What is "cheating" to you?

[edenborn]

What strikes you as an abuse of the game? Something you won't do because it's too easy?

 

Frequently, I'll use Brute Domination and Menace angles. I enjoy setting up regular tournaments so my monster heels can get two or three quick squashes, then willingly lose that popularity and momentum boost to a winning babyface all in one night. Complete appreciation for those who'd consider that an abuse of the rules but since I like tournaments and I dig David vs. Goliath storytelling in my wrestling, I've no pangs about doing it.

 

On the other hand, I have a hard time putting workers in Not Rated angles so they gain popularity and momentum just by hanging around bigger superstars. I don't begrudge anyone doing it and I can see how it's especially worthwhile if you want angles in a product with a 90%+ match ratio. But I find myself feeling bad when I use it to give unpopular workers an undeserved superman boost, and as Remi said in another thread, "If you feel bad, then it is bad."

 

So where do you draw the line in your games? What won't you do?

[ampulator]

None of the situations you describe to me is cheating. If a guy is standing there, but being nondescript (and not menacing), then being "Not Rated" is fine.

 

I think they dont' get a boost as fast in their skills if you do that, though. For example, if you want to improve someone's entertainment skills, it's better to use rated on entertainment if you want to increase their skills there. You might take a hit in ratings, the worker might gain faster entertainment skills. I haven't tested this myself, though, so this is all hearsay. Assuming what some people in the small questions thread is correct, you might have a trade off. Do it non-rated, and you won't get hit as bad, but less skills boost, or do it on a specific skill, get a better skill boost, but take a hit on the rating.

 

So, no that's not cheating.

[galacticgonzo]

Yeah, I don't consider those things as cheating. They might be abuses but I think they're plausible. A wrestler CAN gain overness by being involved in a segment with the Rock and its unlikely that the wrestler's low overness would kill the crowd.

 

That's usually how I define "cheating." If you can imagine it working in real life and it seems plausible then its fair game. Inflating your money or resetting morale or stuff like that is straight up cheating. But as long as I can see myself being capable of doing it in real life I think its fair game.

 

But "if you feel guilty, its cheating" is a pretty good summation.

[edenborn]

None of the situations you describe to me is cheating. If a guy is standing there, but being nondescript (and not menacing), then being "Not Rated" is fine.

 

I think they dont' get a boost as fast in their skills if you do that, though. For example, if you want to improve someone's entertainment skills, it's better to use rated on entertainment if you want to increase their skills there. You might take a hit in ratings, the worker might gain faster entertainment skills. I haven't tested this myself, though, so this is all hearsay. Assuming what some people in the small questions thread is correct, you might have a trade off. Do it non-rated, and you won't get hit as bad, but less skills boost, or do it on a specific skill, get a better skill boost, but take a hit on the rating.

 

So, no that's not cheating.

Maybe it's a question of degree. For my liking, it's a little too easy to make every member of the nWo wildly over when the only rating is Hogan's Entertainment and every member of The Ministry wildly over when just rating Taker's Menace. Just seems harder to do in the real world. But by the same token, the same could surely be said of Brute Domination and Menace (ab)use.

Inflating your money or resetting morale or stuff like that is straight up cheating. But as long as I can see myself being capable of doing it in real life I think its fair game.

Yes, that's a good way of looking at it. I find it depends very much on the scenario in question--playing around with a Donald Trump-owned ECW the other day, I felt perfectly justified inflating money there, but I wouldn't in many other scenarios.

[Lex Star]

I like to set goals for myself in my games, like build up a specific superstar, take a local fed to cult, or whatever. There can be multiple goals, like in my game right now, I'm building up Edd Stone and Sean Deeley to become Main Eventers in my TCW game, and once I'm done with that, I'll find something else.

 

It's only "cheating" if you feel it is, and if it ruins trying to obtain your goal. Like in my example, if I just edited their Popularity to 100% throughout USA. That'd be "cheating" because it'd cheat me out of actually completing my goal.

