NEW WRITERS, A Question

[FINisher]

My advice would to write multiple shows and test the forum layout before making the diary, etc.. Also try to read as much as possible from the great writers

[James Casey]

Also try to read as much as possible from the great writers

 

I'll second this.

 

Without wanting to sound negative, many diaries aren't written very well.

 

I say this as someone who's written some awful, awful trash in the past.

 

Awful.

 

However, there are diaries out there that have never come within sight of a grammar or spell checker. Diaries where the formatting is a killer.

 

Then there are diaries where the presentation is great! But the content?

 

Someone once commented that they had no idea I'd written anything other 10 Simple Rules, but it's my seventh diary on the board, going back something like four or five years. During that time I read almost every diary, good or bad, going. It helped improve what I was doing a lot - I don't think you can read the combined works of Monkeypox, J Silver, Scapino, BriFidelity, shipshirt and the others without picking up a few tips.

 

And along the way I wrote some awful trash.

 

Awful.

 

Also? Write often. If you throw a post together once a fortnight, your diary will spend a lot of time off the first couple of pages just because people won't remember it. I've tried to update my MAW diary between 4 and 5 times a week - and that's in spite of having a full-time job and a baby. Very few writers (and I'm certainly not one of them) can inspire the kind of loyalty that keeps their diaries bumped when they're not posting in them.

 

However, I suspect that it comes down to how much you enjoy the writing. I've loved writing my diary - all 1,600 pages of it. Yes, I've written to show people, and getting no responses would have been disheartening - there've been plenty of times when I was the only one keeping my diary. Ultimately, though, the story was one I wanted to tell, so I told it.

[Self]

If I were a new writer, I'd consider looking into Polls. I think a lot of readers find replying to topics a little awkward, mainly because you have to think of something to say. I know I've read some really cool shows in the past, but have neglected to comment because I couldn't think of any witty or unique praise to give.

 

Polls are a lot easier. Couple of clicks and you're done. In my (3 time DOTM winning) diary, I only used Polls once, and the amount of responses I received was amazing. Usually I got 5-8 written replies per show, but with the poll I got 35. Over triple my usual yield! I believe Foolinc used polls heavily in one of his projects (I stole the idea from him) and got similarly awesome results. Readers like polls. Go to Surveymonkey or some similar site and think about how you can incorporate them into your project. Even it it's just one simple 'Show-Good/Show-Bad?' question.

 

As 'Best New Writer' in 2009's DOTY awards (glee!) I'm sure I can rant on about other things, but I'll leave you with just this tidbit for now.

[jhd1]

My advice would to write multiple shows and test the forum layout before making the diary, etc.. Also try to read as much as possible from the great writers

 

I suppose I would be seen as a new writer (if a writer at all) and I have to agree with FIN. I wrote what would become my first post about three weeks ago, my first show the same day and I've written the majority of the next three/four shows and got the bare minimum for another three - of those I haven't even posted one show yet. In other words, I'm prepared and I know how it will look and how it will read.

 

Whilst some may disagree, I also find that playing a month or so ahead helps me a lot - if I decided after three weeks in game that I'm bored with it then I haven't got to stop a diary that has barely begun.

[TLLK]

I'm planning on writing a diary soon. What's the best way to connect with everyone else, make them part of the dynasty? I've been reading dynasties on here for a while now, and I think the best ones are the ones who let you actually be a part of the whole experience.

What I'm basically asking is what else can I do besides predictions?

[jhd1]

I'm planning on writing a diary soon. What's the best way to connect with everyone else, make them part of the dynasty? I've been reading dynasties on here for a while now, and I think the best ones are the ones who let you actually be a part of the whole experience.

What I'm basically asking is what else can I do besides predictions?

 

Perhaps those surveymonkey things? Give prizes for predictions (decision-based prizes I mean)?

 

From a personal standpoint, if you want to draw readers in then having a bunch of surveys, polls and prizes isn't going to get me to read something that is a) badly written or b) not appealing to read. People find reading a lot of text on a computer screen difficult at the best of times and forums don't make it any easier. Pictures, paragraphs, colour and good writing will draw readers in and whilst having readers be a part of the dynasty is fun for you and the reader, the content will always be the most important thing.

