The Official ROH Discussion Thread

[Arrows]

I agree entirely on how awesome that would've been.

 

>From everything I've heard and read, the masks were planned because of said contract. They were going to try and get around it by not showing them. Knowing TNA, it would've worked.

[1234]

I expect ROH will allow them to continue under the masks and have a short feud with The Briscoes, before they get unmasked and killed one final time by 'Dem Boys'.

 

Would have been interesting to see how the originally planned team could have worked under masks, especially considering Chris Sabins current circumstance.

[Stennick]

Did people during the show know it was the Headbangers or did news come out after the match? I can't see them lasting the chants will kill them I would imagine.

[Arrows]

Did people during the show know it was the Headbangers or did news come out after the match? I can't see them lasting the chants will kill them I would imagine.

 

The fans were chanting MOSH AND THRASHER during the opening part of the match, pre FIX THE ROPES chants. Best fans in the world there. They knew instantly.

[Stennick]

I'll have to find pictures somewhere was it THAT obvious it was them? Maybe there were leaks before the show that it was going to be the. Kind of a strange idea really with ALL the tag teams out there indy and other wise they seem pretty far down on the scale of interest.

[Arrows]

I'll have to find pictures somewhere was it THAT obvious it was them? Maybe there were leaks before the show that it was going to be the. Kind of a strange idea really with ALL the tag teams out there indy and other wise they seem pretty far down on the scale of interest.

 

Leaning towards it leaking/someone seeing them there pre-show and it getting around. It took no time at all for the fans to start on them.

[The Final Countdown]

I had a noteworthy development from last night's TV tapings spoiled for me (by ROH's own Facebook page, actually.) I won't go into details, but I definitely approve. The booking of ROH is really falling into place as of late, IMO.

[Lo-Drew]

Who is just as happy as I am that ANX are finally tag champs? Both have improved so much over the years, especially Titus and they deserve those title and hopefully they reign for a long time.

[TakerNGN74]

Who is just as happy as I am that ANX are finally tag champs? Both have improved so much over the years, especially Titus and they deserve those title and hopefully they reign for a long time.

 

I agree with you completely, the first time I saw them was on ROH TV (Have followed the TV show since the beginning having never missed an episode). I mean before they had the TV deal I would check out their stuff on DVDs but now I am really happy that they have a TV deal so I can see them each and every week in the comfort of my own home.

 

Anyways the first time I saw ANX I liked them and every time I saw them wrestle I liked them more and more(Kind of like Tomasso Ciampa because I am really high on him as well) I am really happy they are the tag team champions because they definately deserve it and hopefully they will keep it for a while because it seemed for a while that the tag titles were getting thrown around (between The Briscoes and WGTT) for a while which I never like but it happens so whatever.

[BHK1978]

Who is just as happy as I am that ANX are finally tag champs? Both have improved so much over the years, especially Titus and they deserve those title and hopefully they reign for a long time.

 

Yeah I hope they keep the tag belts for a bit because ROH has changed their tag team champions a little too much for my liking. I like longer title reigns but it seems like the tag belts have changed every other week (I know that is not the case.).

[Arrows]

Yeah I hope they keep the tag belts for a bit because ROH has changed their tag team champions a little too much for my liking. I like longer title reigns but it seems like the tag belts have changed every other week (I know that is not the case.).

 

Kings drop the belts to WGTT - April 1, 2011

 

WGTT to Briscoes - December 23, 2011

 

Briscoes to WGTT - May 12, 2012

 

WGTT to ANX - June 24, 2012

 

Might seem like more than it really has been because of the final two being a month apart, but even before these, the Kings held the belts just shy of a year.

[Arrows]

ROH-Kenny King Update

 

The appearance of ROH wrestler Kenny King on another television wrestling program tonight has raised speculation on his future as well as how this appearance could occur.

 

The contract Kenny King signed in June 2011 expired 11 days ago. Before that expiration, an agreement was reached between Kenny and ROH management for an extension of that contract, with a provision to allow him to negotiate with any other promotions so that he could evaluate his options and any potential interest in him elsewhere. When that short extension concluded he would then be free to accept an offer elsewhere, or sign another long term contract with ROH. Under this agreement, Kenny was free to negotiate but not to wrestle for another organization without ROH's permission.

