liking Big guys (John Cena and HBK are bassically the same size). You missed that point when it was first brought up, and dismissed it as not mattering, after bringing it up in the first place. Translation problem I figure, but I'm afraid you still didn't get why it was being brought up as a fact, so I figured I would point that out to you just in case.

[djthefunkchris]

I predict CM Punk win's at Money in the Bank.

 

I also predict the Money in the Bank winner challenges him.

 

I predict CM Punk will win that match as well.

 

That's my prediction for this.

[Self]

I predict CM Punk win's at Money in the Bank.

 

I also predict the Money in the Bank winner challenges him.

 

I predict CM Punk will win that match as well.

 

That's my prediction for this.

 

This is what I want to happen. Then I want Punk to tour the indies, holding aloft the beating heart of WWE, a triumphant hero.

[Fantabulous]

I'm not a fan of Cena; I don't hate the guy (yet) but his act has worn thin with me and I think it's time to change something up. But the guy shifts merchandise like crazy, so there is clearly a portion of the fanbase that still adores him enough to shell out money for his likeness. But hey, we don't need facts like that here. Back to bringing out the staves and pitchforks.

[Nathers7]

Punk winning and the Mitb being cashed in right after would've worked but once you read the spoilers for both Raw and Smackdown you realise it won't unless they have the mitb winner on the Raw side lose. If there's going to be a cash in at the PPV it will be after or before Christian-Orton in my opinion anyway.

[shawn michaels]

Did Cena kick your puppy as a boy or something dude? You seem to just expell this underlining hatred for the dude. Everything you say about the guy just comes across as extreme dislike. I guess it used to bug me a bit how you would loudly proclaim him being so awful but now I think its kinda cute now. I almost want to mail you the Word Life DVD with a video camera to capture your expression the moment you saw it was in fact the Word Life DVD.

 

Anyway haters goin hate. I'm a Cena fan, I wouldn't say I'm a super fan of anybody. I don't buy the pay per views, I've never bought a single DVD or t shirt. However I mostly enjoy the guys promos, I think he's awesome for business and Cena from 03 is one of my favorite wrestling characters.

 

You know, i always saw you as someone that actually knows what tey're saying and that never resources to the ignorance level embeded on that type of irony....like you just did. But don't, not until i do the same with you, wich i didn't.

 

I wouldn't let anyone get under your skin, I think I actually figured what you meant in comparison to what you said.

 

For example: You don't dislike John Cena the person... You dislike his character and gimmick, and feel it's being shoved down your throat. Your tired of his tired act, so to speak.

 

You don't really care what his work-rate is. You personally are just tired of him, or at least his character.

 

Your not alone...

 

The only thing I'm not sure about is when you say everyone that boo's him feels the same as you do, which I don't think is actually true. I mean, I think some do, but I think some just boo him because it's the "cool" thing to do at times, and lately doesn't seem to be as many as say two years ago.

 

I figured these things out from the different things said, between what you mean, what you meant, and what you said etc... At least I think I got you.

 

This isn't to try and start the debate up or anything, just wanted to show you that some of us are trying to figure out exactly what you mean, especially after informing us that this is a second (perhaps a third) language for you. I wasn't here (and many other's) to ask you the right questions, even if we knew what the right questions were, because of timing.

 

The only thing I would suggest (with translation problems), is to at least acknowledge the points you do see other's making, and maybe they will try harder to get your points in the future.

 

There are plain old Cena Hater's though, and I think that's what your being labled as by some here, because of the translation problems, and the lack of acknowledging what you do understand to be true... For example, the Height/Weight thing, was just to show that there is only 15 pounds and no height difference between HBK and John Cena. This was brought up to counter a point about HBK being an exception to the rule, yet Cena not being an exception to the rule, of Vince liking Big guys (John Cena and HBK are bassically the same size). You missed that point when it was first brought up, and dismissed it as not mattering, after bringing it up in the first place. Translation problem I figure, but I'm afraid you still didn't get why it was being brought up as a fact, so I figured I would point that out to you just in case.

