The Official ROH Discussion Thread

[Jaysin]

The center plate of the new TV Title looks...tiny. It kind of looks like a toy and not a full sized belt.

[D-Lyrium]

Edit: My bad, didn't realise the article was from July. The article that linked to it was from yesterday. ¬_¬ Feel free to ignore this post if this has already been discussed.

 

So, a friend linked me to an article which referenced this article, and I went into it thinking "pfft, Mark Madden is such a dick, this is going to be funny".

 

But, um... it's kinda mostly true. Like, almost entirely true. Some of it is just thinly-veiled insults, which I don't partiuclarly care for (see previous paragraph where Mark Madden is a dick) and I can't vouch for many of the 'facts' he presents, but his analysis of them if they're true is pretty much on the money. Especially concerning Cornette. Everyone talks about him as a "great wrestling mind"... based on what evidence, really?

[Jaysin]

I absolutely hate Mark Madden, but that article seems pretty right on. I'm a fan of some of the talent in ROH, but the ROHbots and poor production quality of their programs really ruin it for me.

 

It's been a really long time since I've given anything a shot though. So, if their production quality has improved past local promotion, I haven't noticed.

 

It was just frustrating watching the HDNet show and realizing the promotions in my area had better production than the supposed Number 3 promotion in the country...

[The Final Countdown]

It was just frustrating watching the HDNet show and realizing the promotions in my area had better production than the supposed Number 3 promotion in the country...

If anything, the production on the Sinclair show is worse than the old HDNet show.

[fullMETAL]

New RoH World Title belt (made by Midwest) accidentally leaked before the actual belt debuts:

http://www.pwponderings.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/newrohworldtitlebelt.jpg

http://www.pwponderings.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/filsingerrevealsnewROHtitledesign1.jpg

 

Thoughts on the new belt?

[Jaysin]

I actually really like it.

[TakerNGN74]

I like what I see of it although we don't know what the sides of the belt will look like.

 

On a side note I pre ordered the ROH game from Filsinger games. I never thought I would be into something like that but my best friend told me about it so I couldn't pass it up.

 

When I get my ROH set from them and when TEW 13 comes out I will have absolutely no life whatsoever.

[Blackman]

I like what I see of it although we don't know what the sides of the belt will look like.

 

On a side note I pre ordered the ROH game from Filsinger games. I never thought I would be into something like that but my best friend told me about it so I couldn't pass it up.

 

When I get my ROH set from them and when TEW 13 comes out I will have absolutely no life whatsoever.

 

There's an ROH game? Nice. Hopefully it won't turn out to be like the TNA one. Though it wasn't horrible, it just wasn't fun imo.

[TakerNGN74]

There's an ROH game? Nice. Hopefully it won't turn out to be like the TNA one. Though it wasn't horrible, it just wasn't fun imo.

 

Sorry if I confused you by not stating exactly what it was, It's not a video game its a table top card game using cards and dice to play so it may or may not be your thing but it intrigued me so I had to buy it.

 

Sorry if I got your hopes up but like I said it's not a video game but rather a table top card game. I don't know if a video game will ever come to fruition for them but if it did it would be cool depending on the developer and the roster.

[The Final Countdown]

I haven't ordered an ROH PPV since Wrestlemania weekend this year, but I'm planning on getting Final Battle on Sunday. I don't see how a Steen/Generico ladder match could fail to deliver, and the show top to bottom looks far stronger than last year's Final Battle.

[20LEgend]

Looks great the hype video got me up for it.

 

(If anyone hasn't seen it.)

[D-Lyrium]

I haven't ordered an ROH PPV since Wrestlemania weekend this year, but I'm planning on getting Final Battle on Sunday. I don't see how a Steen/Generico ladder match could fail to deliver, and the show top to bottom looks far stronger than last year's Final Battle.

 

They have a Steen/Generico ladder match on Final Battle AGAIN? Two years in a row?!