 

When Kenny was presented with the written extension reflecting this verbal and handshake agreement, he informed ROH he was unsure if other promotions would accept the negotiation clause. He was told he could take the document to be examined by his attorney or other interested parties before executing it to be reassured any other offers would not be viewed as contract tampering. He also informed ROH that he would keep us apprised of any developments.

 

He contacted ROH on Tuesday July 3 to inform us that he had a meeting in Orlando on Thursday, July 5, which was within the scope of the agreement he had made. Then, early morning on July 5, he contacted an ROH official to say he would be wrestling on the Orlando event that night. He was told he did not have permission to appear live on television as it violated the agreement that had been made. His response was that the deal he had shaken hands on and agreed to in principle "seemed fair at the time", but "others" had told him it was not, so he did not intend to honor it.

 

Ring of Honor is disappointed that Kenny has chosen to make this decision, after the company had agreed to and followed through on everything he had asked for at the time of our negotiation. However, we consider this breach of his verbal agreement unacceptable, and regardless of his future employment status with any other wrestling company, ROH will not be doing business with Kenny King going forward.

 

A statement from ROH will be forthcoming regarding the future of the ROH World Tag Team Championship. Co-holder Rhett Titus remains on the active ROH roster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Needless to say, not looking very good for ANX. Thoughts?

[Hyde Hill]

Win for TNA bad for ROH in short.

[The Final Countdown]

I don't fault Kenny for jumping to TNA, but if ROH's statement is truthful, I don't like the way he did so. But I have to ask: why on Earth would they put the titles on ANX if Kenny wasn't under an actual, written contract? Wasn't that the whole point of why they stopped pushing Generico...because he didn't want to sign a contract?

 

When you combine this fiasco with the cancelled shows in the Carolinas and the fact that they stopped booking the Young Bucks and TJP presumably to save money, ROH's future is starting to look pretty murky to me.

[Arrows]

I don't fault Kenny for jumping to TNA, but if ROH's statement is truthful, I don't like the way he did so. But I have to ask: why on Earth would they put the titles on ANX if Kenny wasn't under an actual, written contract? Wasn't that the whole point of why they stopped pushing Generico...because he didn't want to sign a contract?

 

When you combine this fiasco with the cancelled shows in the Carolinas and the fact that they stopped booking the Young Bucks and TJP presumably to save money, ROH's future is starting to look pretty murky to me.

 

Hadn't heard about the Carolina shows being cancelled. Fascinating, given I live in NC, and was planning to attend the show. I can't grasp why they put the titles on ANX either, I guess they were trying to get him to sign by doing so, but that's never a good play. Never put the power in the wrestlers hands by giving them a title without a contract. ALWAYS ends badly.

 

I find this interesting, given the discussion up the page. Gonna miss ROH if it passes on to the land of dead feds. There's nothing that'll take it's place. Maybe some rich guy'll decide to put Chikara on as a Saturday morning cartoon or some such nonsense and save us all from the death of good wrestling programming.

[BHK1978]

But I have to ask: why on Earth would they put the titles on ANX if Kenny wasn't under an actual, written contract?

 

My thoughts exactly. In fact when I saw him on Impact I was wondering what the hell was going on. I told my father, who only watches TNA and refuses to watch anything else, that the guy that won the last match is one-half of the TNA Tag Champions, and he asked me why he was even on Impact.

 

Well I guess now I know why and I guess the Tag belts are going to be changing hands once again.

 

I like Kenny King a lot, I have been able to watch him at live shows and when he works as a heel he knows how to get the crowd going. I hope he does great in TNA.

 

I will say that this makes ROH look like a bush league promotion, when they have guys pull stuff like this on them.

[The Final Countdown]

Hadn't heard about the Carolina shows being cancelled. Fascinating, given I live in NC, and was planning to attend the show.

Yup, I believe they announced that within the last week or so. They said it was due to a scheduling conflict, but speculation is that it was done because the shows were not likely to be profitable. I'm inclined to believe the latter, considering they abruptly dropped the Bucks and TJP for the summer despite their paper-thin roster. They seem to be going into cost-cutting mode.

[Hyde Hill]

I really hope ROH survives all this though, they should be the top indy and work that niche. Don't think this deal has worked out the way they hoped. Maybe Gabe can buy them back in the future and fuse them with DGUSA and Evolve and go back to pre tv ROH or work a syndicated show instead of "major" network show.

