The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Stennick]

Ampulater,

 

I don't agree that Wrestling is at the "halfway" between movies not selling on ppv anymore and true live events like concerts, mma and boxing.

 

Wrestling being scripted has nothing to do with anything. Its not like entire scripts leak for pro wrestling before the show airs. Even the people that do read the dirt sheets don't even know who's going to win most of the time. Nobody thought Cena would beat HHH for the title at WM, nobody thought HHH would job to Benoit at WM. Even recently the wrestling world was turned on its ear when Cena lost to Sheamous.

 

What I mean is that it being scripted has nothing to do with how profitable on ppv it is. If anything it works in its favor.

 

For instance MMA just did a huge Rashad vs. Rampage fight and a huge Brock vs. Carwin fight. Now I'm not the bigget MMA guy in the world but I know that these next few fights are going to draw smaller numbers since their bigger named guys have just all fought.

 

Wrestling has the luxary of wheeling Cena out there 12 times or more a year on pay per view. Brock fights what three times a year on pay per view?

 

There is no doubt the two are in competition. Aside from the fan base which is an arguable point they both derive a lot of their profits from pay per view buys and such. When you have two people charging top dollar once a month to watch something on pay per view in this economy you're not buying both, you're choosing one.

 

However again Wrestling being scripted has nothing to do with how effective on pay per view it is. If anything I think it helps. Its the perfect blend of scripted and live to where you can control what happens but nobody else knows until you buy it.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

For instance MMA just did a huge Rashad vs. Rampage fight and a huge Brock vs. Carwin fight. Now I'm not the bigget MMA guy in the world but I know that these next few fights are going to draw smaller numbers since their bigger named guys have just all fought.

 

Wrestling has the luxary of wheeling Cena out there 12 times or more a year on pay per view. Brock fights what three times a year on pay per view?

 

Not sure what you're getting at with that. Even the smallest UFC ppv beats WWE(Non WM). When Brock fights they are bigger numbers than Mania.

[haloed]

Ampulater,

 

I don't agree that Wrestling is at the "halfway" between movies not selling on ppv anymore and true live events like concerts, mma and boxing.

 

Wrestling being scripted has nothing to do with anything. Its not like entire scripts leak for pro wrestling before the show airs. Even the people that do read the dirt sheets don't even know who's going to win most of the time. Nobody thought Cena would beat HHH for the title at WM, nobody thought HHH would job to Benoit at WM. Even recently the wrestling world was turned on its ear when Cena lost to Sheamous.

 

What I mean is that it being scripted has nothing to do with how profitable on ppv it is. If anything it works in its favor.

 

For instance MMA just did a huge Rashad vs. Rampage fight and a huge Brock vs. Carwin fight. Now I'm not the bigget MMA guy in the world but I know that these next few fights are going to draw smaller numbers since their bigger named guys have just all fought.

 

Wrestling has the luxary of wheeling Cena out there 12 times or more a year on pay per view. Brock fights what three times a year on pay per view?

 

There is no doubt the two are in competition. Aside from the fan base which is an arguable point they both derive a lot of their profits from pay per view buys and such. When you have two people charging top dollar once a month to watch something on pay per view in this economy you're not buying both, you're choosing one.

However again Wrestling being scripted has nothing to do with how effective on pay per view it is. If anything I think it helps. Its the perfect blend of scripted and live to where you can control what happens but nobody else knows until you buy it.

 

Not to mention you won't see a lucky shot end the show. You pretty much know with wrestling that you are going to get nearly 3 hours of entertainment. With MMA or boxing for that matter, a fight could be over in a matter of seconds.

 

Now I'm not trying to start an argument, just saying why I would rather spend my money on a wrestling PPV than MMA or boxing.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Not to mention you won't see a lucky shot end the show. You pretty much know with wrestling that you are going to get nearly 3 hours of entertainment. With MMA or boxing for that matter, a fight could be over in a matter of seconds.

 

Now I'm not trying to start an argument, just saying why I would rather spend my money on a wrestling PPV than MMA or boxing.

