Official NFL Discussion Thread

[LoganRodzen]

You said "he still has some yards in him" she said she thought it wasn't true, then explained how some guys have great seasons then fall off.

 

How hard was that?

 

Pretty hard. There were three paragraphs in what she quoted and only the last sentence was what she was referencing. Most people bold or quote (only) what they're replying to. Sorry for being confused, Peter. I won't let it happen again!

[moon_lit_tears]

I am sorry. Like I said I didn't delete the rest of the post because I was too lazy. . My bad I am sorry.

[LoganRodzen]

I am sorry. Like I said I didn't delete the rest of the post because I was too lazy. . My bad I am sorry.

 

That's OK. I was just confused as to what you were referencing because there was a bunch you could have been talking about.

 

This I find untrue. He has always been lazy arrogant and so on. I do think he has some more in him, but maybe not. I mean guys have great seasons then fall off. Who knows.

 

I agree with you though. He definitely has the reputation of being lazy and unmotivated. He's pretty much a RB version of JaMarcus Russell.

[GatorBait19]

That's OK. I was just confused as to what you were referencing because there was a bunch you could have been talking about.

 

 

 

I agree with you though. He definitely has the reputation of being lazy and unmotivated. He's pretty much a RB version of JaMarcus Russell.

 

my favorite part is White has had success...... Mike Williams not so much lmao

[moon_lit_tears]

That's OK. I was just confused as to what you were referencing because there was a bunch you could have been talking about.

 

 

 

I agree with you though. He definitely has the reputation of being lazy and unmotivated. He's pretty much a RB version of JaMarcus Russell.

 

I sleep very little. So my brain tends to work even less.

 

In other news, I was reading that Owen Daniels looks to be healed pretty well. I was so upset to see him get hurt. He was one of my best players in my Fantasy league. .

 

Not so sure I will pick him up this year though.

[chris caulfield]

I wrote an article on Bleacher Report on the Patriots and their depth chart.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/401273-new-england-patriots-projected-depth-chart-part-one

 

Check it out and leave comments here or preferably on the article itself.

[GatorBait19]

I wrote an article on Bleacher Report on the Patriots and their depth chart.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/401273-new-england-patriots-projected-depth-chart-part-one

 

Check it out and leave comments here or preferably on the article itself.

 

Let me ask you (because my boss and I have argued this)

 

I believe Brandon Spikes will be a very talented MLB for the Pats, he doesn't think so. I thought Spikes fit that system from the start and the big thing that allowed him to slide was the 40 time.

 

Also I believe the surprise of the Wide outs will be Tate. I also love their pick up of Aaron H. I think he will be Brady's big TE target. Florida loved to use him as a TE/WR and another problem with him was that he didn't do the combine and the failed drug test (mary jane) This was the man who won TE of the year, which past winner like Chase Coffman, Fred Davis, Heath Miller, Kellen Winslow, Dallas Clark, Daniel Graham.

[LoganRodzen]

Hernandez is a beast. I liked how Florida used him in the WR/TE roles. I think people get bad reps for failing drug tests (non-performance enhancing) when they shouldn't - I guess it depends on how you look at the particular drug. Even though I dislike the Patriots I think it's cool that they take chances on guys who are labeled "problems".

[chris caulfield]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="GatorBait19" data-cite="GatorBait19" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26529" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Let me ask you (because my boss and I have argued this)<p> </p><p> I believe Brandon Spikes will be a very talented MLB for the Pats, he doesn't think so. I thought Spikes fit that system from the start and the big thing that allowed him to slide was the 40 time.</p><p> </p><p> Also I believe the surprise of the Wide outs will be Tate. I also love their pick up of Aaron H. I think he will be Brady's big TE target. Florida loved to use him as a TE/WR and another problem with him was that he didn't do the combine and the failed drug test (mary jane) This was the man who won TE of the year, which past winner like Chase Coffman, Fred Davis, Heath Miller, Kellen Winslow, Dallas Clark, Daniel Graham.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think Spikes will be a big contributor for the Pats in his rookie season next to Mayo. At OTA's they are already teaching him how to run the defence and call plays on the field. Will be a great player for us I feel.</p><p> </p><p> I loved the Hernandez pick and am really looking forward not only to him playing but also to see how he is deployed.</p><p> </p><p> Also part two is up and it focuses on the O-line.</p><p> <a href="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/402555-new-england-patriots-projected-depth-chart-part-two" rel="external nofollow">http://bleacherreport.com/articles/402555-new-england-patriots-projected-depth-chart-part-two</a></p>

