The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[GatorBait19]

You should never, NEVER have a commentary team without at least one professional broadcaster. People rag on Mauro and Goldy, but they hold the broadcasts together. They aren't there to provide insight, they're commentators; they keep the pace, sell the product, sell the fighters and do play-by-play.

 

The Rogans, Shamrocks, Mirs, Florians etc are the colour guys...they provide the insight and 'know-how'. I've seen Bas Rutten (IMO, the best colour man in the business) do play-by-play while another fighter did the colour and it was HORRIBLE. Disjointed, lacking flow...just horrible.

 

Rogan is perfect because he's a superfan. He know's more UFC history than most fighters I've met. Goldy is perfect too, for his role. I don't particularly care for him, but his job is to SELL SELL SELL!!! the UFC brand and fighters to casual fans, and he does a damn good job of it.

 

My all-time favourite commentary team was 'The Fight Professor' Stephan Quadros and Bas Rutten when they did 2H2H, Pride etc.

 

Sorry Daffanka, but as someone who grew up listening to 'Sensei' Will Vanders commentating on K-1 for Eurosport, 'The Voice' is a breath of fresh air for me; definitely a guilty pleasure. He's also an awesome guy in person, very knowledgeable and funny as hell.

 

GOODNIGHT IRENE!!!

 

They need a host which Rogan gives (remember he did Fear Factor). I think there is a difference between host and broadcaster. Broadcaster is someone who tells you things like who won. Host give you insight and inform you on different aspects (like Rogan) he entertains the crowd while giving facts and explaining things. Rogan plus a fighter would make a great team.

 

I Love Stephan Quadros though.

 

 

But also if we are going to get a fighter as an annoucer I want someone who isn't going to pull punches. I hate when Rogan and Goldberg say "Fighter A is really tearing into Fighter B" when fighter A isn't really landing anything big and B is blocking most of it.

 

 

For example (now I am doing this from the best of memory so I could be mistaken)

 

Rampage vs Evans, Evans rocked Rampage, but they don't talk about how Rampage didn't fall, wasn't knocked out, and didn't lose compsure. He got rocked and lost his footing, but when Rampage rocked Evans all it is was "Ohh, Evans took a shot".......... okay so you are saying Rampage got rocked and Evan's was just a shot

 

I just hate how they get on one guys side and make him look dominate. Then what happens is the average joe listens to this and they take that guys side. Then if there is a difference on the scorecard than Rogan and Goldberg's people question it and go... "Hey, but, how, Joe and Mike said it was fighter B who won, not A"

 

I can see why a lot of people got pissed at Nog, personally I thought it was a good matchup that could have gone either way. Like I said though, the average Joe listens to Mike and Joe and think Brilz dominated all three rounds and should have one 30-27.

[Mr_Tricky]

I think if the UFC wanted a guy who could handle the broadcast duties, yell obnoxiously at inappropriate times, kiss the fighters' asses to desperately try to sell them to casual fans, and say dumb things (unintentionally in Goldberg's case), then Michael Schiavello would be a bit better because he can also provide some analysis.

 

It's sad that Zuffa invested so much into Mike Goldberg for so long because he really hasn't improved in his commentary that much. When he's off, he's REALLY off, and when he's on, he's mediocre at best.

 

I know the set ups, the advertisement plugging, and making everything flow smoothly is a big part of the job, and Goldberg is very competent at that stuff. I also realize there are, maybe, three decent play-by-play guys out there, but he can really do some damage when he's on commentary.

 

The commentary is an evolutionary process like everything else in a young sport like MMA, so it's going to take time for the play-by-play to catch up to the color commentary, which is pretty up to standard with guys like Pat Miletich. But, if you look at boxing, they have a plethora of guys you can switch around and get an enhanced experience from listening to them commentate. We're a long ways away from that right now.