[Self]

I'm planning on writing a diary soon. What's the best way to connect with everyone else, make them part of the dynasty? I've been reading dynasties on here for a while now, and I think the best ones are the ones who let you actually be a part of the whole experience.

What I'm basically asking is what else can I do besides predictions?

 

What I had for a while in addition to predictions was 'Fan Voting'. Issues would come up that the Authority Figure couldn't solve, so he left it up to the fans to decide for him. For example, one week the winner of a Battle Royal was up for dispute, so I let the fans to decide who got the prize.

 

Eventually I dropped the concept because I'm a control freak, but for a while I was really high on the idea. I think people dug it. They were contributing to the show, while not breaking kayfabe.

[Remianen]

I'll second this.

 

Without wanting to sound negative, many diaries aren't written very well.

 

I say this as someone who's written some awful, awful trash in the past.

 

Awful.

 

However, there are diaries out there that have never come within sight of a grammar or spell checker. Diaries where the formatting is a killer.

 

I didn't want to specifically say anything but, this. MY GOD, this.

 

There are many people who will say "You know what they mean!" but that's not even close to the point. If your writing is difficult to read or understand, people will stop trying to do so. Many people read things as they're written, not like you mean it. Thus, misusing terms like there/their/they're and your/you're can completely kill the flow of a piece and make it unreadable (or nearly so). Streams of consciousness can also kill you (no one's going to read the massive block of unbroken text).

 

People judge a diary based on what they read, not what you meant. No one knows exactly what you meant but you. Keep that in mind.

 

The pre-writing advice is also great. I haven't written a lot of diaries but my next one's going to be a long haul. Why? Well, because I have every show plotted out for the first six months (so far) and I'm writing new entries almost daily. The only thing left to do is book them ingame and run the shows (which I'll do once the mod is final ).

[Rayelek]

I tend to have trouble sticking with a game, especially if something comes around that makes me go, "Oooh, shiny," so to speak, so I can see how pre-writing would help. Also, when I make mistakes in my games, it really kills my drive to continue them (ie. forgetting to make an event for the month in my 2002 Draft Diary) and that is usually when they sputter out.

 

I fully plan to try a diary in 2010 as soon as I buy the game () but at $15/week, saving up isn't something I'm good at.

[The Masked Orange]

My first dynasty, a 21CW dynasty in the 08 forum, was generally well received and I got quite a few replies.

 

The reason why it ended early was I got quite a bad reaction for the debut of Cornell as part of the company, and that turned people off. It really killed my enthusiasm and made we switch much too hastily into another project that wasn't thought out properly and soon ended itself.

 

With my latest dynasty, I've decided to screw the opinions of my readers and write when I want to write with however long an interval I want.

 

So sometimes you really have to decide who the dynasty is for, if you want people to read it then you're gonna get shot down with early attempts, most people are. If you write for yourself then it's more a Field of Dreams thing. Write it and eventually they will come.

[Beeker]

I'm going to sound like a crotchety old man here, but I'm a bit different than a lot of the writers here. I know that if I started a dynasty tomorrow I'd get a lot of views, despite having only written one 'meh'ish dynasty on this board.

 

Why? Because four (ye gawds!) four years ago I finished one of the top backyard comedy dynasties on EWB. And I've revisited it. It's still funny. I never once asked for predictions, I never once begged for responses (ok, maybe once) but what it did, and my short lived 07 HaLF dynasty did were 'find the hook' so to speak. A backyard dynasty that ended at cult? A promotion based around mini wrestlers? Not every dynasty needs such a hook but what the best ones have... and I canNOT stress this enough are the following

 

- Characters. Distinct characters. Make me care about them. Make them so memorable they become CVerse canon (I'm looking at you Jim "Buy my Merchandise" Foooooorce.) I actually don't care about matches in dynasties anymore, but give me storylines and characters that engage me.

 

- Spelling. Spellcheck it. Visually too. If I read about... 'then outta nowhere Owen Loveh it his partnerd with a butt.' I check out. I'm looking for the next diary to invest in.

 

- Grammar. Of for the love of Cornell grammar. Capitalize what should be capitalized. Punctuate where it is required. If you want to do a list about the good things in life, use a semi-colon; then list, what's great, about life.