[LoganRodzen]

I'm starting to think the Titans knew way more about Albert Haynesworth when we didn't re-sign him after the '08 season. I knew he was the type of player to take a paycheck and play 50% of the time. And his injuries while with us were always a problem. Even Kevin Mawae (veteran center and former teammate) is ripping him to shreds. He's the DT version of Terrell Owens. Does any team want to risk paying this guy money ever again? I sure as heck wouldn't.

[GatorBait19]

I'm starting to think the Titans knew way more about Albert Haynesworth when we didn't re-sign him after the '08 season. I knew he was the type of player to take a paycheck and play 50% of the time. And his injuries while with us were always a problem. Even Kevin Mawae (veteran center and former teammate) is ripping him to shreds. He's the DT version of Terrell Owens. Does any team want to risk paying this guy money ever again? I sure as heck wouldn't.

 

Lol, I am just happy the he didn't take the Bucs offer. Report tell us all that the Bucs gave Albert a bigger offer overall, with less gauarantee. Some one on ESPN (can't remember their name) was talking about with mess ups like Albert, J Russell, and other big contracts that the owners in the new CBA will try to get a cap or something to fix all of this.

 

I like the thought because I have always hated the fact of people getting money without ever playing, but it's the same in every sport so this will be interesting.

 

Last thing, the union and NFL talked this week..... but not about a new CBA. They came together to talk about more NFL games (which I would love personally), but right now I believe making sure their are players to play the more games is more important.

[Comradebot]

I'm starting to think the Titans knew way more about Albert Haynesworth when we didn't re-sign him after the '08 season. I knew he was the type of player to take a paycheck and play 50% of the time. And his injuries while with us were always a problem. Even Kevin Mawae (veteran center and former teammate) is ripping him to shreds. He's the DT version of Terrell Owens. Does any team want to risk paying this guy money ever again? I sure as heck wouldn't.

 

I'll be honest. The only reason Haynesworth isn't still in Tennessee is because Bud Adams is a cheap, old, bastard. The Titans defense has gone to complete crap without him. As bad of a person as he is, he's also a player capable of making everyone around him look better. Look at Vandenbosch and Finnegan, or heck, almost every Titan defensive player. They went from all-pro to scrub overnight. Haynseworth drew enough attention that the rest of the D-line had an easier job, and he put enough pressure on that the secondary had to cover the recievers for a shorter period of time on average than nearly every other team in the NFL.

 

The only, ONLY reason the Titans made any noise last year is because of Chris Johnson. The man is a freakin' beast and possibly the best RB in the league today. But guess what? Old Man Adams, being the cheap-ass and bastard that he is, refuses to pay the man the money he rightfully deserves. Right now, Chris Johnson is the LOWEST paid starter on the Titans offense. If they don't re-sign him, then... well, guess they'll have to rely on Vince "Knuckles" Young to do something. And without Johnson taking pressure off of him... yeah... it'll be Ugly. That's not even taking into account the possibily Young misses any playing time.

 

Morale of the story? Bud Adams is a despicable excuse of a human being who only cares about two things: winning, and opening his check book as little as possible. Sadly for him, the second tends to outweigh the first, meaning he'd rather save a few bucks than pay the best players on his team what they rightfully deserve. THAT'S the reason Haynseworth is gone, and it's the same reason Chris Johnson could realistically still be holding out when the season starts. I hope not, simply because he's a fun player to watch, but... it's Bud Adams we're talking about. He's the man who regularly competes with Al Davis for the title of "most despicable human being anywhere near the NFL". Well, with him and Albert Haynseworth.

[LoganRodzen]

The defensive problems we had weren't because of JUST Haynesworth. Finnegan missed three games due to injury - had two less tackles than he did in '08 and the same amount of INTs (5) / TD (1). That certainly isn't because of Albert being gone - it's bad injury luck. And Vanden Bosch's production went up (20+ more tackles than '08, but with Albert being gone that's expected) and he was able to play the entire season (missed 6 games in '08). Haynesworth was a great DT for us and everything, but he's never (ever) started a full season his ENTIRE career.

