ampulator Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Not to gripe, but Megumi Fujii technically lost to Zoila Frausto. Frausto is a good fighter, but something was seriously up with Megumi Fujii when she lost that fight. Interestingly, the only loss Frausto has is to Miesha Tate, whose only losses are to Sarah Kaufman and Kaitlyn Young. Megumi Fujii has great submission skills, but I wonder about her parts of wrestling and a lot of her standup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 p4p discussions ideally serve a singular purpose: to create a shortlist of fighters that have reigned supreme over their division and appear to be clearly better than their peers. When you start putting 10-15 names on the list, in my very humble opinion, it defeats the purpose of a p4p list. Just because a guy has the belt doesn't make him a dominant champion. This is why guys like GSP and Silva are going to be at the top of any p4p list. They are clearly dominant in their respective divisions and will be the favorite in any fight in the near future. I'm a huge fan of edgar. He's successfully defended his belt now against two opponents. He's a good champ but there's quite a few contenders int he wings that are going to be giving him some close fights. He hasn't even begun to clear out that incredibly deep division. Aldo's defended his 145 title against 5 guys if you count the WEC run. Aldo belongs in a top p4p discussion. Cruz has also stood tall in his division for awhile now and is in consideration as well Bones, Cain, and Edgar are on their way but aren't in the same level of elite-for-their divisions as the previously discussed names. They are champions. They all are undisputed champions and deserve to have their respective titles. But they still have some defenses ahead of them before they top a p4p list in my opinion. A guy like Bones seems to be near the top of alot of these p4p lists. He looks sharp and strong, but so did Machida and Rua until someone came in and gave them a fight. I think Jones is phenomenal and has made his last several fights seem effortless. But he's still got to beat a couple more guys before I can put him ahead of Also and Cruz in a p4p discussion. Should he beat Rashad and a guy or two after him: he will be in a "best p4p" discussion. Not yet though. And Edgar would AT LEAST have to beat Melendez for me to consider him the clear cut best at 155. But this is all just my opinion. I say if people want to discuss rankings however they want to it's their right. Rankings aren't official in MMA and are a rather abstract idea anyway so if you wanna discuss and argue over them, I say have at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoloftjunkie Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Well said Bigplaystew. I don't really buy into p4p lists myself but to each his own. Was sad to see my man Kenflo lose what could be his last shot at a title. All tho I hope not, I have a feeling he might hang the gloves up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonster Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 UFC 3 LHW revealed http://espn.go.com/espn/thelife/videogames/blog/_/name/thegamer/id/7092351/light-heavyweights?readmore=fullstory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 UFC 3 LHW revealed http://espn.go.com/espn/thelife/videogames/blog/_/name/thegamer/id/7092351/light-heavyweights?readmore=fullstory Only real surprise there is Diabate made it in but Gustafsson isn't. Also, pretty sure that's Wandy getting clocked by Franklin in that pic. Maybe they are only listing guys who are native to the LHW division, which would explain the absence of Anderson Silva, Vitor Belfort and Wand, all of whom were selectable at 205 last time, if I remember rightly. Anyway, I'm bored, so here's my guesses for the other weight classes HW: Velasquez Lesnar Dos Santos Barry CroCop Meathead Struve Nogueira Mir Carwin Hunt Kongo Schaub Nelson Overeem (Diaz is in, so why not?) Coleman Severn Broughton Browne MW: Silva Sonnen Stann Belfort Miller Bisping Santiago Munoz Leben Wandy Belcher Maia Akiyama Okami Boetsch Cung Le Weidman Palhares Miller WW: GSP Penn Condit Fitch Koscheck Nick Diaz Ellenberger Sanchez Kampmann Hardy Story Brenneman Hendricks Hathaway Johnson Hughes Alves Thiago Shields Sadollah Ludwig LW: Edgar Maynard Guida Pettis Henderson Guillard Lauzon Sotiropoulos Pearson Barboza Jim Miller Wiman Sherk Dunham Cerrone Siver Tibau Ferguson Nate Diaz Cole Miller Etim Fisher FW: Aldo Florian Nunes Mendes Garcia Phan Roop Hioki Jung Elkins Omigawa Brown Gamburyan Hominick Griffin Garza Pulver BW: Cruz Faber Bowles Benavidez Pickett Johnson Yamamoto Torres Mizugaki Barao Jorgensen Wineland McDonald Johnson Menjivar Escovedo I'm guessing that FW and BW will be boosted by the TUF finalists too. (They've been known for a while, so plenty of time to get them scanned in). That should leave somewhere between 10-15 slots for additional characters. Wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of Strikeforce peeps, and maybe some UFC and Pride 'legends' pop up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonster Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I'm surprissed bonnar and sosz arn't