[RingofHonorGuard]

As far as the announcers go, it's simple... Believe Brash and Daffanka already touched on the fact that Rogan is the knowledge base for the commentary. Now, a lot of people bag on Mike Goldberg but fail to realize his role in the company.

 

Goldberg is there to sell the sponsors, hype up the things Rogan never does. When's the last time you heard Rogan talk about people sponsoring the event? Goldberg's purpose is to have a recognizable voice, to connect to the fans that aren't exactly "in the know", and truthfully he's probably there to make Rogan look like the glue. Dana has a man-crush on Joe after all.

 

If Goldberg suddenly pulled out a fabled book of "All There Is To Know MMA Related" and pounded down all the chapters and memorized them... It would make Rogan look like crap, the commentary would be jumbled, and really they'd be talking non-stop about things completely irrelevent to the fight more than they already do.

 

So yeah, in the end Goldberg is just there for the casual fans who don't understand what's going on all of the time... They'll still be able to listen to a fellow clueless like Goldberg spout on about HAAAARLEY DAVIDSON!

 

Something else to consider is the more athletes you put in the booth, the more chance you have for bias. It doesn't matter how good someone is at commentating, if they're openly rooting for one guy during a fight and somewhat burying the other guy, it's not really doing much for the product. Frank Mir was really bad about doing this, especially with Miguel Torres. I've caught Bas doing it as well. The fact is the sport is so very young that we don't really have a lot of hall of fame fighters who can really say they know everything about the sport. It's easier to have a human MMA encyclopedia like Joe Rogan.

 

The only person I'd rather see with Rogan than Goldie is possibly Stephen Quadros, as I feel he's #3 all time in MMA commentary so far. Rogan, Bas, and Quadros in that corner. Bas and Rogan would be awful together, so thus the nod to Quad.

[ACCBiggz]

They need a host which Rogan gives (remember he did Fear Factor).

 

Rogan has done PBP before and it wasn't good. He's also been on record numerous times stating how great Goldberg is as it and that he never, ever, wants to be in that chair again. He talks about how it's a totally different world than being just the color commentator. Which it is.

[GatorBait19]

Rogan has done PBP before and it wasn't good. He's also been on record numerous times stating how great Goldberg is as it and that he never, ever, wants to be in that chair again. He talks about how it's a totally different world than being just the color commentator. Which it is.

 

okay, then I will continue to listen to Rogan . Most of the time me and a friend just mute it and talk ourselves.

[RingofHonorGuard]

But, if you look at boxing, they have a plethora of guys you can switch around and get an enhanced experience from listening to them commentate. We're a long ways away from that right now.

 

Okay, but that doesn't really prove anything. There's a lot less going on in boxing than there is with MMA. Boxing is always held at a vertical base, with the exception of knockdowns. Therefore the commentators really only need to understand less complex stand-up fighters.

 

This is me taking nothing away from boxing, but it's pretty understood that boxing isn't nearly as complex as MMA. And really it's silly to even compare them in any arena of thought.

 

As I said above, Rogan knows enough about the sport and fights for both of them. Goldberg takes care of the casual fans, fun facts, and sponsors. That's the way it should be. I don't want to hear Rogan soullessly say something about Papa John's pizza. I want to hear Mike Goldberg put them pizzas over like they saved his life.

[GatorBait19]

Okay, but that doesn't really prove anything. There's a lot less going on in boxing than there is with MMA. Boxing is always held at a vertical base, with the exception of knockdowns. Therefore the commentators really only need to understand less complex stand-up fighters.

 

This is me taking nothing away from boxing, but it's pretty understood that boxing isn't nearly as complex as MMA. And really it's silly to even compare them in any arena of thought.

 

As I said above, Rogan knows enough about the sport and fights for both of them. Goldberg takes care of the casual fans, fun facts, and sponsors. That's the way it should be. I don't want to hear Rogan soullessly say something about Papa John's pizza. I want to hear Mike Goldberg put them pizzas over like they saved his life.