 

The heart of Tennessee's defense is our front four D-lineman - they 'cause pressure and everything starts there. Haynesworth was contributing a big amount of sacks which we lost this past season because we went with younger players. These younger guys (Tony Brown and Jason Jones) that got a lot of playing time had 9 sacks combined (Brown with 5, Jones with 4). These guys will be beasts this coming season.

 

I can't exactly say I'm going to miss Vanden Bosch either... and that's because of Jacob Ford - the guy started ZERO games (played in 15) and had 5.5 sacks this past season. In '08 (the year Albert had 8.5 sacks), he had SEVEN sacks while playing in 14 games (started 3). Haynesworth may have been the glue and the centerpiece holding everything together and sure we saw a drop in production when he left, but this season I think you'll see the Titans defense back on top.

 

With that being said, I'm glad we didn't re-sign him because we'd be going through the same BS Washington is going through right now. Maybe Adams is a "cheap old bastard" but he made the right call with Haynesworth in my opinion.

[Remianen]

The guy had FIFTEEN rushing TDs in '08... sure, they almost all came from inside the red zone, but who cares? Last year he looked like he was in amazing shape (on the sidelines). He lost a ton of pounds and was in better shape than he had been at USC... and we use him for SIXTY-FOUR carries. Yes, 64-carries for a guy who came into the league and had a 300+ carry, 1,000 yard rushing season in his 2nd year. We made the playoffs TWICE with LenDale White carrying the football - '07 with Chris Brown and '08 with CJ. It's awesome that CJ rushed for 2,006 yards this past season... but we DIDN'T make the playoffs.

 

Yes, let's ignore the fact that your defense was utter poo for most of the season or that outside of Chris Johnson, you had no offense to speak of for the first, what, six games? Naw, that had nothing to do with it, it was all because LenDale wasn't being fed a steady diet of carries.

 

LenDale White is done, give it up. He plays the wrong position and the wrong style to be lazy with weight problems. Every year, several Pierre Thomas types enter the league. Guys who are hungry, home run hitting backs, who will do anything and everything to make the team and excel. LenDale is not a home run hitter, he's not hungry (unless it's for food), and he's not totally committed to being the best player on the field. That means he sucks and it's a rare team not named the Cincinnati Bengals that'll be interested in him.

 

I'm starting to think the Titans knew way more about Albert Haynesworth when we didn't re-sign him after the '08 season. I knew he was the type of player to take a paycheck and play 50% of the time. And his injuries while with us were always a problem. Even Kevin Mawae (veteran center and former teammate) is ripping him to shreds. He's the DT version of Terrell Owens. Does any team want to risk paying this guy money ever again? I sure as heck wouldn't.

 

Uh, no. The Titans didn't re-sign Albert because the market made him way too expensive for them. Don't try to make it seem like someone in the Titans organization is a seer. They couldn't afford him so they let him walk. They couldn't afford him when they franchised him.

 

The heart of Tennessee's defense is our front four D-lineman - they 'cause pressure and everything starts there. Haynesworth was contributing a big amount of sacks which we lost this past season because we went with younger players. These younger guys (Tony Brown and Jason Jones) that got a lot of playing time had 9 sacks combined (Brown with 5, Jones with 4). These guys will be beasts this coming season.

 

Care to put a wager on this? I'm willing to bet $100 that the above does not happen. You sound like some of my relatives (Panthers fans) who try to convince themselves that the team will be better off without Julius Peppers. You're trying to say that what everyone agrees is a special talent somehow isn't and is easily replaceable. Let's be real here: the Titans, just like the Panthers, have no one on their roster who is capable of making offenses change their strategy to account for one player. That's special, whether jilted fans will admit it or not.

 

I'll say this though: personally, I'm getting really tired of people castigating Haynesworth for not coming in. He did what every human being with a brain would've done. If your new boss told you to tell him if you wanted to keep working for him before he gave you a big bonus that was contractually obligated, you would've taken it too. If he had told them he didn't want to play for the Redskins, what would they have done? Tried to trade him? He'd have no value because his contract required that $21 million bonus. So any team who traded for him would've had to give up high picks AND pay him $21 million. Only a fool would've turned it down since it would only be a negative FOR YOU. He turns it down, the Skins try to get a ton of value (in picks and players) for him and even if they do, he'd have to renegotiate his deal, most likely for LESS money. Yeah, I could see an intelligent person going for that.

