Official NFL Discussion Thread

[jbergey_2005]

<p>AFC NORTH</p><p>

<strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Dolphins 11-5</span></strong></p><p>

<strong>Jets 10-6</strong></p><p>

Patriots 9-7</p><p>

Bills 3-13</p><p> </p><p>

AFC NORTH</p><p>

<strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Ravens 12-4</span></strong></p><p>

Steelers 9-7</p><p>

Bengals 8-8</p><p>

Browns 4-12</p><p> </p><p>

AFC SOUTH</p><p>

<strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Colts 10-6</span></strong></p><p>

<strong>Texans 10-6</strong></p><p>

Titans 9-7</p><p>

Jaguars 7-9</p><p> </p><p>

AFC WEST</p><p>

<strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Chargers 10-6</span></strong></p><p>

Bronco's 7-9</p><p>

Raiders 6-10</p><p>

Chiefs 6-10 </p><p> </p><p>

NFC EAST</p><p>

<strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Cowboys 11-5</span></strong></p><p>

Eagles 8-8</p><p>

Redskins 7-9</p><p>

Giants 6-10</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

NFC NORTH</p><p>

<strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Vikings 11-5</span></strong></p><p>

<strong>Packers 11-5</strong></p><p>

Lions 6-10</p><p>

Bears 5-11</p><p> </p><p>

NFC SOUTH</p><p>

<strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Saints 10-6</span></strong></p><p>

<strong>Falcons 10-6</strong></p><p>

Panthers 9-7</p><p>

Bucs 4-12</p><p> </p><p>

NFC WEST</p><p>

<strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">49ers 10-6</span></strong></p><p>

Seahawks 6-10</p><p>

Cardinals 6-10</p><p>

Rams 5-11</p>

[jbergey_2005]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Remianen" data-cite="Remianen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26529" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> I'm going Vikings-Colts, with Peyton getting ring #2. I'd like to see the Jets get there but they've got crap for talent at the receiver position (after #1). They need 3 viable receivers to be successful with Sanchez and Braylon's hands are suspect and Cotchery is strictly a possession receiver. Can't get to the dance playing catch with Dustin Keller every other down (isn't that right, Tony Romo?).</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I dont usually believe in this kind of thing however its hard to ignore this trend</p><p> </p><p> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_curse" rel="external nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_curse</a></p>

[masterded]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26529" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>NFC SOUTH<p> <strong>Vikings 12-4</strong></p><p> <strong>Packers 12-4</strong></p><p> Bears 6-10</p><p> Lions 2-14</p><p> </p><p> NFC NORTH</p><p> <strong>SAINTS 12-4</strong></p><p> Falcons 8-8</p><p> Panthers 8-8</p><p> Bucs 1-15</p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jbergey_2005" data-cite="jbergey_2005" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26529" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>AFC NORTH<p> </p><p> NFC SOUTH</p><p> <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Vikings 11-5</span></strong></p><p> <strong>Packers 11-5</strong></p><p> Lions 6-10</p><p> Bears 5-11</p><p> </p><p> NFC NORTH</p><p> <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Saints 10-6</span></strong></p><p> <strong>Falcons 10-6</strong></p><p> Panthers 9-7</p><p> Bucs 4-12</p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> What is wrong with this picture...</p>

[jbergey_2005]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="masterded" data-cite="masterded" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26529" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What is wrong with this picture...</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Good find I just copied off of Stenick so Im blaming him:)</p>

[GatorBait19]

<p>Wow two people who believe panthers are a 500 team or better. I think the bucs and panthers battle for the bottom of the south bottom</p><p> </p><p>

I think the saints fall off, not because of deceased talent just the world tour they took and the fact in the NFL its so hard to repeat season after season is so hard. I still think 11 games is what they win</p>

[GruntMark]

So, I went through that picked the games...heres what I came up with.

 

AFC East

Patriots 11 5

Jets 8 8

Dolphins 8 8

Bills 3 13

 

AFC North

Ravens 13 3

Bengals 11 5

Steelers 9 7

Browns 2 14

 

AFC South

Colts 14 2

Texans 11 5

Titans 8 8

Jaguars 4 12

 

AFC West

Chargers 10 6

Raiders 9 7

Broncos 6 10

Chiefs 3 13

 

NFC East

Giants 10 6

Eagles 10 6

Redskins 9 7

Cowboys 9 7

 

NFC South

Saints 13 3

Falcons 11 5

Bucs 3 13

Panthers 3 13

 

NFC North

Packers 13 3

Vikings 11 5

Lions 5 11

Bears 2 14

 

NFC West

Seahawks9 7

49ers 8 8

Cardinals 5 11

Rams 5 11

[GatorBait19]

So, I went through that picked the games...heres what I came up with.

