The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Gouge]

know what I think the problem was? They where trying waaaay too hard... I mean if Zack Ryder can pull it off.... These guys I assume aren't from Jersey, or the area... and are trying to imitate the whole scene. I was hoping someone would come out and end them right then on the spot...

 

Yeah that's the problem I had with it. It was soooo forced and just ended up looking completely stupid. Everyone knows, or has an idea, of the show they're spoofing. (And if you don't... I envy you!) Why they feel they need to shove it down our throats so obviously at every turn of the corner is beyond me. I'm already sick of it despite it only being 3 minutes old, lol

 

I thought TNA was bleh. Flair/Foley was really the only stand out match and I mean... come on, how many times have seen that match in TNA? It was your typical TNA blood bath. The toss off the stage through a table, the back body drop onto the tacks, the plastic barbed wire, we got it all.

 

Having not watched TNA since the Spring, I had absolutely zero idea of what was going on. It was extremely hard to figure out what the point of people screaming at each other about.... things were. That Nash/Sting/Pope/Bischoff promo felt like I walked into a group of people mid-conversation. The storylines they have seem to be way too complex for the average fan to follow. I guess if you've been watching every week it'd be easier, but for someone like me just tuning in, it's a turn off. I don't want to have to look up what they're talking about on the internet.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah that's the problem I had with it. It was soooo forced and just ended up looking completely stupid. Everyone knows, or has an idea, of the show they're spoofing. (And if you don't... I envy you!) Why they feel they need to shove it down our throats so obviously at every turn of the corner is beyond me. I'm already sick of it despite it only being 3 minutes old, lol

 

I thought TNA was bleh. Flair/Foley was really the only stand out match and I mean... come on, how many times have seen that match in TNA? It was your typical TNA blood bath. The toss off the stage through a table, the back body drop onto the tacks, the plastic barbed wire, we got it all.

 

Having not watched TNA since the Spring, I had absolutely zero idea of what was going on. It was extremely hard to figure out what the point of people screaming at each other about.... things were. That Nash/Sting/Pope/Bischoff promo felt like I walked into a group of people mid-conversation. The storylines they have seem to be way too complex for the average fan to follow. I guess if you've been watching every week it'd be easier, but for someone like me just tuning in, it's a turn off. I don't want to have to look up what they're talking about on the internet.

 

Yeah but for me the incessant recap's done by others turn me off. Plus it would mean even less time for matches and storyline development.

 

If you want to know the stories, watch the show or ask.

 

What TNA could/should do is put a story so far part on their website detailing the past of current running story-lines.

[brashleyholland]

Hard to take that as evidence given all the other stuff that has gone on like the Monday move and the possible substitution of the old fan-base with a new one over time etc.

 

Possible this, probably that, blah blah blah. I don't know much about wrestling, but I know this...

 

If I make a chocolate bar with fruit and nuts in it, then all of a sudden I take the nuts out and there is no immediate, discernible decrease in the number of people buying my bar, then guess what? Nobody, or only an insignificant number of people, cared about the nuts.

 

Sure, I could be using a different kind of chocolate or different fruit...but unless a % of my customer base evaporates when the nuts go, then the nuts weren't what was making people buy the bar.

 

On a slightly related note, "Fruit and Nuts" would be a great name for the EY/OJ tag team.

 

The question is: "If the X Division was featured more prominently would the rating's have been higher?"

 

No, because when it was, they weren't.

[Self]

On a slightly related note, "Fruit and Nuts" would be a great name for the EY/OJ tag team.

 

That's the best thing anyone's posted in this thread for days!

 

I'm tired of arguing the benefits of the X-Division. I'd love it to be vibrant and heavily featured, but if TNA don't want to do that, I'm not going to complain. Plenty of awesome high-flying wrestling out there on the indies I can watch instead of Impact.

 

Passive Aggression. Take that, Dixie!

[juggaloninjalee]

know what I think the problem was? They where trying waaaay too hard... I mean if Zack Ryder can pull it off.... These guys I assume aren't from Jersey, or the area... and are trying to imitate the whole scene. I was hoping someone would come out and end them right then on the spot...

 

Yeah I wanted someone to run out and demolish them. Too bad Samoa Joe is in a storyline or he would have been perfect.

 

I agree the KISS method of "Keep It Simple Stupid" is the way to go. Nobody likes to watch something half way in because they don't understand what is going on and why it is happening.