 

I would never let these people get under my skin. Yeah, we can say that you understood way more than them. THe weight thing wasn 't a dismissal per say, i jut didn't understood what they mean't then. But when i did, i listed a few examples of the big guys beeing pushed. Anyway, no point in keeping this debate. But i at least did in a decen way. Some just decided to try mock or label me as this or that. That is pretty lamme and ignorant. But hey, can't say the same about you. Thanks for understanding some of my points of view.

[lazorbeak]

I would never let these people get under my skin. Yeah, we can say that you understood way more than them. THe weight thing wasn 't a dismissal per say, i jut didn't understood what they mean't then. But when i did, i listed a few examples of the big guys beeing pushed.

 

And it was completely irrelevant, since the size issue was brought up to show how ridiculous it was to say Cena was pushed because Vince likes big guys. But that's not the reason Cena was pushed, as evidenced by his relative lack of size.

[djthefunkchris]

And it was completely irrelevant, since the size issue was brought up to show how ridiculous it was to say Cena was pushed because Vince likes big guys. But that's not the reason Cena was pushed, as evidenced by his relative lack of size.

 

He brought up other example's, like Andre and Hulk Hogan.

 

Everyone knows that Vince like's to push big guys, like Khali for example.

 

He's really not trying to sound the way he sounds. I'm one of the first to do as everyone did here: Point out some facts when faced with non-facts, but his points are really alot tamer then he meant. I really do think the language barrier is a problem for him, he's not using the right words in quite a few cases is all.

[shawn michaels]

He brought up other example's, like Andre and Hulk Hogan.

 

Everyone knows that Vince like's to push big guys, like Khali for example.

 

He's really not trying to sound the way he sounds. I'm one of the first to do as everyone did here: Point out some facts when faced with non-facts, but his points are really alot tamer then he meant. I really do think the language barrier is a problem for him, he's not using the right words in quite a few cases is all.

 

Thank you. Someone beeing reasonable here, for a change.

[lazorbeak]

He brought up other example's, like Andre and Hulk Hogan.

 

Everyone knows that Vince like's to push big guys, like Khali for example.

 

He's really not trying to sound the way he sounds. I'm one of the first to do as everyone did here: Point out some facts when faced with non-facts, but his points are really alot tamer then he meant. I really do think the language barrier is a problem for him, he's not using the right words in quite a few cases is all.

 

Yes, but again, it's a big "so what," since the fact that any favoring of big guys has absolutely nothing to do with anything anyone was talking about. I understand he's struggling to communicate based on his total lack of understanding of what people were saying to him, but it doesn't suddenly make irrelevant statements relevant. It's like pointing out that "everybody knows" that Hulk Hogan was a politician to prove that John Cena's a politician. It just doesn't connect logically at all.

[crownsy]

As a simple watcher of this debate I have to say that your whole "anyone who disagrees with me is a super Cena fan" is getting pretty annoying. You are essentially dismissing their opinions as fanboy love when your opinions, by that reasoning, could be dismissed as Cena-Hate.

 

This. I am no Cena fan, but your completely illogical and non-reality based debating style didn't really prove anything.

 

You just sprouted the traditional anti-cena rant, parts of which i can certainly get behind, then refused to respond to any logical argument with anything other than "Your a cena mark"

 

As someone put it, you're entitled to your opinion, but i'm also entitled to dismiss it as no more compelling than"cena sucks, i rulezzs!" since you won't engage anyone in debate beyond "im right, your wrong, and facts are for losers who don't agree with me!"

[djthefunkchris]

This is what I want to happen. Then I want Punk to tour the indies, holding aloft the beating heart of WWE, a triumphant hero.

 

I really can't say it will go that far. I will repeat what I said earlier in the thread: I believe him to already have an agreement going, or almost finalized.... Meaning, I don't think CM Punk is going anywhere, outside of a break for a little bit.

[Teh_Showtime]

What if he came back and won the RR . He wouldnt go after Cena though or would he?

[crownsy]

I really can't say it will go that far. I will repeat what I said earlier in the thread: I believe him to already have an agreement going, or almost finalized.... Meaning, I don't think CM Punk is going anywhere, outside of a break for a little bit.