 

lmao, well they pay for his paycheck

[brashleyholland]

They need a host which Rogan gives (remember he did Fear Factor). I think there is a difference between host and broadcaster. Broadcaster is someone who tells you things like who won. Host give you insight and inform you on different aspects (like Rogan) he entertains the crowd while giving facts and explaining things. Rogan plus a fighter would make a great team.

 

Agree totally about the differences...but that's even more reason why you need someone to hold the whole thing together. Goldy is generic and accessible...they don't want (or need) him to be spewing jargon. Like others have said, he's the voice of the layperson who wants to be hand-held through what they're watching, with a second, knowledgeable person to fill in the blanks.

 

 

But also if we are going to get a fighter as an annoucer I want someone who isn't going to pull punches. I hate when Rogan and Goldberg say "Fighter A is really tearing into Fighter B" when fighter A isn't really landing anything big and B is blocking most of it.

 

This is all about salesmanship...it sucks, but it's a necessary evil. The UFC wanted Rashad to win that fight, make no mistake about it. Sure, if Rampage had won and the A-Team movie went on to be a great success, the UFC would benefit from the additional expose. It's a short term thing though...who knows what Rampage will do next? He was being offered additional roles before the A-Team had wrapped....he could be finished with fighting this time next year. Rashad on the other hand, he'll be around for a while...he's the long term investment; win or lose, they were going to make him look good.

 

 

If Goldberg suddenly pulled out a fabled book of "All There Is To Know MMA Related" and pounded down all the chapters and memorized them... It would make Rogan look like crap, the commentary would be jumbled, and really they'd be talking non-stop about things completely irrelevent to the fight more than they already do.

 

I remember when Mauro started to go through the Bas Rutten Big Book of Combat...he just came across as a try-hard and Bas had to keep correcting him anyway.

 

So yeah, in the end Goldberg is just there for the casual fans who don't understand what's going on all of the time... They'll still be able to listen to a fellow clueless like Goldberg spout on about HAAAARLEY DAVIDSON!

 

 

This is exactly it. I'd say that somewhere between 25-35% of PPV purchasers are 'casual' fans. I'm basing that off the number of people who pay for the bottom-shelf PPV's with very little drawing power. These people don't want to hear about the intricacies of transitions or which submission grappling tournaments a particular fighter came 3rd in last year...they want BUUUD LIGHT and OCTAGON WAAAARIORS!

[RingofHonorGuard]

And let's not forget the ever-famous "AND IT IS AAAAAAALLLLLL OVER!"

 

Just ordered my tickets for Bellator 23 in Louisville, Kentucky. First time Bellator has come near me and actually had a card that I wanted to see. Warren/Pitbull and Baker/Shlemenko better deliver. Still a two hour drive, but it's close enough to make the drive. Tickets were only $15 for general admission, and since my experience in being "up close on the action" has sucked, I'm happy to just have the upper seats and not be sitting cageside with a bunch of lamers.

 

Does anyone know how many fights Hector Lombard has on his Bellator contract? Is there any sort of champion's clause in his paperwork? Can't see any reason why UFC wouldn't be scooping this guy up, especially after he just smashed one of their washouts in a few seconds, late replacement or not.

 

Was just looking at the UFC payouts for 114... All I can say is wow... How did Dan Lauzon and Dan Miller somehow make the same amount of money, absolutely staggering. Dan Lauzon should be making $5k/5k at best. He looked like garbage against Efrain, who basically just used the fight to fine-tune his standup... But yet the guy in the co-main event makes the same as a guy who was basically a breathing punching bag for 15 minutes. Stupid.

[Daffanka]

And let's not forget the ever-famous "AND IT IS AAAAAAALLLLLL OVER!"

 

Just ordered my tickets for Bellator 23 in Louisville, Kentucky. First time Bellator has come near me and actually had a card that I wanted to see. Warren/Pitbull and Baker/Shlemenko better deliver. Still a two hour drive, but it's close enough to make the drive. Tickets were only $15 for general admission, and since my experience in being "up close on the action" has sucked, I'm happy to just have the upper seats and not be sitting cageside with a bunch of lamers.

