The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[sheepy]

Yeah exactly their all making easy money. Christy Hemme is at the top of that list. Does Christy do any house shows? Or does she get 500,000 for three nights of work a week.

 

If you're TNA its not about the WWE capitalizing on anything. They are not at war with them. Their bottom lines aren't close to the same, their television and pay per view buys aren't close to the same. Their in the same business with the same fans but honestly if Kurt Angle was the asset he's supposed to be and he'd be something that could give the WWE a push higher then he'd be doing more for TNA than drawing them the same ratings they have been drawing for the last four or five years.

 

Kurt has a few good matches in him but he's 41 and he's not the same wrestler he was 4 years ago. I don't pretend to know what Kurt's personal life is like but with Lance Cade and others dropping like flies its no secret that Kurt had past demons. Without even so much of a drug testing in house Kurt's the kind of high profile name that carries some risk with him. Maybe thats all behind him, but at this point when you have 29 year old kids dropping dead I'm not willing to say its behind anybody.

 

My point is let Kurt finish out this year with amazing matches, maybe even keep him around till Slammiversery or whenever his contract runs out. Do a Ric Flair gimmick with him a goodbye tour and what not. Kurt's not going to hold up much longer and sometimes you got to beat father time to the punch. I'd rather cut Kurt when he's got a few good one's left in him than cut him after he's past his expropriation date in pro wrestling.

 

I think if there is one thing TEW has taught us is that smaller promotions have to be careful with their money. TNA has a billionaire on board but he's not Ted Turner he's not going to sink money into this to win at all costs. And if so then why are they so willing to sink the money into the wrestlers but no money into advertising for them.

 

I don't see how you can make a case for Kurt to be let go of due to "substance abuse" and yet in the same post say they should be focusing on RVD, Kennedy and Hardy all of whom have equally terrible records for being drug abusers and one of whom has come very close to a 5 year jail stretch for drug dealing.

 

Kurt is still IMO capable of being their number one star and the fact he isn't is more down to the fact he's having some time off atm whilst he does this rise back to the top. There are very few TNA wrestlers who properly understand the basics of using psychology in a match and Kurt is the one bloke you can look at and can sell a story.

 

If anything, I'd argue for continuing to build the promotion around Angle as he has far more staying power at the top of a promotion than RVD, Kennedy or Hardy.

[Shmoe]

I don't see how you can make a case for Kurt to be let go of due to "substance abuse" and yet in the same post say they should be focusing on RVD, Kennedy and Hardy

 

RVD smokes pot. He's also said numerous times in interviews there's a fine line between use and abuse, and he sits firmly on the use side. Anderson and Hardy on the other hand, you're right but for somebody that lights up every now and then, that's nothing to get too worried about.

[Hyde Hill]

From the good old Hamilton Avenue on 411 mania:

 

"TNA's ratings have not been stagnant. When the show premiered in 2005, the ratings were a 0.80 average. After that, the ratings have gone:

 

2006: +12.2% to 0.90

2007: +16.6% to 1.05

2008: +0.8% to 1.05

2009: +8.0% to 1.14

2010 (YTD): -9.7% to 1.03

 

If it wasn't for the move to Monday's, TNA would be showing a continued trend upwards over five years. These are significant jumps in ratings for Spike, and that is what matters."

 

And they do have drug testing and the lighter schedule TNA has allows for healing time.

 

I think I read somewhere that they signed Hemme's to a new contract which was lower, still we do not know any of this for sure.

 

I do agree with your point of trying to see where cuts can be made and where that can be reinvested into advertising but you are taking a kind of bleak view on everything Stennick and relying on sheet information.

[Slagaholic]

Parts of the show I did enjoy, that doesn't mean I have to say "Oh my god the whole show was f'n awesome" because it wasn't. It didn't draw more people, it didn't have a "wow" factor, it was a mediocre Impact show that was built up as some "supershow". Are you telling me you went, Holy Sh*t when Shannon Moore came out as Jeff Hardy's opponent? I kinda more went with a "WTF? Pointless" Beer Money vs. MCMG and the AJ vs. Angle match (which again wasn't their best together, but good nonetheless) were the only decent matches, IN MY OPINION. The rest of the show was nothing special.