 

Didn't WWE's last ppv end after about 2h 15m or something?

[justtxyank]

Not to mention you won't see a lucky shot end the show. You pretty much know with wrestling that you are going to get nearly 3 hours of entertainment. With MMA or boxing for that matter, a fight could be over in a matter of seconds.

 

Now I'm not trying to start an argument, just saying why I would rather spend my money on a wrestling PPV than MMA or boxing.

 

I'd rather pay to watch ballet than boxing because I don't have to worry about the ballet ending early.

[Jaysin]

You know what I really hate? When the "news" sites post spoilers in the headline! I should have to click the freaking link if I want to know what happens. I don't read Impact spoilers, and I shouldn't have to start because some assclown on a site decides to post a headline with the spoiler...

 

TNA News: A title changes hands at the TNA Impact taping (spoiler) *highlight to read*

 

I know they didn't specify which they're talking about, but still. It takes away from the surprise of it happening when I watch Thursday or Friday.

[MasterJ]

I agree I would rather pay for a wrestling ppv than a boxing/mma (more so boxing) because I'll get at least the show I payed for as in time noted I've had bad exprinces ordering some Tyson fights that were hyped up pretty good and then ended as soon as I sat down with my beer. In wrestling the cards are stronger than boxing too, so I and most people I know pay to see the main fight and when it ends 30 seconds into the first round it's not worthmy money.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I agree I would rather pay for a wrestling ppv than a boxing/mma (more so boxing) because I'll get at least the show I payed for as in time noted I've had bad exprinces ordering some Tyson fights that were hyped up pretty good and then ended as soon as I sat down with my beer. In wrestling the cards are stronger than boxing too, so I and most people I know pay to see the main fight and when it ends 30 seconds into the first round it's not worthmy money.

 

Cards being stronger is very subjective. The casual fan who only orders the Tyson fight won't know the undercard fighters(Not saying you are, but I get that impression). That doesn't mean they aren't good.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

You know what I really hate? When the "news" sites post spoilers in the headline! I should have to click the freaking link if I want to know what happens. I don't read Impact spoilers, and I shouldn't have to start because some assclown on a site decides to post a headline with the spoiler...

 

 

I know they didn't specify which they're talking about, but still. It takes away from the surprise of it happening when I watch Thursday or Friday.

 

Its quite hilarious that they put (spoiler) at the end of the headline.

[Jaysin]

Its quite hilarious that they put (spoiler) at the end of the headline.

 

I know! That pissed me off even more.

[haloed]

Didn't WWE's last ppv end after about 2h 15m or something?

 

Wouldn't know, not a huge fan of WWE.

 

 

 

I'd rather pay to watch ballet than boxing because I don't have to worry about the ballet ending early.

 

What does ballet have to do with anything? I'm just saying with wrestling I generally know what I'm going to get. With MMA or boxing, that one bout that you were really looking foward to could end before it really ever gets going and I'd feel cheated.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Wouldn't know, not a huge fan of WWE.

 

 

 

 

 

What does ballet have to do with anything? I'm just saying with wrestling I generally know what I'm going to get. With MMA or boxing, that one bout that you were really looking foward to could end before it really ever gets going and I'd feel cheated.

 

I guess, but alot of people are hoping to see the big KO punch too. I know you are only talking about your own opinion though.

[Stennick]

Not sure what you're getting at with that. Even the smallest UFC ppv beats WWE(Non WM). When Brock fights they are bigger numbers than Mania.

 

I agree that UFC puts out bigger pay per view numbers than the WWE but there are SEVERAL reasons for that.

 

One if you want to see your top fighters fight you have to buy pay per view. There isn't what six or seven hours or MMA progamming featuring the top stars in their respective business like there is with the WWE. You got RAW two hours, Smackdown 2 hours, Superstars, etc. All of these feature the big time wrestlers and a lot of times you get some sort of big time match up. Not too mention if you miss a WWE pay per view you can always catch John Cena in the next months ppv.

 

So there are several reasons why MMA and Boxing pop bigger buyrates. Money Mayweather fights once a year doesn't he?