 

Does anyone know how many fights Hector Lombard has on his Bellator contract? Is there any sort of champion's clause in his paperwork? Can't see any reason why UFC wouldn't be scooping this guy up, especially after he just smashed one of their washouts in a few seconds, late replacement or not.

 

If by "deliver" you mean "Patricio Freire is going to put on a clinic on the feet and from the bottom but still lose a unanimous decision because he got taken down since judges are dumb" then yes, it probably will.

 

I'm pretty sure Bellator has a championship's clause.

 

e: Dang that's cheap. Are Bellator running it from a casino or somewhere that would benefit more from the extra attendance?

[GatorBait19]

If by "deliver" you mean "Patricio Freire is going to put on a clinic on the feet and from the bottom but still lose a unanimous decision because he got taken down since judges are dumb" then yes, it probably will.

 

I'm pretty sure Bellator has a championship's clause.

 

Always hated how one fighter could destroy the other, but because he can't stop a takedown the judges rule against him

 

Also another thing I hated that Joe said was about Brilz and how he could be apart of the future of the Light Heavyweight divison...... Joe he's 35......

[Mr_Tricky]

Okay, but that doesn't really prove anything. There's a lot less going on in boxing than there is with MMA. Boxing is always held at a vertical base, with the exception of knockdowns. Therefore the commentators really only need to understand less complex stand-up fighters.

 

This is me taking nothing away from boxing, but it's pretty understood that boxing isn't nearly as complex as MMA. And really it's silly to even compare them in any arena of thought.

 

As I said above, Rogan knows enough about the sport and fights for both of them. Goldberg takes care of the casual fans, fun facts, and sponsors. That's the way it should be. I don't want to hear Rogan soullessly say something about Papa John's pizza. I want to hear Mike Goldberg put them pizzas over like they saved his life.

 

I disagree with that, Rogan may have a chance to shine occasionally when a high level wrestler or BJJ practitioner can pull something off on someone they are light years ahead of, but most of the time that high level technique is stifled by the other aspects of MMA. So, most of the time we see good strikers throwing one-two's and then getting way the hell out of the way, or good wrestlers trying to double leg guys off the fence.

 

There may be more to consider, but it's all watered down to the basics. In boxing, the commentators have to go way more in-depth to explain the intricacies of high level striking.

 

Not only that, but guys like Max Kellerman can really bring the drama by saying something profound and intelligent at an appropriate time and make great moments in boxing more memorable. Goldberg has only ever managed to make his screw ups memorable.

[RingofHonorGuard]

If by "deliver" you mean "Patricio Freire is going to put on a clinic on the feet and from the bottom but still lose a unanimous decision because he got taken down since judges are dumb" then yes, it probably will.

 

I'm pretty sure Bellator has a championship's clause.

 

e: Dang that's cheap. Are Bellator running it from a casino or somewhere that would benefit more from the extra attendance?

 

Yeah, it's pretty cheap. It's ran out of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Street_Live! which I can say I've never been to. But from the sounds of it, it seems like it's an oversized food court with a lot of entertainment attractions.

 

Kinda hoping Warren gets KO'd, main reason I'm going sadly. He's entertaining as hell to watch... Seeing him retard-strength out of submissions with a blueberry face is always a treat. Pitbull has serious won me over though on this season, I'd like to see him win it and the belt.

[RingofHonorGuard]

I disagree with that, Rogan may have a chance to shine occasionally when a high level wrestler or BJJ practitioner can pull something off on someone they are light years ahead of, but most of the time that high level technique is stifled by the other aspects of MMA. So, most of the time we see good strikers throwing one-two's and then getting way the hell out of the way, or good wrestlers trying to double leg guys off the fence.

 

There may be more to consider, but it's all watered down to the basics. In boxing, the commentators have to go way more in-depth to explain the intricacies of high level striking.