[20LEgend]

They have a Steen/Generico ladder match on Final Battle AGAIN? Two years in a row?!

 

They faced in 2010 at Final Batte but it wasn't a ladder match it was mask vs. career, Steen took on Corino last year.

[The Final Countdown]

They have a Steen/Generico ladder match on Final Battle AGAIN? Two years in a row?!

As 20LEgend mentioned, they wrestled at Final Battle two years ago, but it was in a Fight Without Honor. They've never had a ladder war against each other in ROH, but they did have one in PWG sometime in 2011, which may be what confused you.

[Big Roguey]

Steen/Generico looks really good. Matt Hardy annoys me though for some reason, I want Adam Cole to obliterate him at Final Battle.

[D-Lyrium]

As 20LEgend mentioned, they wrestled at Final Battle two years ago, but it was in a Fight Without Honor. They've never had a ladder war against each other in ROH, but they did have one in PWG sometime in 2011, which may be what confused you.

 

Ah, yeah, my bad. I remembered seeing SteenErico at Final Battle, and I remembered seeing a SteenErico Ladder match last year, and my brain must've combined the two. ¬_¬

 

Still, it's a bit lame to have the same main event twice in three years, when the last time it was supposed to be THE END~! and Steen supposedly "lost" his RoH career. I know how he got back in and all that, but even so... Why Generico again?

[BHK1978]

Ah, yeah, my bad. I remembered seeing SteenErico at Final Battle, and I remembered seeing a SteenErico Ladder match last year, and my brain must've combined the two. ¬_¬

 

Still, it's a bit lame to have the same main event twice in three years, when the last time it was supposed to be THE END~! and Steen supposedly "lost" his RoH career. I know how he got back in and all that, but even so... Why Generico again?

 

Because they really do not have any "name" talent on their roster. I mean who could be put in that match that is credible?

 

Eddie and Davey seemed to have been dropped down to wresting as a tag team again.

 

Rhino and Jay Lethal have just fought Steen and both have lost to him in recent months.

 

I truly think that it is the case that there is just no one left in the company for him to fight, until they decide to move forward with him and Lethal.

[D-Lyrium]

I don't disagree that it's the best they could do right now, I'm just saying, generally, it's pretty cheap. Which I guess is about right for RoH right now. ¬_¬

 

Imagine if WWE had Rock/Hogan at WM20, or if TNA have Daniels/Styles at Final Destination 2014. Or if Flair came back to do Flair/Perfect II in 1995, or Flair/Michaels II at WM28, or Taker/Michaels II at WM30?

 

It's one thing having a loser leaves town match when the loser doesn't, in fact, leave town. That can be explained in any number of ways. But to have a loser leaves town match and then have the exact same match on the same damn show two years later is just... weird. As I said, I can see that they haven't really got any other choice, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. ¬_¬

[bigtplaystew]

I don't know, do you guys watch ROH actively or do you just do the four or five PPVs a year thing? The only story that makes sense is Steen vs Generico. They actually don't do it all that often. They've got an incredible feud, they work well together, and it's got a long-term storyline fans can get into.

 

It's so odd how many net fans (and I'm not commenting on anyone in this thread, just in general) can complain and whine about how WWE has no long-term story lines anymore. Now the alternative listens and tries to put together a match years in the making, and that gets complained about.

 

"Why do they have to do it again?"

 

It's not like Generico and Steen wrestle week in and week out. They wrestle just enough to sell us on the idea that they know each other super well, have a bitter history, and at the huge PPV there will be some type of match to finally settle their feud.

 

Steen's actually had incredible matches against ROH's top tier since he won that belt. Who would you rather see him square off against in a huge match? It's not that they have no choice. Hes been fighting the rest of the choices. This is the match they've chosen to get the real ROH fans excited.