[Fleisch]

Impact was amazing........ly bad. This is the show before the so called "Major PPV of the year" and it blew chunks. I see people on here saying Rob Eckos & Becky Bayless (sorry I honestly can't even remember their gimmick names) are supposed to be spoofing something, but what the hell they are spoofing I don't know so it just came across goofy and ridiculous instead of entertaining. Maybe it means something in the States, but in the Uk I just found myself going "WTF is this crap?"

 

I may read the BFG by Roald Dahl instead of watching TNA's "BFG" because if that's their hype show God help us! Little wrestling (and what in ring action there was, was f'n awful) too much talk/recaps etc, lets not forget wrestling is supposed to be the main focus of a "wrestling show" not bulls*** promo's that lead to nothing... I am closer than ever to giving up completely on wrestling in general because whether it be Raw, Smackdown or Impact, I never get to the end of the show they are all terrible. Even turned off after match 1 on Raw because it was so dire.

[Astil]

By the way.

 

Pinnacle of stupid.

 

The paper to 'fire Abyss' wasn't to 'fire Abyss' it was to 'give Eric control of the company'.

 

Dixie signed w/o reading.

 

If this is true I may actually stop watching a show that features Jeff Hardy, Pope and Anderson: My 3 favorite wrestlers.

[Gouge]

Impact was amazing........ly bad. This is the show before the so called "Major PPV of the year" and it blew chunks. I see people on here saying Rob Eckos & Becky Bayless (sorry I honestly can't even remember their gimmick names) are supposed to be spoofing something, but what the hell they are spoofing I don't know so it just came across goofy and ridiculous instead of entertaining. Maybe it means something in the States, but in the Uk I just found myself going "WTF is this crap?"

 

They were spoofing Jersey Shore, another one of those awful VH1/MTV (I don't know which) "reality shows" that basically follows the guido sub-culture in New Jersey. Their names are pretty much identical to two of the cast members ala Cookie/Snookie, Robbie E/Pauly D. No thought put into it at all.

[Hyde Hill]

By the way.

 

Pinnacle of stupid.

 

The paper to 'fire Abyss' wasn't to 'fire Abyss' it was to 'give Eric control of the company'.

 

Dixie signed w/o reading.

 

If this is true I may actually stop watching a show that features Jeff Hardy, Pope and Anderson: My 3 favorite wrestlers.

 

Meh, pretty standard plot devise, especially given the emotional state Dixie was in. It all depends on who "They" will be.

[SaySo]

10/7 Impact Ratings and Heyman goes into detail about his TNA Plans

 

10/7 Impact Ratings

 

Credit - PWTorch

 

Last night's live Impact special on Spike TV scored a 1.33 rating off a first hour 1.32 rating and second hour 1.33 rating.

 

We'll have follow-up with a detailed quarter-hour ratings report later tonight. The following are some key highlights from the ratings:

 

-- Overall: 1.33 rating; First Hour: 1.32, Second Hour: 1.33.

 

-- Quarter-hour peak: 1.44 in Q5 for the post-match of Flair-Foley with Fortune's run-in and EV2's involvement, then Eric Bischoff threatening to "fire" Abyss.

 

-- Quarter-hour low: 1.27 in Q7 for "The Shore" debut and the beginning of the Battle Royal.

 

-- Quarter-hours 6-8 (10:15 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. EST) all scored below the 1.33 overall show average.

 

-- Males 18-34 demographic: up to 1.00 vs. a 0.70 rating last week. It upped Impact's average m18-34 demo rating to a 0.70 since Impact returned to Thursday nights in May.

 

Heyman Goes into Detail about his TNA Plans

 

Credit: nodq.com

 

In an interview with MMAFighting.com, Paul Heyman goes into detail about what he had planned for TNA if he had joined the promotion:

 

"It came real close with TNA. To me, it was more of a deal with Spike TV and then a stock and ownership deal involving TNA. I had a five-year plan. I was going to spend 18 months building the roster, the next 18 months exploiting that built roster, that's three years in, go public in three, stay for two more running it and get out at 50 [years old]. That was my plan. I had an exit plan. I had a five-year plan and I clued everyone into it. I told TNA what my plan was and I told Spike TV what my plan was and how we would capitilaze on it and how we would make this thing move and an acknowledgement that wrestling is a diminishing market and it's not perceived as cool and here's how you, if not change course, at least present it differently so that at least you have a chance in today's marketplace to at least compete."

 

"When that didn't happen, that was it. I didn't have any other interest in doing it. It was close. I would have done it for that particular deal and that's it. That time passed. Now I'm looking at taking my abilities elsewhere and the logical step for me is this entry point right now both into MMA and into also just the branding world."