 

AFC East

Patriots 11 5

Jets 8 8

Dolphins 8 8

Bills 3 13

 

AFC North

Ravens 13 3

Bengals 11 5

Steelers 9 7

Browns 2 14

 

AFC South

Colts 14 2

Texans 11 5

Titans 8 8

Jaguars 4 12

 

AFC West

Chargers 10 6

Raiders 9 7

Broncos 6 10

Chiefs 3 13

 

NFC East

Giants 10 6

Eagles 10 6

Redskins 9 7

Cowboys 9 7

 

NFC South

Saints 13 3

Falcons 11 5

Bucs 3 13

Panthers 3 13

 

NFC North

Packers 13 3

Vikings 11 5

Lions 5 11

Bears 2 14

 

NFC West

Seahawks9 7

49ers 8 8

Cardinals 5 11

Rams 5 11

 

I think the 49ers, Jets, Bears, Broncos, and Jags do better then your predicts personally.

 

McDainels has pretty much shown us in a year and a half that it's his way or the highway and so far so good.

 

the 9ers have an improved O-Line for the beast known as Gore to run through. Also they have throwing threats in Davis and Crabtree (as they fight on the field ) that could give Alex Smith a year where he tosses about 20 TD. Their D should be better as well.

 

Bears have had a horrible preseason playing wise, but to me their is to much talent on that team to finish 2-14. I think their biggest issue now is Lovie Smith. I think he is a great D-minded coach, but I don't like him personally as a head coach.

 

Jets are the Jets. I know people talk about Mark is only in his 2nd FULL year as a starting QB, but that is a year where we have seen a bunch of QB improve into a great QB (Manning, McNabb, Schaub, Eli M.) All four had nice running games which helped them. With the talent he has to pass to he should improve nicely from last year. Also Revis will probably come back....... maybe.

 

The Jags are the most interesting team to me out of the 5 I talked about so far. They said goodbye to big John, but I think they have had two nice drafts in a row all together. I think 8-8 isn't out of the question.

 

Also 10-6 for the Eagles is wishful thinking to me. They have lost way to much to instantly be that talented again.

[GruntMark]

Well, like I said, I just went through and picked all the games.

 

I do think this is the year Lovie finally gets run out of Chicago. 2-14 might be extreme, but 4th feels like a likely outcome as the Lions look to be putting the pieces together. Alittle.

 

I dont buy Singletary as a good head coach. Seattle got the edge though mostly from better matchups at home and away than the 49ers. Schedule can determine alot.

 

Jets? Media babies. 8-8 is where they would have landed last year anyway, if Curtis Painters mom had kept it in her pants. And still no Revis.

 

Jags suffer from playing in a stacked division. And I have serious doubts about their current GM. He seems like he's on a quest to prove he is smarter than everyone else by looking for diamonds from small schools. Plus Del Rio is pretty awful and most the offense is on MJD.

 

And the Eagles...they are just very consistent. Obviously is Kolb goes out and blows it, its a different story. But Andy Reid has done a great job building a perenial contender.

[GatorBait19]

Well, like I said, I just went through and picked all the games.

 

I do think this is the year Lovie finally gets run out of Chicago. 2-14 might be extreme, but 4th feels like a likely outcome as the Lions look to be putting the pieces together. Alittle.

 

I dont buy Singletary as a good head coach. Seattle got the edge though mostly from better matchups at home and away than the 49ers. Schedule can determine alot.

 

Jets? Media babies. 8-8 is where they would have landed last year anyway, if Curtis Painters mom had kept it in her pants. And still no Revis.

 

Jags suffer from playing in a stacked division. And I have serious doubts about their current GM. He seems like he's on a quest to prove he is smarter than everyone else by looking for diamonds from small schools. Plus Del Rio is pretty awful and most the offense is on MJD.

 

And the Eagles...they are just very consistent. Obviously is Kolb goes out and blows it, its a different story. But Andy Reid has done a great job building a perenial contender.

 

All great valid points. I guess we will have to see what happens this coming year.

[Remianen]

The Pack seem happy enough with the O line at the moment. We only gave up 9 sacks in the last 7 games (i think that was it) and we have two experienced tackles who are very good in pass protection. Bulaga will be groomed as the eventual replacement for Clifton and he looks ready to step up if we have any injury problems.

 

I think if the Packers are pinning their future hopes on Bulaga, they're going to be disappointed. He's a guard, not a tackle. His arms are way too short to split out wide. Arm length is an issue with the end of the interior line because you have to be able to reach block when you're facing the likes of Julius Peppers and rushers with speed AND power (see Ware, DeMarcus). And what happens when he has to block Suh on a stunt? One of the reasons some alltime greats were such (Bruce Matthews comes to mind) is because they had the bodies to play multiple positions and the mental aspect to handle the assignments. Bulaga seems to have the mental side (and experience will help him lots) but short arms on a tackle leads to lots of holding penalties.

 

I think folks are seriously overestimating several teams (not the least of which is my own beloved Broncos). I'm looking at 8-8 for my team, simply because of history and the systems being employed. This isn't the days of the one-cut anymore so injuries at the running back position threaten the entire gameplan. You can't just plug anyone with two legs into McDaniels' backfield and have a 1,000 yard rusher on your hands. They traded Peyton Hillis (which was a mistake IMO) and with Knowshon banged up and Buckhalter not even worth thinking about really, they're going to have to find a diamond in the pile of (poop). Couple that with a shaky defense and the loss of Elvis along with the questionable replacement talent and about the only exciting thing for the team will be "When's Tebow coming in?".