 

So what I'm getting at is that although MMA puts out bigger numbers than pro wrestling for ppv there is a reason for this. Some of it is that MMA right now is just as if not more popular than pro wrestling. That combined with the way the ppv's are set up and how often you get to see your favorite fighter or fighters along with that being essentially the only way you see the main event fighters fight. To where as you can close your eyes and point to a day of the week and there is a good chance pro wrestling's top stars are on television that night.

 

MMA is great, I love it and I watch the big fights. However my argument was when Ampulator said that Wrestling was at half disadvantage and half advantage for being on ppv while MMA is at full advantage due to pro wrestling being scripted.

 

I was pointining out why MMA has the advantage over pro wrestling in ppv and it has nothing to do with pro wrestling being scripted. My argument was if anything that helps pro wrestling in the pay per view scene.

[PeterHilton]

I agree I would rather pay for a wrestling ppv than a boxing/mma (more so boxing) because I'll get at least the show I payed for as in time noted I've had bad exprinces ordering some Tyson fights that were hyped up pretty good and then ended as soon as I sat down with my beer. In wrestling the cards are stronger than boxing too, so I and most people I know pay to see the main fight and when it ends 30 seconds into the first round it's not worthmy money.

 

What does ballet have to do with anything? I'm just saying with wrestling I generally know what I'm going to get. With MMA or boxing, that one bout that you were really looking foward to could end before it really ever gets going and I'd feel cheated.

 

C'mon fellas...I know it's just a preference, but it's a SPORT. Of course there are going to be unexpectedly short endings every once in a while.

[Jaysin]

http://www.tnawrestling.com/media/k2/galleries/2054/cover.jpg

 

[Self]

Really? AJ? I mean, he's had some nice matches, but his promos are mediocre and he's in the midst of a barely passable heel run. He hasn't exactly set the world on fire this year.

 

Then again. Who has?

[Slagaholic]

That's your opinion.

 

I think AJ's heel act is awesome and he's cut better promos in the past year than he has in his entire career. He held the World title for 211 days. I think he's had quite a few better than "nice matches."

 

Why do you think his heel run is barely passable? He's getting heat isn't he? The crowd is booing him right? Fans pay to see him don't they?

 

I don't understand the hate for heel AJ, I think he's done a very good job and his heel act is getting better and better.

 

If you could go into greater detail as to why you don't think AJ deserved the top spot and who you think would have been the better choice, it'd be greatly appreciated.

[Self]

It's not 'hate' I have for heel AJ. I quite like his comedy schtick. I thought his little thing with Kaz at the PPV was adorable. I don't think anyone's "paying to see him" in the traditional heel sense, but he's entertaining enough.

 

As for other options... You may have me there. Everyone I can think of has had major lulls in their year. Jericho got stale and faded away. Batista's heel run was phenomenal, but short and no smarks will ever put him high on a 'best wrestler' list. CM Punk's character work has been more sustained, but he's consistently out of the title picture. Orton's babyface turn fizzled. Jeff Hardy in TNA is nothing to get excited about. Angle's been hurt. Shawn Michaels retired.

 

Maybe we are down to AJ. Which I find a bit surprising, and I rate him high, but not 'number one' high. Granted, I rate character as far more important than ring work (woo woo woo) so my views probably differ from the folks putting together that list. My memory of TNA is also fairly patchy. I guess the year also includes pre-Hogan era, with AJ and Angle having those great matches and the Daniels-Joe threeway. Those were pretty awesome.

[PeterHilton]

That's your opinion.

 

I think AJ's heel act is awesome and he's cut better promos in the past year than he has in his entire career. He held the World title for 211 days. I think he's had quite a few better than "nice matches."

 

Why do you think his heel run is barely passable? He's getting heat isn't he? The crowd is booing him right? Fans pay to see him don't they?

 

I don't understand the hate for heel AJ, I think he's done a very good job and his heel act is getting better and better.

 

If you could go into greater detail as to why you don't think AJ deserved the top spot and who you think would have been the better choice, it'd be greatly appreciated.

