What is "cheating" to you?

[djthefunkchris]

Sorry, but I do think it's cheating if your user character has outragious stats, like for example, the best in the game. I don't necessarilly think it's cheating if you have a certain personality or actual wrestler (fictional or otherwise) in mind. I just think giving your user character 100 (or even 90's) in every stat, or outragious overness, that your cheating.

 

This isn't to be confused with using your avator in the card, and making him a ME performer.... pushing him down your fans throats. That IS like the real world. I'm saying just because Lawler had his own promotion, and put himself over as the best guy in the promotion, doesn't necessarily mean he was the best, nor had the best of any skills. He certainly wouldn't give Ric Flair a "rub" for example... the other way around maybe.

 

I don't mind it though, unless your playing a game with me. I don't care if you do it or not, won't make me NOT read your diary or anything like that. Just to me personally, that would be cheating.

[ampulator]

What is "cheating" to you?

 

I posted what "cheating" was to me. I suppose I implicitly answered "nothing" to the other questions.

You didn't "implicitly" answer his questions. You just plain out didn't answer the question. HIs more speicifically asked whether using "Not Rated" was cheaitng. And you either ignored his question, or you didn't read his post.

 

In any case, I do consider "uber" characters not necessarily fair, but it's your game, so, I'm not too concerned about that.

[Derek B]

I've got loads of opinions on what I count as cheating... but ultimately, whatever you want to do to get the most fun out of a game is fine by me. Even with everything I'm about to type, I've probably done them all at some point myself, it just depends on what works for me but if I do cheat I will feel like I've achieved less. Likewise, if someone cheats at all and claims something as an accomplishment I'll think a lot less of it then if they hadn't.

 

First... doing anything that doesn't occur naturally in-game. Basically, using the editor to do anything, including fixing any mistakes you might have made in products or forgetting to negotiate with a worker. It's usually minor stuff but by a strict definition it's cheating.

 

Second, taking advantage of loopholes the AI can't. Things like the abuse of "not rated" angles to get people over or the trick of putting people on commentary to get them over cheaply. To a lesser degree using active wrestlers as road agents (which the AI can't do), deliberately changing angles to tailor to strengths even if it doesn't make sense (worker cutting a promo based on menace instead of entertainment/mic/acting for example). Immediately renegotiaing a contract so you can take advantage of them perhaps not wanting travel. Making generic matches with higher match risk rather than actually having riskier matches (one I've done before too, before stopping that practise where necessary). And the one I'm particularly guilty of at the moment, using monthy events for every night of my touring events instead of weekly as it gets more fans and gains event prestige quickly (even deleting it at tour end and making a new one is still cheating). All the little things that are loopholes we can abuse that the AI can't, those are cheats to a degree.

 

Creating and/or using an uber-avatar may not be cheating, but it is lame. And in diary games it's an instant turn off to see anyone using a character with the surname of Avatar... unless it's a comedy game. When I play large promotions I usually use The Grand Avatar for my games. When I play small promotions I tend to use a semi-talented veteran on the downslide (about 40ish) who could probably be on top for a while, but who shouldn't really be at the top unless I'm suffering badly from roster raids. Creating a worker who can sidle into the main event of a national+ level company (especially in terms of overness) is... well, not cheating, but certainly lame.

 

The worst kind of "cheating" is possible nn multiplayer games, where any double standards on the use of any of the above trickery is cheating. ESPECIALLY the use of the editor to do anything that goes in your favour.

 

And as I said at the top, I've been guilty of most of these at some pioint in the past and even in my current games to a degree. My biggest issue is usually the way people use angles... spamming and abusing non-rated angles is the cheapest trick possible and I consider it lazy gameplay to do so. Even worse than that is turning an angle that should be major (as it continues a storyline) into a minor angle, just to avoid it hurting a show rating. Again, when I see people doing that I absolutely consider it cheating as it's not what the feature is intended for and it's abusing a loophole purely for better numbers.

[The Masked Orange]

I remember someone once posted that if you play SWF, and get rid of BSS right off the bat, that is cheating.

[djthefunkchris]

As I read this thread, I'm going to have to confess I know less about the game then I thought I did. For example, the angles thing, where you can have it not be rated. I thought that meant that nothing would happen period.... the worker wouldn't improve, the angle would just bassically be filler/might as well shown a commercial. Because of that reason, I've never used an angle that wasn't rated, lol. Now that I know it helps, without any of the downfalls, I won't be using it either, unless it would make sense to use it.

 

The only cheat I can think of doing, is bassically giving my promotion extra cash at the start of the game (although I haven't done that in years now). That and if I play as WWE or (as of right now) for example USPW, bassically any promotion that has a womens division, I change the product settings to integrated, and edit my belts to Woman or Man only (so they won't for example say something like "I think the United States Championship would be the title I should be involved with."). I do the integrated thing, so I can see where the women sits on the card position better, not because I desire to cheat. However, I do this everytime. I don't play without active women in the promotion, as sometimes that's the most fun part of the game for me... Trying to get women to outshine the men in my own promotion is a goal.... although the only time it ever happens for me is when playing the default database. I don't think any other database is as fair to women (outside of the obvious mods with women taking over the industry).