[GatorBait19]

I think if the Packers are pinning their future hopes on Bulaga, they're going to be disappointed. He's a guard, not a tackle. His arms are way too short to split out wide. Arm length is an issue with the end of the interior line because you have to be able to reach block when you're facing the likes of Julius Peppers and rushers with speed AND power (see Ware, DeMarcus). And what happens when he has to block Suh on a stunt? One of the reasons some alltime greats were such (Bruce Matthews comes to mind) is because they had the bodies to play multiple positions and the mental aspect to handle the assignments. Bulaga seems to have the mental side (and experience will help him lots) but short arms on a tackle leads to lots of holding penalties.

 

I think folks are seriously overestimating several teams (not the least of which is my own beloved Broncos). I'm looking at 8-8 for my team, simply because of history and the systems being employed. This isn't the days of the one-cut anymore so injuries at the running back position threaten the entire gameplan. You can't just plug anyone with two legs into McDaniels' backfield and have a 1,000 yard rusher on your hands. They traded Peyton Hillis (which was a mistake IMO) and with Knowshon banged up and Buckhalter not even worth thinking about really, they're going to have to find a diamond in the pile of (poop). Couple that with a shaky defense and the loss of Elvis along with the questionable replacement talent and about the only exciting thing for the team will be "When's Tebow coming in?".

 

Well you might have a point there, but at the same time his arms being short doesn't mean he is a future bust like you do.

 

the avg length for a tackles arms in the NFL two year was 34 1/2 inches. The NFC pro-bowlers were avg at 33 3/4 while the AFC were 34 on the dot.

 

Bulaga has bigger arms then 6 current NFL starting LT

 

Carolina Panthers Jordan Gross 33

Eagles Jason Peters 33 1/8

Tampa Bay Buccaneers Donald Penn 33

Atlanta Falcons Sam Baker 32 3/4

Detroit Lions Jeff Backus 32 1/2

Tennessee Titans Michael Roos 32 1/4

 

That is a pretty good list of OT as well. Roos is the anchor for the Titans line, Backus isn't that good, Baker was a steal for the Falcons, Penn was just rewarded a contract and many believed he should have been a pro-bowler last year, Peters is a talented tackle, and Gross is one of the best.

 

Also Michael Oher, Jason Smith, Matt Light, Joe Thomas fall into that under 34 inch arms.

 

I just don't think you can say a guy isn't going to live up to expectations just because of the size of his arms. More goes into it then just his arms like is he quick on his feet, his he smooth and fluid. Those factor in more than if he has 34 3/4 or bigger arms.

[GatorBait19]

I could be wrong about this, but week 5 could be history. Rams vs Lions will feature not only the last 2 number 1 picks, but also the last two Number 2 picks as well.

[GruntMark]

And almost no one will see it.

 

So how bout this Thursday?

 

Im thinking Saints win the rematch. They already look polished and the Vikings have alot of ?s at WR, along with Brett being another year older.

[GatorBait19]

And almost no one will see it.

 

So how bout this Thursday?

 

Im thinking Saints win the rematch. They already look polished and the Vikings have alot of ?s at WR, along with Brett being another year older.

 

Brett has always had ?'s at WR. Last year, with the Jets, and most his career with the Packers outside of the Freeman and can't remember the other guy era. He is the one who helped Javon, Greg Jennings, Sidney Rice, and Donald Driver become household names.

 

He still has a great running game and they will figure things out with the WR's

[Stennick]

Well you might have a point there, but at the same time his arms being short doesn't mean he is a future bust like you do.

 

the avg length for a tackles arms in the NFL two year was 34 1/2 inches. The NFC pro-bowlers were avg at 33 3/4 while the AFC were 34 on the dot.

 

Bulaga has bigger arms then 6 current NFL starting LT

 

Carolina Panthers Jordan Gross 33

Eagles Jason Peters 33 1/8

Tampa Bay Buccaneers Donald Penn 33

Atlanta Falcons Sam Baker 32 3/4

Detroit Lions Jeff Backus 32 1/2

Tennessee Titans Michael Roos 32 1/4

 

That is a pretty good list of OT as well. Roos is the anchor for the Titans line, Backus isn't that good, Baker was a steal for the Falcons, Penn was just rewarded a contract and many believed he should have been a pro-bowler last year, Peters is a talented tackle, and Gross is one of the best.

 

Also Michael Oher, Jason Smith, Matt Light, Joe Thomas fall into that under 34 inch arms.

 

I just don't think you can say a guy isn't going to live up to expectations just because of the size of his arms. More goes into it then just his arms like is he quick on his feet, his he smooth and fluid. Those factor in more than if he has 34 3/4 or bigger arms.

 

You likely won't get a response from Remi since this is irrefutable evidence that he's more than 100 percent wrong so I though I'd respond by saying that you are absolutely right. Sometimes its nice to just say things and use numbers and assume nobody else is going to research it but the truth is there are no magical numbers outside of the white lines that you can use to project the success of an athlete. How many combine stars have become busts and vice versa?

 

Well said and well researched GB nice to see some of that good old fashioned research come to light in way of opinion.

