How do you get a "B" show?

[LoganRodzen]

... but do those 'Not Rated' dudes gain popularity from their involvement? That's what doesn't fit for me. Plenty of angles have 'Not Rated' guys, no arguments there, but does standing in a hallway while The Rock cuts an awesome promo really give you a rub? Does it in the game? I don't know. Never tried. Never will. Not my cup of tea.

 

I'll drink that cup of tea all day long. "Face Off, But No Contact" is by far one of the most handy angles in the entire game. I have two of my most over workers (Jay Chord & Davis Wayne Newton) working all three of my brands (two major and one minor). They're not wrestling or doing anything that interesting on the B-show, but they're at least doing angles with unknown workers and giving them chances to up their popularity and momentum.

 

I don't see it as 'cheap' because it's a default angle. Its purpose is exactly what you're steering away from. I have all of my workers on the B-show taking hits because they're literally 0 popularity in the US because they've all relocated from Australia, Japan, and Europe. So the only way I can raise their momentum is by putting them in angles with my top guys. I don't see it as 'cheap' because it's just another tool to build stars and get guys some exposure.

[Self]

Don't get me wrong. Putting top stars in angles with unknowns is AWESOME! I love using unknowns with good Menace to attack top guys, or unknowns with good Sex Appeal seducing top guys, or unknowns with good Entertainment skills talking to/at/with top guys. That rocks. I just hate using 'Not Rated'. To me it seems like getting something for nothing.

 

To each his own though.

[Bigpapa42]

This is impossible! I'm trying to get a "B" show, and not a single network is interested in carrying a "B" show. I'm International, and I've tried every size network there is. No one will accept a "B" show. This is impossible! How the hell are we supposed to get a "B" show when no networks accept it? I need this show because I need a way to bring up new talent and I don't have enough room on my show for the talent I do have! I can't run this size promotion with just one show.

 

The economy and industry levels can also come into play when trying to get a B show, it seems.

[ampulator]

In answer to the 'job up the card' thing, I'm fairly convinced product plays a big part in the effectiveness of that. With NOTBPW I had Tim Westybrook losing to top-class stars every week and his popularity EXPLODED! With TCW most of my rookies come in losing, but I can see definite popularity gains.

 

However, with CGC I had a rookie tag team that lost a match every week for a year. They barely got more popular. 'F' maybe 'F+'. In my diary game I noticed similar results, even when the losers totally rocked the house against awesome wrestlers, the popularity gains were barely noticable.

 

So product plays a part in it. It's easy to job up the card with Performance-based products, but when you're Sports Entertainment you're better off with Angles & Winning. That's my theory.

 

As for the trouble getting a B show, I reckon it's the war that's causing the trouble. If destroying your competition isn't an option, try ending the war, or as Jennie Bomb said, move to a different network yourself.

 

The thing is, in a performance-based product, those that are good performers will rise, regardless of winning or losing. In a performance-based product, it's not who's the winner, loser, or even who's more popular at the end of the day, but who puts on good matches.

 

The problem, though, in a purely performance-based product, you have to constantly build new stars through "training" them against better workers, or else your product quality will suffer. Raising someone's stats is a lot harder than raising their popularity.

[James Casey]

DGL, try doing a brand split with the second brand being your B brand. Even untelevised, you can still add a weekly show that you can send out to your less popular areas (say Japan or Australia) to train your guys, but not affect your popularity. (In fact, in '10 can't you specifically create a B brand? Or am I imagining that?)

 

Ir's not perfect, but if you want the training time it's not bad either. You're also not limited by show times, gore/intensity/whatever restrictions so you can experiment a bit on the show to see what might work.

[LoganRodzen]

DGL, try doing a brand split with the second brand being your B brand. Even untelevised, you can still add a weekly show that you can send out to your less popular areas (say Japan or Australia) to train your guys, but not affect your popularity. (In fact, in '10 can't you specifically create a B brand? Or am I imagining that?)

 

Ir's not perfect, but if you want the training time it's not bad either. You're also not limited by show times, gore/intensity/whatever restrictions so you can experiment a bit on the show to see what might work.

 

Yep. Major and minor brands.

[DreamGoddessLindsey]

DGL, try doing a brand split with the second brand being your B brand. Even untelevised, you can still add a weekly show that you can send out to your less popular areas (say Japan or Australia) to train your guys, but not affect your popularity. (In fact, in '10 can't you specifically create a B brand? Or am I imagining that?)