 

Before anyone even bothers, let me say this: Albert Haynesworth is not a nose tackle. Go look at the rosters of the 3-4 teams and look at who's playing the nose. Kris Jenkins, Haloti Ngata, Vince Wilfork, Casey Hampton, Ryan Pickett, B.J. Raji, notice the similarities? Nose tackles in the NFL are generally 6'0-6'3, 330+ lbs. There's a reason for that. Albert is 6'6 (a liability at the nose), 340ish lbs. He's a prototypical 3-technique tackle. For people who don't know the difference, look here. Albert Haynesworth signed with the Redskins to be a 3-technique tackle. That's what he played in Tennessee and made his name on. That's what he's built and skilled to do. Imagine telling Chris Johnson to become a blocking fullback. That's the difference, in real terms. It's a waste of talent and nose tackles aren't worth nearly as much as 3-technique tackles are (because nose tackles aren't expected to get sacks. It's not in their job description. And as you know, sacks = money).

 

Again, Albert Haynesworth is not a nose tackle. Agreeing to play the nose is going to disappoint everyone because he's not suited to the position. He'd take one hell of a beating (covering one gap is infinitely easier than covering two or three), reduce his value, and set the team back significantly. If the Skins are smart (and let's face it, they're not), they'd trade him to Detroit, which runs a system exactly like the one he made his fortune in (gee, I wonder why...). Minnesota would also be a good choice (but that would just be embarrassing to the NFC with the Williams' and Haynesworth rotating on the same D-line). But the Skins will hold onto him, thinking their piddly fines in training camp are going to be some kind of motivation to get him in. Unless they fine him a million a day (which they can't), it's not going to mean much of anything.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

They will play Haynesworth at DE. He will still shoot the B gap. It would make sense to use him any other way. Play him like Ratliff does in Dallas, just from another position.

[LoganRodzen]

Yes, let's ignore the fact that your defense was utter poo for most of the season or that outside of Chris Johnson, you had no offense to speak of for the first, what, six games? Naw, that had nothing to do with it, it was all because LenDale wasn't being fed a steady diet of carries.

 

Care to put a wager on this? I'm willing to bet $100 that the above does not happen. You sound like some of my relatives (Panthers fans) who try to convince themselves that the team will be better off without Julius Peppers. You're trying to say that what everyone agrees is a special talent somehow isn't and is easily replaceable. Let's be real here: the Titans, just like the Panthers, have no one on their roster who is capable of making offenses change their strategy to account for one player. That's special, whether jilted fans will admit it or not.

 

I'll say this though: personally, I'm getting really tired of people castigating Haynesworth for not coming in. He did what every human being with a brain would've done. If your new boss told you to tell him if you wanted to keep working for him before he gave you a big bonus that was contractually obligated, you would've taken it too. If he had told them he didn't want to play for the Redskins, what would they have done? Tried to trade him? He'd have no value because his contract required that $21 million bonus. So any team who traded for him would've had to give up high picks AND pay him $21 million. Only a fool would've turned it down since it would only be a negative FOR YOU. He turns it down, the Skins try to get a ton of value (in picks and players) for him and even if they do, he'd have to renegotiate his deal, most likely for LESS money. Yeah, I could see an intelligent person going for that.

 

CJ had two TDs through those first six games and then 12 TDs through the last ten games of the season. Did CJ suddenly turn on god-mode or did he start getting some help? I watched every single Titans game all year and I'm pretty sure he got some help. Our offensive scheme through the first six games was utter poo - we passed it way more than we should have. Our 13-3 season where Collins did perfect "game management" turned into pass 30+ times a game? Yeah... great game plan, Heimerdinger. What they've done with Vince (throwing 18+ times a game) is good and that's what we need.

 

I truly think Jason Jones will be a beast at DT. I think what he's produced thus far - 5 sacks his rookie season and 4 this past season (out of 20 career games played in). If he can stay healthy he'll do awesome in his third season. He's had good coaching and now it's time to see what he can do full time.