[GatorBait19]

You likely won't get a response from Remi since this is irrefutable evidence that he's more than 100 percent wrong so I though I'd respond by saying that you are absolutely right. Sometimes its nice to just say things and use numbers and assume nobody else is going to research it but the truth is there are no magical numbers outside of the white lines that you can use to project the success of an athlete. How many combine stars have become busts and vice versa?

 

Well said and well researched GB nice to see some of that good old fashioned research come to light in way of opinion.

 

lol it wasn't even that, I remember talking to people in the past about it and there are cases that support and don't support long arms for tackles.

 

Roos is one of the best tackles in the game, he may be on a run first squad but to only give up one sack during a year is impressive.

 

There is just more to a position then one key attribute. Manning isn't a stud because he's got the arm of a rocket, Chris Johnson isn't a great running back because he can run the 40 faster than most, Larry Fitz isn't one of the best because he has hands bigger than mine or yours.

 

Those player have a bunch of different things rolled into one.

[totti]

Although it would be better for your tackles to have longer arms, I don't see it as a burning issue. I think Bulaga is a very durable player and is eager to learn and work hard and to me that's more important. He also has a very solid and experienced tackle in Chad Clifton to learn from which will give him a great boost. In my opinion I don't think he'll be one of the top tackles in the league, but he's certainly going to be good enough to be a starter for many, many years.

 

Looking at those stats though, especially Gross and Roos who are easily some of the best, it looks like with some hard work Bulaga could actually become a top tackle in the NFL. I guess we'll have to wait a few years and see.

[Remianen]

Well you might have a point there, but at the same time his arms being short doesn't mean he is a future bust like you do.

 

Please show me in my post where I said he would be a bust. Please? I said they would be disappointed if they were pinning their hopes on him. Have you watched his film from college? Or are you just throwing numbers out without actually looking into anything? Bulaga has real trouble with speed rushers who move outside of him, because of the length of his arms. His feet aren't especially quick (which is a major reason he's no Joe Thomas) though he's not slow either. I never said he would be a bust. Having especially quick feet on a lineman can make up for many physical deficiencies (as the Broncos O-line of the late 90s is proof of), as can scheme, but having the physical tools to begin with is always preferable.

 

You likely won't get a response from Remi since this is irrefutable evidence that he's more than 100 percent wrong so I though I'd respond by saying that you are absolutely right. Sometimes its nice to just say things and use numbers and assume nobody else is going to research it but the truth is there are no magical numbers outside of the white lines that you can use to project the success of an athlete. How many combine stars have become busts and vice versa?

 

Stennick, is this really the best you can do? Try harder. You're not even in the same conversation. We're not talking strictly numbers. We're talking numbers combined with intangibles (read my post. I noted his intelligence) and on field performance (tape). Let me break it down for you so maybe you'll understand what I was saying. When teams draft tackles in the first round, they're usually looking for stalwarts. The 'plug him in for 10 years' types like Thomas and (Walter) Jones (and the poster children, Pace and Ogden). It wouldn't be a major loss if Bulaga kicked inside to guard (Steve Hutchinson has proven how key guards can be as has Alan Faneca and Logan Mankins). However, guards still aren't perceived to be as important as tackles (duh). Thus, if a team is picking an O-lineman high, it's most likely to play the bookends of the line. Exceptions are typically made for versatility (Maurkice Pouncey, for example) but that's the general rule.

 

Go look at Iowa's games from last season. Particularly, look at the Orange Bowl if you can't deal with going through the whole season. Look at how much trouble Bulaga tends to have with speed rushers who spin outside of his left shoulder. If he can get his hands on a rusher, he's fine (usually) but that's the case with pretty much every tackle not named Alex Barron. I'm not talking strictly numbers here. I've seen the tape. Not every flub by an O-lineman leads to a sack or hurry. A lineman can get beat and still have the play work (he just didn't handle his assignment). He has a pretty good kick step but he can't rely on that (I'll let you figure out why).

 

Criticism of a player's shortcomings (whether real or perceived) is not a declaration that said player sucks or is a bust or will fail. Further, technique can make up for many shortcomings, especially with linemen. Saying Steve Smith is 'kinda short for a #1' doesn't mean he sucks (again, duh). I was talking about Bulaga as he stands right now. There are any number of ways he can choose to go that could help or hinder his game. I'm not a fortune teller. I speak from what I've seen of the player (on tape), knowing the nuances of the game fairly well. He's not a Clady (meaning, a prodigy at tackle with both technique as well as being a 'specimen') but that doesn't mean he's going to wind up like the aforementioned Alex Barron either. Then again, I should be used to this by now. I took tons of heat for agreeing with the Broncos taking Clady over Chris Williams (and Branden Albert and the Sam Baker mentioned previously) by the casual fans who had never even watched the players in a game. Funny how that turned out.

[Stennick]

Please show me in my post where I said he would be a bust. Please? I said they would be disappointed if they were pinning their hopes on him. Have you watched his film from college? Or are you just throwing numbers out without actually looking into anything? Bulaga has real trouble with speed rushers who move outside of him, because of the length of his arms. His feet aren't especially quick (which is a major reason he's no Joe Thomas) though he's not slow either. I never said he would be a bust. Having especially quick feet on a lineman can make up for many physical deficiencies (as the Broncos O-line of the late 90s is proof of), as can scheme, but having the physical tools to begin with is always preferable.