[scorpion]

In my view, cheating is depriving oneself (or someone else, as Eidenhoek pointed out) of the opportunity of seeing the beauty that is TEW. Whether it's watching that green rookie you signed develop fully into a bonafide superstar, or adversely affecting someone else's gameplay. Cheating, to me, has to have a victim. If I break into my house because I left my keys on the coffee table, that's not a crime to me. If I break into YOUR house because I left my keys on your coffee table, that's burglary. Likewise, if I change a worker's stats to right a wrong, that's not cheating. If I change a worker's stats to improve the results I get (with that as the purpose of changing the stats), that to me is cheating (with myself as the victim).

 

This.

 

Oh, yeah, obviously I don't think that's cheating. if you let the AI play plenty of owners and bookers will be wrestlers and if you want to make that part of your experience, so be it. Its a little too "Mary Sue" for my interests but there's almost certainly tons of players who dream of being WWE superstars and love booking themselves with the real world stars. Or want to be Paul Heyman or Triple H or a real person instead of just a random fictional user character, or an avatar of yourself. Nothing wrong with that, just how you want to play.

 

I'll admit when starting with a small fed, I always use a re-named version of Jack Avatar. And, I usually put the belt on him and put him at the top of the card because he has the most overness. But maybe I'm odd, because the minute I can get someone to take the belt and put them over I do.

 

To a lesser degree using active wrestlers as road agents (which the AI can't do)

 

This is a tough one for me to call cheating. While the AI can't do it, it also seems they have an advantage money wise getting workers cheaper than the user can. While I've managed to find that Reese Paige comes relatively cheap, using people in multiple, and maybe not even sanctioned roles is one of the ways to survive as a small company. I always throw wrestlers in as color commentators- not to get them over but just to fill the role. Of course if you are doing this at the national level maybe its a different story.

[Derek B]

This is a tough one for me to call cheating. While the AI can't do it, it also seems they have an advantage money wise getting workers cheaper than the user can. While I've managed to find that Reese Paige comes relatively cheap, using people in multiple, and maybe not even sanctioned roles is one of the ways to survive as a small company. I always throw wrestlers in as color commentators- not to get them over but just to fill the role. Of course if you are doing this at the national level maybe its a different story.

 

Don't get me wrong, I regularly use active workers in non-active roles... but it is cheating as the AI can't do that. Humans have so many advantages over the AI that it's virtually impossible to lose as long as you don't do something completely stupid. Big Smack Scott can get over with the AI and be made world champion... something that no human player would seriously do (but many have likely done for funsies anyways) because the computer doesn't have the logic to know it's a terrible idea.

 

Put it this way... in a year the AI might be able to make 1 new guy go up to A level overness. In the same year, my entire main event and likely upper-midcard will be at that level. Why? Because I don't need to follow the AI rules. Which is one of many reasons why all the loopholes are cheating.

 

It might be better and even realistic to use wrestlers in non-wrestling roles, but the AI can't so players shouldn't either. Humans have enough advantages as it is, taking advantage of unintentional loopholes, work arounds and tweaks is cheating... at least a little. And I'm not gonna stop doing it either, but it is.

[Teh_Showtime]

I currently have Hollywood Bret Starr in TCW as a color guy. Not really for the popularity gain, but because he was in development for 8 months and hardly improved (and felt he couldnt any longer). I didnt want to just let him go since he has B+ Mic and Charisma now so he is a color guy maybe I might use him as a manager, but dont think he will be in the ring. Call it the Matt Striker effect (except I thought Striker was pretty decent in ring lol).

[franticloser]

most real world companies use active wrestlers as road agents, even in the WWE before noble retired he was a partial agent. and in smaller companies it's very common. Just look at ECW you had guys filling every role and wrestling. So if it happens in real life it's not cheating

[edenborn]

Very interesting to see where you all draw the line. Thank you for weighing in.

 

Scattered thoughts on some of the topics mentioned:

 

Jack Avatar: I can't play highly skilled User Characters unless I can justify them through storytelling. So no Jack Avatar because that feels somehow "easy" to me, but oddly enough I will play older, more banged up versions of talented 1997 Cornellverse superstars in default Cornellverse games. Giving The Hype a remarkable wrestling comeback, for example.

 

Not Rated angles: Increasingly I'm thinking I can justify using them to build momentum, so long as popularity isn't raised. Three minutes or less. So an nWo promo where Hogan does all the work while the hangers on just stand there can get a good grade and build up everyone's momentum without causing someone like Vincent to skyrocket in popularity just for being there.