 

If i could fantasy book it, I'd have him win and try to leave, then have the GM forced to reveal himself to point out to punk that his contract stipulates that he must defend the title once a month until he is no longer champ. (heels never read the fine print)

 

In a perfect world, i would have an agreement in place with ROH (who they seem to like, or at least, not fear as a competitor) to film him at those events cutting promo's about how he has to defend the belt at the next PPV, how he's held hostage by WWE's lawyers, ect and show those on raw.

 

Have him show up on WWE tv in street clothes and cut promo's but refuse to wrestle since he only has to defend once a month.

 

Then you can do whatever from there. Have cena save the company strap at SS, have punk keep it for a bit, turn punk face by having vince/ the GM keep stacking the deck and him overcoming the odds (i wouldn't do that one) ect.

 

 

But, Im not holding out hope. I think they'll balk, like they always do, at taking a risk and possably damaging the cash cow that is John Cena. I predict Cena retains in a clean win and they nutuer another good storyline for the sake of the status qou

[djthefunkchris]

What if he came back and won the RR . He wouldnt go after Cena though or would he?

 

Finding out more information about him... I found an interview with a few of ex-writers for WWE, and one of the stories they told about CM Punk made me like him even more.

 

The writer was writing for the "Straight Edge" society thing (doesn't work there anymore). They had ones that were around for the Nexus and such as well, but this story stuck out to me.

 

He said at the beginning Punk would be distant, and hard to work with. He's just say, "Ok, what do you want me to say?" and he would give it to Punk, and Punk would give it back a little while later saying "Here, this is what I'm saying." and it would be in some cases alot different. The writer would take it to Vince and say This is what Punk's going to say. Vince would then say "This has to be changed, this isn't going to be said" etc. He would then go to Punk and say "This has to be changed" and Punk would say "I'm not changing anything." then proceed to go out and say his own stuff. He said Punk was passionate about the bussiness, and was completely aware of everything, and how it would impact his character and other characters. In the middle of working with him, and of course the end, he said as they got to know each other Punk would work with him alot more. He said it's not unnusual for this to happen in most places of work, as it takes time to develop trust and friendship, but he has had people that were thought of to be higher up, that would just take whatever they were told to say and do it.

 

EDIT: The reason I quoted your post, is because I don't see Punk staying away that long. I do see him possibly winning the Rumble, if he's not champion at that time. That would put a rope in the Cena vs. The Rock thing for Wrestlemania, and would be fun to watch the story unfold. Wouldn't be surprised if The Rock would rather feud with CM Punk instead of John Cena. I remember him saying that he bassically wasn't interested in working with John Cena in the past, which with him could have been just talk. I know people like Stone Cold and even Roddy Piper has talked about how much fun they think it would be to work a program with Punk though. Your post I believe could happen, but I think Punk will be active at that time already.

 

On that note though, wouldn't it be fun to have The Rock win while CM Punk has the title, as a surprise entry? That would put some buzz going around.

[djthefunkchris]

If i could fantasy book it, I'd have him win and try to leave, then have the GM forced to reveal himself to point out to punk that his contract stipulates that he must defend the title once a month until he is no longer champ. (heels never read the fine print)

 

In a perfect world, i would have an agreement in place with ROH (who they seem to like, or at least, not fear as a competitor) to film him at those events cutting promo's about how he has to defend the belt at the next PPV, how he's held hostage by WWE's lawyers, ect and show those on raw.

 

Have him show up on WWE tv in street clothes and cut promo's but refuse to wrestle since he only has to defend once a month.

 

Then you can do whatever from there. Have cena save the company strap at SS, have punk keep it for a bit, turn punk face by having vince/ the GM keep stacking the deck and him overcoming the odds (i wouldn't do that one) ect.

 

 

But, Im not holding out hope. I think they'll balk, like they always do, at taking a risk and possably damaging the cash cow that is John Cena. I predict Cena retains in a clean win and they nutuer another good storyline for the sake of the status qou

 

The obvious answer, at least to me, is have Cena defend Punk. Punk and Cena vs. the Establishment.... talk is "How did Punk get Cena to join him?"

 

Cena being the "All for what is right, at all costs" joining Punk's fight against the "Brass" upstairs.

[shawn michaels]

This. I am no Cena fan, but your completely illogical and non-reality based debating style didn't really prove anything.