in. Nick Diaz is a pre-order bonus with mayhem, Davis and stann. What no stout for your roster prediction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 What no stout for your roster prediction? C'mon, I just reeled off 130+ names without checking wiki or anything, I was sure to miss one or two :-p What's crazy is that doesn't amount to even half of the UFC roster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffanka Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 No Hunt no buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonster Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 LW roster is even more disapointing then the LHW. At least it leaves a lot of room for pride legends & DLCs. http://espn.go.com/espn/thelife/videogames/blog/_/name/thegamer/id/7097038/lightweights?readmore=fullstory Next week will probably be HW and WW, then MW and BW, then FW and LHW pride, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 Meh, I guess it's got most people that anyone will actually care about. I'm not gonna lose sleep over not playing as Terry Etim or Cole Miller. Who's that Denis Silver guy btw? And (seriously) who's he fighting in the screenshot? Looks like we could be seeing 20+ spaces for 'Pride' fighters or legends then. I'm just hoping that the 'Pride versions' of fighters (Rampage's Stars and Stripes gear, pre-surgery Wand etc) count as an alternative attire, not a whole other character. OK, (realistic) legends/Pride wishlist... Bas Rutten Dan Severn Royce Gracie Jens Pulver Mark Coleman Kevin Randleman Kazushi Sakuraba Hayato Sakurai Yuki Kondo Heath Herring Ninja Rua Pedro Rizzo Randy Couture Giant Silva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 What are the general thoughts on Michael Bisping as a coach on TUF? He is coming across to me (much like the first season he was a coach) is someone who does not seem to want to be there and he doesn't even seem to care about the guys on his team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 What are the general thoughts on Michael Bisping as a coach on TUF? He is coming across to me (much like the first season he was a coach) is someone who does not seem to want to be there and he doesn't even seem to care about the guys on his team. Who'd have thought Mayhem Miller of all people would come off looking more professional? Bisping actually did a decent job with his guys in the US vs UK one (still my favorite season since the first few). I don't know. He's coming off looking like a jerk but I mean the show can be edited certain ways so who knows what really happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i effin rule Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Who's that Denis Silver guy btw? And (seriously) who's he fighting in the screenshot? Cerrone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Who'd have thought Mayhem Miller of all people would come off looking more professional? Bisping actually did a decent job with his guys in the US vs UK one (still my favorite season since the first few). I don't know. He's coming off looking like a jerk but I mean the show can be edited certain ways so who knows what really happened? Yeah I was thinking that the editors might be trying to make him look like the heel of the show. I mean after all every show needs a good guy and a bad guy. I am not sure, like you said he did do good on his first season as a coach (after all both of his fighters won). However, even during that season he just came as someone who was just not into being there. Could be editing, could be he really does not want to be there. Or it could be a combo of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i effin rule Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Yeah I was thinking that the editors might be trying to make him look like the heel of the show. I mean after all every show needs a good guy and a bad guy. I am not sure, like you said he did do good on his first season as a coach (after all both of his fighters won). However, even during that season he just came as someone who was just not into being there. Could be editing, could be he really does not want to be there. Or it could be a combo of both. Going off my memory, I don't think he was all that excited to do the fight with Miller or take this much time off. He doesn't think that fighting Miller will elevate him at all at 185. He did it to gain more exposure (again just going off my memory of an interview I saw ages ago) so he very well may be disinterested in the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 Who'd have thought Mayhem Miller of all people would come off looking more professional? Bisping actually did a decent job with his guys in the US vs UK one (still my favorite season since the first few). I don't know. He's coming off looking like a jerk but I mean the show can be edited certain ways so who knows what really happened? I know quite a few guys who have been on TUF personally, and they all say to me the same thing: The show bares little to no resemblance to their experience. You've got what, 5-6 weeks of filming parred down into 10 episodes, about 42 mins of footage per episode. Most of that is taken up by the fights and house