 

Comments like yours are why people get wound up with us Internet fans, because you're not allowed an opinion without someone giving you a snide comment back just becaue they think you're "wrong" or you don't agree with their perceptions. It didn't add anything to the thread, just antagonistic.

 

I wasn't making a snide comment. I was being honest when I said that I can't comprehend what you want in a wrestling show. Of everyone I've talked to about this show you are the only person I've come in contact with that thought it was mediocre and was not better than the previous Impacts. You're also the only person I've come in contact with that thought MCMG vs Beer Money was only decent. And finally you're the only person I've come in contact with that believes the choice of Shannon Moore to face Jeff Hardy seriously affected your thoughts on the show.

 

I wasn't being an ass, I was being honest. Your opinion intrigues me. Your response has only peaked my curiosity.

 

I must know: What do you look for in a wrestling show? What about the previous Impacts were superior to The Whole F'n Show? What is your all time favorite tag team match (gimmick matches not included)?

[Self]

To kinda back-up Fleisch here, I liked the show, but I wasn't blown away by it either. Beer Money vs MCMG was very good, but I'm not even sure if it's my favourite match of the series, let alone MOTY. The triple threat was a let down. Shannon vs Jeff was soulless. The women's match only adequate. Having little-to-no interest in Hogan and ECW, and hating Abyss with a fiery passion, the ending did little to keep my interest until James Storm waffled Raven with the beer bottle, which was funny. If they'd closed with the tag match, and had them cut promos throughout the show hyping it up, maybe I would have enjoyed the show as a whole a bit better.

 

However, it must be said that I'm a guy who likes talking with his wrestling. This show lacked the verbal spark I enjoy. It lacked a good promo by someone I care about.

 

It was certainly better than the last Impact I watched (the go-home for Hardcore Justice, which I thought was one of the worst wrestling shows I've ever seen) but nothing that blew my mind. It was good. Not great.

[Slagaholic]

I agree the go-home show for Hardcore Justice was an abomination from top to bottom.

[Stennick]

Hyde if I'm reading that right they have gone from a .9 average to a 1.14 average. If thats the case although its trending up I don't consider a .24 jump in the ratings over five years "trending upwards". To me thats stale. If you sign Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Nash, Hall, Erich Bischoff, Jeff Jarrett, RVD, Mr. Anderson, Jeff Hardy, Mic Foley, Kurt Angle, Team 3D, The James Gang, Sting, Christian Cage and Booker T.

 

Before mentioning anyone else look at that roster. Before mentioning any TNA originals or guys like Joe and other top indy talent. Look at that roster. Two things pop out at me. How expensive that roster is compared to Abyss, Joe, Styles, Lethal, MCMG, Eric Young, Beer Money, LAX, Matt Morgan, Desmond Wolfe and others are.

 

The second thing that pops out to me is that the first lineup is an all star cast. How many world champions are on that list? How many multiple champions are on that list? If we were composing a list of all time draws those guys would all be at the very top of that list. With that lineup and most of it there at the same time aside from Hogan and Flair and if I'm reading it right they have gone from an average of .90 to 1.14 in five years? How many millions have they spent there to bring their average up by .24?

 

Also if TNA has a drug testing policy point to me one time there has been a violation? I'm sure they keep it private but point to me one time a star of any significance has been kept off television for a set of tapings or two. Point to me one time there was rumblings of somebody being suspended for a drug policy. I've never heard the first word about ANYONE failing a drug test in TNA. So either every single wrestler in TNA is clean or TNA management keeps those things to themselves. Thats fine if they keep them to themselves but what persay would the punishment be? A hefty fine? In every organized athletic event in the United States including the WWE who has suspended Rey Mysterio one of their top draws, Randy Orton, etc. I find it hard to believe they have any sort of real drug testing policy in place or if they do the consequences for failing one must be so light that they might as well not have one.