 

Not only that, but guys like Max Kellerman can really bring the drama by saying something profound and intelligent at an appropriate time and make great moments in boxing more memorable. Goldberg has only ever managed to make his screw ups memorable.

 

Most boxing fans are clueless as to what's going on, and are just buying the fights to see two guys punch eachother. It's the same premise as MMA for most, but boxing has been around longer. If you're seriously going to say boxing is more intricate in its delivery than MMA, you're probably going to get laughed out of this thread. Sure, someone like Floyd Mayweather's standup might be more technical than half of the MMA fighters out there, but I guarentee you if you asked Mayweather to throw leg kicks, he'd probably laugh and go get his nails done.

 

Boxers only have to worry about getting hit from the midsection and up, therefore it can't really be more intricate. It's easier to train for boxing, any way you cut it.

[GatorBait19]

I disagree with that, Rogan may have a chance to shine occasionally when a high level wrestler or BJJ practitioner can pull something off on someone they are light years ahead of, but most of the time that high level technique is stifled by the other aspects of MMA. So, most of the time we see good strikers throwing one-two's and then getting way the hell out of the way, or good wrestlers trying to double leg guys off the fence.

 

There may be more to consider, but it's all watered down to the basics. In boxing, the commentators have to go way more in-depth to explain the intricacies of high level striking.

 

Not only that, but guys like Max Kellerman can really bring the drama by saying something profound and intelligent at an appropriate time and make great moments in boxing more memorable. Goldberg has only ever managed to make his screw ups memorable.

 

sorry i had to do this

 

[RingofHonorGuard]

sorry i had to do this

 

 

Goldberg doesn't make errors any more than other commentators, he's just on a grander stage and his errors simply can't go unnoticed. As I've said before(and a few others here have said), Goldberg isn't there to give you background on the fighters, he's there to set the mood for the fight and to be a segway for Rogan. Besides, some of the funniest moments in the history of the UFC have come when Goldie says something stupid and Rogan's just like "Uh, no." The Lutter/Jordan reference is easily his biggest blunder, but only the hardcore fans would have been like "WTF?" if Rogan hadn't said "LOL NO WAI DUDE!"

[GatorBait19]

Goldberg doesn't make errors any more than other commentators, he's just on a grander stage and his errors simply can't go unnoticed. As I've said before(and a few others here have said), Goldberg isn't there to give you background on the fighters, he's there to set the mood for the fight and to be a segway for Rogan. Besides, some of the funniest moments in the history of the UFC have come when Goldie says something stupid and Rogan's just like "Uh, no." The Lutter/Jordan reference is easily his biggest blunder, but only the hardcore fans would have been like "WTF?" if Rogan hadn't said "LOL NO WAI DUDE!"

 

I loved the NBA players segment, I get what Goldie is for. He is the presentation factor for UFC.

[Anderz]

finally got around to watching Bellator XX.. Baker/Schambari is about to begin..

 

but christ.. Hess/Storm was... well.. the ending... ewwwwwww....... nothing more I can say.. the slow-mo's during the post-fight interview... they really make it worse..

 

Sanchez/Sursa was surprisingly good as well..

 

out of the final 3 cards.. i think the last is gonna be the best (obviously) as we'll have Pitbull/Warren and Storm/Baker... dont really care for Curran/Imada and Hornbuckle/Askren hasnt got me as excited..

 

Pitbull / Storm / Curran / Hornbuckle are my picks..

[jesterx7769]

This is kind of random but figured someone might have read/saw something, anyone know why GSP wasn't at the UFC Fan Expo? My girlfriend and I are planning a trip to Vegas next year to see a fight and as he's her favorite (big surprise) but it would be hard to pull off a trip there to see him fight since well, what if he doesn't have a fight in Vegas! So I threw out what about trying to make the fan expo next year since at least you would get to meet him like you want (we were planning on staying in the hotel the fight is at and going to weigh ins to meet people) so I go online to show her this years expo and autograph sessions and he wasn't there! So that hurt my argument...