 

If you want to run a small regional promotion full of guys with B+ Popularity, then who is to say that's wrong? It's your game, you can do what you want.

 

There's a reason the game has an in-game editor, and a reason you can import almost anything you want.

 

You can never "win" at TEW, the game can go on virtually forever (at least until you've simmed so many years it takes too long to sim each day that the game becomes unplayable to you.) , so there really isn't a way to "cheat" at a game that's literally unbeatable, unless you set your own "win conditions" that you try to achieve, but it's not actually part of the game.

[dormammu]

If I can justify it (in the sense that "I can see this working in real life") I don't feel like it's cheating. In my current save, my promotion is supposed to be owned by a billionaire who is running the promotion because it amuses him. Twice now I've edited more money into the promotion and haven't felt bad doing it because the owner is supposed to be loaded. It also isn't very much money (about 20k each time.) If I gave myself, for instance, 90 million dollars I might feel like that's cheating, even though 90 million wouldn't be all that much to someone worth 8 billion.

 

Other than that, though, using the editor to change stuff that has no conceivable "real life" basis (popularity, for instance) comes off as cheating.

 

Though what you listed (especially making custom angles) doesn't come off as cheating at all. Promotions in real life will make angles best suited to their workers, so why wouldn't you do that in game? I don't think it's cheating either.

 

Though, I've been playing since TEW 2005 and had no idea Not Rated roles affected workers. I always thought Not Rated roles were place holders and they had no effect. That does explain why one of my workers (who tends to stand around looking horrified at the unfolding events in my custom angles) is mysteriously getting more and more over for no reason I could figure out. Hmm... I guess that's it! I tend to use not rated roles to have people in the background in angles, but I might have to stop that now that I know they can be affected.

[galacticgonzo]

Yes, that's a good way of looking at it. I find it depends very much on the scenario in question--playing around with a Donald Trump-owned ECW the other day, I felt perfectly justified inflating money there, but I wouldn't in many other scenarios.

That's a good point. Its perfectly plausible for you to inflate your money resources if you're playing a game like that where a billionaire is financing the company. Certainly we've seen companies in real life get more money from rich financial backers and it makes as much sense as it does in your game.

 

But as said, yeah raising popularity in the editor would be the sort of thing I'd think totally unfair. Or I know I read a diary recently where the writer said he decreased WWE's prestige and popularity to give him a better chance as TNA, leading to them losing all their top flight guys because WWE was no longer good enough for the likes of Cena and Orton. That's just cheap. Unless you write some kind of narrative or story to explain it in your game for some reason its just randomly doing things you shouldn't be able to do.

 

But as said, you can do it if you want. There's no true winning or losing or competition in this. No one is impacted by cheating except you, so you can play however you want to play. But if you have to ask a question like "is this cheating" then it probably means you want to play by some kind of rules.

[dvdWarrior]

I like to make my User Character an active participant in my game world, oftentimes as a wrestler. Some folks might see that as cheating - it's pretty much a free wrestler, and if it's a talented User Character, then it's a good wrestler that you get for free who will never leave you... because he is you.

 

I guess I could see that as cheating... but I'm comfortable with it at this point.

 

I guess I'd see it as cheating to fix things in the in-game editor... editing a wrestler's contract so that it might be easier for you to get hold of him, editing stats or physical ratings or whatever.

 

I guess using the SOPHIE code might qualify as cheating as well, but, once again, I've made my peace with it.

 

[galacticgonzo]

See, t he Sophie cheat or the user character. That's all stuff I think can work in real life. You COULD be someone with perfect booker skills. Its unlikely but if that's the story you want to tell so be it. Obviously it lessens the challenge of the game but there's a reason some people play a video game on "Easy" and some "Hard."

 

For me, I'm using the SOPHIE cheat but I'm doing it because I'm still learning this game and am not very good at it. Its like playing a new video game on the lower levels so I can get a hang of it. Once I feel comfortable with my skills I'll probably ditch the cheat in my newer games and play it straight.