[BHK1978]

Yup, I believe they announced that within the last week or so. They said it was due to a scheduling conflict, but speculation is that it was done because the shows were not likely to be profitable. I'm inclined to believe the latter, considering they abruptly dropped the Bucks and TJP for the summer despite their paper-thin roster. They seem to be going into cost-cutting mode.

 

Yeah I read that it was costing them too much money to fly the Bucks and TJ out from the west coast as well.

 

Mark Madden did a couple of articles on Wrestle Zone talking about this subject. They are here and here. Now I was never a fan of Madden in WCW, but his articles on Wrestle Zone are usually pretty good and I often find myself agreeing with him. You can also read Kevin Kelly's retort to the two Madden articles right here.

[nucleardonkey]

While I don't fault Kenny King for signing with TNA, especially if they were offering more money I absolutely hate the way he did it. He should have verbally agreed to the TNA deal and then returned to ROH long enough to drop the belts. Now if the TNA deal falls through he is screwed. He's not talented enough to overcome his lack of size enough to make it in the WWE and ROH made it very clear they will never work with him again.

 

It's a real shame that someone with such a good upside and such a long career ahead of him has to go burning bridges like that before he even has a chance to build them.

 

As far as the company goes I really don't see them lasting long with business decisions like this. If it's one thing I've learned from TEW it's never put a title on someone when they refuse to negotiate with you, it will always end badly for the company.

[BHK1978]

Spoiler below. Highlight to see.

 

I wonder if TNA signing up Kenny King has something to do with the spoiler in Arrows' post above. Just a thought that if ROH

was trying to do it to TNA while Sabin was still under contract, maybe TNA got wind of it and were looking for a way to screw ROH as revenge.[end of spoiler]

 

Note I removed Arrows' spoiler, if you want to read it just check out the post that I linked to.

[nucleardonkey]

I wonder if TNA signing up Kenny King has something to do with the spoiler in Arrows' post above.

 

Note I removed Arrows' spoiler, if you want to read it just check out the post that I linked to.

 

You know that is actually a good thought. I wouldn't put it past TNA to do something like that. [highlight] Add to that the way TNA treated Sabin last night with the over the top "retirement" speech and attack by Bobby Roode and it really looks like last night's show was all about TNA taking shots at ROH for that.[/end highlight]

[Hyde Hill]

Nah that was just some bs rumor over the net that it was supposed to be the Guns instead of the Headbangers. Has nothing to do with this. They gave Sabin a nice sendoff and an instant feud when/if he comes back. More to do with talent being disgruntled over the whole current direction.

 

ANX shoot teaser talking about it:

 

[Lo-Drew]

Very timely that this comes out with King jumping ships. I will say this, that video may be 3 minutes long, but I completely agree with what King said. I believe ROH has gone away with what has made them them. King brought up the MMA part and I agree with him there as well. The whole Hybird match between Cole and O'Riley and Richards doing that stuff isn't what ROH is. The foundation of ROH has always been on the wrestling aspect and the recent MMA aspect of it I haven't really liked.

 

Right now, ROH doesn't look so good at the moment, but I believe they can ride the storm if they do go back to focusing on what brought them to the dance; wrestling and good storytelling. The roster may be paper thin, but I think they got some guys that can really elevate to the main event level. I was unfamiliar with Elign in the beginning of the year, but from what I've seen from him during the year, he's a stud and to me, a future ROH World Champ. Adam Cole as well. Still don't really have an opinion on O'Riley, a bit turned off again with the MMA aspect of him but i think he can be solid. So I still think they can get out of this, but they have to follow more on the quality of the product like they did before.

[Lo-Drew]

You know what, the more I think about it, the more I side with King. And here's why. ROH knew his contract was expiring before giving him and Titus the titles. That was a risk in itself. ROH had every opportunity to lock him up long term to avoid all of this happening. And then, a "handshake agreement?" For a company that right now its roster is very thin, you have to lock up your important pieces. Kenny King was a very important piece to ROH in the grand scheme of the tag team division and singles wise too potentially. You have to lock him up. ROH should of been in the "you're not leaving this room til you sign a contract extension" type mode with King on Tuesday. But they didn't and they let King explore. That was ROH's mistake there. Now I still disagree with the way King handled everything, but you can't argue with the current direction of ROH and the direction of TNA, who has been very solid the past few months, why he left when given the opportunity.