 

- Don't beg. I'm sorry, one three line backstory and a prediction card, the next post should not be "BUMPING SO U'll VOTE." Writing is a lonely task. The rewards come from within first, when a character takes a sudden unexpected turn. The readers will come if you make it intriguing. Worrying that no one has comment on the first three posts is a bit like wondering why no one bought your new video game when you had three photoshop images of what you hope the game will look like in the end.

 

How do you get good readers and readerships?

 

Write good, ongoing stories.

[Lo-Drew]

I'm also a new writer, but for other new writers, take your time into your dyanasty. Nothing turns a reader off when you constantly mispell wordss. Also, study other people's dynasty's on presation, format that way you get a feel for it. Don't constantly go from project to project, just stick to one and the readers will follow.

[Irish Wolf]

- Grammar. Of for the love of Cornell grammar. Capitalize what should be capitalized. Punctuate where it is required. If you want to do a list about the good things in life, use a semi-colon; then list, what's great, about life.

 

If you can properly use a semicolon I don't care about the actual content of your diary I will read it.

[Astil]

I'm going to sound like a crotchety old man here, but I'm a bit different than a lot of the writers here. I know that if I started a dynasty tomorrow I'd get a lot of views, despite having only written one 'meh'ish dynasty on this board.

 

Why? Because four (ye gawds!) four years ago I finished one of the top backyard comedy dynasties on EWB. And I've revisited it. It's still funny. I never once asked for predictions, I never once begged for responses (ok, maybe once) but what it did, and my short lived 07 HaLF dynasty did were 'find the hook' so to speak. A backyard dynasty that ended at cult? A promotion based around mini wrestlers? Not every dynasty needs such a hook but what the best ones have... and I canNOT stress this enough are the following

 

- Characters. Distinct characters. Make me care about them. Make them so memorable they become CVerse canon (I'm looking at you Jim "Buy my Merchandise" Foooooorce.) I actually don't care about matches in dynasties anymore, but give me storylines and characters that engage me.

 

- Spelling. Spellcheck it. Visually too. If I read about... 'then outta nowhere Owen Loveh it his partnerd with a butt.' I check out. I'm looking for the next diary to invest in.

 

- Grammar. Of for the love of Cornell grammar. Capitalize what should be capitalized. Punctuate where it is required. If you want to do a list about the good things in life, use a semi-colon; then list, what's great, about life.

 

- Don't beg. I'm sorry, one three line backstory and a prediction card, the next post should not be "BUMPING SO U'll VOTE." Writing is a lonely task. The rewards come from within first, when a character takes a sudden unexpected turn. The readers will come if you make it intriguing. Worrying that no one has comment on the first three posts is a bit like wondering why no one bought your new video game when you had three photoshop images of what you hope the game will look like in the end.

 

How do you get good readers and readerships?

 

Write good, ongoing stories.

 

A lot of this, but mostly ... what I bolded. I have a good SWF game, which may become a dynasty some day, but not yet. Why? None of the characters pop.

 

However having that 'guy' alone is nothing. Give him a struggle to define him. I'm thinking of Comradebot's Bam Bam as being a great example here. You have a good character in Bam Bam, how do you make him great ... take away his Alpha. Redefine him. C-Bot took the character and turned him into a 'guy', something we can relate to.

 

I know I'm rambling now, so I'll cut it short.

 

TL:DR Characters alone are good, storylines should make them great

[Terminator980]

If you can properly use a semicolon I don't care about the actual content of your diary I will read it.

 

Ha, I never know when to use one. It's something I never learned in school (I think I was sick that day).

[Kainlock]

Well I will talk as ab avid reader of many diaries and as a soon to be writer. I read lots of diaries, almost everyone that pops up, but I don't comment in hardly any of them. I don't know why really but I just don't. Take Big Papa's new TCW diary. I check almost every day to see if anything is new, but I hardly ever comment on his even though it is my favorite. I have no good reason really other then the only real input is "I love it" and it is "great".

 

I guess maybe I should take the time to write something every couple of days to just let someone know that I do enjoy a diary. I know once I start writing mine that I would love to see feedback and people enjoying it, but I am a hypocrite because I don't provide enough of that to my favorites.