 

You just sprouted the traditional anti-cena rant, parts of which i can certainly get behind, then refused to respond to any logical argument with anything other than "Your a cena mark"

 

As someone put it, you're entitled to your opinion, but i'm also entitled to dismiss it as no more compelling than"cena sucks, i rulezzs!" since you won't engage anyone in debate beyond "im right, your wrong, and facts are for losers who don't agree with me!"

 

I'm available to debate and counter your facts any time. Though i don't think it would do a lot for the thread. But still, i'm available.

 

 

Yes, but again, it's a big "so what," since the fact that any favoring of big guys has absolutely nothing to do with anything anyone was talking about. I understand he's struggling to communicate based on his total lack of understanding of what people were saying to him, but it doesn't suddenly make irrelevant statements relevant. It's like pointing out that "everybody knows" that Hulk Hogan was a politician to prove that John Cena's a politician. It just doesn't connect logically at all.

 

Funny thing is that if this was a verbal debate we would get along fine. My spoken eglish is actually very good. My written english used to earn the A grades, but years passed and it got rusty. Time will amend it, i hope.

Anyway, i don't really remember how i introduced the whole "Vince likes to push big guys" argument to the debate (Though i'm aware i did it) but althouh John Cena is no Andre The Giant, Big show, and so on, his physical build (as a guy capable of lifting the big show, something we wouldn't see Michaels do) still manages to get in the big guy category. In my opinion at least. And even if you don't want to consider Cena as a big guy, fine, than you can also consider it irrelevant to the debate, but Vince does love to push the big guys, that's for sure. I'm certain i'm not the only one thinking this.

[Hive]

Anyway, i don't really remember how i introduced the whole "Vince likes to push big guys" argument to the debate (Though i'm aware i did it) but althouh John Cena is no Andre The Giant, Big show, and so on, his physical build (as a guy capable of lifting the big show, something we wouldn't see Michaels do) still manages to get in the big guy category. In my opinion at least. And even if you don't want to consider Cena as a big guy, fine, than you can also consider it irrelevant to the debate, but Vince does love to push the big guys, that's for sure. I'm certain i'm not the only one thinking this.

 

I, for one, completely agree with you that even though the weight difference between HBK and Cena was pointed out to be insignificant, Cena *looks* bigger and bulkier than HBK and certainly has more of a "big guy look" overall. He looks stronger and more badass and he looks far more muscular.

[shawn michaels]

I, for one, completely agree with you that even though the weight difference between HBK and Cena was pointed out to be insignificant, Cena *looks* bigger and bulkier than HBK and certainly has more of a "big guy look" overall. He looks stronger and more badass and he looks far more muscular.

 

Exactly. His build makes him "eligible" to the type of workers that vince has proven over the years that he likes to push.

[Fantabulous]

Some sharp and incisive commentary going on here.

[djthefunkchris]

It's not just Vince though, outside of perhaps the modern age itself... But traditionally Big Guys have always been pushed because it's alot easier to get someone like that over. I can't help to feel sometimes it's a bit of lazyness, but in reality it's just hard for someone to look at someone like Sin Cara or Rey Mysterio (for example), and then look at someone like John Cena... and go "That guys going to kick Cena's butt!" IF it were a fight in real life, for example, most of us would put our money on Cena. You have to build these guys to make a believable match that in the right circumstance's, if things go their way (even if luck is involved), they could indeed kick someone like Cena's (using him as a generic muscular wrestling guy, not litterally saying Cena... I could have used Batista, The Rock, etc...) butt. This is harder to do then grabbing someone that's 7'+ and putting them in the ring with someone almost a foot shorter. Big show versus Miz is easy to believe that Big Show would win. Vice versa, you have to put in some believable (ring psychology as well) spots in the match, to have Miz bring it over to his level (He's chopping the Giant down!).

 

To me, it's actually smart booking, till you get guys talented enough to get a crowd to "believe" they can do it (Like Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan...). It's really hard to make a guy like me believe that doing flips and other acrobatics in the ring is going to beat the Big Show (for example)... or anyone for that matter. However, you mix high spots that make sense (where the guy doesn't have to wait on the ground for what seems like a minute), where it gets them out of trouble (By flipping over the guy trying to slam them/counter move), with some good technical skills (again, countering an otherwise hold or punch that should flatten them), I can suspend my belief.