[TakerNGN74]

Like a few people have stated there is no real way to cheat in your games. The only thing I would consider cheating is using some of the codes that Adam released (The Sophie Code comes to mind) I use that code in all of my games now except for when I am running a dynasty. The FCW game I have that's 11 years in I used the Sophie Code right away but the only other game I have going besides that is my CGC Dynasty game and I didn't use it in that game.

 

One thing I would consider cheating and some people might not see it my way so if you don't feel free to disagree with what I have to say. However in some of my games that I have played in the past with Owner Goals turned on If I get an owner goal that I know that I am going to fail then the day before the goal is set to expire I go into my user preferences and turn off Owenr Goals so I can continue to play the game. Some might consider that cheating and some might not but that is the fun of discussing this topic so Kudos to edenborn for starting this topic!

[Eidenhoek]

Not following the rules of a multiplayer game; for example, if you and I promise not to expand into each others' territory, and I do it anyway. I have cheated. Or using the editor to **** you over/improve me (or the reverse, for that matter).

[TakerNGN74]

Not following the rules of a multiplayer game; for example, if you and I promise not to expand into each others' territory, and I do it anyway. I have cheated. Or using the editor to **** you over/improve me (or the reverse, for that matter).

 

Yeah that is the one thing that I would definately consider cheating I never really thought of that however if each person in the game had a password to access their turn you wouldn't be able to do that.

[ampulator]

Not following the rules of a multiplayer game; for example, if you and I promise not to expand into each others' territory, and I do it anyway. I have cheated. Or using the editor to **** you over/improve me (or the reverse, for that matter).

You need to read beyond the topic and actually read his post, because you didn't even answer his specific questions.

 

In any case, it's only blatant abuse if you think it's blatant abuse. For example, if you have person with crappy mic skills talking in an angle, I would be using "Microphone" because it's otherwise "cheating". But here's the catch - if the guy had great charisma and/or acting, you might just have the guy use his "Acting" or "Entertainment" skills so you give the worker more flexibility to get his point across. Or if the guy had a lot of Menace, then what matters is puts across the point that he's MENACING, and what he says matters less than he's menacing as heck.

 

For example, I wouldn't considering Macho Man has the highest of Mic skills (C-?), but he still cuts a great promo. How? Incredibly charisma, and good "acting" by wrestling standards. Or Ultimate Warrior as another example. He's terrible on the mic, and what he says is nonsense, but he's menacing AND charismatic, so you use those skills to your advantage.

 

Of course, you instruct a guy to talk strictly "straight" even when he has poor mic skills, but you give a bit flexibility in how he does his promo.

[Gigas]

I dont think you can really cheat at this game. I see it as more of a mod, and mods are made to be customized to your liking.

[Eidenhoek]

What is "cheating" to you?

 

I posted what "cheating" was to me. I suppose I implicitly answered "nothing" to the other questions.

[Remianen]

That's a good point. Its perfectly plausible for you to inflate your money resources if you're playing a game like that where a billionaire is financing the company. Certainly we've seen companies in real life get more money from rich financial backers and it makes as much sense as it does in your game.

 

What I tend to do is start with a lot of money to prevent having to do that. It is almost impossible to blow through $250 million in normal gameplay. You'd have to set that as a goal ("I'm gonna go bankrupt") to do it, really.

 

But as said, yeah raising popularity in the editor would be the sort of thing I'd think totally unfair. Or I know I read a diary recently where the writer said he decreased WWE's prestige and popularity to give him a better chance as TNA, leading to them losing all their top flight guys because WWE was no longer good enough for the likes of Cena and Orton. That's just cheap. Unless you write some kind of narrative or story to explain it in your game for some reason its just randomly doing things you shouldn't be able to do.

 

Please to be pointing me at this diary. I'd like to avoid it. The game world is dynamic enough that you'd get many of those workers anyway, though probably not as quickly.