 

That point I'm trying to make is .9 to 1.14 is stale to me. Thats not much of an improvment. If a regular television show had that sort of improvment it would be so minor that no one would speak of it. The WWE has had .24 flucuations in their television ratings on a weekly basis and in five years thats the best they can come up with. When WCW was on its dying days it was bringing in what 2.0's? The WWE nearly triples this rating. So its not like there aren't more wrestling fans out there to be found. The WWE pushes between four and five million viewers every week. My point isn't "OMGZ WWE IS BETTER" but my point is what is their excuse for not latching onto that fan base? Smackdown, heck ECW and Superstars drew at or above TNA.

 

They went the hire every former WWF/WCW star in the world and try to make people recognize us that way. The problem is that didn't work. Sting's merchandise sales may be a nice boost for the company but personally at this point if I'm TNA I'd rather spend a million on advertising than make whatever they are making off of Sting's merchandise. If they dropped every major name they had tommorow they would be at the same rating. They have shown time and time again that they have a CORE audience that will watch no matter who is pushed and no matter how bad the show is. I'd take that core audience, drop the expensive salaries of guys in their 40's and 50's and I'd plug that money right into advertising.

 

The reason A.J Styles isn't one of the biggest stars in the world is because nobody knows who he is. Stop paying for Nash's summer home and more Christmas collectibles for Foley and plug that money into advertising.

 

I'm not going off of any real "sheet" information Hyde its just simple math. Kevin Nash, Sting, Foley, Team 3D, Christy Hemme and others. All these guys put together are making quite the dollar amount. I've not heard Hemme resigned a lower contract in fact I would imagine if they signed her to a contract I can't imagine how they could go back and say "you know what we're sorry we signed you to this absurd amount of money we need it back so will you take a lower amount". At the very least I'm almost sure they had a buyout clause that got her a bigger payday than the entire KO division will get all year. With just Nash, Sting, Foley, 3D and Hemme alone I wouldn't bat an eyelash at that bottom line being around 2.5-3 million dollars. Their paying just those couple of people alone 3 million a year to keep the same ratings they had before half of them were hired.

[Stennick]

On the other note I'm in the category of this show not being as good as the iMPACTS from Lockdown until the ECW invasion. AJ/Kurt and the tag match were the only things about this show that I enjoyed. I hate ECW, Abyss is annoying, the women's match was awful and Hardy/Moore did nothing for me. As Self mentioned there was no real promos by anyone I cared about to add to it. The show wasn't bad and its better than the last month of ECW stuff but its not their best impact this year.

[Slagaholic]

On your point about ratings being stagnant. If you look at viewership trends for most TV shows they tend to lose viewers the longer they are on the air. An upward trend is a positive no matter what for Spike TV. It's not necessarily what TNA wants, true. Spike gets two hours of prime time every week that normally does a 1 or higher that is aimed at their key demo. If the ratings are on an upward trend it can only be good.

 

Did Spike sink a lot of money signing the big names you listed? Yes. But if TNA keeps getting 1s and continues their upward trend (I'm ignoring the Monday Night fiasco to better illustrate my point.)

 

Spike TV is a niche cable network whose overall viewership has been dropping like a rock. Should TNA be doing much better? Perhaps. Could TNA be doing much better? Most definitely. While I agree with your premise that they should spend more money on advertising, let's not act like TNA is a sinking ship.

 

And on your point about TNA's drug policy I can only say that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Especially when it comes to the inner workings and policy of a privately owned company. Information related to drug policy penalties and failed tests hurt both the company and it's workers, I don't think it's too far out of the question to think that TNA doesn't compromise storylines for drug policy violations. For example perhaps Samoa Joe's unexplained kidnapping and disappearance was really a drug policy violation. We don't know for sure.

[Stennick]

Well said Slag and I agree with your points. I'm not trying to make it sound like TNA is on its deathbed because I don't think it is.

 

I just think for that all star roster they have composed to go from a .9 to a 1.14 in five years is a small amount of improvement considering they have invested so much money into these stars both in the past and today.

 

My initial point and I stand by it is that the people that make up that 1.0 are going to watch TNA no matter what as long as its not up against RAW. No matter who was booking, no matter who was the focus, no matter how awful storylines got they kept that 1.0. If I were looking at that and forming a strategy to build on that I'd say complete youth movement. Not because their better, not because thats what the internet wants to see. But because the Bucks and MCMG, even AJ and Joe cost far less than Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Sting, Angle, etc.

