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brashleyholland

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I agree with everything except this. 2010 and 2011 were just as bad, and it's not going to get any better. This is the new norm. It's the culmination of the UFC urging guys to overtrain, train for the wrong reasons(Adonis complex), and then give them full-coverage insurance. Not that the latter is a bad thing, of course. This sport is about to hit a huge market downturn in the very near future, and it's small promoters who will feel pain from the UFC's folly. This is why monopolies are bad, folks.

Why/how are they urging fighters to overtain?

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Why/how are they urging fighters to overtain?

 

The UFC are huge with the fitness community. So much so the term "get a UFC body" is used in muscle mags all the time.

 

Roy Nelson had to go through TUF 10 because he was fat and wouldn't lose weight because he thinks it gives him a tactical advantage and gave him a unique "look" (which it does.) They actually think like the WWE in a lot of ways, urge guys to make cuts to lower weight divisions. Right now they're urging DC to drop to LHW. Which he almost died trying to make 214 at the Olympics. But if you don't looked "jacked" or "ripped" then you're not a "UFC" fighter. This is also the major reason why they don't want anything to do with WMMA, BTW. Feel it could hurt their image with the Men's Fitness crowd.

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I agree with everything except this. 2010 and 2011 were just as bad, and it's not going to get any better. This is the new norm. It's the culmination of the UFC urging guys to overtrain, train for the wrong reasons(Adonis complex), and then give them full-coverage insurance. Not that the latter is a bad thing, of course. This sport is about to hit a huge market downturn in the very near future, and it's small promoters who will feel pain from the UFC's folly. This is why monopolies are bad, folks.

 

Good thing the UFC isn't a monopoly. Folks.

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I agree with everything except this. 2010 and 2011 were just as bad

 

2012 is set to be worse.

 

Last year 73 fights were changed/cancelled due to injury. This year, 43 have been changed/cancelled so far, and we're only half way through June. You've got to assume that some of the fights already booked will change...then all the unannounced cards in September-December. We're on something like 22% of all fights booked so far this year being changed.

 

Now you could say that there are more cards, so that means more fights and more injuries. But that doesn't solve the UFC's problem - They're still booking the arenas and paying for the shows, they still have tickets to sell, PPV to shift and ratings to get. More shows means more expense, so even if there were the same number of injuries this year as there were last year, it's kinda hurting them more.

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This is also the major reason why they don't want anything to do with WMMA, BTW. Feel it could hurt their image with the Men's Fitness crowd.

 

Absolute nonsense. I have numerous sources in and around the UFC and I've never heard that before in my life.

 

There are two reasons that Zuffa don't want anything to do with WMMA yet, and that is neither of them.

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Roy Nelson had to go through TUF 10 because he was fat and wouldn't lose weight because he thinks it gives him a tactical advantage and gave him a unique "look" (which it does.) They actually think like the WWE in a lot of ways, urge guys to make cuts to lower weight divisions. Right now they're urging DC to drop to LHW. Which he almost died trying to make 214 at the Olympics. But if you don't looked "jacked" or "ripped" then you're not a "UFC" fighter. This is also the major reason why they don't want anything to do with WMMA, BTW. Feel it could hurt their image with the Men's Fitness crowd.

 

Cormier could make 205 easily if he did it correctly. He didn't make the Olympics because he was unprofessional & for years he wasn't cutting weight the proper way & unfortunately it caught up with him at the worse possible time. It was 100% his fault & he pissed alot of people off for doing it & he even cost the US wrestling coach his job at the time.

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Absolute nonsense. I have numerous sources in and around the UFC and I've never heard that before in my life.

 

There are two reasons that Zuffa don't want anything to do with WMMA yet, and that is neither of them.

 

The publicly given reason I've always seen towed around by Dana and co is 'depth', and I've never really seen anything that leads me to believe that they're making that one up.

I don't profess to be an expert on MMA by any stretch, but I'd probably struggle to name ten female fighters across all divisions, and I'd wager that this is true for the overwhelming majority of MMA fans.