 

I'm the size of Cena (for example, actually a little bigger/not ripped like him, but well built). I know what I'm capable of in a "real" fight. Smaller guys get mad when I say this, but all you average or bigger guys know what I'm talking about (Average being at LEAST 5' 10'', 200 lbs). When your dealing with a small guy, in a fight... Your conscious of the fact he's small, and it's almost like your fighting a girl... Unless your just really really mad at them, your trying as much not to hurt them as you are trying to keep them from hurting you (which is where we can lose it sometimes... if they get a good punch in that hurts, lol). Sometimes you don't have a choice, but the fact of the matter is, your in a lose/lose situation where most people around are concerned... "How could you hurt him, your twice his size!" and if they don't give up and you decide to end the fight without hurting him, everyone is like "How could you let a little guy beat you?" No different then fighting a girl... "How could you let a girl beat you?" compared to "How could you hurt her, she's a girl!"

 

Little guys don't understand that till I compare them to someone that would be compatible size to me and him... How would you feel about beating up a 12 year old? Same difference in almost everything, strength, size, etc. You can't possibly tell me you would hit a girl (for example), just to prove you can beat them up. I feel the same way if someone around 5'9", and under 190lbs tries to start a fight with me. There is nothing for me to prove... the hardest thing I have in a fight like that, is trying NOT to hurt them, and trying NOT to look like a bully. Your not going to hit a 12 year old reguardless, but lets say that's a 22 year old, but the same size as a 12 year old.... When someone is a half a foot shorter, or you have over 100 pounds on someone (not talking fat here), your uncomfortable hurting someone that much smaller then you. At least I am.

 

This is why it's so easy to get big guys over. Realistically, two guys on the same level of skill (in fighting), one with a 100 pound advantage and strength advantage, has definately got the upper hand, no matter how you slice it. You have to build up the smaller guy to be percieved as a better fighter/wrestler, or what have you.

 

If I were a small guy, I probably would be mad about the way smaller guys get treated in wrestling as well, since it's not "real"... The problem with it is that it's supposed to at least appear real, and realistically, half-pints aren't beating up men that look like a miniature incredible Hulk.

[shawn michaels]

It's not just Vince though, outside of perhaps the modern age itself... But traditionally Big Guys have always been pushed because it's alot easier to get someone like that over. I can't help to feel sometimes it's a bit of lazyness, but in reality it's just hard for someone to look at someone like Sin Cara or Rey Mysterio (for example), and then look at someone like John Cena... and go "That guys going to kick Cena's butt!" IF it were a fight in real life, for example, most of us would put our money on Cena. You have to build these guys to make a believable match that in the right circumstance's, if things go their way (even if luck is involved), they could indeed kick someone like Cena's (using him as a generic muscular wrestling guy, not litterally saying Cena... I could have used Batista, The Rock, etc...) butt. This is harder to do then grabbing someone that's 7'+ and putting them in the ring with someone almost a foot shorter. Big show versus Miz is easy to believe that Big Show would win. Vice versa, you have to put in some believable (ring psychology as well) spots in the match, to have Miz bring it over to his level (He's chopping the Giant down!).

 

To me, it's actually smart booking, till you get guys talented enough to get a crowd to "believe" they can do it (Like Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan...). It's really hard to make a guy like me believe that doing flips and other acrobatics in the ring is going to beat the Big Show (for example)... or anyone for that matter. However, you mix high spots that make sense (where the guy doesn't have to wait on the ground for what seems like a minute), where it gets them out of trouble (By flipping over the guy trying to slam them/counter move), with some good technical skills (again, countering an otherwise hold or punch that should flatten them), I can suspend my belief.