 

I'd be curious about the timeframe. Because if it includes the months before Hogan/Eric when AJ was wrestling against Angle and Sting, and the PPv matches against Daniels and Joe & Daniels then I'm totally with it.

[LoganRodzen]

Didn't WWE's last ppv end after about 2h 15m or something?

 

I'm pretty sure that's why MITB has a full card (7 matches) now. They've really dropped the ball with PPVs by only hyping about four matches every time.

[lazorbeak]

Why do you think his heel run is barely passable? He's getting heat isn't he? The crowd is booing him right? Fans pay to see him don't they?

 

I don't understand the hate for heel AJ, I think he's done a very good job and his heel act is getting better and better.

 

If you could go into greater detail as to why you don't think AJ deserved the top spot and who you think would have been the better choice, it'd be greatly appreciated.

 

Uh, no? By and large, nobody's paying to see him.

 

But seriously, there's half a dozen guys that would easily be better choices. Chris Jericho was an incredible heel act and had show stealing matches with Mysterio all summer before making tag team wrestling relevant again. Shawn Michaels was in hands down the greatest match of 2009, and probably the top match of 2010 so far. CM Punk had some great matches with Hardy in the main event before forming the SES. Hardy in 2009 was a breakout star, even if he managed to piss it away by the end of the year.

 

Not to knock AJ but it's not as though no one else can make a case.

[Stennick]

Yeah nobody is paying to see AJ and Jericho had just as many memorable matches this year and his mic work is better. Jericho gets heat literally around the country from 20,000 people. AJ gets heat from a few thousand in the same studio mostly the same night or two of the month.

[ampulator]

I'm not that a huge of a MMA fan, but even I know that the unpredictability of the sport (which is what it is), is much better than professional wreslting, which is scripted. You can guess what happens in wrestling. It's much harder to do with MMA. It's very nature means it's possible, however unlikely, a legit upset will happen, and has happened before. It's same for any legit sport... you can believe that upsets can happen, however unlikely. I never thought Spain would beat Netherlands in the World Cup 2010.

 

Wrestling can't have that, in a world of mass media. It is what is. And people are paying less to see something they already pretty much know is going to be the same outcome.

 

As for Sheamus beating Cena, well, yes, no one thought he would. But few cared. The ones that cared, only cared because they finally saw Cena got beaten. Cena's fans knows he's going to get back pretty soon. It's not like he hasn't done this pattern before, with Randy Orton or Triple H.

 

But that's beside the point. The point is, WWE is going to less and less at PPV's... and that's normal, because the internet is trumping PPV's as a mass media. That's all there it is to it.

[Charasmatic Enigma]

I never thought Spain would beat Netherlands in the World Cup 2010.

 

A little off topic, but I've got to ask... You do realise Spain were run away favourites to win the final right?

[Self]

I'm not that a huge of a MMA fan, but even I know that the unpredictability of the sport (which is what it is), is much better than professional wreslting, which is scripted. You can guess what happens in wrestling. It's much harder to do with MMA. It's very nature means it's possible, however unlikely, a legit upset will happen, and has happened before. It's same for any legit sport... you can believe that upsets can happen, however unlikely. I never thought Spain would beat Netherlands in the World Cup 2010.

 

Wrestling can't have that, in a world of mass media. It is what is. And people are paying less to see something they already pretty much know is going to be the same outcome.

 

You're not wrong. Predictability is a factor, but not a crippling one. How many by-the-numbers rom-coms have hit big at the box office? Every single person walking into the cinema knows that the guy's gonna get the girl in the end, but people still come out to see it because the scenario connects to them emotionally. How many sports movies have teamed up a rag-tag band of misfits to succeed in the big game over their well-funded rivals? Hell, the new Karate Kid movie is a straight-up remake of the original, but it still did really well in the box office, because it's a time-tested story with a hero that folks can root for.

 

You're not wrong, the unpredictability of sports is a good draw, but I think in entertainment you can afford to be a bit predictable if the writing and the acting and the characters (and in this case the wrestling) are good enough.