[TracyBrooksFan]

Was there at the show live so dont know how the abyss and dixie segment came off on tv but god i hope they didnt get dixie facial expressions on tv. We saw her smiling and not scared most the time.

 

Mickie pop was BIG and LOUD and man she looked good.

 

The shore well was crapped on BIG TIME and well deserved.

[Astil]

Was there at the show live so dont know how the abyss and dixie segment came off on tv but god i hope they didnt get dixie facial expressions on tv. We saw her smiling and not scared most the time.

 

Mickie pop was BIG and LOUD and man she looked good.

 

The shore well was crapped on BIG TIME and well deserved.

 

She was smiling on TV.

 

We also saw the fan grab Mick's "Barbed Wire Board"

[Hyde Hill]

She was smiling on TV.

 

We also saw the fan grab Mick's "Barbed Wire Board"

 

Lol I missed that second one, where about did that happen?

 

And yeah Dixie can't act worth.........

[Astil]

Lol I missed that second one, where about did that happen?

 

And yeah Dixie can't act worth.........

 

He grabs it when Mick pulls it out from under the ring. They cut away, but you can see see him looking at his not cut hand and laughing.

[Bigpapa42]

I thought Impact last night was quite poor. Very disappointing. I won't go through it all, as much of much points of concern have been mentioned. It did serve to reinforce my expectation that "They" will severely disappoint, after the degree of hype they've been given and how this is apprently a storyline planned a long time ago. In fact, I would wager a guess that "They" won't even be revealed at Bound for Glory - "the day that changes everything" - and it will end up feeling like another bait n' switch. And then I'll be done with TNA. I'm sure they don't care, but I can find my wrestling entertainment elsewhere.

 

Meh, pretty standard plot devise, especially given the emotional state Dixie was in. It all depends on who "They" will be.

 

That kind of reinforces the concern, Hyde. The moment may turn out to be nothing, or a really small moment... But if it does turn out to be a big moment - as it likely seems to be - it is very predictable. And that says an awful lot.

 

Lol I missed that second one, where about did that happen?

 

And yeah Dixie can't act worth.........

 

No, she can't. And that begs the question of why they have here on TV constantly. It almost begins to feel like Impact is a vanity project for the lady, and that is a rather significant annoyance as a viewer.

 

I know the counter-point is that Vince McMahon made himself a champion in the WWE. But Vince was a great character who made a great heel who become a key part of a classic feud. I'm not a fan of some of the stuff that was done - because it definitely felt like ego was behind some of it - but McMahon was quite simply one of the premier heels of that era... and he still is, when he wants to be.

 

Whether its due to her really poor acting or some fairly poor writing, TNA hasn't really given me much reason to care about Dixie Carter. She got credit for bringing back EV2.0... which I would love her for that if I really really wanted to see those guys carriyng a PPV in 2010... and I didn't. It would appear that they are going with her as the victim of Bischoff "stealing the company from her" and that's a storyline that could work decently if fans truly cared about Dixie. I doubt most do, because why should they?

[Hyde Hill]

Meh I wouldn't mind much but if some find it too predictable fine. If they Bait and Switch "They" that would be worse then an NWO type reunion imho. Even worse then voices in Abyss's head.

[Bigpapa42]

Meh I wouldn't mind much but if some find it too predictable fine. If they Bait and Switch "They" that would be worse then an NWO type reunion imho. Even worse then voices in Abyss's head.

 

Its not the idea of that storyline is terrible in of itself. Its that going with that type of approach would simply confirm my belief - which I stated a couple pages ago - that Hogan and Bischoff are simply incapable of being creative, original, or even doing things in a fresh manner. Its not the fact of reusing old storylines - as was stated, that is done all the time. Its making those old storylines seem somewhat fresh in how you present them. TNA does not manage that and it seems they don't even attempt to. Using very predictable plot points - possibly major plot points - is just indicitive of what I see as an overall creative problem with TNA at this point.

[Hyde Hill]

Its not the idea of that storyline is terrible in of itself. Its that going with that type of approach would simply confirm my belief - which I stated a couple pages ago - that Hogan and Bischoff are simply incapable of being creative, original, or even doing things in a fresh manner. Its not the fact of reusing old storylines - as was stated, that is done all the time. Its making those old storylines seem somewhat fresh in how you present them. TNA does not manage that and it seems they don't even attempt to. Using very predictable plot points - possibly major plot points - is just indicitive of what I see as an overall creative problem with TNA at this point.