 

You're so vague its not even funny. You always say things like "he's in real trouble" or "they got another thing coming", "better think twice" so therefore if and when you're proven wrong you can say "I never said that he WOULD'NT be great I just said they were in trouble. I know you fancy yourself some sort of inside knowledge, offensive, defensive guru of course I suppose that runs in the family with your dad being a former pro football player (I wonder if he was a novelist as well). The truth of the matter is maybe the kid won't make it. But if he doesn't make it, then its got to do with a LOT more than just his arm length. You're telling me that this organization doesn't know about arm length problems but you do? To hear you say it you know something these men that have watched every game of of his a dozen times. What are the cliches usually used for this? Even a blind dog finds a bone every once in a while, even a broken clock is right twice a day? Catch my drift?

 

Stennick, is this really the best you can do? Try harder. You're not even in the same conversation. We're not talking strictly numbers. We're talking numbers combined with intangibles (read my post. I noted his intelligence) and on field performance (tape). Let me break it down for you so maybe you'll understand what I was saying. When teams draft tackles in the first round, they're usually looking for stalwarts. The 'plug him in for 10 years' types like Thomas and (Walter) Jones (and the poster children, Pace and Ogden). It wouldn't be a major loss if Bulaga kicked inside to guard (Steve Hutchinson has proven how key guards can be as has Alan Faneca and Logan Mankins). However, guards still aren't perceived to be as important as tackles (duh). Thus, if a team is picking an O-lineman high, it's most likely to play the bookends of the line. Exceptions are typically made for versatility (Maurkice Pouncey, for example) but that's the general rule.

 

It wasn't my best but I tend to save my best for those situations that actually deserve it. I may not have the expansive knowledge on this overly complex game that you do. After all Is just nots bes smart enough kind sir. However in my humble, severely uneducated, but my comprehension is that you said he had the mental aspect down pat. He had enough experience the ONLY thing he was lacking was his arm length. Gatorbait named off SEVERAL guys that had an arm length either lower than him, the same size as him or an inch more than him. Some of those guys have gone on to be very good NFL tackles. So if the guy has the mental, he has the experience (as much as any othe rookie) and the only thing he's lacking is arm length then he does in fact have a shot at being a good tackle and there is no need to move him into guard. Its like you completely ignored the fact that GB listed you a half dozen guys or more that were around the same size arm length. You said in your original post that was his biggest concern, well history shows its not that big of a concern if a player is talented. So gain I'll say you were basing your decision off of numbers oh and tape, you know I have no idea how you find time to be on here. Between college football and pro football you spend more time "breaking down tape" than the hoodie himself.

 

Go look at Iowa's games from last season. Particularly, look at the Orange Bowl if you can't deal with going through the whole season. Look at how much trouble Bulaga tends to have with speed rushers who spin outside of his left shoulder. If he can get his hands on a rusher, he's fine (usually) but that's the case with pretty much every tackle not named Alex Barron. I'm not talking strictly numbers here. I've seen the tape. Not every flub by an O-lineman leads to a sack or hurry. A lineman can get beat and still have the play work (he just didn't handle his assignment). He has a pretty good kick step but he can't rely on that (I'll let you figure out why).

 

Criticism of a player's shortcomings (whether real or perceived) is not a declaration that said player sucks or is a bust or will fail. Further, technique can make up for many shortcomings, especially with linemen. Saying Steve Smith is 'kinda short for a #1' doesn't mean he sucks (again, duh). I was talking about Bulaga as he stands right now. There are any number of ways he can choose to go that could help or hinder his game. I'm not a fortune teller. I speak from what I've seen of the player (on tape), knowing the nuances of the game fairly well. He's not a Clady (meaning, a prodigy at tackle with both technique as well as being a 'specimen') but that doesn't mean he's going to wind up like the aforementioned Alex Barron either. Then again, I should be used to this by now. I took tons of heat for agreeing with the Broncos taking Clady over Chris Williams (and Branden Albert and the Sam Baker mentioned previously) by the casual fans who had never even watched the players in a game. Funny how that turned out.

 

I'm not a fortune teller and I'm not even a fan of the guy's team and care little about his success. However when you came in here and mentioned his arm length as your biggest reason why this guy was not going to succeed and then GB proved you wrong (again) it became obvious that you were talking to hear yourself talk without doing ANY research. Never once in your post did you say "the guy doesn't have the arm length and I don't see him doing as well with it as such and such". Instead you said "if they are planning their future on this guy then I feel sorry for them. Or whatever the actual quote was. You said "If they are planning their future on this guy" and then in this post you go on to say your not a fortune teller. Well if your not a fortune teller why were you talking about how bad of an idea it was for the Packers to be looking at him for their future. So which is it? Are you telling the future such as the case in your last post with "If their planning their future on this guy" implying that you know the road that future takes and its not a good one. Or are you NOT a fortune teller and so therefore have NO idea how the Packers are going to be with this guy in the future. I know I'm just a mere mortal but "I'm not a fortune teller" and "this teams future can't depend on this guy" sounds like double talk to me. Of course I guess thats Remi being Remi.