 

Flexible categories for an angle: I tend to play fast and loose. For example, an angle where Jeff Jarrett refuses to fight Ahmed Johnson so Sgt. Slaughter punishes him by booking him in a PPV match vs. The Undertaker. How would you set that up? Entertainment or Overness? I might justify Menace for Ahmed if I can picture him angrily threatening Jarrett, trying to lure him into the ring. I might even be able to justify Menace for Taker, despite him being off screen--the presumption after all is that Jarrett is going to get crushed in that PPV match, the angle hinging on Taker's ominous (Menacing) reputation.

 

Using wrestlers in non-wrestling roles: If it's justifiable in some way, sure. Sometimes I'll make a highly entertaining but little known wrestler my color commentator with the premise that he's currently injured, and once he shoots up in popularity sufficiently, the injury heals and he becomes part of the active roster. Doesn't seem like cheating to me, though I'm sure it is to some.

 

Firing Big Smack Scott at the start of a game: Never. He's awesome. Seriously, though, making BSS a useful part of the SWF roster is a fun challenge and I typically take it on unless Owner Goals make it impractical.

[dvdWarrior]

One thing I'll never be too crazy about: giving workers a whole pile of dark matches before the show to build up their experience. Not sure I'd classify that as cheating exactly, but it strikes me as very unrealistic, (if that makes any sense). Plus, it'd really throw the wrestler's win-loss record out of whack.

 

Half the TEW battle for me is getting a wrestler over to myself - that'd really throw a monkey wrench into that.

 

In other news, I must confess that I did wear a pad on my rear end while playing the other night.

 

That is most definitely cheating.

 

:p:o

[franticloser]

again that is a real life use for pre show dark matches, to try out new workers and give them expirence

[dvdWarrior]

again that is a real life use for pre show dark matches, to try out new workers and give them expirence

 

Yeah. One match apiece. I do that. I meant giving one worker a number of dark matches on the same card.

[Comradebot]

I don't do too much "cheating". Like, sometimes I'll extend someone's contract/make sure they won't sign a written deal elsewhere if it's a person who I feel is "critical" to my game. You know, the guys who inspired you to start that game to begin with or are personal favorites. Sorry, 1997 SWF, but you may NOT have Eddie Peak and Big Smack Scott

 

I mean, if it's gonna completely kill my desire to play the game, then what's the point in letting it happen? Usually have a couple of those folks in all my games, the few I absolutely refuse to allow to be stolen. Not typically top stars though. Lord knows half of my main eventers in my APWF from 77 to 80 are now in SWF... Thank god Marcus McKing is loyal and Terry Lambert keeps signing him to written deals personally. And, you know, thank god for Terry Lambert. His popularity alone is enough now-a-days to boost him to top quality matches! (Not to mention he can actually do something resembling wrestling after several years of work)

[LoganRodzen]

Everyone has their own opinion as to what cheating is and most of the opinions in this thread I agree with completely. I believe I'm cheating when I have to think and ask myself, "is this considered cheating?" - because most of the time it is. Have I 'tweaked' things in my TEW game (I don't mean stats, well besides Matty Faith's starting SQ)? Of course I have. But I also have reasoning for the 'tweaks' I make. Things like Alicia Strong having better owner stats so that she can inherit USPW from her father.

 

I've let a bunch of people leave my WCW game due to outrageous contract demands. In the end they always wind up with us again (after stints with TCW, NOTBPW, CGC, or USPW). I won't lie and say that I've never extended contracts via the editor, but at the same time I raised their wage. I've given my development companies chunks of cash to keep them afloat, but I also deducted that from my WCW balance. TEW has many loop holes that you can use to your advantage, but at the end of the day you have to look at YOUR game and see if its still fun for YOU. In most cases (if you cheated heavily) the game becomes stale and unplayable.

[NWO4until01]

Everyone has their own opinion as to what cheating is and most of the opinions in this thread I agree with completely. I believe I'm cheating when I have to think and ask myself, "is this considered cheating?" - because most of the time it is. Have I 'tweaked' things in my TEW game (I don't mean stats, well besides Matty Faith's starting SQ)? Of course I have. But I also have reasoning for the 'tweaks' I make. Things like Alicia Strong having better owner stats so that she can inherit USPW from her father.

 

I've let a bunch of people leave my WCW game due to outrageous contract demands. In the end they always wind up with us again (after stints with TCW, NOTBPW, CGC, or USPW). I won't lie and say that I've never extended contracts via the editor, but at the same time I raised their wage. I've given my development companies chunks of cash to keep them afloat, but I also deducted that from my WCW balance. TEW has many loop holes that you can use to your advantage, but at the end of the day you have to look at YOUR game and see if its still fun for YOU. In most cases (if you cheated heavily) the game becomes stale and unplayable.

 

I agree with this 100%. If your editing things to help you blatantly succeed, like just editing jack bruce to a written contract in FCW, then there is no doubt thats cheating to most people. Editing things in the name of realism or gameplay realism is not cheating, in fact in some cases it might even make the game more challenging.