 

More an overall problem everywhere but I get what you are getting at. The ReAction cam perspective is fresh though and I like it. The cutting down of the number of segments to make Impact feel less rushed and give stuff more importance is also well done. And there is other good stuff. Unfortunately there has also been a lot of bad stuff hehe.

 

I think the main problems have been Bischoff's fandom of controvesy: OJ, Shore.

 

Hogan's fandom of nostalgia and big men: Terry, Band, Nasties etc

 

Russo writing for Hogan and writing in general: Focus on him, convoluted storylines etc.

 

 

Papa you alluded to Fourtune not feeling fresh well I like Fourtune and alluding to the Legacy of The Four Horseman. But I look at Fourtune as an Evolution of the Horseman. Problem is TNA should make that more clear. (puns intended).

 

Same with Keep It Simple Stupid. It's not exactly keep it simple but keep it clear. Complicated = OK, Convoluted = bad.

 

Simple example is AJ with the T.V. title. He suggested he would defend it ala TV title and then preceded to not do so. Right now it's just weird.

If he or via an other medium would explain something along the lines of I am too good to defend it each week, fans are not worthy of seeing me wrestle each week etc. It would be a basic Heel move and garner heat. This would take 2/3 seconds. Now it's just left up in the air.

[Bigpapa42]

The logic disconnects and the justifications... Those are things that TNA far too often miss. Given the creative minds they have, I just don't understand it...

 

I'm not going to try to claim the WWE is fresh. They are often no better in terms of doing new things and/or being innovative. But they can do it when they can be bothered - look at Nexus. At its basic, its not a new idea at all. Its something that's been done numerous times. Yet by who they used, how they brought them in, and the initial Nexus angle, they made it feel fresh and unique.

 

Presented right, Fortune could have felt like a true evolution of the Horsemen. But by trying to focus on the connection to the Horsemen off the start, it made it feel like a ripoff. Having Flair do the angle where he compared each of them to a Horsemen - unfavorably - didn't really help either. I got the point of it, but it came off badly. Look at it this way - at its basis, Evolution wasn't that different from the Horsemen. Different roles, sure, but a stable of four talented workers with a singular focus where one of the primary goals is helping "the best in the world" hang onto the world title? Yet did they come across as little more than a new Horsemen? Not to most. In large part because the WWE made sure they kept the focus on what made them different. If Evolution had started with the four of them flashing Horsemen hand signs, I have real doubts Evolution would have become what it did.

 

So where Hogan and Bischoff are really failing, I believe, is not in redoing old storylines. Its in making no effort to make those old storylines seem like something new or different at all.

[Bigpapa42]

Sorry to double post, but I posted this on another forum the other day and thought I would repost it here. Just some thoughts about how TNA's overall approach might be questionable, given their long-term goal.

 

I've read a few online columns that touched on this idea to some extent, so I'm not claiming much original thought. The argument is basically that in contemporary professional wrestling, there really is no such thing as a "draw". Not in the traditional sense from the territorial days. Back then, the presence of one big name draw could make a huge difference in house gates, which was the primary lifeblood of those promotions. So one big star could very seriously affect the fortunes of a promotion. Even into the late 80s and early 90s, that basic system still existed on a national level.

 

That is no longer is the case, it would seem. Within the contemporary WWE, which is a global monstrosity of a corporation, the idea of an individual worker being a real draw seems to be obsolete. The "brand extension" era really created the "brand identity" era, where the WWE brand itself became the draw. Take John Cena, who is generally regarded as the most popular worker in the business and is a huge money-maker for the WWE in terms of merchandise. But is he a draw in the traditional sense of the term? It would seem not. Based on anything I've ever seen, there is no notable drop in business (TV ratings, PPV buy rates, even house gates) for the WWE when Cena is not on-screen for a period of time. The same for Randy Orton, Edge, Triple H, The Undertaker, Big Show… It seems that the WWE has succeeded in bulding themselves up as a brand where it’s the WWE name itself that sells. The UFC is much the same - they can be guaranteed 300k buys for any domestic-based PPV, pretty much regardless of the card.

 

Now, this is not to say that name value is now meaningless in the WWE. Its not. The WWE couldn't lose all of its upper midcard card and main event without faltering. Rather, the point is simply that in a corporation where the name value of the brand is the key factor, the individual wrestler can have less of an effect - positive or negative - on business than in the past.

