The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[Zoloftjunkie]

Don't be scared Homie!

[ampulator]

Good card, though surprised that Kaufman lost... she should have been more careful, especially against a submission grappler.

 

Oh yeah, Galvao... terrible game-plan. After two attempts, he should have took a hit and avoided trying to get another takedown. He should have just kept it standing until he had better chance. He just kept rushing in. Against a wrestler. Bad, bad gameplan.

[Daffanka]

a decent counter puncher

 

Look how wrong I was about King Karl James Noons Esquire.

 

It was a pretty good card. I like Diaz but I still think he loses against most other top 10 welterweights and against any other good wrestler. It's nice to see Woodley get his sizzle back as well.

 

Also I thought JZ won. The 30-27 Thompson scorecard was a travesty.

[PilotMan]

The first thing that Strikeforce needs to do is get rid of their announcers. The Diaz/Noons fight was good for about one round, maybe two. There were so many mistakes and mis-speaks, and over blown statements that it was terribly unprofessional.

 

I was watching the fight last night thinking that neither of these guys would go very far against a top 10 fighter, and frankly I think that a guy like Ben Askren could take them.

[ampulator]

Look how wrong I was about King Karl James Noons Esquire.

 

It was a pretty good card. I like Diaz but I still think he loses against most other top 10 welterweights and against any other good wrestler. It's nice to see Woodley get his sizzle back as well.

 

Also I thought JZ won. The 30-27 Thompson scorecard was a travesty.

I think even Thompson himself was surprised he got a unanimous decision. Even he couldn't see how all three judges gave it to him. The fight was very, very close. Very classy of him to admit this.

[brashleyholland]

Check out their youtube vids. They aren't actually that bad. But Diaz became a little less promotable after the 'Brawl'. The whole Cesar Gracie camp did.

 

I'd completely disagree. Jake Shields has gone on to be one fight away from fighting for one of the most prestigious titles in the sport against one of it's highest profile fighters. Nobody remembers that Gil was even involved.

 

As for Diaz, he's parleyed the whole thing into part of his 'bad boy' image. Take the new (Paul Heyman produced) EA MMA ads...Diaz is featured mean mugging and eventually assaulting a PA. He's laughing the experience all the way to the bank; if anything it's made him more promotable.

[ampulator]

I'd completely disagree. Jake Shields has gone on to be one fight away from fighting for one of the most prestigious titles in the sport against one of it's highest profile fighters. Nobody remembers that Gil was even involved.

 

As for Diaz, he's parleyed the whole thing into part of his 'bad boy' image. Take the new (Paul Heyman produced) EA MMA ads...Diaz is featured mean mugging and eventually assaulting a PA. He's laughing the experience all the way to the bank; if anything it's made him more promotable.

Besides, if anyone REALLY thinks he would attack a PA for no reason, they really have a warped belief about Nick Diaz. It was a good ad.

[Daffanka]

Speaking of Jake Shields, does anyone actually think he'll be some sort of constant top 10 UFC welterweight?

 

He's a very good top position grappler but his wrestling and kickboxing just aren't plain there. Taking down Hendo, a feat performed by olympic caliber wrestlers Ninja, Wanderlei, Misaki and both Nogs doesn't really mean anything when you're talking about an ultra competitive division ruled by guys who either have real good wrestling or a nasty sprawl.

 

Seriously Shields just basically bear hugs his way into takedowns, his penetration step is awful. If he tried that against Alves he'd get his skull caved in.

 

I think Kampmann's going to decision him hard.

[ampulator]

Speaking of Jake Shields, does anyone actually think he'll be some sort of constant top 10 UFC welterweight?

 

He's a very good top position grappler but his wrestling and kickboxing just aren't plain there. Taking down Hendo, a feat performed by olympic caliber wrestlers Ninja, Wanderlei, Misaki and both Nogs doesn't really mean anything when you're talking about an ultra competitive division ruled by guys who either have real good wrestling or a nasty sprawl.

 

Seriously Shields just basically bear hugs his way into takedowns, his penetration step is awful. If he tried that against Alves he'd get his skull caved in.

 

I think Kampmann's going to decision him hard.

That's what I dislike (objectively) about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. They know what to do on the ground, but real problem is getting there. An old saying goes: 80% of the fights go the ground, but a 100% of the fights start standing up. Wrestlers these days know enough Jiu-Jitsu to not get subbed these days, if not more.