 

I'm not sure what I would have done in his situation because I dislike hypotheticals, but I truly don't think I could tell a team, "yeah, I'm totally gonna play for you guys, don't worry about it" and then take a big fat check and sneak out the back door. The information I've read on the subject has made Haynesworth out to be a liar, cheat, and thief. If it's true that he told people he was going to report to camp after taking the bonus and he hasn't yet - he's all three of those things. And if that's all the truth, who in there right mind wants to sign a guy like that?

[Remianen]

They will play Haynesworth at DE. He will still shoot the B gap. It would make sense to use him any other way. Play him like Ratliff does in Dallas, just from another position.

 

They said they wanted him to play nose on everything except obvious passing downs. THEN he'd be an end. And few successful teams with competent pass rushers send their ends through the B gap. That would allow the offense to collapse on you, taking your d-line completely out of almost all edge plays. Haynesworth as an end would be a 5 technique, not a 4. Julius Peppers = 5. Richard Seymour = 5. Jared Allen = 5. In the Skins scheme, Albert would be a 4 which would lead to him getting his ass kicked on every play by the guard, tackle, and the tight end chipping. His height means his knees would be completely exposed on chips so, what would normally be a strength (being able to bat down passes) turns into a weakness because he'd never want to reach his full height. Haynesworth's primary responsbility in Jim Haslett's system is going to be keeping London Fletcher clean (like Haloti Ngata does (and Tony Siragusa did) for Ray Lewis). That means taking on the guard and center with contain responsbilities for both A gaps. At end, his responsibilities would be to basically stuff the run and occupy blockers so the linebackers can make plays. 3-4 ends mainly "stack and shed", they don't do much straight upfield, get the quarterback stuff.

 

Some players are made to play certain positions (or certain schemes) and pretty much nothing else (modern day quarterbacks especially of the "system" type, for example). Haynesworth is very close to being one of those players.

[Remianen]

I truly think Jason Jones will be a beast at DT. I think what he's produced thus far - 5 sacks his rookie season and 4 this past season (out of 20 career games played in). If he can stay healthy he'll do awesome in his third season. He's had good coaching and now it's time to see what he can do full time.

 

Logan, I'm interested to see when Jason Jones played. Specifically, whether it was just 3rd downs or obvious passing situations. That doesn't strike me as something extraordinary. There is often a vast difference between taking the beating that comes with being a 3-down player, for an entire season, and being a third down pass rush specialist. I haven't paid much attention to the Titans besides scheme work but there was nothing about Jason Jones that struck me as special.

 

I'm not sure what I would have done in his situation because I dislike hypotheticals, but I truly don't think I could tell a team, "yeah, I'm totally gonna play for you guys, don't worry about it" and then take a big fat check and sneak out the back door. The information I've read on the subject has made Haynesworth out to be a liar, cheat, and thief. If it's true that he told people he was going to report to camp after taking the bonus and he hasn't yet - he's all three of those things. And if that's all the truth, who in there right mind wants to sign a guy like that?

 

Who would want to sign someone like that? A team that wants to win, that's who. Haynesworth makes base salaries of 4.5 mil per season in 2010 and 2011. Given his level of ability and production, any team running a 4-3 scheme would want him (especially if they have a strong locker room or just flat out don't care about their locker room).

 

Also, I'm wondering how you can be a thief, when the money you "stole" was due to you by contract? I don't get it. Contract says on April 1st, he's due a "bonus" of $21 million (which wasn't actually a bonus since it was guaranteed to occur by the terms of the deal) so you're a thief because you take the money despite not having missed ANY organized team activites at that point? Why aren't you criticizing all the other players who got bonuses on April 1st who don't sleep at the team's facility in March? He wasn't obligated to show up until THIS WEEK (mandatory minicamp). What part of 'voluntary' aren't people understanding?

 

I can almost guarantee that when he gets traded, assuming it's to a team with a decent staff and scheme, he's going to turn out similarly to Randy Moss (that is, making his detractors look awfully silly).

[GruntMark]

Quick hits: Haynesworth clearly deserved his recent money. But he's still a trash dude and I would be unthrilled to see him show up on a roster of any team Im a fan of. Much less see them trade the Skins anything of value for him.