[cappyboy]

And here's another thought on Steen/Generico match. Think about the TV audience. Think about the people who were either totally new to RoH or only started watching the promotion closely since Sinclair came into the picture. Those of us who came in at that time aren't invested in Steen/Generico. Generico isn't on RoH TV enough for there to be an investment there. The TV audience would be much more into Steen/Lethal seeing that we've seen the Rahway match and the fallout from it. Whereas the Steen/Generico history all came before the TV audience was in the picture.

 

Not to mention that the storyline around Jay acquiring a mean streak feels stalled by not letting him at Steen at Final Battle. That's almost as bad a creative move as letting Corino and Jacobs get the tag belts when they held the tourney. Talk about sucking the life out of WGTT/Titus & Whitmer. Of course, Whitmer having the personality of shoe polish doesn't help there either. But removing the title from the feud pretty well killed it dead.

[BHK1978]

And here's another thought on Steen/Generico match. Think about the TV audience. Think about the people who were either totally new to RoH or only started watching the promotion closely since Sinclair came into the picture. Those of us who came in at that time aren't invested in Steen/Generico. Generico isn't on RoH TV enough for there to be an investment there. The TV audience would be much more into Steen/Lethal seeing that we've seen the Rahway match and the fallout from it. Whereas the Steen/Generico history all came before the TV audience was in the picture.

 

Not to mention that the storyline around Jay acquiring a mean streak feels stalled by not letting him at Steen at Final Battle. That's almost as bad a creative move as letting Corino and Jacobs get the tag belts when they held the tourney. Talk about sucking the life out of WGTT/Titus & Whitmer. Of course, Whitmer having the personality of shoe polish doesn't help there either. But removing the title from the feud pretty well killed it dead.

 

I agree with you, I mean before this year I was not able to keep up with ROH on a regular basis. I mean I read about what happened via the internet but I never saw a lot of their stuff. I was there when Steen/Generico won the tag titles but after that they only came to my general area twice a year. When they would come to my area it was to either Boston or Plymouth Mass, which are both about an hour from where I live. So I would go to the shows and have no clue who half the people were but most people would not be willing to do that for a product that they did not get to see on a regular basis. So what you are saying makes perfect sense, it is a go to match for them.

 

I do think that Lethal is by far a bigger star than Generico simply because of his time in TNA. Let's face facts here, despite what people might think of TNA it is still more mainstream than ROH. Therefore, even though they just did the Lethal/Steen match I do think that could have done it again if this is supposed to be their biggest show of the year. He may or may not be getting stale, they could probably drag this out for a little longer if they want, you know just to show Jay's further descent into madness.

 

I liked the comment about Whitmer. Titus is not much on the microphone either. The dude sounds like he has a bag of marbles in his mouth every time he talks.

[TakerNGN74]

I think it actually makes a lot of sense that they are doing Steen Generico II at Final Battle this year. Obviously the whole storyline is that Cornette (even though he isn't on TV right now) is obsessed with making sure that Steen loses the title. Having said that the reason that I believe that it's a good idea to do this match again at Final Battle is because El Generico defeated Steen at Final Battle 2010 and cost him a year of his career. So Cornette believes that if Generico has defeated Steen in the past that lightning will indeed strike twice.

 

The thing that I don't like about this whole thing is that Steen put Generico out of action and all of a sudden Steen pulls Generico's mask out of a box when he was in the ring during an episode of ROH TV (Or maybe it was their latest IPPV correct me if I am wrong) and Generico automatically gets a title shot even though he didn't defeat anyone to earn the shot in the first place. It seems very lazy in my opinion especially going into their final show of the year but I understand why they are doing it but that doesn't mean that I have to like the reasoning behind it.

[Stennick]

I think the whole issue with them possibly starting over to a degree with a new TV deal isn't really a reason for this particular company to start over. TNA essentially hit the reset button on their history the moment they got on Spike TV and I was ok with that because they were in sixty million homes on a weekly basis at a primetime.

 

ROH's entire existence is because of the internet. I honestly don't think I've ever seen an ROH 'mark' in the same way that someone might be a TNA or WWE casual fan. The WWE and TNA both have plenty of fans that aren't scouring the internet looking for the latest match ups, house show runs, etc. ROH doesn't.

