The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[Zoloftjunkie]

I bet Dana White is throwing a huge party tonight now. He def doesn't need to bring fedor in to the UFC now. strikeforce saved him a lot of money showing that fedor isn't a top heavyweight and would of been a way over priced midcard in the UFC. Guess that kills the ppv for strikeforce as well. Can also stop hearing the fanboys call him p4p #1 too. Was a good show that I really enjoyed. Only gripe was the Cyborg fight should of been stopped WAY sooner. Was horrible reffing in that fight.

[The Final Countdown]

I bet Dana White is throwing a huge party tonight now. He def doesn't need to bring fedor in to the UFC now. strikeforce saved him a lot of money showing that fedor isn't a top heavyweight and would of been a way over priced midcard in the UFC. Guess that kills the ppv for strikeforce as well. Can also stop hearing the fanboys call him p4p #1 too. Was a good show that I really enjoyed. Only gripe was the Cyborg fight should of been stopped WAY sooner. Was horrible reffing in that fight.

This obviously knocks him out of that #1 P4P stuff, but I don't see how you can say one loss, no matter how bad he might have looked, proves he's a midcard fighter. He was bound to lose at some point. The key will be where he goes from here.

[Zoloftjunkie]

I say he would be a midcard in the UFC cause I don't believe he is as good as their top talent.

[RingofHonorGuard]

I say he would be a midcard in the UFC cause I don't believe he is as good as their top talent.

 

Okay listen, I know we're all disappointed in Fedor and stunned at the fact that he lost... But I would still give him at LEAST a 50/50 shot in the UFC against Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez, Junior dos Santos, and anyone else really, except for maybe Lesnar. Losing a fight doesn't immediately make the guy a can or even a mid-tier fighter. You're saying he should be grouped in with guys like Cheick Kongo and Gabriel Gonzaga, that's extremely laughable.

[Daffanka]

Well this is good. Maybe it means he'll fight Overeem.

 

He's still a good heavyweight and he's not done. I don't know why people think he is.

 

e: Here's my in depth analysis: Don't jump into Werdum's guard Fedor he isn't as rocked as you think he is.

[FINisher]

http://www.middleeasy.com/images/stories/organizations/strikeforcefedorwerdum/screenhunter_02%20jun.%2026%2021.11.jpg

[RingofHonorGuard]

Can't really blame Dana White for making a happy face at Fedor losing whenever A) the company representing Fedor has smeared the UFC and Dana White multiple times over multiple infractions(some true, some not I'm sure), and B) He doesn't have to secure Fedor now because the major mystique is dead.

 

To be honest after I've got over the initial shock of seeing Fedor lose, especially in the manner he did, I watched it again and it truly is entertaining. I mean, you don't see a triangle/armbar that beautiful very often. Also, Werdum can make a serious case for getting back into the UFC now... I mean jeez, the guy holds wins over the Emelianenko bros, and the current Strikeforce champion. He's in a good position as a fighter.

[Daffanka]

I'm pretty sure Dana's picking up Werdum as fast as he can.

 

Anyone (WHERE YOU AT BRASHLEY) know of Werdum's contract status?

 

e: Also yeah that was a pretty gorgeous submission. The quality of my feed was terrible but Fedor didn't look like he knew what to do when Werdum was setting it up.

[RingofHonorGuard]

I'm pretty sure Dana's picking up Werdum as fast as he can.

 

Anyone (WHERE YOU AT BRASHLEY) know of Werdum's contract status?

 

e: Also yeah that was a pretty gorgeous submission. The quality of my feed was terrible but Fedor didn't look like he knew what to do when Werdum was setting it up.

 

Well, it wasn't so much that Fedor didn't know what to do, but it's the fact that Werdum was literally applying submissions at the same time, so when Fedor was adjusting to escape the armbar Fab was trying, Fab would slip the choke more into permission, and vice versa.

 

I just think Fedor extremely underestimated Werdum on the ground because he's done so well against them in the past. Werdum is creative though, he's definitely in that Demian Maia field of jiu jitsu. You don't win Abu Dahbi twice by sucking on the ground, that's for sure... But I never in a zillion years saw Fedor getting choked out, not to mention getting armbarred in the process....

[Trashbear]

I always thought Fabricio was a solid, solid fighter, whose BJJ was on par with damn near anyone's in the HW division. I'm certainly not shocked that he got such a pretty sub on Fedor.

 

I certainly think that Fedor is very near the top of the division, but I can't help but wonder if this may be the catalyst that starts his fall from grace. At the same time, I wouldn't be surprised to see him continue in much the same fashion that he has for most of his career.

[brashleyholland]

I'm pretty sure Dana's picking up Werdum as fast as he can.

 

Anyone (WHERE YOU AT BRASHLEY) know of Werdum's contract status?