 

But I always thought it came down to if you are a writer you need to do it for yourself. I know I am. Is my work going to be the best? No. is it going to win awards? No. Is it going to get comment? probably not. I will write it because I want to and really want to share my idea's for characters and the story. I just hope that somewhere out there is someone like me that becomes a huge fan and loves every minute of it. Even if he never let me or anyone know!

[James Casey]

I should say I can certainly see the problem from a lot of newcomers perspective. Before I came to writing wrestling, I wrote a lot of fanfic and, while that proved hugely valuable and fun for me, I never quite seemed to click with a wider fanbase.

 

A lot of my stuff was relatively short and sort of fell between the epics that 50% of the fans loved, and the one-shot that the other 50% loved. I could do both (and did) but in spite of the fact that my stories held up (and continue to hold up) against almost every other writer out there (fear the ego!), I didn't necessarily get the same number of reviews as others.

 

I didn't want to get too bogged down by it - I had a loyal group of fans who'd review everything I wrote, and sometimes I came out with something that just popped, but I knew that I was writing pieces that made me happy first, and others not so much.

 

Writing a 21CW diary? OLLIE? PGHW? You're going to have fight to get readers interested?

 

SWF? TCW? USPW? There's a lot of competition out there, including some real heavyweights.

 

Canada? If you can cope with your readers wondering when the first Stone or DeColt will show up/leave (delete as applicable) then you could have a good run?

 

CZCW? Seems like only one writer can do the Zone.

 

MAW? It's been done

 

Oh, and one addendum to the spelling thing: Don't just rely on a spellchecker. Sometimes you're going to write the wrong word and the computer won't pick it up. There's one writer here whose stuff I really enjoy, but I almost always see one 'wrong' word in one of their posts. It throws me more, I suspect, because I'm looking for it

 

So, we're a picky bunch: We want decent spelling and grammar, we want you to put in a lot of work, we want characters who jump off the page(screen), we want good presentation, and we want it all yesterday.

 

We're a tough bunch to please. But on the other hand, we're not EWB. They use newbies for toothpicks over there.

 

We'll try and help if you're having issues (the diary preview thread exists for just that reason). Checking out the Diary Writing Tips thread, which isn't too dissimilar to this one, might help as well.

[Self]

When you're thinking of writing a dynasty, think about who you want the reader to be rooting for. Do you want them to be rooting for the wrestlers? Or do you want them to be rooting for the booker? The audience have to be given someone to root for, or else why would they care? It doesn't matter whether your hero is the booker or a selection of wrestlers, they should be entertaining, they should have goals, and they should face challenges that threaten their completion of those goals.

 

It's one thing to book Robbie Retro to be SWF Champion, but its another thing for the audience to be hoping that despite his injured arm, Robbie can overcome the monstrous Runaway Train to get the title.

 

It's one thing to be happy you booked an 'A' rated show, but it's another thing to have the audience wanting you to get an 'A' rated show, despite Jack Bruce's no-show, and be cheering you on when you manage it.

 

Maybe I'm way off. Maybe people just read dynasties for booking ideas and jokes about bull-shark testosterone. I like drama though.

[Bigpapa42]

Some interesting points being made... Don't wanna quote the full posts, as it will make a mess, so...

 

Beeker - agree about characters being your greatest hook as a writer. They are more likely to be what is remembered about your diary than the anything else - great matches, great shows, great storylines...

 

Kainlock - I know exactly what you mean about leaving comments (and thanks for the shout-out). I tend to go in cycles with leaving comments in diaries I read regularly, beyond trying to predict on most shows. But I find the comments are entirely repetitive - just basic "Great show, as always" stuff. I don't mean to be repetitive, but like you say, its just basically giving a "thumbs up" in general. I would like to have more to say more regularly - analysis of a given show, breakdown a character's development, whatever. But its usually just a "like it, keep it up"...

 

Mr. Casey - also agree. Its a growth process. Its possible to come in and establish yourself on the first go (Self, myself, etc), but probably more likely to take a first tries before you find things.