 

If you ask me, I think BJJ users need to start cross-training as much as Wrestlers are. Some Judo, Sambo, American Freestyle Wrestling, Greco-Roman Wrestling, other styles of submission wrestling will do wonders.

 

I'm not so concerned about the sprawl. You just have to do what GSP does... make them think it's standup fight, then BAM, clinch them to get a takedown or just go straight for it.

[Mr_Tricky]

I just want to see GSP vs Shields. It's not like there's anyone else for GSP to fight at WW, might as well make that fight while Jake is ranked highly.

[ampulator]

The problem isn't that WW division isn't deep enough, but rather, George St. Pierre has beaten everyone that is worth beating. If it comes to the fact he's having to fight more than every six months, it's time for him to move up.

[brashleyholland]

I just want to see GSP vs Shields. It's not like there's anyone else for GSP to fight at WW, might as well make that fight while Jake is ranked highly.

 

That's what it boils down to for me really as well. I'm not confident of his ability to swim in the UFC's WW division, where the one unique thing that brought him success in Strikeforce - a suffocating top game - is ten a penny in the UFC. And like Daff said, the guys who can't out-wrestle him will crack him coming in.

 

Kampmann has spoiled the début of an 'outsider' who came in with a lot of bluster before, and it's completely possible that he'd do it again...I'm just not sure that I want him to. Shields vs GSP is something different; we're looking at the champ's next few fights being Kos (seen it before, no reason to think it'd be any different this time), Fitch (ditto) and Hardy (same again).

 

I think Shields would be best served to have a crack at GSP then get up to 185.

[ampulator]

Don't you want to see Kampmann/GSP? In any case, I think GSP is actually close to getting done with the welterweight division, despite how good and big it is.

 

Damn, is GSP some sort of extreme learning machine, or what? I never seen a fighter learn as much as he has, and actually doing better in areas than specialists in said areas (Fitch and Koscheck in wrestling, for example).

[brashleyholland]

Don't you want to see Kampmann/GSP? In any case, I think GSP is actually close to getting done with the welterweight division, despite how good and big it is.

 

Nope. Takedown, strike, pass, strike, stand-up, takedown, strike, pass, submission attempt, strike, stand-up, takedown...etc etc.

 

Kampann is one of my favourite fighters to watch, and while I do think he has more on the ground for GSP than say, Hardy or Alves, I don't see the end result being much different.

 

Damn, is GSP some sort of extreme learning machine, or what? I never seen a fighter learn as much as he has, and actually doing better in areas than specialists in said areas (Fitch and Koscheck in wrestling, for example).

 

He's something special. I really want to see how good he is at 185.

[ampulator]

Obviously, he works hard. But there's some really... strange about him. I can't quite put my finger on it. For a division that's deep as Welterweight, he should have TONS of challenges. Yet, even the mighty UFC struggles to keep giving him fresh opponents.

 

I suspect the reason why George St. Pierre might not want to go up to Middleweight: he will be fighting against some really, really big dudes. Yushin Okami is 6' 2". He might have significant reach disadvantage.

[brashleyholland]

 

I suspect the reason why George St. Pierre might not want to go up to Middleweight: he will be fighting against some really, really big dudes. Yushin Okami is 6' 2". He might have significant reach disadvantage.

 

Look at Hardy and Fitch though. Fitch is 6'1 and although I don't know how much he weights fight time, he looks big at the weight. I do know that Hardy (6') normally hits the scales at 190+.

 

Obviously the counter-point is that at 185, he's potentially going to be facing 200lb monsters; not good for a guy who is often the smaller fighter in his own weight class.

 

But then that's the who point of going up, right? What we're saying is that GSP is simply better at what he does than everyone his own size, so in order to test himself, he needs to fight bigger people. He's a sportsman at the end of the day, he's made his money...surely he feels the same way.

[ampulator]

I know, I know. But I don't think GSP wants to. He wants to surpass Hughes record in WW for wins. For me, that's a nice thought, but GSP himself has already beaten Hughes, and GSP has fought tougher competition over a period of time.

 

He needs to understand he won't be able to reach that record, not because he's not as good, but rather, because he's SO good, he's already beaten the top competition in a hugely competitive division so well, he's almost got no one else left.

[jesterx7769]

I want to see GSP vs. Shields because I think it has potential to be good, depending how good Shields is. Shields dominated Hendo so the question to me is Shields really that good or was Hendo off? I partly question him because he wasn't stellar against Daley which was the first time I watched him live and I kept thinking why cant he finish him and felt the same about the Miller fight as he didnt look dominant.