[RingofHonorGuard]

finally got around to watching Bellator XX.. Baker/Schambari is about to begin..

 

but christ.. Hess/Storm was... well.. the ending... ewwwwwww....... nothing more I can say.. the slow-mo's during the post-fight interview... they really make it worse..

 

Sanchez/Sursa was surprisingly good as well..

 

out of the final 3 cards.. i think the last is gonna be the best (obviously) as we'll have Pitbull/Warren and Storm/Baker... dont really care for Curran/Imada and Hornbuckle/Askren hasnt got me as excited..

 

Pitbull / Storm / Curran / Hornbuckle are my picks..

 

I'm with you on Pitbull. After that I pretty much hop off your train, lol.

 

Baker is going to absolutely wreck Shlemenko, it's just a matter of whether it's a lopsided decision win or if he lays the bricks on him. Baker only seemingly has trouble with better wrestlers, and that's definitely not Storm's strong suit. Baker by being too well-rounded.

 

Still unsure what to think about Pat Curran. I feel like he won against Huerta, but I don't see what he has for Imada. Think Imada will take an early first round submission.

 

I could see Hornbuckle winning, but really think that fight is going to be a boring decision for Askren. Askren is lacking experience here, so it's up in the air. But his wrestling and ground control is pretty sick, which is why I think he'll fight off the sub attempts and grind out the win.

[Daffanka]

Most boxing fans are clueless as to what's going on, and are just buying the fights to see two guys punch eachother. It's the same premise as MMA for most, but boxing has been around longer. If you're seriously going to say boxing is more intricate in its delivery than MMA, you're probably going to get laughed out of this thread. Sure, someone like Floyd Mayweather's standup might be more technical than half of the MMA fighters out there, but I guarentee you if you asked Mayweather to throw leg kicks, he'd probably laugh and go get his nails done.

 

Boxers only have to worry about getting hit from the midsection and up, therefore it can't really be more intricate. It's easier to train for boxing, any way you cut it.

 

While that is true keep in mind that Mayweather's level of boxing has been polished to perfection and it's certainly far more technical than any MMA fighter's stand up. I don't even really like boxing but I know that even the best MMA boxer would absolutely fall apart in a boxing match against anyone half decent.

 

The reason for this is just that boxing's been around longer. MMA is still working out that it's a good idea to keep your hands up and your chin tucked, never mind some of the stuff Mayweather pulls off.

[GatorBait19]

While that is true keep in mind that Mayweather's level of boxing has been polished to perfection and it's certainly far more technical than any MMA fighter's stand up. I don't even really like boxing but I know that even the best MMA boxer would absolutely fall apart in a boxing match against anyone half decent.

 

The reason for this is just that boxing's been around longer. MMA is still working out that it's a good idea to keep your hands up and your chin tucked, never mind some of the stuff Mayweather pulls off.

 

I personally think it's that darn Shoulder Roll defense lol

[Zoloftjunkie]

Just watched Dream14 and heard a intresting comment. It seems that Nick Diaz has stated that he is THE P4P best fighter in the world. Bold statement for someone who isn't even considered the best fighter in his own weightclass. Where do you good people rank Nick as a WW and P4P?

[Dustin]

Just watched Dream14 and heard a intresting comment. It seems that Nick Diaz has stated that he is THE P4P best fighter in the world. Bold statement for someone who isn't even considered the best fighter in his own weightclass. Where do you good people rank Nick as a WW and P4P?

 

Behind every good wrestler in the division IMO.

[GatorBait19]

Behind every good wrestler in the division IMO.

 

he's talented but he has also lost to some good fighters. Karo, Sanchez, Riggs, and Sean Shark.

 

Now he has a nice winning streak here as of late, but (IMHO) dream and Strikeforce WW aren't anything compared to UFC WW