 

I like to make my User Character an active participant in my game world, oftentimes as a wrestler. Some folks might see that as cheating - it's pretty much a free wrestler, and if it's a talented User Character, then it's a good wrestler that you get for free who will never leave you... because he is you.

 

How is that cheating, exactly? That's the part about this question that baffles me. Do the people who believe user characters are "cheats" actually follow wrestling besides watching it on Mondays and Fridays? Wrestling history is FULL of bookers and owners who Jesus push themselves (or their immediate relatives). Do they really think Greg Gagne was a good wrestler?

 

I've edited stats of workers during a game, but that was mainly to fix what was broken or stupid. Like Yoshiko Tamura with 50 basics but Eve Torres with 62. No AJW alum should have lower performance skills than a WWE diva. Nowadays, I just delete the damn mod rather than having to go through 200 workers and fix what's broken (like Beth Phoenix with better technical skills than Jaguar Yokota or Mariko Yoshida ).

 

 

See, t he Sophie cheat or the user character. That's all stuff I think can work in real life. You COULD be someone with perfect booker skills. Its unlikely but if that's the story you want to tell so be it. Obviously it lessens the challenge of the game but there's a reason some people play a video game on "Easy" and some "Hard."

 

Perfect skills in anything are very much an "on paper" concept. Even with the Sophie cheat, putting lower midcarders in your main events will put the lie to those stats. In other words, if you the player don't have your stuff together, it doesn't make one bit of difference what stats your ingame counterpart is gifted with.

 

In my view, cheating is depriving oneself (or someone else, as Eidenhoek pointed out) of the opportunity of seeing the beauty that is TEW. Whether it's watching that green rookie you signed develop fully into a bonafide superstar, or adversely affecting someone else's gameplay. Cheating, to me, has to have a victim. If I break into my house because I left my keys on the coffee table, that's not a crime to me. If I break into YOUR house because I left my keys on your coffee table, that's burglary. Likewise, if I change a worker's stats to right a wrong, that's not cheating. If I change a worker's stats to improve the results I get (with that as the purpose of changing the stats), that to me is cheating (with myself as the victim).

 

YMMV!

[dvdWarrior]

How is that cheating, exactly? That's the part about this question that baffles me. Do the people who believe user characters are "cheats" actually follow wrestling besides watching it on Mondays and Fridays? Wrestling history is FULL of bookers and owners who Jesus push themselves (or their immediate relatives). Do they really think Greg Gagne was a good wrestler?

 

For the record, I (personally) don't believe it's cheating. It's just that a User Character who's a talented wrestler is pretty much a talented wrestler you'd get to use indefinitely at no charge, no matter what promotion you're playing as. I just figured some might see that as cheating a bit is all.

 

[Remianen]

For the record, I (personally) don't believe it's cheating. It's just that a User Character who's a talented wrestler is pretty much a talented wrestler you'd get to use indefinitely at no charge, no matter what promotion you're playing as. I just figured some might see that as cheating a bit is all.

 

 

But that's typically how it works. An owner of a company forgoes taking a salary in order to lessen the financial burden on the company. Besides, s/he knows they're going to get theirs on the back end. If you actually had to pay user characters market value, no one would use them because they'd be too expensive (Jack/Kate Avatar in a local/small promotion would bankrupt them, from day one!).

 

Ah well, different strokes and all that.

[galacticgonzo]

Oh, yeah, obviously I don't think that's cheating. if you let the AI play plenty of owners and bookers will be wrestlers and if you want to make that part of your experience, so be it. Its a little too "Mary Sue" for my interests but there's almost certainly tons of players who dream of being WWE superstars and love booking themselves with the real world stars. Or want to be Paul Heyman or Triple H or a real person instead of just a random fictional user character, or an avatar of yourself. Nothing wrong with that, just how you want to play.

 

 

 

Please to be pointing me at this diary. I'd like to avoid it. The game world is dynamic enough that you'd get many of those workers anyway, though probably not as quickly.

