The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[djthefunkchris]

Cole was beyond obnoxious in the opening the main event on Raw, to a whole new level. Yeah, let's have the main guy selling the public on the PPV's act in the most obnoxious and off-putting manner possible, that will sell some tickets.

 

Something to remember about Backlund's reign, and something it doesn't appear certain people are aware of, is that even though his run at the top lasted until the end of 1983, there was a serious backlash against him that began a few years before that. We're not just talking about the fans of one particular heel shouting him down, we're talking about outright hatred and mockery from the fans to a degree and in a manner that you just didn't see much of in that era towards top stars, especially babyfaces. And he only got the belt back strictly to transition it from Bret to Diesel; his persona and skill had nothing to do with that. Just to impart some knowledge to the unenlightened.

 

Everyone was tired of him, and he wasn't the only one that people were tired of.... historically, there were quite a few "true" wrestler's, that people were tired of, AWA was just as guilty, if not moreso... and the NWA had it's moments as well.

[OldStingberg]

Of course he did. He wouldn't be in the position he is, if it was solely Cole. I don't mean to take away from Bryan as far as his skills go... but as far as putting his name out there over and over and over and over, etc... Cole did that for him. He handled things, but Cole led the way for him. When he's finally to the point the WWE are comfortable with him in (Bryan), I wonder who Cole will push next?

 

If you think Cole constantly harping on Bryan's very real weaknesses while Bryan never gets a chance to do a damn thing about it is Cole putting over Bryan, I don't know what to say.

 

I think Bryan would be in a much, much better position today if the WWE had an announcer capable of putting over his strengths. Well, they do have an announcer capable of that, but they've decided they'd rather repeatedly humiliate that announcer. C'est la vie.

[BHK1978]

Just to impart some knowledge to the unenlightened.

 

What would we ever do if you stopped condescending to us in post after post…um…I mean imparting your knowledge to us the unenlightened in post after post? Seriously man get over yourself, you are posting about a fake sport on the internet, this is hardly the highest level of intellectual talk there is.

 

I understand what Cole does. I just personally don't like it. Having someone constantly yelling at you that everything you sucks wears on me after awhile.

 

If you think Cole constantly harping on Bryan's very real weaknesses while Bryan never gets a chance to do a damn thing about it is Cole putting over Bryan, I don't know what to say.

 

I think Bryan would be in a much, much better position today if the WWE had an announcer capable of putting over his strengths. Well, they do have an announcer capable of that, but they've decided they'd rather repeatedly humiliate that announcer. C'est la vie.

 

I put these two together because I agree with what the two of you said. As the lead play-by-play guy, Cole should not have the character he has. It works much better if the color commentator fills that role.

[djthefunkchris]

If you think Cole constantly harping on Bryan's very real weaknesses while Bryan never gets a chance to do a damn thing about it is Cole putting over Bryan, I don't know what to say.

 

I think Bryan would be in a much, much better position today if the WWE had an announcer capable of putting over his strengths. Well, they do have an announcer capable of that, but they've decided they'd rather repeatedly humiliate that announcer. C'est la vie.

 

The other guys talk about how he submissioned a submissioner, etc... How he makes people tap out, and such.

 

Cole to me (and I know that most don't agree, but I have to stick to my own reactions to it), talking about his weakness' over and over, and trying to find anything possible to make Bryan look bad, makes me WANT Bryaon to proove him wrong. It makes me WANT Bryan to do everything Cole say's he cannot do. It makes me WANT Bryan to succeed despite Cole. It makes me WANT Bryan to put away opponants like Big Show and Mark Henry, just to rub it in Cole's face..... that's what it makes me want to happen... and that's what makes me cheer for Bryan when it does happen.

 

I understand the opposite positioning here, but I sincerely doubt the position I represent is given a fair shake... I honestly don't even think some people will even try to see it from this standpoint (outright refuse really).

 

I wouldn't be me if I didn't say what I think, even if it's NOT the popular way to think. I honestly don't think Bryan could have been where he is without Cole. Don't get me wrong though, I appreciate his obvious skills, and I feel he deserves it, Cole or no Cole. I just think Cole helped get him there alot faster.