 

So, how does this pertain to TNA? Well, it makes me question their entire business approach. Throughout its existence, TNA have clearly looked for big names, presumably with the idea that they would "draw" the way big names did in the past. Sting and Kurt Angle were undoubtedly two big names in the business. The Hogan/Bischoff era brought in two of the biggest names in the history of the business (Hogan and Flair, although in nominally non-wrestling roles) along with some other "name" talent - Rob Van Dam, Jeff Hardy, Mr. Anderson, etc. Has there been positive growth because of it? Given that TNA does not release PPV buy rates, it limits the amount of information there is to analyze. Factor in that TNA doesn't really tour in the same manner the WWE does and it basicaly leaves TV ratings. The TV ratings would say that TNA is really no further ahead than a year ago.

 

The question becomes - has TNA taken the wrong approach? Should TNA be emulating the WWE? Not in terms of product (they already are) or talent (again, they are trying), but in terms of building brand indentity in an effort to gain a larger market share? It’s a more modern business approach than a typical professional wrestling mindset… but that might be what's required in a modern wrestling marketplace.

 

TNA under Hogan and Bischoff - and even before an extent - has systematically eliminated or de-empahsized nearly everything that was uniquely TNA. The six-sided ring, the X-Division, the women's division that actually focsed on wrestling, the home-grown talent… In many ways, TNA has reduced is unique identity as a brand, seemingly in an effort to be more "WWE-like" in the product it presents. This could actually be counter-productive to finding succes... and ultimately ironic, if TNA is really missing the point of what the WWE has accomplished...

 

It should be no surprise that Hogan and Bischoff have approached things from an old school point of view. Both come from an era where names drew. Its what they know. Its why TNA has had such a focus on bringing in wrestlers with "name value". Its why TNA seems set, under Hogan and Bischoff, to redo so much of what has already been done… With a full nine months and no real clear success yet, one has to wonder if it’s the approach as a whole which is simply wrong.

 

I recall reading a comment that wrestling promoter's are often guilty of being short-sighted. They often look for the short-term solution, to what is going to bring in the bigger crowd next week, without consideration to what is going to work down the road or the consequences of what is done today. That, in essense, is what TNA seems to be doing with the focus on "name value". They are looking for someone to turn things around now and make them truly competitive with the WWE immediately. The problem is that "someone" does not exist anymore. And the ones from the past are not only unlikely to join TNA, but its arguable as to whether they would have the desired affect anyway.

 

The point of all this isn't trying to critize TNA or point out "what they are doing wrong". Its moreso an attempted examination of where their overall approach might be faulted and how it could potentially be altered. Its intended to engender some discussion. So I am curious what other fans think.

[Hyde Hill]

Nice stuff and agree to a large degree but you know that from all the brand identity and awareness etc posts I have made. Could you link the OP? Would be interesting to see the reactions.

[Bigpapa42]

Nice stuff and agree to a large degree but you know that from all the brand identity and awareness etc posts I have made. Could you link the OP? Would be interesting to see the reactions.

 

I don't think anyone has commented on it since I wrote it and posted it on the other site. Only about a day ago. Got some rep out of it, but that's all so far...

[ampulator]

I don't mind TNA being Mainstream, as much as it's trying to be Mainstream AND not Mainstream at the same time.

 

It's product it's undefinable. That's one thing they have in common with WCW. They try to be everything to everyone, and in the end, they WILL becomeing nothing to no-one.

 

TNA needs to define WHO they are. That ONE THING, regardless of what changes, is what they will almost ever will be. For WWE, this was obvious... they were always going to be a Mainstream wrestling promotion. Regardless of what else they add... tradionalism, comedy, cult, risque, hardcore... maybe modern, and lucha libre later on, they are, and almost always will ever be, a Mainstream wreslting promotion.

 

Can't say the say about TNA. I have no idea what they are trying to be. It's as if they are trying to be several different things at once, and it's not working out. I have no problem with TNA being Mainstream, but at some point, it needs to decide what their defining quality is.

 

As for brand issues... that only works so far. It doesn't really work that well in wrestling, unless you are the top dog. Does TNA have brand issues? Yes. But the brand issue is a minor issue compared to TNA's other issues.

[Bigpapa42]

Actually amp, "building the brand" and finding a specific identity are pretty much linked directly. They are not the same thing, but you can't really build your product's brand without having a clear understanding and vision of what your product is. And right now, TNA is trying to be everything. Their identity seems to be "alternative to the WWE" and that is really no identity at all.

[cappyboy]

Actually amp, "building the brand" and finding a specific identity are pretty much linked directly. They are not the same thing, but you can't really build your product's brand without having a clear understanding and vision of what your product is. And right now, TNA is trying to be everything. Their identity seems to be "alternative to the WWE" and that is really no identity at all.

 

So what you're saying is that they are VWA with a greater reach?