 

Obviously Ronda Rousey would be a pretty good draw, but beyond her and possibly Cyborg (assuming she doesn't get destroyed now she's 'clean'), I don't see much in the way of names that are going to get any reaction beyond 'who??' from most fans.

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The publicly given reason I've always seen towed around by Dana and co is 'depth', and I've never really seen anything that leads me to believe that they're making that one up.

I don't profess to be an expert on MMA by any stretch, but I'd probably struggle to name ten female fighters across all divisions, and I'd wager that this is true for the overwhelming majority of MMA fans.

 

Obviously Ronda Rousey would be a pretty good draw, but beyond her and possibly Cyborg (assuming she doesn't get destroyed now she's 'clean'), I don't see much in the way of names that are going to get any reaction beyond 'who??' from most fans.

 

Depth is the one they talk about publicly, and the overriding factor. The one they don't talk about is the organisation and some of their bigger sponsors not wanting bloody, battered women all over the TV, internet, print media, etc. The world and their fragile little mind's aren't ready for that! I mean, they get the vote, now they want to fight each other? Madness, madness I tells ya!

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Depth is the one they talk about publicly, and the overriding factor. The one they don't talk about is the organisation and some of their bigger sponsors not wanting bloody, battered women all over the TV, internet, print media, etc. The world and their fragile little mind's aren't ready for that! I mean, they get the vote, now they want to fight each other? Madness, madness I tells ya!

There's already women's boxing. At least in this, they don't ALWAYS have to win by punchin each other in the face. They get other ways to win-if they know how.

 

In any case, I'm not too sure it's a case of more injuries, but rather, more people are REPORTING injuries. People have the UFC insurance AND are making more money, and if that's the case, sometimes, just maybe, sometimes, they can afford to take a direct loss on a paycheck IF they have to do so. I'm not saying they WANT to-after all, they are taking a direct for a paycheck. But there's always the option to absorb some of the loss now.

 

And if you think about it, most of the injuries that are reported come from top-name guys. A lot of it seems like recurring injuries or injuries that were there before, but only taking care of it now. Some fighters state that a lot of fighters fight injured.

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So does anyone have thoughts about the Ultimate Fighter going back to being taped?

 

I personally think the it is the right call. To me the previous season was bland for lack of a better term.

 

What I liked about previous TUF, is that they used to show to build the fighters. You got to know the fighters, you cared about them to an extent. With the live show format it all seemed rushed.

 

Plus the damn fights always ran over and it made me miss some of Bill Maher's show...:D

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It seems the biggest problem they have now as far as ratings is the fact it is shown on Fridays. I only caught the last 30 minutes of one episode this season, but I'm usually out with friends on Fridays and most of the weekend as well. If they could move it back to Wednesdays or one other day of the week I would probably watch it. As far as the live fights like I said I only got to see like 30 minutes of one episode so I can't really judge, but I rather enjoyed the spike format with the pre taped fights.
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It seems the biggest problem they have now as far as ratings is the fact it is shown on Fridays. I only caught the last 30 minutes of one episode this season, but I'm usually out with friends on Fridays and most of the weekend as well. If they could move it back to Wednesdays or one other day of the week I would probably watch it. As far as the live fights like I said I only got to see like 30 minutes of one episode so I can't really judge, but I rather enjoyed the spike format with the pre taped fights.

 

Yes that was actually a huge problem as well, being on Friday night. Especially because their target audience is probably not around on Friday nights.

 

I did not find the fights to be lacking, I just found the in house and training portions of the show to be lacking. The only person I felt they did a good job building up was Mike Chiesa and that was because his father passed away while they were making the show and he seemed like a really nice guy, so the fans did seem to have a rooting interest in seeing him do well.

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Yes that was actually a huge problem as well, being on Friday night. Especially because their target audience is probably not around on Friday nights.

 

I did not find the fights to be lacking, I just found the in house and training portions of the show to be lacking. The only person I felt they did a good job building up was Mike Chiesa and that was because his father passed away while they were making the show and he seemed like a really nice guy, so the fans did seem to have a rooting interest in seeing him do well.