 

Let me put it a different way... The Miz could have done what Cole did, or some other Wrestler. They could have been the thorn in Bryan's side all along, and the ending be the same... SO, I'm not saying ONLY Cole could have done it. I'm just saying, he was definately the one in this example of "making" a star.

[djthefunkchris]

I put these two together because I agree with what the two of you said. As the lead play-by-play guy, Cole should not have the character he has. It works much better if the color commentator fills that role.

 

I'm going to pick on you for a minute, only because I know you will take it as light hearted as I mean it.

 

IF you re-read what you posted, and you think about it... It looks like you're against change. "Cole should not have the character he has" because he's the play by play guy.

 

It's been a good while since we seen a Heel Announcer in WWE (I mean a REAL Heel), no matter if they are Colour or Play by Play. I think the problem might have to be what we are used to perhaps, moreso then a problem with the person doing it. I mean, most commentator teams have a guy that "likes" some of the bad guys, but they only do up to a point... Meaning if the bad guy does something really REALLY bad, they hurry up and wash their hands of it. This guy Cole though, he doesn't care what MIZ does, or how good Bryan becomes, because Miz is Awesome and Bryan is an Internet Geek (Cole calling someone a geek is fun enough for me), no matter what... At least to Cole. IF Miz does the same exact things Bryan does, Miz is going to be looked at as GREAT, while Bryan is going to be looked at as "Taking advantage" or a "Fluke".

 

I loved the "Why are you doing this to us!" myself. I can't believe others aren't loving this.

[JackKnifed72]

As the lead play-by-play guy, Cole should not have the character he has. It works much better if the color commentator fills that role.

 

 

+1

 

I have to say I strongly agree with this statement...

 

Monsoon/Heenan...McMahon/Ventura...Ross/Lawler...

 

The dynamic works better with the "straight man" as the play by play as he does most of the talking...the heel as the colour...

 

Watching Cole on RAW comes off like watching a heel promo...for two hours...

 

It get's old...

 

Fast...

 

Just sayin'

[BHK1978]

I'm going to pick on you for a minute, only because I know you will take it as light hearted as I mean it.

 

IF you re-read what you posted, and you think about it... It looks like you're against change. "Cole should not have the character he has" because he's the play by play guy.

 

It's been a good while since we seen a Heel Announcer in WWE (I mean a REAL Heel), no matter if they are Colour or Play by Play. I think the problem might have to be what we are used to perhaps, moreso then a problem with the person doing it. I mean, most commentator teams have a guy that "likes" some of the bad guys, but they only do up to a point... Meaning if the bad guy does something really REALLY bad, they hurry up and wash their hands of it. This guy Cole though, he doesn't care what MIZ does, or how good Bryan becomes, because Miz is Awesome and Bryan is an Internet Geek (Cole calling someone a geek is fun enough for me), no matter what... At least to Cole. IF Miz does the same exact things Bryan does, Miz is going to be looked at as GREAT, while Bryan is going to be looked at as "Taking advantage" or a "Fluke".

 

I see what you are saying, they are trying to do something new and we should give it a shot. However, as you said, for me it is a going against something I am used to and has nothing to do with Cole himself. I have nothing against him; I just feel the character works better as a color commentator. Side note the only commentator or play-by-play guy that I ever truly disliked was Mongo, man was he horrible.

 

I would not mind in the least bit if they brought Jim Ross back as the lead announcer/play-by-play guy and put Cole as a color commentator. The play-by-play guy has always been a just the facts type of person. While the commentator is supposed to be zany, sometimes annoying, and opinionated.

 

Look at the original booth for Monday Night Football you had Keith Jackson the straight-laced play-by-play guy, Dandy Don as the zany ex-jock commentator, and Howard Cosell as the annoying, opinionated commentator. In wrestling, you had Gorilla Monsoon play the straight man to Bobby Heenan.

 

Why?