[GatorBait19]

I think if the Packers are pinning their future hopes on Bulaga, they're going to be disappointed. He's a guard, not a tackle. His arms are way too short to split out wide. Arm length is an issue with the end of the interior line because you have to be able to reach block when you're facing the likes of Julius Peppers and rushers with speed AND power (see Ware, DeMarcus). And what happens when he has to block Suh on a stunt? One of the reasons some alltime greats were such (Bruce Matthews comes to mind) is because they had the bodies to play multiple positions and the mental aspect to handle the assignments. Bulaga seems to have the mental side (and experience will help him lots) but short arms on a tackle leads to lots of holding penalties.

 

Hm, so that's you saying that Bulaga won't live up to the expectations of the Packers. Now in the NFL when someone doesn't live up to the expectations they are considered bust.

 

Also did you watch the Orange Bowl past the first drive?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAUs6ny8Hps&feature=related

 

that shows a bunch of Morgan vs Bulaga and Bulaga didn't look as bad as you swear he did. I did watch a bunch of Iowa games (for the simple fact I like their coach)

 

Also if you watched Iowa games you would notice that Bulaga didn't have trouble with speed rushers because of their speed, sense besides myself most believe he is extremely quick on his feet, he had trouble with speed rushers when they would transfer their speed into power. Bulaga posted some of the better O-Line 3 cone drill and 20 yard shuffle, but put up horrible numbers when it came to bench press finishing 18 out of 40

[Stennick]

He handled Morgan pretty well in that video on top of having those quick feet Remi said a tackle needs if he is going to make up for those midget arms he has. The guy looks like a tackle to me. So I guess the only logically assumption is that he looked HORRIBLE in every play that isn't listed.....right Remi? Or let me guess you didn't say he played bad in those games you just said we would see why he's not a tackle right? Kind of like I'm not saying your completely wrong....I'm just saying you're not right at all.

[Johnny Fenoli]

I just wrote this while watching all the Saints - Vikings hype for tonights first game of the season. It's intended to be shared with all my friends and family who are mostly Cowboys fans. But, I figured I'd share with my GDS familia.

 

 

How bout dem Cowboys?! by Johnny Fenoli

 

My seed was planted in a time of mediocracy.

When Danny White was dropping back and completing more passes to Eagles and Vikings than he was to his own team.

When Herschel Walker was the primary back, and not the bargining chip that would one day lead to dynasties.

When a legend once known as Touch Down, was now on his turn down.... before he rode off into the rockies...

 

Yes at the age of 10 these Cowboys weren't my Daddy's cowboys of the 70's...

My early Cowboys didn't have a doomsday device known as Lilly, like my daddy's daddy.

Yet... I watched...

Yet... we cheered... We waited....

 

Then from the sunshine state a new son rose....

as brash and confident as his former teams U... sed to be.

The man in the hat to took a step back, and was drove away.

I remember everyone being upset that day, the way they did Coach.

 

But I liked them boys swagger...

You see MY coach, he just got through runnin' things down in the MIA.

He was the leader of a south beach crew that ran things in the land of Heismans and Bowl Games.

Jimmy, he had a few...

 

So as Jimmy walked in to Dallas and signed that deal with the devil that forced the man in the hat back...

I waited....

First came the leader... the back bone and the spirit... the playmaker.

Still I waited...

Next was our golden boy... precission, excellence, perfection... #8.

We waited...

Trading away of the only man I could cheer for seemed like a chance to WALKer, away...

But I waited...

Then came the grindstone... Then came the sledge hammer... underdog, underapperciated, to small, too slow... Deuce Deuce.

We was almost there, and we waited...

 

THEN... IT HAPPENED.... The big 3, Irvin... Aikman... Emmitt...

Those would be our core... Those would be the ones to bring the Cowboys back to our Dynasty status.

While everyone I know cheered every time Irvin ran a post... Emmitt ran that sprint draw... and Troy thread a needle.

I watched the trenches.

 

I liked the dirt, the grime, the constant pounding... I liked to see the game in the trenches.

So, while every one I knew was clamoring for the #22 Jersey, I wanted a #79.

But, they dont make jersey's for the big boys inside. They got their shine only when the camera's ran too long on time.

Allow me to reintroduce... Big E, Nate, Step, Gogan, and Tui... My team, within my team.

 

In the 90's my team out shined my daddy's team.

Everyone tried to emmulate my team, but few could.

We ran through Bills and Steelers, on the way to our 3 rings...

No longer did we have to wait... Ahhhh....... finally...

 

Then...... One by one all my Cowboys rode off into their sunset in Canton.

Years have passed now, and hardly a glimpse....

We've watched as team after team wore OUR crown...

So now as I sit here watching as a Burbon Street brood, bounce to sounds of New Orleans brass... I wait...

 

But, not for long my fans... For this is the year of Destiny...

As we travel down this 19 game road toward Jerry's billion dollar Mecca I make my pilgrimage.