 

Ir's not perfect, but if you want the training time it's not bad either. You're also not limited by show times, gore/intensity/whatever restrictions so you can experiment a bit on the show to see what might work.

 

It's the popularity I need to build up, though, moreso than skills. I need a way to gain popularity for my people who have 0-50 without hurting my overall popularity. People with under 50 popularity simply can'y get good ratings. Not with my product at least.

[jhd1]

It's the popularity I need to build up, though, moreso than skills. I need a way to gain popularity for my people who have 0-50 without hurting my overall popularity. People with under 50 popularity simply can'y get good ratings. Not with my product at least.

 

What do you mean by 'not with my product?' What is your product? As for hurting your overall popularity see the below...

 

There is no way midcard matches really tank a show's rating...unless you make it the semi main or don't intersperse angles properly (to raise the crowd after being lowered a few times). In fact, if you adhere to perfect show theory, you HAVE to have those matches on the card.

 

If you put the low-pop workers in matches or angles with your top stars there is no way it can pull off a rating terrible enough to destroy your show. Unless, of course, you are trying to maintain a ridiculously high popularity rating.

 

And really to be honest if you can't get your rookies up without dropping some popularity for a while, is that not a sacrifice you should be making for the long-term benefits of having a second-level that can actually fill in once your top dogs have retired?

[LoganRodzen]

What do you mean by 'not with my product?' What is your product? As for hurting your overall popularity see the below...

 

If you put the low-pop workers in matches or angles with your top stars there is no way it can pull off a rating terrible enough to destroy your show. Unless, of course, you are trying to maintain a ridiculously high popularity rating.

 

And really to be honest if you can't get your rookies up without dropping some popularity for a while, is that not a sacrifice you should be making for the long-term benefits of having a second-level that can actually fill in once your top dogs have retired?

 

It's an unnecessary sacrifice I think. I have a slew of workers who have never worked in the US - I paid their relocation expenses - and to put them on a major show when they have literally 0 popularity throughout the US, but a ton of skill, is very damaging to a popularity > performance promotion.

 

My suggestion is wait it out until you can get a B-show. It'll be worth it when you finally get it. The ratings of my B-show have been in the 30's and 40's with some segments getting a 15. To put those guys on major TV - even in the middle of the show, where it doesn't affect the show rating - it will have a negative affect on segments around it because they're so terrible.

 

A B-show is truly necessary to introduce new talent when they're unknown in an area. Or an entire area which is the case for 80% of my minor brand. I have a ton of Japanese workers on my roster who aren't ready for live TV or a major show because they haven't even learned English yet. Gidayu Katou has been a different story though. He's picked up English and Spanish and has reached 80 average popularity throughout the US. He is the first worker I've successfully brought over to North America and made a star. *pats self on back*

[jhd1]

It's an unnecessary sacrifice I think. I have a slew of workers who have never worked in the US - I paid their relocation expenses - and to put them on a major show when they have literally 0 popularity throughout the US, but a ton of skill, is very damaging to a popularity > performance promotion.

 

My suggestion is wait it out until you can get a B-show. It'll be worth it when you finally get it. The ratings of my B-show have been in the 30's and 40's with some segments getting a 15. To put those guys on major TV - even in the middle of the show, where it doesn't affect the show rating - it will have a negative affect on segments around it because they're so terrible.

 

A B-show is truly necessary to introduce new talent when they're unknown in an area. Or an entire area which is the case for 80% of my minor brand. I have a ton of Japanese workers on my roster who aren't ready for live TV or a major show because they haven't even learned English yet. Gidayu Katou has been a different story though. He's picked up English and Spanish and has reached 80 average popularity throughout the US. He is the first worker I've successfully brought over to North America and made a star. *pats self on back*

 

I don't disagree, but as she can't get a B-show for love or money I was merely pointing out that if the situation stays the same then eventually she has to make a choice (building stars or mainting pop). But you're right, she'd be much better off with another show.

 

And yes, if you are having two unknown workers doing anything it is likely to bomb, but the notion that 'people under 50 simply can't get good ratings' is just not true.

[DreamGoddessLindsey]

To those claiming that only the main and semi-main contribute a lot to the final rating, that's simply not true. The middle segments can and do drag the show down. I can prove it. My most recent show:

 

Match 1: 74

84

55

Match 2: 61 (Jobber Squash Match)

89

85

Match 3: 75

87

52

Match 4: 77

85

77

Semi-Main Event: 86

95

Main Event: 88

Final Rating: 79

 

ANY segments that go below the average of the rest of the card garners a penalty at the end of the show. Each segment gives that penalty. So having ANY segments under your average hurts your final rating, and not just by a little, but by a lot (1% for each segment by the looks of it). By the math, this show still should have been a high B or low B+, but instead it was a low B.