 

Self - drama is indeed key, good sir. Its where the whole idea of "telling a story" comes in. Have a story to tell. Always be telling your story, with each show and each segment. When you aren't doing that, its basically just a watcher diary. There are nothing wrong with those, and they can be quite amusing, but it all depends on what you are trying to do with it. No matter how awesome your characters are, they need to be doing something.

 

A point that has been mentioned a few times is having an understanding of what you are getting into. What promotion you are choosing. Every choice has its own positive and negatives. There are issues whether you choose real world or CornellVerse. Picking a big promotion or a small one. Creating a new promotion has its own barriers. Any choice can have its own merits. I am simply saying that you need to understand that and be aware of them when making the choice.

[ReapeR]

I would love to see the excel sheet or word document that some of you great writers use.

 

Meaning, how do you outline your main story arch. What are your "pencilled in" notes on who to push, why and how?

 

I'll use Eisen-Verse as an example just for the fact that he created his own company.

 

What did you use (couldn't have all been in your head) when you first thought of the idea? How do you lay it out on paper before booking the show/writing up the event? etc...

 

Not sure if I'm clear on what I'm asking for. Hence why I don't write diaries.

 

Hopefully someone will understand what I'm trying for.

 

R

[mistaken]

not sure how "welcoming" or "inviting" this thread is. But it seems to be serving a propose so I am cool with the direction it went.

 

as long as we are talking about readers. Any Ideas on how to recognize them with some kind of thank you awards?

[ReapeR]

not sure how "welcoming" or "inviting" this thread is. But it seems to be serving a propose so I am cool with the direction it went.

 

as long as we are talking about readers. Any Ideas on how to recognize them with some kind of thank you awards?

 

Are you talking about rewarding READERS?

 

If so, every reader can go to the title belt page and pick one. They are on the house.

[angeldelayette]

I would love to see the excel sheet or word document that some of you great writers use.

 

Meaning, how do you outline your main story arch. What are your "pencilled in" notes on who to push, why and how?

 

I'll use Eisen-Verse as an example just for the fact that he created his own company.

 

What did you use (couldn't have all been in your head) when you first thought of the idea? How do you lay it out on paper before booking the show/writing up the event? etc...

 

Not sure if I'm clear on what I'm asking for. Hence why I don't write diaries.

 

Hopefully someone will understand what I'm trying for.

 

R

 

Not that I'm a great writer by any stretch of the imagination, but I used to do a lot more of the Word Documents in 08 than I have in 10. One of the big Word Documents that I use right now though I haven't updated it in awhile is called: 'uspwslowridestrengths'. What this lays out is what their biggest strength is when it comes to angles. Is it Overness, Entertainment, Microphone, Acting, Sex Appeal or Menace? Whichever one that it is, I tend to focus in on that one when doing angles for that wrestler to get the best possible grade. I also include whether or not their gimmick is a 'Brute' gimmick as these guys tend to get the best out of squashes.

[mistaken]

Are you talking about rewarding READERS?

 

If so, every reader can go to the title belt page and pick one. They are on the house.

 

talking about rewarding those readers who contribute as much to these boards as many of the writers.

 

people like Reaper here are a good example (he makes the belts that rock hard in many of our top dynasties)

 

but also readers like Game Face who was an early supporter of Never more.

 

or (i admit here I am to lazy to go look it up) A reader like the one that Moneypox played off of in his diaries. The readers that when everybody else seems to have moved on are still there supporting their favorite writers and telling them to keep at it.

[ReapeR]

talking about rewarding those readers who contribute as much to these boards as many of the writers.

 

people like Reaper here are a good example (he makes the belts that rock hard in many of our top dynasties)

 

but also readers like Game Face who was an early supporter of Never more.

 

or (i admit here I am to lazy to go look it up) A reader like the one that Moneypox played off of in his diaries. The readers that when everybody else seems to have moved on are still there supporting their favorite writers and telling them to keep at it.

 

Yes, the diary "groupies". Sorta. Honestly, I don't think they need much if anything. They are the ones that are here/reading/commenting for the right reasons. Their thank you's come from PM's and "cameos" in diaries or by the diary writer answering their comments.

 

I don't know, maybe a small corner in the Diary Hall of Fame???