 

Because it works, the play-by-play guy (I say guy but it could be a woman as well, I am not trying to be sexist here.) is not supposed to act that way. Maybe it is me being resistant to change, but I just do not like the dynamic.

[moon_lit_tears]

+1

 

I have to say I strongly agree with this statement...

 

Monsoon/Heenan...McMahon/Ventura...Ross/Lawler...

 

The dynamic works better with the "straight man" as the play by play as he does most of the talking...the heel as the colour...

 

Watching Cole on RAW comes off like watching a heel promo...for two hours...

 

It get's old...

 

Fast...

 

Just sayin'

 

 

I get what they are doing with Cole, but it comes off all wrong. They need a heel commentator who can also show some respect to the good guys. Cole just comes off like a straight up douche and myself and many others are turned off by it.

[Fantabulous]

If you think Cole constantly harping on Bryan's very real weaknesses while Bryan never gets a chance to do a damn thing about it is Cole putting over Bryan, I don't know what to say.

 

I do, but let's not go down that road again.

 

What would we ever do if you stopped condescending to us in post after post…um…I mean imparting your knowledge to us the unenlightened in post after post? Seriously man get over yourself, you are posting about a fake sport on the internet, this is hardly the highest level of intellectual talk there is

Wah.

[Basmat01]

If Cole leaves the announce table who is going to replace him? Josh Matthews? Scott Stanford? JR wont ever return full-time and Todd Grisham is gone

[Jaysin]

If Cole leaves the announce table who is going to replace him? Josh Matthews? Scott Stanford? JR wont ever return full-time and Todd Grisham is gone

 

Honestly, I would love the announce team to be either one of them and Regal or Matt Striker. Both of which are far better color men then King ever was.

[Self]

I'm watching RAW for the first time in months and I can't stand the announcing. I find them intrusive. I'm enjoying this opening segment, with Punk doing something different, and then I hear Cole & Lawler in my ear and I find it annoying. Not specifically what they're saying. More their presence. Maybe it's all the indy wrestling I watch nowadays, where they announce bell-to-bell and nothing more. I wish they'd just let things be. Shut up and let the opening segments speak for themselves.

 

I don't like Cole, but whether it's "Bad Announcer" heat or because he's effectively producing an negative emotional response for me, I can't really tell yet. I do however HATE heel commentators with a fiery passion. I find them to be such a 90's wrestling cliche. Done to death. Counter-productive when done poorly. Even when done well, it's tired. Sick of it.

[djthefunkchris]

IF there is one complaint I here over and over about wrestling, it's the "Too much talk, not enough action" debate. I agree with Self in that respect. I too find that too much talking is done in WWE (and sometimes even more in TNA), but.... I have always felt that way about WWE... even when they were the WWWF, but especially since Vince took over.

 

I would be like Self and watch indie wrestling, if I could get past the feeling of watching kids "play wrestling" when I watch it. Outside of that feeling, I do prefer the more action less talking.

[bigtplaystew]

I actually think Cole's extremely talented. I respect him as a wrestling announcer. I despise his character. I know he's a heel and you're supposed to. So in that regard, he's effective.

 

But I personally am tired of him. I wish he would tone it down a bit more. He comes off as over-the-top and corny to me most times.

[OldStingberg]

I actually think Cole's extremely talented. I respect him as a wrestling announcer. I despise his character. I know he's a heel and you're supposed to. So in that regard, he's effective.

 

I've heard this before and it drives me nuts. If Cole is so despised that people are muting their TVs or changing the channel, that's not being effective, at least not effective in the sense of "helping people enjoy their entertainment experience" which, presumably (though it's hard to tell at times), is the WWE's main goal.

 

Cole's character would work in very small doses, like Vickie Guerrero. It does not work at all when viewers are exposed to it for the better part of two hours twice a week. That sort of massive over-exposure has killed any chance Cole's character had of building effective heat.

[Astil]

Daniel Bryan would not be World Heavyweight champ if it wasn't for Cole.

[Slim Jim]

I loved Matt Striker's commentary at the Royal Rumble, the fact that he seems to actually enjoy the show is so much more appealing than King's hemipygic delivery.