 

It just feels like TNA wants to throw these names in the ring and say "watch us". I don't watch Spike T.V except for TNA do they advertise for TNA during the UFC stuff?

 

Being in the television business its sad to see Spike who actually had some original programming to start out with become the Fight network reality show network slash syndicate television network.

 

They reach as many homes as the USA Network as TNT, FX, TBS, A&E, AMC, etc and yet all of those stations have invested money into original programming and its paid off in dividends. If Spike were to get a hot original show on their network they could bolster everything around that.

[Jaysin]

Being in the television business its sad to see Spike who actually had some original programming to start out with become the Fight network reality show network slash syndicate television network.

 

Manswers, Deadliest Warrior, Pros vs Joes, Scrappers, Blue Mountain State, 1000 Ways to Die...none of those are original series?

[Stennick]

Not in the tradional sense. Well Blue State is the rest are reality show type category. Those are all niche programming and should be mostly regulated to late night and weekend airings. I'm talking about a comedy a drama with first rate acting and writing.

 

Blue State is a traditional television series but just from the commercials I'd say its not exactly going to set the world on fire. However its a step in the right direction the rest of them are not traditional television series'

 

Manswers, is not going to draw what Burn Notice, Sons of Anarch, Mad Men, etc. draw.

[Self]

I liked Blue Mountain State. I found it a pleasant watch.

 

Anyone else watch Reaction? What did y'all think? I like the idea of a calmer, more reflective show. Giving weight to events just by spending time reacting to them. The little interview bits were hit and miss, but it's nice hearing these guys talk.

 

That being said, I gave up after the MCMG section. Not sure how long the show is supposed to be (1 hour?) but at that point it felt like enough. Maybe I like the theory behind the show more than the actuality.

[LiquidSwords]

Recently I was talking to one of my friends and he used to be a big wrestling fan. He kind of knows about TNA but the only names that he know is the older guys such as Sting, Nash, RVD. I asked him if he knew who AJ Styles and Samoa Joe were and he didn't have a clue.

[TheEffect]

Just watched the whole f'n show and the mcmg vs beer money match was the best match i have ever seen. Huge future for those 4 imo

[cappyboy]

Being in the television business its sad to see Spike who actually had some original programming to start out with become the Fight network reality show network slash syndicate television network.

 

They reach as many homes as the USA Network as TNT, FX, TBS, A&E, AMC, etc and yet all of those stations have invested money into original programming and its paid off in dividends. If Spike were to get a hot original show on their network they could bolster everything around that.

 

You know, Stennick, there's one very simple thing it feels like Spike needs to do from their end and I've been saying it pretty much since they became Spike. They need to study their counterpart. They need to study Lifetime.

 

Not that Spike should just copy what Lifetime does, masculinize it and go. But say what you want about the specifics of Lifetime's approach, "Television for Women" isn't just a slogan to them. They have a vision of what that means. All their hallmarks are aired with a purpose. Whether it be the woman-in-jeopardy movies, the female centric sitcom reruns like Designing Women, Golden Girls and The Nanny or their dramatic series like Army Wives and Drop Dead Diva, nothing's there by accident. Every show and movie is there for a reason that ties into their vision. Spike's never had that vision.

 

Maybe I'd consider watching more their material if they could decide what being TV's man-cave (which could be a good slogan for them BTW) actually means to them. Do they want to be the live action lad mag suggested by shows like Manswers and Blue Mountain State? Do they want to be the combat channel as suggested by shows like Impact, Ultimate Fighter and Deadliest Warrior? Do they want to be syndie style home for gee-whiz-ain't-it-cool shows like CSI and Star Trek: TNG? They don't have a firm grasp on their identity the way Lifetime does. If more folks knew what to expect from Spike the way they do Lifetime, perhaps ratings wouldn't be as much as an issue

 

As such, it's not surprising that TNA and Spike have they relationship they do. They both have consistency issues and are forever chasing after objects that seem shiny rather than establishing a firm vision and using their assets accordingly. And in both cases, there's plenty of room for them to be as valuable as they imagine themselves to be if they did. You could almost say it's the perfect marriage that way.