 

That said, I hope they send him to Detroit. Cause who cares what happens to the Lions, right?

 

Also, cant help but think that without CJ the Titans are picking in the first 5 in next years draft. The top ten at best. I dont understand why their fans think Bud needs to play hardball with him. CJ is the offense. No one is seriously concerned with VY and the collection of WRs.

 

...Unless that concern stems from fears of assault.

[LoganRodzen]

Logan, I'm interested to see when Jason Jones played. Specifically, whether it was just 3rd downs or obvious passing situations. That doesn't strike me as something extraordinary. There is often a vast difference between taking the beating that comes with being a 3-down player, for an entire season, and being a third down pass rush specialist. I haven't paid much attention to the Titans besides scheme work but there was nothing about Jason Jones that struck me as special.

 

Also, I'm wondering how you can be a thief, when the money you "stole" was due to you by contract? I don't get it. Contract says on April 1st, he's due a "bonus" of $21 million (which wasn't actually a bonus since it was guaranteed to occur by the terms of the deal) so you're a thief because you take the money despite not having missed ANY organized team activites at that point? Why aren't you criticizing all the other players who got bonuses on April 1st who don't sleep at the team's facility in March? He wasn't obligated to show up until THIS WEEK (mandatory minicamp). What part of 'voluntary' aren't people understanding?

 

Two of the sacks he had last year came in the blizzard New England beating. Both of them on Brady if I remember correctly. Very little (if anything) was positive with that game. Though it was CJ's first breakout rushing game with 120+ yards.

 

I know what "voluntary" means. He hasn't shown up to any of the mandatory camps has he? I was under the impression he hadn't and therefore (in my opinion) hasn't done anything for the money he's received. But I guess that's Redskins management problems and not him. I just don't understand the NFL's contracts and the inner-workings of the deals. None of it seems to make logical sense to me.

 

EDIT:

 

Also, cant help but think that without CJ the Titans are picking in the first 5 in next years draft. The top ten at best. I dont understand why their fans think Bud needs to play hardball with him. CJ is the offense. No one is seriously concerned with VY and the collection of WRs.

 

...Unless that concern stems from fears of assault.

 

Yeah, that whole assault thing was out of the blue. He was doing so well too. I just chalk it up as another inVINCEable speed bump. Can't really say anything about it because who knows what the guy said to provoke him? Not defending what he did because he has to be held to a higher standard and has zero room for error, but at the same time I can understand when your temper takes over.

[Comradebot]

Two of the sacks he had last year came in the blizzard New England beating. Both of them on Brady if I remember correctly. Very little (if anything) was positive with that game. Though it was CJ's first breakout rushing game with 120+ yards.

 

I know what "voluntary" means. He hasn't shown up to any of the mandatory camps has he? I was under the impression he hadn't and therefore (in my opinion) hasn't done anything for the money he's received. But I guess that's Redskins management problems and not him. I just don't understand the NFL's contracts and the inner-workings of the deals. None of it seems to make logical sense to me.

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

Yeah, that whole assault thing was out of the blue. He was doing so well too. I just chalk it up as another inVINCEable speed bump. Can't really say anything about it because who knows what the guy said to provoke him? Not defending what he did because he has to be held to a higher standard and has zero room for error, but at the same time I can understand when your temper takes over.

 

The other guy did an upsidedown Longhorns hand gesture. Which, as you all know, is the absolute gravest insult you can give another man and you MUST respond to it with violence, even if it makes knocking a mess of people out of the way to inflict it

 

 

And while Vanden Bosch had more tackles last year, he also had a career low in sacks for any season he played in full. Infact, the Titans sack totals have dropped off DRAMATICALLY without Haynesworth. From 44 total in 2008 to just a lowly 29 last season. In Washington? The went up from 24 last year to 39 this season. He's a massive prick of a man, but (as Scott Steiner said) "the numbers don't lie". He changes defenses and makes the rest of the unit look better. I'm with GM: Titans NEED to get CJ a new contract, because it's a dark day when I think Nate Washington is possibly the most talented non-lineman on the offensive side of the ball. Then again, Kenny Britt has shown a few flares of potential awesome.