[OldStingberg]

Daniel Bryan would not be World Heavyweight champ if it wasn't for Cole.

 

Daniel Bryan would not be World Heavyweight champ if it wasn't for the vocal, passionate fan base he built up over years of high-quality work on the independent wrestling scene. And just so it's noted, I'm not really a Daniel Bryan fan, so I'm not saying that to try and indirectly credit myself for his title.

 

Cole has been harping on Bryan for a year, and Bryan still doesn't have many more fans than he originally had.

 

CM Punk and the WWE creative team probably did more in the past week to put over Bryan than Cole has ever done.

[Astil]

To the common fan a vocal passionate fan base means nothing. It's done nothing for Christian, arguably the internet fans golden boy. You need a proper story to make people stand up and take notice. Cole is just saying what Brian has to fight against regardless. He's small. He did say something and go back on it. He doesn't have the 'WWE' look. It makes every victory much more worth it, that you get to shove it in the haters face. The more obnoxious, annoying, mean the hater is, the more satisfying the victory.

[OldStingberg]

To the common fan a vocal passionate fan base means nothing.

 

That's an odd thing to say. You seem to be replying to me as if I said Bryan's indy fan base has gotten him over with the more common fans. Except I didn't make that argument.

 

Bryan is not very over right now. In terms of active faces, he's certainly behind Cena, Orton, Punk, Ryder, and Sheamus. If you add in injured/semi-active guys, he's also certainly behind Triple H, Taker, Rey Mysterio, and Sin Cara.

 

My point is that the people Bryan is actually over with, the people that have made the WWE semi-comfortable with putting the title on Bryan, have absolutely nothing to do with Michael Cole. In other words, Michael Cole has done very little to nothing to get Bryan new, casual fans.

[Astil]

In other words, Michael Cole has done very little to nothing to get Bryan new, casual fans.

 

I disagree with this. That's what my above post was about.

[20LEgend]

I also think that to a casual fan it's more like

 

Michael Cole = dislike, so they disagree with Michael Cole's opinion. I think that makes sense to the less knowledgeable fan, but I don't know any so it's just something I think makes sense.

 

I like Cole, just not when it takes away from matches, he is really funny at times.

[Jaysin]

I loved Matt Striker's commentary at the Royal Rumble, the fact that he seems to actually enjoy the show is so much more appealing than King's hemipygic delivery.

 

Yeah, that's why I'm such a huge fan of Striker. He's pretty knowledgeable(doesn't call the Whisper in the Wind the Twist of Fate *cough*JR*cough*). He's effective as a heel commentator by defending the heels without burying faces.

 

In my opinion he's the best color commentator since Bobby Heenan.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Cole certainly did his part in putting over Bryan, and I'm sure Bryan's demeanor alone wouldn't have cut it. Especially with his MITB run. I mean hell, half of Bryan's standout promos involve or come from him shutting Michael Cole up, or trying to. The constant badgering from Cole involved him talking about his character and made him sympathetic - heck it's basically what Bryan had. It's a classic "woobie" persona, which had to be validated through Cole, given his role.

 

Now as for Cole himself, his status is very hot and cold for me. On the longer scale his commentary annoys me, he gets tedious and overbearing at certain points, but he's done his fair share for certain characters, the way he's talked about them. namely miz, Ryder, Bryan and to a lesser extent other up and comers.

[bigtplaystew]

Comeon lol. COLE is the reason the guy's champion???

 

Bryan Danielson one of the best wrestlers I've EVER seen in my life. An all around amazing performer who has done great work. Now his WWE stuff has been decidedly less "balls-to-the-wall" for lack of a better phrase, but he's actually transitions very well into their style of storytelling and performance.

 

Now of course I understand he hasn't done it alone. Good angles and good opponents have helped him rise. I suppose commentary as well. But I simply do not agree at all with the idea that MICHEAL COLE is the sole reason Daniel Bryan has a belt. I'm sorry. Cole has ripped too many people just as hard for that to be a valid reason for anything. Under that logic, A-Ry should be bigger than John Cena right now.