 

if his wrestling and BJJ is that good, it won't be a pure wrestling clinic between the two, they will have to mix in their striking and lots of people have forgotten GSP came in as a striker and has since evolved into a conservative wrestler. Also if you watch the Alves fight, he was landing lots of 3 strike combos on Alves when they were on their feet.

 

However I am worried Kampman will win and spoil it since Kampman probably wont get the title shot.

 

While I am a GSP fan, I actually would kinda like to see Shields win (or Kos I guess but I dont really like him, dangit Johnson why did you lose!) just to shake things up and give us either GSP/ SHields 2, or Kos/GSP 3 just because the WW division has been stagnant as everyone has said. Because of the lack of top contenders people have gotten fed to GSP before they are really ready and dont have as much hype as they should forcing the UFC to hype hype hype the title match i.e. Alves and Hardy and now even Kos who sticks out as getting KO'd by Thiago in my mind and I couldnt really except as an elite top P4P fighter

 

As for MW, while a Silva/GSP match of course appeals to me, I just think Silva would def. win once again despite being a GSP fan. Could he beat the likes of Bisping, Leben, and Belcher? I would def. say yes. Its Sonnen, Vitor, Nate, and Maia that worry me since you are looking at guys that are naturally bigger and that have cut down from 205 so you are basically trying to fight a person with similar skills/style but who naturally outweighs you by alot, I just dont know if he could do it consistently. However if he could win the belt off Silva (hypothetically he's the champ) and can defend it even say twice, it would be hard not to pencil him in as the best fighter of all time.

 

BTW I agree the Hughes record is somewhat of a factor, especially considering their relationship I think he would like to say he beat his record.

[Daffanka]

I want to see GSP vs. Shields because I think it has potential to be good, depending how good Shields is. Shields dominated Hendo so the question to me is Shields really that good or was Hendo off? I partly question him because he wasn't stellar against Daley which was the first time I watched him live and I kept thinking why cant he finish him and felt the same about the Miller fight as he didnt look dominant.

 

I point you to a multitude of fights in which Hendo was taken down by awful to mediocre wrestlers. Misaki, Rogerio, Ninja, Wanderlei. Shields isn't a particularly good wrestler because while he's actually decent at closing the distance without getting smacked his penetration step is dreadful and he basically tries to bear hug guys to the floor. It's not going to work against GSP, Fitch, Koscheck, Alves, Hathaway (see Diego Sanchez) or a bunch of other guys. Kampmann doesn't have stellar wrestling so he might get taken down and decisioned but once Shields gets smashed by GSP he's not going to be very successful unless they managed to consistently make him fight Brits that aren't Hathaway.

[TheKenwyne]

Any other GDS-ers at the Fan Expo/UFC 120 tomorrow?

[ampulator]

I point you to a multitude of fights in which Hendo was taken down by awful to mediocre wrestlers. Misaki, Rogerio, Ninja, Wanderlei. Shields isn't a particularly good wrestler because while he's actually decent at closing the distance without getting smacked his penetration step is dreadful and he basically tries to bear hug guys to the floor. It's not going to work against GSP, Fitch, Koscheck, Alves, Hathaway (see Diego Sanchez) or a bunch of other guys. Kampmann doesn't have stellar wrestling so he might get taken down and decisioned but once Shields gets smashed by GSP he's not going to be very successful unless they managed to consistently make him fight Brits that aren't Hathaway.

To be honest, I think Henderson just don't have the greatest TDD. He's great offensively as a wrestler, but defensively, he's a bit less than desired.

[Daffanka]

http://www.unitedglory.tv/live/?id=1992b18695f3776c4a04c6ac25717584&ref=

 

Free MMA and kickboxing to get y'all pumped for 120, I think it's Golden Glory's promotion.

 

Also Mauro and Bas are in the commentary booth and Bas is pulling double duty as commentator and announcer hahaha

[Anderz]

its on British Eurosport as well.. had just started watching it when I noticed this link..

 

kept me busy for half an hour anyway

[LoNdOn]

Holy crap. Hardy got clocked. That sucked.

[Anderz]

this is an awful night to be English..

 

Dan Hardy? I blame the beard.. if he'd shaved, his chin wouldve been stronger..

 

John Hathaway didnt look anything like the Hitman we saw beat on Diego.. and James Wilks has always been a tad awful.. Im a firm believer that his winning TUF was a fluke..

 

everything now rests on Michael Bisping.. lets hope hes as good as he thinks he is..