I ride with Romo... I travel these Miles... I make aware of D-Ware... and take two steps with Jones and Barber.

I wait no more, for now is the time that we ride again. Now is the time of destiny for my Dynasty.

 

The stars have aligned for one more time.

I can still hear that sound in Jimmy's voice.

Out will come that once again famous of line...

when we all yell........... HOW BOUT DEM COWBOYS?!

[Remianen]

Hm, so that's you saying that Bulaga won't live up to the expectations of the Packers. Now in the NFL when someone doesn't live up to the expectations they are considered bust.

 

If you draft someone to be a tackle and they turn out to be better at guard, that's 'not living up to expectations'. Doesn't mean they're a bust, especially if they make the Pro Bowl....at guard. It just means they didn't live up to expectations as a tackle. You can 'not live up to expectations' and still be a damn good (and effective) player.

 

Also did you watch the Orange Bowl past the first drive?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAUs6ny8Hps&feature=related

 

that shows a bunch of Morgan vs Bulaga and Bulaga didn't look as bad as you swear he did. I did watch a bunch of Iowa games (for the simple fact I like their coach)

 

Also if you watched Iowa games you would notice that Bulaga didn't have trouble with speed rushers because of their speed, sense besides myself most believe he is extremely quick on his feet, he had trouble with speed rushers when they would transfer their speed into power. Bulaga posted some of the better O-Line 3 cone drill and 20 yard shuffle, but put up horrible numbers when it came to bench press finishing 18 out of 40

 

I watched the entire Orange Bowl. I charted the plays for the Orange Bowl (since I've been studying Paul Johnson's triple option). You mention he has trouble when speed rushers transfer speed into power. In simplistic, casual fan parlance, that's the same thing, because it happens in the NFL damn near every play. Whether you start with a bull rush and then hump or shoot up the field and spin, it happens remarkably fast (for men of that size). In the NFL, people will spin off his outside shoulder and be right in line with Rodgers on a 5-step drop (or worse, the exceedingly rare 7-step). You seem to be under the impression that I believe Bulaga sucks or isn't a good player. That's not the case. As I said, he'll learn and depending on how quickly he learns, he might be more effective or impactful at guard. I was noting how I believe the uncertainty of that learning curve could lead to him not living up to the expectation of being a cornerstone left tackle (which, from all I've read, is what people expect him to be, from the moment he was drafted). I'm a Broncos fan (and have been since Craig Morton was taking the snaps). My team won two Super Bowls and produced numerous 1,000 yard rushers with a line that was considered less than ideal.

 

Cornerstone left tackles are rare, which is why everyone clamors to get one. Jake Long dominated in college, as did Joe Thomas. That doesn't mean he played perfectly. It doesn't mean he never got beat. The same can be said for Ryan Clady. Nowhere did I "swear" Bulaga did badly. I noted his deficiencies. Again, offering criticism on a player does not reflect an opinion on his ability level. I don't watch games like casual fans, so when I note 'hand position', 'push', and 'technique', I'm speaking from a coaching perspective. I would guarantee that Kirk Ferentz and his staff didn't give Bulaga a pass after every game and say 'You did awesome, you're perfect!'. You always find out what a player did that might not have been perfect and you work on that. That's what practice is for.

 

Look at the video you linked. Second play in, is Bulaga not off balance and allowing Morgan to get his hands up to try to bat the pass? First play, is Morgan not inches away from the QB? Where's Bulaga's punch? Third play, he seals beautifully and prevents Morgan from pursuing on the play. Fifth play, same deal. Sixth play, in the NFL, that's called a sack or a hurry. NFL pass rushers aren't that slow to react when they clearly get inside of a tackle with no guard help. Could you see Peppers or Jared Allen not firing upfield into Aaron Rodgers' facemask? That's just the first handful of plays. Every player has weaknesses. The purpose of practice and player development is reducing/eliminating those weaknesses and shoring up the player's strengths.

 

Again, if you took my criticism to mean I think Brian Bulaga sucks, you are mistaken. I think he'd make a Hutchinson level guard (which is saying a whole lot) but at tackle, he needs development. He'll get that, given who he'll have to face regularly. But the Packers realize this, which is why Bulaga's playing tackle AND guard (according to their depth chart, he backs up on the left side at both positions).

 

He handled Morgan pretty well in that video on top of having those quick feet Remi said a tackle needs if he is going to make up for those midget arms he has. The guy looks like a tackle to me. So I guess the only logically assumption is that he looked HORRIBLE in every play that isn't listed.....right Remi? Or let me guess you didn't say he played bad in those games you just said we would see why he's not a tackle right? Kind of like I'm not saying your completely wrong....I'm just saying you're not right at all.

 

Apparently, this guy seems to think if you criticize a player in any way, shape, or form, you think he 'sucks'. Midget arms, cute. Come back when you can actually contribute to the conversation in something other than a 'me too' manner. Nowhere did I state or imply the player was 'bad'. I offered the opinion that at this stage of his career, he's a better guard than tackle. I gave (admittedly oversimplified) examples of his technique that led me to believe that, as well as the (again, oversimplified) physical reason. I noted his intellect being a strength and the uncertainty of his future development.