 

Of the highlights I saw the fights looked pretty darn good, but if the in house and training portion are lacking like you say that is probably a big problem with the live format. In the past seasons the drama in house and training, and the conflict with the coaches seemed like the big promotion points for the show, which is what got people to watch. Cruz and Faber might hate each other, but they didn't seem to sell the show as well as Rampage and Rashad, or Chuck and Tito, not to mention the many others.

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Depth is the one they talk about publicly, and the overriding factor. The one they don't talk about is the organisation and some of their bigger sponsors not wanting bloody, battered women all over the TV, internet, print media, etc. The world and their fragile little mind's aren't ready for that! I mean, they get the vote, now they want to fight each other? Madness, madness I tells ya!

 

We agree here. But it's because it would hurt them with the Men's Fitness crowd, which is otherwise known as the "dudebro" crowd.

 

These are the dudes who thought Roger Huerta half killing a drunk former OK St. linebacker outside of a bar was the coolest thing ever, just because he punched a drunk chick outside of said bar. My reply of "wow, that might have been the dumbest thing Roger Huerta's ever done. 9-1-1 is your friend buddy." got replies like, "YOU'RE A COWARD, BRO!" I HOPE YOU DIE!(not kidding) Dude just about started a riot and he almost got that guy killed. But, he defended a woman, what a hero he is... All little boys should look up to him.

 

That's pretty textbook chauvinism... Try explaining the meaning of that word to a group of meatheads though... You'd have better luck teaching a Goldfish cracker Spanish. Hint: World Star Hip-Hop street fight compendiums aren't where you want to ever be. The world isn't like Roadhouse... (As awesome as that world may be.)

 

That's the problem that WMMA faces. It's an immediate turn off to that group of casual fans. I know a group of these fans, they're family. I split major PPVs with them from time-to-time. I told them about Ronda Rousey and showed them her armbar of Julia Budd. You should have seen the look on their faces. They thought I just crawled out of the hatch of a crashed spacecraft.

 

The UFC has proven time-and-time again personal biases are never a reason to turn down dump-trucks full of money. They're far to libertarian for that. But WMMA has to prove it can back said dump-truck onto their lawn. As long as "dudebro" is the UFC's core demo... I'm not very hopeful.

 

As for Depth... Flyweight is less deep than Women's 135lb, and Ronda Rousey is already a bigger name than Joseph Benavidez is... So, we all know that's bullshit.

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The 135 women's division is deeper now than 125's men's, but it's only to grow. Look at 135 and 145 men's. Are you willing to bet their divisions's aren't going to be MUCH deeper than 135 women's later on? The same goes for men's 125, if you ask me. It's not deep now, but it's going to get deeper.
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The publicly given reason I've always seen towed around by Dana and co is 'depth', and I've never really seen anything that leads me to believe that they're making that one up.

I don't profess to be an expert on MMA by any stretch, but I'd probably struggle to name ten female fighters across all divisions, and I'd wager that this is true for the overwhelming majority of MMA fans.

 

Obviously Ronda Rousey would be a pretty good draw, but beyond her and possibly Cyborg (assuming she doesn't get destroyed now she's 'clean'), I don't see much in the way of names that are going to get any reaction beyond 'who??' from most fans.

 

How many draws does 145lb down have? 0. The correct answer is 0. 1 beats 0 every time. Hell, even 155lbs doesn't have a proven draw outside of B.J. who's fighting at 170...

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How many draws does 145lb down have? 0. The correct answer is 0. 1 beats 0 every time. Hell, even 155lbs doesn't have a proven draw outside of B.J. who's fighting at 170...

I wouldn't say she's definite draw yet. Being the only draw in 135 women's is not very useful unless she has someone else people know about. And if Kaufman beats her, that goes down all the drain again.

 

And the thing is, draws take time to develop. Jose Aldo would obviously pull in more fans in Brazil than he would in USA. The problem is, he's not an USA fighter that USA fans can get behind. The only that qualifies is Jon Jones, and a lot of people dislike him. Dominick Cruz is a talented but not a terrible exciting fighter (both in style and in personality), while 125 is developing. The other divisions are held by non-USA citizens. (Not that I have a problem with it).