antics; you're only really getting 10 mins per show focused on the actual training. They do a good half-day shift of training every single day, so there's no way of knowing how much time/effort etc any coaches put in. The UK vs US show was a funny one; the guys on the US team were terrible and were essentially there to lose at the expense of finding a couple of British stars. I don't know how good of a coach Bisping is...personally I don't like his style of shouting 'Stand up! Get up!' regardless of whether that's a good idea or not, but that's just me. Some fighters need the Drill Sargent treatment. I do know that Mike isn't happy about getting side-swiped for the title shot though. The feeling there is that he accepted the TUF slot against Sonnen as a 'winner gets a title shot' kinda deal, and felt that the same was up for grabs (for him) if he beat Miller...obviously that's not going to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonster Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I'm pro Team Mayhem this season, so idc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Ya know, BH. I was wondering why its a foregone conclussion that Sonnen gets the shot against Silva. I mean the guy is as dirty as they come outside of the cage. which is fine. I am not saying the guy shouldn't be able to fight for the UFC. I'm a huge fan of his. I'm just saying why shouldn't a guy like Bisping get it when he's reeled off a few wins now or even Munoz should he get through Leban? If Bisping's frustrated I do understand. I mean Sonnen DID get tapped. I understand that he dominated the fight. But still. He tapped. He should have to get through someone a little higher on the totem pole than Brian Stann if you ask me. But I guess the post-fight interview gave the thing a ton of momentum so they'll probably go with Silva vs Sonnen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Ya know, BH. I was wondering why its a foregone conclussion that Sonnen gets the shot against Silva. I mean the guy is as dirty as they come outside of the cage. which is fine. I am not saying the guy shouldn't be able to fight for the UFC. I'm a huge fan of his. I'm just saying why shouldn't a guy like Bisping get it when he's reeled off a few wins now or even Munoz should he get through Leban? If Bisping's frustrated I do understand. I mean Sonnen DID get tapped. I understand that he dominated the fight. But still. He tapped. He should have to get through someone a little higher on the totem pole than Brian Stann if you ask me. But I guess the post-fight interview gave the thing a ton of momentum so they'll probably go with Silva vs Sonnen. I don't think Bisping could have beaten Sonnen in the first place-Sonnen is a good wrestler. Therre are few, if any, within the middleweight division that can stop is takedowns. And Bisping's not that good off his back. His fight agains Miller is a lot closer than he thinks it is-Miller's standup isn't good as his, especially technical-wise, but other his got a decent (if not great) ground game, and Bisping doesn't have the wrestling to stifle Miller. Sonnen can beat both of them, but at least with Mayhem, he actually might get caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Ohh I agree that sonnen is a horrendous matchup for Bisping. I'm just explaining that I found it odd that Chael Sonnen decides who gets the next middleweight title shot thats all. Sonnen maybe doesn't quite deserve the shot when there's other guys who've reeled off more wins recently. While Sonnen was trying to clear up his legal and chemical troubles theres guys who've spent that time winning fights. And sonnen got submitted by Silva. Lets not forget that. I'm not saying I have a major problem with it. I actually want to see Sonnen/Silva and WILL order it 100% for sure. I'm just thinking externally here. I do think if Bisping feels slighted now that he'll have to get through Miller AND another top guy before he gets the title shot I'd understand that mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 I actually want to see Sonnen/Silva and WILL order it 100% for sure. ...and there's your answer. This is a huge, huge fight for the UFC. Promote it on Fox, sell it on PPV and you're probably looking at 900k-1m buys. Sonnen will milk it for all its worth and with the drama and controversy surrounding the first one, it's a sure-fire winner at the box office. Its important to remember that the UFC is a business, not a sport. They will go with what sells over what's 'right' or 'fair' 100% of the time. When you're selling a fight, you're selling the intangible; the idea that people need to watch to see what will happen. That's one of the reasons Anderson Silva isn't as great a draw as the likes of GSP, Lesnar etc. He's *so* good, that the outcome is a foregone conclusion. Every contender seems to have a way to beat GSP; Shields would sub him, Hardy would KO him etc. It's almost impossible to sell the idea that people should tune in because Fighter X might beat Silva somehow. Then along comes Chael Sonnen. Sonnen came within seconds of completely dominating Silva from bell to bell. So now you have the doubt, the uncertainty, the chance that Sonnen goes the whole 25 mins