[Hyde Hill]

Well said Slag and I agree with your points. I'm not trying to make it sound like TNA is on its deathbed because I don't think it is.

 

I just think for that all star roster they have composed to go from a .9 to a 1.14 in five years is a small amount of improvement considering they have invested so much money into these stars both in the past and today.

 

My initial point and I stand by it is that the people that make up that 1.0 are going to watch TNA no matter what as long as its not up against RAW. No matter who was booking, no matter who was the focus, no matter how awful storylines got they kept that 1.0. If I were looking at that and forming a strategy to build on that I'd say complete youth movement. Not because their better, not because thats what the internet wants to see. But because the Bucks and MCMG, even AJ and Joe cost far less than Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Sting, Angle, etc.

 

It just feels like TNA wants to throw these names in the ring and say "watch us". I don't watch Spike T.V except for TNA do they advertise for TNA during the UFC stuff?

 

Being in the television business its sad to see Spike who actually had some original programming to start out with become the Fight network reality show network slash syndicate television network.

 

They reach as many homes as the USA Network as TNT, FX, TBS, A&E, AMC, etc and yet all of those stations have invested money into original programming and its paid off in dividends. If Spike were to get a hot original show on their network they could bolster everything around that.

 

Thing is those names are not just for us the viewers but for their other partners. I remember quite clearly it being mentioned that the signing of Sting got them the Spike tv deal in the first place, it also goes towards the international market, which is where TNA makes most of its pure profit, those big names help heaps. Yes the upward growth within the US ratings wise and possibly ppv buyrates has not been as high as one would hope with all those names brought in. But TNA's lateral expansion has been big and the total size of their business has increased a lot.

 

Problem is ratings are a tangible thing and the US is their home market and still the biggest market, so it is hard to say what influence those names have had in signing better or more deals with other television networks. And this is not even bringing in sponsorship and other licensing deals.

[SaySo]

Ratings average in the last three years.

 

iMPACT! 2010 AVG 1.03. (w/o Monday ratings, 1.10).

iMPACT! 2009 AVG 1.15.

iMPACT! 2008 AVG 1.06.

iMPACT! 2007 AVG 1.04.

 

Source: http://www.gerweck.net/tv-ratings/2010-ratings/

 

Numbers regard a change in time slot and the additional of another hour of iMPACT.

 

From Wikipedia, i pulled this out.

 

FSN Time Slot (Fri 3pm) AVG 0.3

SPIKE (Sat 11pm) AVG 0.7

SPIKE (Thu 11pm) AVG 0.9

SPIKE (Thu 9pm) AVG 1.0

SPIKE (Thu 9pm 2 hrs) AVG 1.2

SPIKE (Mon 9pm 2 hrs) AVG 0.82

SPIKE (Mon 8pm 2 hrs) AVG 0.78

SPIKE (Thu 9pm 2 hrs) AVG 1.2

[Stennick]

That only shows an increase of .13 in ratings. At any rate there is no need to look at averages. We know that the 1.26 they popped is one of their biggest all time ratings. Since 06 they have steadily had right around a 1.1 or so. Their biggest bumps in the ratings before this year have been when Sting came in bringing them to 1.0 on a consistent basis and when Angle showed up it bumped up to 1.1 those are the only two signings I have ever seen have an impact on the ratings. In fact now that I think about it , what did Hogan's TNA's debut do? Was his TNA debut the Monday night 2.6 rating?

 

Hyde you bring up a good point about the international market. I have no idea the goings on in that market and what those names have to do with that. Most of them had a purpose at one time.

 

Team 3D have been there since what 05/6? Sting's been there since the same, Nash has been there the longest. Angle was a scary move at first (due to his addiction problems that cost him his WWE job) but a good move.

 

I see the Foley signing, I hear about Helms, Moore, TWGTT, Mickie James all signing and I say that those guys are going to be triple what more talented guys on the indy scene are going to be. Do people recognize them? Sure but what does it matter when their going to watch despite knowing or not knowing the guys. The ECW thing I get, they might have actually turned a profit on the last pay per view when you look at how little they paid the talent compared to television ratings and I would imagine roughly the same ppv buyrate as always.