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I wouldn't say she's definite draw yet. Being the only draw in 135 women's is not very useful unless she has someone else people know about. And if Kaufman beats her, that goes down all the drain again.

 

And the thing is, draws take time to develop. Jose Aldo would obviously pull in more fans in Brazil than he would in USA. The problem is, he's not an USA fighter that USA fans can get behind. The only that qualifies is Jon Jones, and a lot of people dislike him. Dominick Cruz is a talented but not a terrible exciting fighter (both in style and in personality), while 125 is developing. The other divisions are held by non-USA citizens. (Not that I have a problem with it).

 

Valid argument. But if Kaufman beat her, it would be a top-5 upset of all-time. So would everyone in 135lbs outside of Sara McMann.

 

As to Jose Aldo, he's not a star in Brazil either. Anderson, the Nogs, and Vitor are. But not him. At least not yet. Dominick Cruz is fine, but Bantamweight doesn't have any cache with UFC fans yet, so nobody cares. Flyweight is really, really thin worldwide. That's just the truth. Maybe 8 guys who are UFC quality right now. Everybody else are going to be dropping from Bantamweight and Joseph Benavidez will reign for at least the next 3 years barring Urijah cutting again.

 

Also, Japan made the biggest stars in MMA history... none of them were American besides Hendo... Maybe we need to be asking ourselves if the UFC can make stars anymore before absolving them because the fanbase it caters to are isolationists. Which they're not, by-the-way.

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I wouldn't go that far. Rousey has a lot of holes in her grappling. Because of her style of Judo, it's based on a lot of explosiveness and power. I wonder what would happen if she had to go more than one round. Quite frankly, we have yet to seen her against a better wrestler. Kaufman is stronger than Tate is, and Kaufman has better clinchwork. I don't think Ronda is that much bigger than Kaufman, either (Kaufman cuts from around 148, the last I heard).

 

The thing is, there's only a few areas in the USA that support the UFC like it wants to-California, Nevada, and New Jersey. The rest, it's on-and-off. Then it's in Canada, Ontario, Quebec, and British Columbia. Then it would be Brazil, which I'm not familiar with at all, but I'd assume Jose Aldo would draw there if the UFC promoted him. They just need him to prove it.

 

The "draw" thing, though< I mean, in terms of live ticket sales. I'm not too sure about PPV buys. That's a harder question for to answer-I would assume it would have be a USA fighter like Jon Jones.

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I wouldn't go that far. Rousey has a lot of holes in her grappling. Because of her style of Judo, it's based on a lot of explosiveness and power. I wonder what would happen if she had to go more than one round. Quite frankly, we have yet to seen her against a better wrestler. Kaufman is stronger than Tate is, and Kaufman has better clinchwork. I don't think Ronda is that much bigger than Kaufman, either (Kaufman cuts from around 148, the last I heard).

 

Judo isn't based on power, it's based on positioning and technique, more similar to BJJ than Wrestling. Tate is a top-5 WMMA grappler easy, probably top-3, and Rousey cut through her like a knife through butter. If Alexis Davis can hit a Harai Goshi on Sarah Kaufman, she better practice tapping, real fast.

 

The thing is, there's only a few areas in the USA that support the UFC like it wants to-California, Nevada, and New Jersey. The rest, it's on-and-off. Then it's in Canada, Ontario, Quebec, and British Columbia. Then it would be Brazil, which I'm not familiar with at all, but I'd assume Jose Aldo would draw there if the UFC promoted him. They just need him to prove it.

 

The "draw" thing, though< I mean, in terms of live ticket sales. I'm not too sure about PPV buys. That's a harder question for to answer-I would assume it would have be a USA fighter like Jon Jones.

 

The UFC basically breaks even on ticket sales. It makes virtually all of it's event revenue on PPV buys. Brazil (and anywhere outside of North America) doesn't have a PPV market. They have a large TV market, but it doesn't make them much. So that's why Brazil is a bit of a misnomer.