 

You sir, need to go back to fantasy play, where the only things that matter are a handful of numbers that don't tell the whole story. Nothing wrong with being a casual fan, until you start to stick your nose in non-casual discussions. Because to you, if I said 'Josh Freeman needs to learn to read defenses better', that automatically means I think he sucks.

[Stennick]

 

I watched the entire Orange Bowl. I charted the plays for the Orange Bowl (since I've been studying Paul Johnson's triple option). You mention he has trouble when speed rushers transfer speed into power. In simplistic, casual fan parlance, that's the same thing, because it happens in the NFL damn near every play. Whether you start with a bull rush and then hump or shoot up the field and spin, it happens remarkably fast (for men of that size). In the NFL, people will spin off his outside shoulder and be right in line with Rodgers on a 5-step drop (or worse, the exceedingly rare 7-step). You seem to be under the impression that I believe Bulaga sucks or isn't a good player. That's not the case. As I said, he'll learn and depending on how quickly he learns, he might be more effective or impactful at guard. I was noting how I believe the uncertainty of that learning curve could lead to him not living up to the expectation of being a cornerstone left tackle (which, from all I've read, is what people expect him to be, from the moment he was drafted). I'm a Broncos fan (and have been since Craig Morton was taking the snaps). My team won two Super Bowls and produced numerous 1,000 yard rushers with a line that was considered less than ideal.

 

I'm surprised you have time to not only watch all these thousands of college and pro games every week but to chart plays as well. I mean you're helping bring the Nets to Brooklyn, you're a novelist, and who knows what else you've decided to do this week.

 

You said and I QUOTE "If the Packers are pining their future hopes on Bulaga being a cornerstone Left Tackle their going to be disappointed he's a GUARD not a tackle".

 

Thats EXACTLY word for word what you said. If I said if The Rams are James Laurinaitis are pining their future on him being a superstar MLB then their going to be disappointed the guy is an OLB not a MLB".

 

and then when someone called me out on it and I turned around and said "well I never said he COULD'NT I was just saying there is a learning curve there".

 

No thats not what you said. You said they would be disappointed, you said he was a guard not a tackle. Then you come back with "well it'll take some time". Well really? Was that EVER in your original argument? Of course not. You figured you'd read some cute little article on some scouting site about his short arms and you would relay that vast knowledge to us "casual" fans here. And when Gatorbait proved you horribly, sadly, incredibly wrong....TWICE you're stil trying to fight. You ever hear of digging the hole deeper? Obviously not or you would at the very least say "you know I worded it wrong" or "thats not what I meant to say" or something of that degree. But instead you're not even backing down from that. You're saying WE got it wrong when if you said that to ANYBODY they wouldn't take that as you saying "well he'll need to improve". When you say someone is at the wrong position and when you say a team will be disappointed with his production at that position thats saying he doesn't belong there. You didn't say "he's going to have to improve a lot" or "he should spend time at both positions" No you said he' s a GUARD and they would be disappointed. And after you got owned in the conversation by Gatorbait.....twice you decided it wasn't YOU who mis spoke your argument it was us inferior "casual" fans that got it wrong. Stay classy pal.

 

 

Apparently, this guy seems to think if you criticize a player in any way, shape, or form, you think he 'sucks'. Midget arms, cute. Come back when you can actually contribute to the conversation in something other than a 'me too' manner. Nowhere did I state or imply the player was 'bad'. I offered the opinion that at this stage of his career, he's a better guard than tackle. I gave (admittedly oversimplified) examples of his technique that led me to believe that, as well as the (again, oversimplified) physical reason. I noted his intellect being a strength and the uncertainty of his future development.

 

You sir, need to go back to fantasy play, where the only things that matter are a handful of numbers that don't tell the whole story. Nothing wrong with being a casual fan, until you start to stick your nose in non-casual discussions. Because to you, if I said 'Josh Freeman needs to learn to read defenses better', that automatically means I think he sucks.

 

I never once cited an actual stat of the guys. You are the one that proclaimed that his arm length alone would make him a dissapointing tackle (your words not mine). And it wasn't until GatorBait listed a half dozen successful tackles with SHORTER arms than him, and then posted that Orange Bowl you "charted plays for" that you came back with "we were mis understanding your argument".

 

I understand your argument. Your argument was he had short arms and would be a dissapointing tackle he should be a guard. That was your argument, when that argument was wrong you went to the next failed argument, and the next one.

 

Honestly man we all B.S a little bit and if you're really in business then we b.s more than a little bit (nature of every business) but when its time to eat one its time to eat one ya know? You were wrong, Gatorbait proved you wrong, you flipped you're entire argument and tried to continue it by saying "well he'll need work". It was a nice try but here's a reference you'll get....

 

"We don't beeeelieve you, you need more people"

 

Seriously you do because not a single person in here has came to your rescue to defend you. Unless of course us casual fans just can't grasp the next level knowledge that you have by charting all those plays. In that case it makes sense. Haters goin hate right? You know what they say, those that can do....those that can't......chart plays.

[Comradebot]

Oh god... didn't anyone else see the injury to Leonard Weaver? Horrifying.