[Remianen]

I know what "voluntary" means. He hasn't shown up to any of the mandatory camps has he? I was under the impression he hadn't and therefore (in my opinion) hasn't done anything for the money he's received. But I guess that's Redskins management problems and not him. I just don't understand the NFL's contracts and the inner-workings of the deals. None of it seems to make logical sense to me.

 

Here's a basic framework on how NFL contracts work in the salary cap era.

 

Bonuses are prorated (spread) over the length of the contract, base salaries plus prorated bonuses, comprise the cap number. However, there are often years added to make the contract look good on paper (or rather, in the papers) and inflate its value. For example, Haynesworth's contract calls for him to make $29 million in 2013, 10.8 million (base) in 2014, and 12 million in 2015. As we all know, that's never going to come to pass so Albert signed a 4-year, $48 million deal. This is why franchise type players (Manning, Brady, etc) can "restructure" their contracts to free up cap room. They basically sign a modified deal that converts part of their base salary (say, $15 million) into signing bonus which turns that $15 million into say $5 mil on the cap (base salary) and 10 million spread over the remaining years of the contract (bonus). It's essentially like living off credit cards. That money's going to become due eventually but you want to push it back to a later date.

 

However, do you really think the Skins had $12 million in salary cap space last offseason? No, and even if they did, DT isn't the position you'd want to spend that cap space on. So they structured a cap friendly contract that essentially financed most of the value of the deal by converting money over time (base salary) into upfront cash (bonuses). Many, if not most, contracts for top players in the league today have bonuses of various stripes (roster bonus is typically what it's called. A bonus just for being on the roster).

 

The remaining salaries on Albert's deal (excluding the ones mentioned above that aren't ever going to be received) are:

 

2010 - 3.6 million

2011 - 5.4 million

2012 - 7.2 million

 

Now, you're telling me that you wouldn't want a Pro Bowl capable defensive tackle who can change the entire complexion of your defense....for less money than you're probably paying your backup quarterback to hold a clipboard? Here's the full details of the contract. Look at it and tell me if that sounds like it'll ever be played to expiration. Oh and I was wrong. The Skins asked Albert if he would come in so they could decide whether or not to convert his option bonus (which the team cannot recover) to signing bonus (which they could recover). If they didn't convert it, they're out $21 million since option bonuses aren't recoverable. So if he told them he was gung-ho about the new scheme and they cut that check without converting the bonus, he got them GOOOOOOD.

 

That's why I always tell people not to pay attention to the numbers they hear about 'record-setting' NFL contracts. Look beneath the surface and you find that the back end of the contract is so freakin' ridiculous, it's obviously only there to inflate the value of the contract on paper. That's why people make such a big deal about 'with X guaranteed'. Chris Johnson wants 30-40 million guaranteed. Guaranteed money is salary + signing bonus (or other guaranteed bonus, like the roster/option bonus). $40 million guaranteed over five seasons is $8 million per. You mean to tell me Chris Johnson isn't worth $8 mil a year? Who else are they going to give that money to and get similar value? I'd give him a contract structured similarly to Haynesworth with the non-guaranteed back end inflated to improve the overall numbers. It'd probably actually be a five year deal maxing out at $54 million with 42-45 million guaranteed. Adding four years at $11 million, $13 million, $17 million, and $19 million would add $60 million to the on paper value and take it well over the $100 million mark, which would make my franchise look good to the player, the agent, and the community (but not actually cost us any money). It would say that we're committed to keeping our young stars and willing to pay them fair market value.

 

And while Vanden Bosch had more tackles last year, he also had a career low in sacks for any season he played in full. Infact, the Titans sack totals have dropped off DRAMATICALLY without Haynesworth. From 44 total in 2008 to just a lowly 29 last season. In Washington? The went up from 24 last year to 39 this season. He's a massive prick of a man, but (as Scott Steiner said) "the numbers don't lie". He changes defenses and makes the rest of the unit look better. I'm with GM: Titans NEED to get CJ a new contract, because it's a dark day when I think Nate Washington is possibly the most talented non-lineman on the offensive side of the ball. Then again, Kenny Britt has shown a few flares of potential awesome.

 

Oh no, Haynesworth isn't an exceptional player. Some dude who has inflated stats from one game can easily come in and be a 'beast' to replace him.