 

So yes, you do have to pay attention to EVERY segment on the card, because every single one of them influences the final rating. I would say the main event garners far less than the supposed 70% of your grade, by my experience at least. I would say it is less than 50% to be honest. The non-main parts of the card are at least 50% of the grade.

 

As you can see, the final rating is much closer to the ring of the rest of the card than it is to the main event. The penalties for segments below average hurt the overall rating in the end. You can't just bank everything on the main event and the semi-main event.

 

This is why I'm having trouble getting new people built up in popularity. I can't afford to be putting on bad segments in the B- range (and yes B- is VERY bad when you're International) which is what happens when I try to build up people like I did at this event.

 

Worst thing is my television contract still has another year or so, meaning it'll be almost two years before I can even think about getting a B show. It's frustrating. This game makes me wanna pull my hair out sometimes. I'm no good at it.

[Thomnipotent]

If you're going for pop, then you must be running a pop-based promotion.

Try the good ol' 'Face Off' angles, where you have two main eventers facing off and a bunch of jobbers (not rated in the angle) pulling them apart.

That should get your jobbers a bit of popularity and momentum, along with screen time.

It may also be an idea to throw people lower on the card into storylines involving two or more of your more talented or over main eventers/upper midcarders as Minor Roles. This way you can use them sparingly, but they still see some benefit.

Furthermore, putting a less popular (but still capable) worker in a Triple Threat match with two high-pop workers can do wonders.

Another means of boosting these kinds of matches is by putting a prestigious title on the line. Sure, the champion will retain, but it's definitely going to boost the match quality.

Hmmmm... what else... okay, that's all I have for now. Give these ideas some consideration, though.

 

EDIT: One more... the first match of the night also contributes a lot to your rating. Not nearly as much as the main and semi-main, but... getting the crowd started with a good match is important. Also, it looks like some of your angles are simply bombing... I would say that a 52 angle is going to hurt the overall card much more than a 61 squash. Try to keep your angles out of the mud by only putting your most popular workers in them; that should go much further to keep your card ratings high than worrying about the jobbers' matches.

[chessarmy]

Why don't you put some of the jobbers on the pre-show? I know it doesn't give you much time, but its better than nothing at all.

[DreamGoddessLindsey]

Well when I have jobbers facing people I'm trying to boost up and push, there's no popularity gained from the pre-show. For the new person to push to gain any popularity, you have to put them on the main show for exposure.

[Remianen]

To those claiming that only the main and semi-main contribute a lot to the final rating, that's simply not true.

 

Okay, someone tell Adam he doesn't know his own game. I mean, he did say 70/20/10 but maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about. Also, the experiences of thousands of other people must be totally wrong as well.

 

I'm not even going to try to figure out what the real deal is behind that show's final rating. Reason being, even if I (or any of us) find what happened, you'll just dismiss it because it doesn't fit into your neat little box of how things SHOULD work. I think the height of arrogance is disputing what the game's primary developer has codified in writing as the way the game works. Here's what I'm talking about, in the 'Booking 101' section of the help file:

 

Structure: The most important match on any show is the main event, and so that should always be your priority. It is therefore always smart to book “backward” from the main event to the opener. The final show rating is always biased in a “top heavy” fashion; that means that the main event rating is always the most critical score, followed by the semi-final match, and so on. In most cases, the overall rating’s ratio will be approximately 70% main event, 20% semi final, and 10% undercard (the “undercard” refers to a rough average of every other match on the show). With the main event having such a high weight attached to it, it is therefore obvious that a show will live or die based on how good it is.

 

Now, you may very well be that unique snowflake that puts you outside of the 'in most cases' caveat. Perhaps you're running a pseudo wrestling promotion where angles are more numerous and expected to take up more show time than wrestling (BSC-esque) and you spent too much time on wrestling and got dinged at the end. Who knows? You mentioned nothing other than segment ratings and "Adam is wrong".