 

Also, New Jersey isn't a large UFC market. Everywhere west of the Florida pan-handle is a big UFC PPV market for them. It's why they're pushing so hard for legalization in New York. Because advertisers look at them as a West Coast only brand, thus jerk them around. It's why they still can't land most Blue Chip sponsors. Even on FOX.

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Judo isn't based on power, it's based on positioning and technique, more similar to BJJ than Wrestling. Tate is a top-5 WMMA grappler easy, probably top-3, and Rousey cut through her like a knife through butter. If Alexis Davis can hit a Harai Goshi on Sarah Kaufman, she better practice tapping, real fast.

Judo requires a lot more explosive and power than BJJ. Saying Rousey's Judo style doesn't lean towards her explosiveness and power is a disservice to her. She claims she had to adapt to this style because judges would always screw her on decisions. If she DIDN'T have these traits, I doubt she would have gotten far as she did. It's these trait combined with her Judo, that's how far she's gotten them with it.

 

As for Alexis Davis doing to Kaufman. She didn't do that many times. Kaufman was caught unaware more than anything else. Kaufman is going to be a lot more careful with Rousey when it comes to this.

The UFC basically breaks even on ticket sales. It makes virtually all of it's event revenue on PPV buys. Brazil (and anywhere outside of North America) doesn't have a PPV market. They have a large TV market, but it doesn't make them much. So that's why Brazil is a bit of a misnomer.

 

Also, New Jersey isn't a large UFC market. Everywhere west of the Florida pan-handle is a big UFC PPV market for them. It's why they're pushing so hard for legalization in New York. Because advertisers look at them as a West Coast only brand, thus jerk them around. It's why they still can't land most Blue Chip sponsors. Even on FOX.

 

That's too bad, because the institutional resistance in New York would mean it would the old guard of politics (doesn't matter which side) that is still in charge means it's not going to happen. I wish it would, but it's not going to happen in New York anytime soon. If it is, it's going to take something bigger than the UFC to force their hand. Quite frankly, I don't see that coming.

 

But more on point, if they want a PPV draw right now, pretty much it's Jon Jones. The others aren't really much. I can't discount Anderson Silva, but I don't recall him being a big PPV draw (but not small one, but not a big one).

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Judo requires a lot more explosive and power than BJJ. Saying Rousey's Judo style doesn't lean towards her explosiveness and power is a disservice to her. She claims she had to adapt to this style because judges would always screw her on decisions. If she DIDN'T have these traits, I doubt she would have gotten far as she did. It's these trait combined with her Judo, that's how far she's gotten them with it.

 

As for Alexis Davis doing to Kaufman. She didn't do that many times. Kaufman was caught unaware more than anything else. Kaufman is going to be a lot more careful with Rousey when it comes to this.

 

 

I think I rate Ronda's skills at exactly what they are. She's housed bigger, stronger, and more-skilled girls than Sarah Kaufman. Her jab is a big weapon, but she's stiff and isn't athletic enough to work the counter-box formula. I know people are going to pull out the "she used to be a ballerina" card, but in the cage, she's very stoic and has a number of gaping holes, both on the floor, and in the clinch. It's a terrible matchup for her. And I feel bad because I wanted to see the Tate-Kaufman Rematch with 5x5s(mostly because I thought Tate got hosed.)

 

Do I think Kaufman will be overwhelmed by the moment like Meisha was? No. Do I think Zegec will have the best possible gameplan for Sarah? Yes. Do I think Ronda Rousey is going to submit Sarah Kaufman inside of the first frame? Yes I do.

 

She's a level of athlete, coupled with a mastery of a set of skills, never seen before in WMMA.(yes, even you Mega Megu:() If she loses here, I'd be absolutely stunned. This is a sport of hobby women... Ronda Rousey ain't no hobby woman.

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Indeed she is. It does take away some of the suspense. But I actually want to see her do it. There's always the chance of her being on the receiving end of a KO.

 

Excited for next week's Wanderlei fight. Though he's definately past his prime, he's still very dangerous.

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