this time. Maybe. Or maybe not. Buy a ticket and find out! The other main way to sell a fight is by selling the characters or stories involved. Again, Sonnen is a dream here because he polarizes the audience. You either love him and want to see him send Anderson on a donkey ride back to Brazil with the Nogueira brothers, or you think he's a delusional [insert naughty word of your choice] who needs a good kicking. Either way, you want to see what happens to him. Mayweather has been making millions that way for years. Of course with Bisping you have a similar situation; he's the 'bad guy' and people want to see him lose, and lose big. What you don't have with Bisping is the perception amongst the masses that he has a chance to win, or at least push Silva to his limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterx7769 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I don't think many people buy Bisping as a threat to Silva at all. I know this is a big UK board so he has lots of support, but I've lived in Michigan, Chicago, and now Florida over the past three 1/2 years and none of the MMA people I know have ever liked him or thought him a real threat. Now yes, part of it is his UK vs. US TUF however what has he done to solidify himself as the #2 MW? Where is his epic win? Look at his latest winning streak. Miller, Akiyama, Rivera, who are all what? Top 30 being generous? Sorry, but you can't beat top 30 opponents consistently and claim to be number two. He had his chance against Hendo and got KTFO, then for being "the best MW striker" as this board likes to put, loses a prodominantly striking battle to Wandy who everyone else is knocking out and beating (including a man in front of him in line Leben). Come on. Beating Mayhem will just be another "meh" opponent who lost to a UFC 170 title contender. Put him against Munoz (after Leben) while Sonnen gets the title shot then Munoz/Bisping can fight for the title. I don't dislike Bisping (I'm quite neutral on him personally) but until he grows up and starts playing in the big leagues he can't gripe about a title shot, which he's been doing forever. He isn't a sell business wise or sport wise, his only selling point is to the British audience who to sell PPV's to, Oh Wait! The UK system doesn't buy PPV's! You get it as part of a TV package (which is awesome btw) So to recap. - Can't sell him sport wise as he has no name value/top opponent wins - Can't sell him business wise as the majority of his fans can't buy the PPV - Compared to Sonnen, who as BH said will do massive numbers plus a stadium show and has been the closest to beating him in what, 3 years? Hmmmmmm what to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldStingberg Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 When you're selling a fight, you're selling the intangible; the idea that people need to watch to see what will happen. That's one of the reasons Anderson Silva isn't as great a draw as the likes of GSP, Lesnar etc. He's *so* good, that the outcome is a foregone conclusion. Every contender seems to have a way to beat GSP; Shields would sub him, Hardy would KO him etc. It's almost impossible to sell the idea that people should tune in because Fighter X might beat Silva somehow. I don't think that's true at all. Before Shields half-blinded GSP and stole a round from him, GSP hadn't lost a single round in something like four years. GSP's opponents have consistently faced longer odds in Vegas than Silva's opponents. Maybe you're saying that the UFC sells GSP's fight as ones he could lose, which is true, but they literally do that with every champion, including Silva. Hendo and Sonnen could out-wrestle him, Vitor had the hands to go toe-to-toe with him, Maia and Leites could submit him, etc. The reason Silva isn't as much of a draw as he should be is because he doesn't care at all about connecting with the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I thin there's also geographical issue at hand. GSP's style isn't all that exciting, but he's from Canada, which means gets a bigger advantage from being Canada and living close to the USA. Silva, on the other hand, is from Brazil. If it weren't for the fact he has an exciting style, no would care, from the USA or Canada. What he has proven, though, that he CAN be a big draw in.... Brazil. go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldStingberg Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Being Brazilian certainly doesn't help, but a guy like Shogun does relatively well because he actually seems to care about the fans. Anderson, on the other hand, won't speak English in public despite reportedly being quite good at it, he takes entire fights off at times, and he refuses to apologize for wasting people's money when he takes fights off. He acts like fans are a nuisance that he just has to deal with, and not surprisingly, that hasn't won him a ton of fans. And I'm not saying he should kowtow to fans or anything. If he wants to be the way he is, fine. But no one should be surprised if people don't want to get behind him and pay money for each of his fights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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