 

Here's the part that makes it stick out like a gangrenous thumb. Many, many, many people in this community, following the help files, have zero issue building stars. It might get difficult at times, but it's always doable. This, at local/small/regional/cult/national level pretty much equally. That tells me that you are either booking a bad product ('bad' meaning a combination of product features that contradict each other every step of the way, leading to a widely conflicted fanbase) or the product is fine but you're just not adept at booking to the product's strengths. Both of those things are easily fixed. What is not easily fixed is a perception on your part that the game itself is somehow fatally flawed because of your difficulties with it. At International size, you should be able to produce stars out of discarded broom sticks in a popularity based promotion. But apparently, there are many things you don't know (like how to get a B show), which could be contributing to your difficulty and angst. So my sincerest suggestion is to read the various threads here (especially the monstrous 'small questions' thread, in its entirety) and you might find answers that may help you solve the mysteries you're encountering. But labeling something 'impossible' before you've even asked (or while asking) HOW TO DO IT, seems awfully misguided to me.

[DreamGoddessLindsey]

Well I was frustrated because I tried every single television network in my area and none of them were willing to host a B show. How was I supposed to know you had to have an A show on the exact same network? That doesn't even make sense. WWE's shows have always been on different networks. Same with WCW. Naturally, I logically assumed that there was no "must have an A show on the same network" requirement. There was nothing anywhere to indicate that this rule was in place, including knowledge of how it works in the real world. That's all.

[Bigpapa42]

Well I was frustrated because I tried every single television network in my area and none of them were willing to host a B show. How was I supposed to know you had to have an A show on the exact same network? That doesn't even make sense. WWE's shows have always been on different networks. Same with WCW. Naturally, I logically assumed that there was no "must have an A show on the same network" requirement. There was nothing anywhere to indicate that this rule was in place, including knowledge of how it works in the real world.

 

Did you consider asking - perhaps in the Small Questions thread - before making a new thread to rant about it?

 

And actually, B shows typically have been shown on the same networks as the main show. WCW Thunder was on TNT. Heat was on USA while Raw was, then on Spike when Raw was. Velocity was on Spike same time as Raw.

[Phantom Stranger]

Well I was frustrated because I tried every single television network in my area and none of them were willing to host a B show. How was I supposed to know you had to have an A show on the exact same network?

 

Was the case in 2008, too. Has been discussed on these forums on a number of occasions.

[Truth]

WCW Thunder was on TNT. Heat was on USA while Raw was, then on Spike when Raw was.

 

Not true. Thunder was on the same channel as Saturday Night, TBS. Heat also started on MTV, before moving to USA. Superstars is on WGN, NXT/ECW is/was on Sci-Fi etc.

 

The larger point is correct. Was just in the mood to nit pick

[Bigpapa42]

Not true. Thunder was on the same channel as Saturday Night, TBS. Heat also started on MTV, before moving to USA. Superstars is on WGN, NXT/ECW is/was on Sci-Fi etc.

 

The larger point is correct. Was just in the mood to nit pick

 

Good point. I didn't double-check Thunder - just knew it was a channel that was part of the Turner network. There are typically direct connections. Sci-Fy is owned by NBC, who also own the USA Network. MTV and Spike TV are both part of Viacom. So even if the B show is on different channel, it is typically a channel that already has a direct connection to the promotion. An "investment" per se. Which makes the logic of why the shows must be on the same channel in the game still apply.

[Jennie Bomb]

I still think you'd benefit from not playing your mod and instead going and playing as, say, MAW or NYCW in the Cornellverse for a while.

 

Having said that... try changing your match ratio. You said it was 50/50 earlier. Move it to 70% matches. If it'll hurt your popularity, go to 60% and later move to 70%. You didn't say what angles you used - were they major or minor angles? Try and make sure angles you think will be highly rated will be major angles, and the lesser onces will be minor angles in order that they do no damage to the show rating.

[mikemelling]

I'll drink that cup of tea all day long. "Face Off, But No Contact" is by far one of the most handy angles in the entire game. I have two of my most over workers (Jay Chord & Davis Wayne Newton) working all three of my brands (two major and one minor). They're not wrestling or doing anything that interesting on the B-show, but they're at least doing angles with unknown workers and giving them chances to up their popularity and momentum.

 

I don't see it as 'cheap' because it's a default angle. Its purpose is exactly what you're steering away from. I have all of my workers on the B-show taking hits because they're literally 0 popularity in the US because they've all relocated from Australia, Japan, and Europe. So the only way I can raise their momentum is by putting them in angles with my top guys. I don't see it as 'cheap' because it's just another tool to build stars and get guys some exposure.

 

... Which is exactly what the WWE is doing with NXT. Sorry I'm late... lol.

 

If the show was on TV with just the NXT guys on there, not one of them would be "over" because less people would watch the show.