 

e: Also yeah that was a pretty gorgeous submission. The quality of my feed was terrible but Fedor didn't look like he knew what to do when Werdum was setting it up.

 

Sorry, I've been busy crying into my Russian vokda while watching old Pride DVD's

 

Two fights left for Werdum I believe, will try and find out for certain.

 

I think Fedor thought Werdum was more hurt than he actually was, hence leaving the arm in such a bad possition. Lovely submission though, can't take a single thing away from him.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

I always thought Fabricio was a solid, solid fighter, whose BJJ was on par with damn near anyone's in the HW division. I'm certainly not shocked that he got such a pretty sub on Fedor.

 

I certainly think that Fedor is very near the top of the division, but I can't help but wonder if this may be the catalyst that starts his fall from grace. At the same time, I wouldn't be surprised to see him continue in much the same fashion that he has for most of his career.

 

Haven't seen it but from what I read he got sloppy when he went in for the kill and he got caught. He'll prolly win a rematch easily.

[Daffanka]

I always thought Fabricio was a solid, solid fighter, whose BJJ was on par with damn near anyone's in the HW division. I'm certainly not shocked that he got such a pretty sub on Fedor.

 

Werdum is one of the most decorated no-gi grapplers in history. He gets boxed up by everyone so people (including myself) forget that his grappling game is very, very tight.

 

And yeah I don't know if Werdum was playing possum or if he was legitimately hurt but he's very hard to finish, it was early in the fight and Fedor probably thought he had him so he hung around a bit too long in the guard.

 

Either way I'm happy for him. He's a good fighter and this is by far the greatest win of his career. Unless he loses a rematch (which frankly I hope doesn't transpire, cut my main man Overeem into the action!) I imagine he'll get a juicy deal to come fight for the UFC.

[GatorBait19]

I always thought Fabricio was a good fighter, he has fought some good fighters and won before. Just folded against some other big fighters.

 

 

Also, Fabricio is now the only person in the world to beat the Emelianeko brothers. For Dana this is great because now if he did want to bring Fedor in, Fedor doesn't hold all the leverage. He got beat by a former UFC fighters who was cut after a bad fight with Junior. He doesn't have that whole aura about him anymore. He is a great fighter still and it's one lose, but after this lose only Overeem is a big enough fighter to take on Fedor. If Fedor wants to be the best fighter ever, first he'd have to beat Fabricio in a rematch and second he would have to come to UFC and go against their fighters. No matter what anyone says UFC's heavyweight division can't be compared to any current company's heavyweight division.

[Gabbo]

Can't really blame Dana White for making a happy face at Fedor losing whenever A) the company representing Fedor has smeared the UFC and Dana White multiple times over multiple infractions(some true, some not I'm sure), and B) He doesn't have to secure Fedor now because the major mystique is dead.

 

Dana has smeared Fedor plenty of times so that argument is invalid.

 

 

I know it's easy to have a go, and I still think Fedor is one of the best but he's been phoning it in for a good few years. He's looked bleh against the likes of Rogers, Hunt, Arlovski etc, and now Werdum. Take nothing away from Werdum though, his BJJ was awesome last night. But for a good while I feel Fedor has been getting by on his aura of invincibility, his sheer strength and basic skills.

 

He hasn't looked sharp for a while and doesn't seem to really have a decent gameplay other than to just 'see how it goes and then Fedor smash your way out of trouble'. Maybe he was getting too complacent...

 

New focus, a real sense of vulnerability, sharpening his skills and a well thought out gameplan will get him back on top. I know I'm probably over-simplifying it but it's just my immediate reactions.

 

 

Spare a thought of Overeem too, I think he genuinely believed he'd be the first man to defeat Fedor.

[Candyman]

I bet Dana White is throwing a huge party tonight now. He def doesn't need to bring fedor in to the UFC now. strikeforce saved him a lot of money showing that fedor isn't a top heavyweight and would of been a way over priced midcard in the UFC. Guess that kills the ppv for strikeforce as well. Can also stop hearing the fanboys call him p4p #1 too. Was a good show that I really enjoyed. Only gripe was the Cyborg fight should of been stopped WAY sooner. Was horrible reffing in that fight.

 

I say he would be a midcard in the UFC cause I don't believe he is as good as their top talent.

 

...is this sarcasm? Or do you just not follow MMA that closely?

 

It was one fight - one bad decision in one fight over a ten year career. And now he's a midcarder? Give me a break. There's nobody named Brock Lesnar (who has a loss, by the way - is he a midcarder since he lost to Mir?) that wouldn't be destroyed by Fedor.

[RingofHonorGuard]

...is this sarcasm? Or do you just not follow MMA that closely?

 

It was one fight - one bad decision in one fight over a ten year career. And now he's a midcarder? Give me a break. There's nobody named Brock Lesnar (who has a loss, by the way - is he a midcarder since he lost to Mir?) that wouldn't be destroyed by Fedor.