YMMV!

I don't think you have to worry. It wasn't an active diary or even a TEW10 diary. I was just reading random diaries from past games for fun and encountered what was the worst diary I'd ever seen. The irony being that he wasn't signing most of those stars because he wasn't big enough for them to deal with him either, so I assume they must have been unemployed or working in Japan. Instead he spent the whole diary booking insane shows of 30 2 minute matches and creating/signing all kinds of random celebrities to book in his fed. I just couldn't stop reading because it was such a massive trainwreck.

[crayon]

I used to just slap matches and angles together based on what overarching storylines I had in my head, ratings be damned. While I still do that to a degree, I have been taking tips from these forums and trying to get use that not-rated technique to get workers some rub.

 

However, since I know that I'd hardly ever book such angles if I wasn't getting the rub for it, I feel like I have to go the extra mile to justify it to myself why so-and-so jobber happens to be hanging about my main eventer. It'd probably be way easier to just do it with no explanations whatsoever, and close my eyes when running the card... but that's what happens.

[MJStark]

If I'm starting game as a self-created global with tonnes of cash and I really want a few top class workers who are on a written contracts elsewhere to spearhead my company I'll reduce their current contract with the editor to one day, wait a day and negociate with them. I see it as buying out their contract, not as cheating, though I can see how it is blatently cheating

[galacticgonzo]

Yeah, I'd call that cheating. But if you're at peace with it then its no big deal. The only victim is the AI run companies. Really all it is is the equivalent of using cheat codes in a video game. If we were holding up all our games to some kind of similar comparison then you'd be getting an unfair advantage, but since we're not and its just you then its your call.

 

I mean, the next game I start could be John Cena deciding to form a union to get proper worker rights and health insurance, and when Vince McMahon rejects his requests he leads a walk out with Randy Orton, Kofi Kingston, Cody Rhodes, Rey Mysterio Jr, Ted Dibiase Jr, John Morrison, Edge, Christian, and CM Punk. Then they reach out to TNA where AJ Styles makes the same demands and leads a similar walkout with Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels, Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin, Jay Lethal, James Storm, Robert Roode, Desmond Wolfe, and Matt Morgan. Then the 10 of them pool their resources and start a new wrestler owned promotion with all the stuff they want and I have my pick of WWE and TNA. Is it unfair? Maybe, but its a story so where's the harm?

 

Really, the only stuff that I'd really shake my head at would be abusing the in-game editor in the middle of your game. Deciding one day you want John Cena so you go in and reduce his contract. Or deciding you want AJ Styles to be a mega star so you raise his popularity across the globe. I can even understand people throwing money into their banks or screwing with owner goals because they don't want their game to end. Sure, playing with a safety net and no possibility of losing kind of defeats the purpose of a simulation but sometimes you just want to have fun or do your thing.

[sebsplex]

Jack Avatar.

 

Cheating in TEW is a slightly redundant concept in some ways, so if I wanted to set-up a game where the world is massively rigged to my advantage, then I'd have no qualms about doing it, but once the game had started, I would avoid dipping into the in-game editor. That's just because I don't want to be totally in control and the playing experience is rather empty if I simple use the editor to up popularity, end the contracts of rival promotions workers I wish to sign, etc.

 

Sometimes though, I cheat against myself by boosting rival promotions in order to keep them chugging along.

 

At the end of the day though, it's the player's call as to how they wish to play the game. That's one of TEW's many beauties.

[Ben5]

More than once I have decided that i do not like my roster and I want to sign a new talent that I have created. I'll make a new guy and import him into the game. When I do that, I try to make a second character with pretty good stats who I will not sign. That's my way for equaling out the universe.

[TheOmniWarrior]

More than once I have decided that i do not like my roster and I want to sign a new talent that I have created. I'll make a new guy and import him into the game. When I do that, I try to make a second character with pretty good stats who I will not sign. That's my way for equaling out the universe.

 

^^

I like that idea.