 

However that being said I don't know much about their international markets and just how visible their brand is outside of the United States.

 

Right in in 2010 they are moving forward, they have shown their capable of compelling television, the ratings have bumped up, they seem to have a somewhat focused main event.

 

If I were them I would not resign Nash for what he is making now. Same with Team 3D and same with a lot of these guys. Stop talking about the future guys like Styles and Joe and the MCMG being the future and just do it. I've been hearing about "the future" since 2000 WCW and I've yet to see anyone truly pull the trigger on it. I want to stop hearing "youth, young, new blood" and I just want to start seeing it. Stop talking about passing the torch and give me Jay Lethal vs. A.J Styles for the TNA Championship, give me more MCMG vs. Beer Money, re invent the X Division.

[Eisen-verse]

Stop talking about the future guys like Styles and Joe and the MCMG being the future and just do it. I've been hearing about "the future" since 2000 WCW and I've yet to see anyone truly pull the trigger on it. I want to stop hearing "youth, young, new blood" and I just want to start seeing it. Stop talking about passing the torch and give me Jay Lethal vs. A.J Styles for the TNA Championship, give me more MCMG vs. Beer Money, re invent the X Division.

 

100% agree with you here. Yes, It's cool to see WWE castaways make a potential impact on the industry with TNA; however, at some point, I really just want to see new characters. We've been force-fed the same names, and faces, for the last 10 years and I, for one, would love to see Styles vs. Lethal. Bring that 'next wave' into the fold right now.

 

Also, I agree with the X-Division needing to be re-invented. It could be a great asset for them; however, as we all know, fans have been saying that for years.

[Hyde Hill]

Does not really need re inventing so to speak but needs to be put more on the forefront again. Still kind of hard to do with all that talent and all those titles compared to their television time. Hope Williams and Lethal feud for it, which then transitions into a Lethal Kaz feud and then a Daniels Kaz/Lethal one hehe.

[Stennick]

See I think Lethal is above the X Division title. The guy has been feuding with Ric Flair or was.

 

A.J should win this title and Lethal should feud with A.J

 

Kaz should be in the television title hunt

 

The X Division title is great but part of the fun of the X Division title for me has always been fresh faces.

 

Jay Lethal has shown he can hang with the big boys.

 

The X Division title has been virtually meaningless since Joe/A.J/Daniels were feuding for it in 05.

 

In a fantasy world they would use one of these t.v specials for the X Division. Have the X Division title wind up in controversy and have a one night, all out tournament for it on like a Saturday night. I'd like to see greater focus, a more clear idea of who is even in it, and have it defended along with the Television title every show.

 

The X Division is one thing they have that the WWE doesn't. Push it to the forefront and use it as a vehicle to not only gain new viewers but introduce those viewers to new faces.

[Hyde Hill]

This goes back to the whole title prestige vs prestige of the holder. If they want to re increase the titles prestige they need to have someone with a higher prestige fight over it. Lethal as you said has a higher prestige then the title's prestige atm. Once that has happened you can have the 'fresh' faces feud with the eventual winner Eckos and or Strong are good candidates.

[Stennick]

To each their own but if I'm pushing Lethal towards the main event and I give him the X Division title, if I want fresh faces eventually somebody beats him for that X Division Championship that isn't "on par" with the main event level.

 

Like I said to each their own but I don't like my main event guys taking losses to my lower card guys. I see the X Division title much the same way as the Cruiserweight title. Its a great jumping off point but its not the destination for the workers.

[Self]

Personally I've always wanted to see the X-Division like the Lightweight division of UFC. Smaller guys who you kinda know would get creamed by the heavyweight dudes, but that fact isn't shoved in our faces. They're a separate entity, which allows a few of them to look dominant and therefore become stars. It's the belt that truly separate them from the competition, so I'd push it hard.

 

I'd have Lethal headline it. Williams & Kaz as direct challengers. Bring in a bunch of new guys at the lower end of the division, because I too enjoy fresh faces.