 

You'll learn to ignore Zoloftjunkie after a while. I assume he's a Sherdogger, and hasn't quite figured out that style doesn't roll around here. He'll come around, eventually. He seems to generally be a decent human being, albeit a bit trollish at times.

 

We as a sub-group of the Dog Pound have a lot of differences in opinion when it comes to MMA, but I really think we've got a good thing going here. I really hope we don't start getting an influx of Sherdog/bloodyelbow-esque posters around here.

 

Looking ahead to this next weekend...

 

Let's get some discussion going on it... We've talked about the Akiyama/Leben situation quite well, but I think the Lesnar/Carwin fight opens up a lot of new doors at Heavyweight, as it's not just about the UFC title anymore, but about which fighter is #1 in the world at the division. Big fight just got even bigger, imo.

[Dustin]

I'm definitely leaning towards Lesnar. I just don't buy Carwin as an elite fighter. Outstanding punching power is great, but that's just something he naturally has and not something he developed. The only other thing I've seen from him is that he could take down some Brit (notoriously bad wrestlers) and pound him out. It could actually look something like the Brock-Herring fight IMO.

[GatorBait19]

I still believe Fedor is number 1 at lowest 2 in Heavyweight. He had a poor showing against Fabricio, but he also knock him on his butt. He just went in for the kill and was overmatched on the ground.

 

 

I presonally hope Lesnar beats Carwin. I know a lot of people hate Lesnar, but he is a talker and is good for the sport in getting it even bigger in the mainstream eye. I like Carwin power, but I think even with Lesnar running his mouth about standing with him, he'll try to get it to the ground and do what he did with against Mir.

 

I also hope Leben win. UFC might want AK to win because he would help with the Japan market, but Leben is a strong competitor and much younger then AK. Leben though is out matched in the match skills wise though.

[Trashbear]

I'll cast my vote for Lesnar as well.

 

I don't know that Carwin is as poor a wrestler as people have said, but I do know that Brock's takedowns are tough for really good wrestlers to stop. He was one of the premier heavyweight wrestlers in the world during his senior year of college. and he's still a beast on the ground. So, despite his hiatus from the octagon, I predict a round one ground and pound stoppage for Brock.

 

But if Carwin can get a good punch on Brock when he's moving in for a takedown...I'm excited to see what happens.

[MGreene78]

I'll cast my vote for Lesnar as well.

 

I don't know that Carwin is as poor a wrestler as people have said, but I do know that Brock's takedowns are tough for really good wrestlers to stop. He was one of the premier heavyweight wrestlers in the world during his senior year of college. and he's still a beast on the ground. So, despite his hiatus from the octagon, I predict a round one ground and pound stoppage for Brock.

 

But if Carwin can get a good punch on Brock when he's moving in for a takedown...I'm excited to see what happens.

 

the 15 month layoff does worry me a little. Fighters who have taken that long usually don't fare to well in recent memory.

[Daffanka]

It was one fight - one bad decision in one fight over a ten year career. And now he's a midcarder? Give me a break. There's nobody named Brock Lesnar (who has a loss, by the way - is he a midcarder since he lost to Mir?) that wouldn't be destroyed by Fedor.

 

I'm pretty sure Velasquez would take Fedor as well.

[Zoloftjunkie]

Not sarcasm. I just never bought into the fedor hype train. I think Cain and Junior would both send fedor back home to his bible. Only reason he doesn't have more losses is cause of the level of comp. he has faced. Dos Santos vs. Lesnar/Carwin is a fight I would really love to see as I see him as the next UFC champ when he gets his shot. As for Lesnar vs Carwin, if it hadn't been for Lesnar haveing the life threating illness I would say him all the way, BUT we have no clue how Lesnar will be after that whole ordeal so it is really hard to call. And im pulling for Leben all the way. I like it when fighters who can go don't take off months and months between fights.

[Dustin]

So Fedor gets caught against a world class BJJ guy and all of a sudden would lose to Brock, Carwin, Cain, JDS and more? Newsflash, none of those guys have that.

[Daffanka]

So Fedor gets caught against a world class BJJ guy and all of a sudden would lose to Brock, Carwin, Cain, JDS and more? Newsflash, none of those guys have that.

 

I've always said that he'd probably lose a decision or by cut to Lesnar and Velasquez courtesy of wrestling, top control and size for Lesnar.

 

Not so sure about Carwin since he moves like a robot and ate a good deal of punches from Neil Wain (and also because Lesnar is going to rip him apart) or JdS since his wrestling and ground game are a mystery at this point.

 

I don't really think his loss to Werdum changes anything. Maybe it gives some of his more mental fans a reality check about his grappling skills but there's not really any HWs out there that can replicate what he did.