 

I get wanting to appeal to a broader audience by hitting the "reset" button (I'm looking at you DC New 52) but this Sinclair thing isn't it essentially just syndicated tv? Its on this channel on this day and time and on this channel on this day and time? Its on Saturday or Sunday's here during football so I've never truly caught anything more than a match or a half a match.

 

There is no reason to hit the reset button when you're in all actuality not really generating much if any of a sustainable new audience not too mention that anytime someone tunes into a new pro wrestling company or tunes into the WWE for the first time in a few years they're immediately thrust into on going storylines and a history they might not be in tune with. I don't think that means that we should always be re setting history or ignoring it or whatever you want to say.

 

I don't know the exacts of Steenerico's storyline but I just don't agree with the theory that its ok since they got a new TV deal and nobody will know they had that match when I guarantee you 99 percent of their audience is people that came on wrestling boards just like this before during and after it. ROH has a fan base loyalty we haven't seen outside of the WWE since ECW.

 

As far as Jay Lethal being a bigger star than Generico I don't know if I can agree with that either. Sure Jay did a stint in TNA but he was relevant there for roughly three months almost three years ago and he's most noted for basically doing the Macho Man gimmick. I would argue that in ROH's world and with their fan base El Generico is the more over star. He's built his own character he's been in the promotion non stop for a half a decade he's had some of the most major storylines in the history of the promotion etc. Jay was a bland X division wrestler before it was discovered he could do the Macho Man gimmick so they used that sparingly for a couple of years before TNA got their act together and figured out how to use the guy properly before giving up on that after three months and releasing him a year later. I'm not saying Jay isn't talented I'm just saying in the world of pro wrestling although Jay's had a higher profile job he's not near as over as an ROHlifer like Generico.

 

Although on a side note I have heard that the WWE atleast knows Generico exists and have even talked about bringing him in. To me Generico going to the WWE would be a bigger wtf moment than Punk Hero and Claudio and Danielson all rolled into one

[BHK1978]

I think it actually makes a lot of sense that they are doing Steen Generico II at Final Battle this year. Obviously the whole storyline is that Cornette (even though he isn't on TV right now) is obsessed with making sure that Steen loses the title. Having said that the reason that I believe that it's a good idea to do this match again at Final Battle is because El Generico defeated Steen at Final Battle 2010 and cost him a year of his career. So Cornette believes that if Generico has defeated Steen in the past that lightning will indeed strike twice.

 

The thing that I don't like about this whole thing is that Steen put Generico out of action and all of a sudden Steen pulls Generico's mask out of a box when he was in the ring during an episode of ROH TV (Or maybe it was their latest IPPV correct me if I am wrong) and Generico automatically gets a title shot even though he didn't defeat anyone to earn the shot in the first place. It seems very lazy in my opinion especially going into their final show of the year but I understand why they are doing it but that doesn't mean that I have to like the reasoning behind it.

 

It is Nigel McGuinness who set this whole thing up from a storyline standpoint. Though his goal is the same as Jim's he wants to get the belt off Steen so that he can bring honor back to the company.

 

Although on a side note I have heard that the WWE atleast knows Generico exists and have even talked about bringing him in. To me Generico going to the WWE would be a bigger wtf moment than Punk Hero and Claudio and Danielson all rolled into one

 

Those were huge WTF moments but the biggest to me was when I heard Brodie Lee had signed a developmental contract with WWE. I just do not get that at all.

 

What ROH really needs to do is bring back Necro Butcher, once he comes back the march towards replacing the WWE as the number one wrestling promotion in the world will have begun.

[20LEgend]

I think the story being McGuinness bringing back Generico as one last throw of the dice is good.

 

Who is the last person to defeat Steen in ROH?

 

Also Kyle O'Reilly on the mic, he sounds like some teen drama actor.