 

Randy Moss is an a-hole, by his own admission. That doesn't change the fact that when he's on the field, you'd better respect his authoritah or you're going home with an L. Haynesworth is similar. His impact makes everyone else look that much better because they have to concentrate (even fixate at times) on neutralizing him or slowing him down, which leaves openings for other people to exploit. When your guard and tackle have to double the DT, guess who that leaves the end on? A tight end or running back. That's called a mismatch. If they don't have to pay much attention to the DT (like they did this year in Tennessee), it's a whole lot easier to pass protect.

 

TL;DR Haynesworth's contract isn't really $100 million, the $21 million is almost half the value of the actual deal upfront, if Albert lied to the Skins, I don't condemn him because owners have been doing it for decades, etc.

[LoganRodzen]

That actually makes a ton of sense now that it's been spoon-fed to me. I've never been able to understand how teams can throw around these big dollar amounts when in reality the lengths of the deals are never fulfilled. Guaranteed contracts are strange (you saw it kill WCW, different business but same idea) because it's essentially the teams way of convincing the player to pick them over some other team. It makes sense to me that teams would rather give players milestone-bonuses because then you'd pay them for what they've earned. Though players like Haynesworth wouldn't sign a deal like that in the first place.

 

So the $21 million isn't a "roster bonus"... it's just a "guaranteed bonus"? That part is confusing, but I guess I didn't realize how much (random) cash the 'Skins threw at the guy. Obviously I knew it was the biggest DT contract ever, but I didn't realize it was broken down into (basically) two contracts (that link you posted). Half of the contract is salary and the rest was to make Haynesworth feel all warm & tingly inside. Sounds like Dan Snyder would be 100% OK with no salary cap in the NFL. I really don't want to see that happen because I think it would do more harm than good.

[GatorBait19]

.......

 

Does anyone remember the fact that there were tons of reason Titans went down hill.

 

1) Kerry Collins isn't a QB to be depended upon, he can hold you over for a year but then people catch on again and it's over.

 

2) I agree with Remi that White isn't talented (anymore) but I do think giving him the ball a little more would have deflated CJ's ego.

 

3) The Titans tried to fill AH void with Javon Haye...... someone who is much smaller and did well in the Tampa 2 where small DT do well.

 

4) besides injuries the Titans lost something bigger then Ablert..... their D-Coor. He played a big part in that D and simliar to the Giants, Bucs, and Eagles it is not easy to replace a top of the line D-Coor.

 

 

Albert was a key piece to the Defense no doubt, but he wasn't the main reason that team went downwards

[LoganRodzen]

.......

 

Does anyone remember the fact that there were tons of reason Titans went down hill.

 

1) Kerry Collins isn't a QB to be depended upon, he can hold you over for a year but then people catch on again and it's over.

 

4) besides injuries the Titans lost something bigger then Ablert..... their D-Coor. He played a big part in that D and simliar to the Giants, Bucs, and Eagles it is not easy to replace a top of the line D-Coor.

 

Albert was a key piece to the Defense no doubt, but he wasn't the main reason that team went downwards

 

I was completely dumbfounded by our offensive scheme the first 6 weeks of the season. Heimerdinger changed his scheme from 60 run / 40 pass and reversed it pretty much. Collins threw 4 TDs and 8 INTs through those first games. I had wanted Kerry replaced after week 4 because he was playing terrible. Those first three games that we lost (Pitt by 3, Texans by 3, and Jets by 7) were all possible wins and were close to the finish. Gotta love how Collins went 2 for 12 with 1 INT in the New England blizzard. He had -7 passing yards that game... yes, NEGATIVE SEVEN yards.

 

I think with the offensive problems, losing Jim Schwartz as D-cord, and Haynesworth (who could be considered the "glue" of that defense when he was there, meaning he made things happen) all played a factor. I'm hoping Chuck Cecil will add a lot now that he has a year under his belt. He's a good defensive backs coach and that's one area our defense laid down and died last season. When we gave up 380 yards and 6 TDs to Brady in a freakin' blizzard I knew something was seriously wrong. Obviously we weren't ready to play in weather like that, but that isn't a usable excuse. We were curb stomped hard.