 

I'm the size of Cena (for example, actually a little bigger/not ripped like him, but well built). I know what I'm capable of in a "real" fight. Smaller guys get mad when I say this, but all you average or bigger guys know what I'm talking about (Average being at LEAST 5' 10'', 200 lbs). When your dealing with a small guy, in a fight... Your conscious of the fact he's small, and it's almost like your fighting a girl... Unless your just really really mad at them, your trying as much not to hurt them as you are trying to keep them from hurting you (which is where we can lose it sometimes... if they get a good punch in that hurts, lol). Sometimes you don't have a choice, but the fact of the matter is, your in a lose/lose situation where most people around are concerned... "How could you hurt him, your twice his size!" and if they don't give up and you decide to end the fight without hurting him, everyone is like "How could you let a little guy beat you?" No different then fighting a girl... "How could you let a girl beat you?" compared to "How could you hurt her, she's a girl!"

 

Little guys don't understand that till I compare them to someone that would be compatible size to me and him... How would you feel about beating up a 12 year old? Same difference in almost everything, strength, size, etc. You can't possibly tell me you would hit a girl (for example), just to prove you can beat them up. I feel the same way if someone around 5'9", and under 190lbs tries to start a fight with me. There is nothing for me to prove... the hardest thing I have in a fight like that, is trying NOT to hurt them, and trying NOT to look like a bully. Your not going to hit a 12 year old reguardless, but lets say that's a 22 year old, but the same size as a 12 year old.... When someone is a half a foot shorter, or you have over 100 pounds on someone (not talking fat here), your uncomfortable hurting someone that much smaller then you. At least I am.

 

This is why it's so easy to get big guys over. Realistically, two guys on the same level of skill (in fighting), one with a 100 pound advantage and strength advantage, has definately got the upper hand, no matter how you slice it. You have to build up the smaller guy to be percieved as a better fighter/wrestler, or what have you.

 

If I were a small guy, I probably would be mad about the way smaller guys get treated in wrestling as well, since it's not "real"... The problem with it is that it's supposed to at least appear real, and realistically, half-pints aren't beating up men that look like a miniature incredible Hulk.

 

I actually don't see any problem in pushing guys that have Cena's size. He's no giant. And that was not the point of my argument. But never mind that for now, let's take a look at what you said.

The whole "the bigger the guys, the easier the push" argument is a valid one, granted, but we can look at it the other way around. If we want to keep things real, we shouldn't have rosters or main events full with Dave Batista look-a-likes. Because if you look at professional sports (real ones) you don't see them full with only big guys.So, to have realistic scenarios, we could have balanced rosters with divided pushes. Wich would mean pushes to the medium/small guys happening as well. Becase if size was the major factor on deciding pushes, then we'd see promotions full of Batistas or Khalis. So to get the things down to an acceptable realism, there will have to be smaller guys involved, wich would include pushes to them.

 

And if we look at it, the majority of the so called "guys that were main event or world champion material bur were treated unfairly by vince" are regular guys. Guys that don't fall in the batista, lashley or even cena (I'm using acceptable examples in here, cause we don't see that many Big Show or Khalis around) type of height/weight combination. That definetly means something. And if we look at the WWE pushes in the last years we could definitely ask to ourselves: "Would John be pushed the way he was if we didin't look the way he does?" I think not. And now that i talk about this, i remember that this is why i brought up the whole "Big Guys" argument. I'll admit it didn't came out well back then, but it's an excellent or at least valid argument, and you guys have to give me that much.

[Teh_Showtime]

SuperOrton is like 30 pounds smaller than Cena with basically the same push as of late

 

And Cena was nowhere near this size his first WWE title run. I say he bulkee up after the Pec injury

[Nathers7]

Cena debate still going? Lol, I think what gets tiresome with this argument is that I've been involved in it so many times in the past few years and it always goes the same way. I think people are being a bit immature in their responses to shawn as to be fair it's his second language and he still puts his points across really well, instead of commenting on the well put points he says. People just seem to focus on one point he said as a joke and a few things that he wasn't able to say with detail which is unfair.

 

I agree alot with what was said above. Maybe if wrestling in the 80s developed with small guys aswell as larger guys being booked equal then we'd be having a different conversation. I think there comes a point where someone is too small (Sin Cara) and too big (Khali) where it just doesn't look realistic. Though guys like Punk, Michaels, Jericho and Benoit who are small but not too small definitely have the same potential to get over as a Triple H, Brock Lesnar or a Cena.