Diary Awards Discussion Thread

[The Final Countdown]

I figured we could use a thread dedicated to discussing any issues or making any suggestions in regards to diary/dynasty awards, now or in the future. And with this being my first month fully running the DOTM, it seemed like a good time to start it.

 

I've got several things to think about, and I want everyone else's input before I make any final decisions.

 

-Firstly, last month, angel eliminated the rule that allowed people to substitute their Real World nomination for a 2nd C-Verse one (or vice versa.) I understand why it was done: to try and bump up the number of nominations in the real world scene. It's not a bad idea, but I don't think it worked. Almost no one nominated both a Real World and C-Verse dynasty, so neither category really benefited from the change. Many people simply prefer one type over the other, and aren't likely to nominate anything in the other category regardless of the rule. I'm thinking we should go back to the way things used to be.

 

-The other big change last month was the introduction of four new categories: Best Match, Best Storyline, Best Angle and Most Interesting Character. I think the additions added a lot of flavor to the process, and I would like to keep them. But one thing that bothered me was the sheer number of threads that had to be created to handle all of the new categories. With the four new categories plus the three preexisting ones, that's seven threads. That's a lot to manage, or even for voters to track down and vote in. I'm thinking it would be easier for all involved if I moved the voting process onto Survey Monkey (with a direct link to the survey posted on the forum, obviously.) The anonymous nature of Survey Monkey would mean that nominees would now be able to vote for themselves, though they still wouldn't be able to do so during the nomination process. I think the addition of self-voting is tolerable if it means combining all seven awards into one convenient location, but that's just my opinion.

 

-One other issue a lot of people have is that, at the moment, there are two 'big' awards: the Cornell-Verse DOTM and Real World DOTM. But what about dynasties that don't fit into either of those categories? They've been left out in the cold, and I agree that it's time to change that. But how to do so? I've seen it suggested that we take the current Real World category and expand it to include everything aside from the default C-Verse database. I've also seen the suggestion to leave the Real World alone, and combine everything else into a 'Fantasy/Fictional' category. Both of these are valid options with their own pros & cons, and either one is doable. However, if I do indeed move the voting onto Survey Monkey, I believe there's another option: leaving the current Real World and C-Verse categories alone, and adding a third for non-Cverse works that aren't based off of the Real World. This isn't something I would do if we keep the voting here: 7 threads are quite enough, and I'm not about to expand it to 8. But on Survey Monkey, simply adding one more question to a survey would not be a big deal at all.

 

Those are the three big issues at the moment. I'd love to hear your thoughts on them, and/or if you have any other suggestions or comments, let's hear 'em!

[jhd1]

In response to your points...

 

1) I agree with you. Removing the option of swapping your vote between categories was a good idea in theory, but as you said many people only read one type of diary. I very rarely read RW diaries for example, so I'm unlikely to nominate one (I'd effectively be randomly picking). One Cverse writer would suffer as a result, as I'd only be able to nominate one of them.

 

2) I like the categories too, as I think it makes the DOTM more about what happened in the month rather than just randomly picking a diary writer's name from the first page. I have found, however, that surveymonkey can be manipulated and during the final voting phase of Become A Star someone (who I was assured was not a forum member) repeatedly voted over and over again for the same individual. Might be worth keeping in mind.

 

3) I'm against adding a third category as although the jhdVerse seems to have a run of diaries at the moment, I don't know that there would ever be enough of them, even when combined with GDS, 9000, London etc., to make it a real competition. I'm not too bothered either way but I can see the merits of keeping the Cverse on its own - it is the universe for TEW after all.

[MJStark]

I figured we could use a thread dedicated to discussing any issues or making any suggestions in regards to diary/dynasty awards, now or in the future. And with this being my first month fully running the DOTM, it seemed like a good time to start it.

 

I've got several things to think about, and I want everyone else's input before I make any final decisions.

 

-Firstly, last month, angel eliminated the rule that allowed people to substitute their Real World nomination for a 2nd C-Verse one (or vice versa.) I understand why it was done: to try and bump up the number of nominations in the real world scene. It's not a bad idea, but I don't think it worked. Almost no one nominated both a Real World and C-Verse dynasty, so neither category really benefited from the change. Many people simply prefer one type over the other, and aren't likely to nominate anything in the other category regardless of the rule. I'm thinking we should go back to the way things used to be.

 

-The other big change last month was the introduction of four new categories: Best Match, Best Storyline, Best Angle and Most Interesting Character. I think the additions added a lot of flavor to the process, and I would like to keep them. But one thing that bothered me was the sheer number of threads that had to be created to handle all of the new categories. With the four new categories plus the three preexisting ones, that's seven threads. That's a lot to manage, or even for voters to track down and vote in. I'm thinking it would be easier for all involved if I moved the voting process onto Survey Monkey (with a direct link to the survey posted on the forum, obviously.) The anonymous nature of Survey Monkey would mean that nominees would now be able to vote for themselves, though they still wouldn't be able to do so during the nomination process. I think the addition of self-voting is tolerable if it means combining all seven awards into one convenient location, but that's just my opinion.

 

-One other issue a lot of people have is that, at the moment, there are two 'big' awards: the Cornell-Verse DOTM and Real World DOTM. But what about dynasties that don't fit into either of those categories? They've been left out in the cold, and I agree that it's time to change that. But how to do so? I've seen it suggested that we take the current Real World category and expand it to include everything aside from the default C-Verse database. I've also seen the suggestion to leave the Real World alone, and combine everything else into a 'Fantasy/Fictional' category. Both of these are valid options with their own pros & cons, and either one is doable. However, if I do indeed move the voting onto Survey Monkey, I believe there's another option: leaving the current Real World and C-Verse categories alone, and adding a third for non-Cverse works that aren't based off of the Real World. This isn't something I would do if we keep the voting here: 7 threads are quite enough, and I'm not about to expand it to 8. But on Survey Monkey, simply adding one more question to a survey would not be a big deal at all.

 

Those are the three big issues at the moment. I'd love to hear your thoughts on them, and/or if you have any other suggestions or comments, let's hear 'em!

 

All that sounds spot on to me

 

EDIT: Although jhd1 does raise a good point. I did like the idea of a cverse catagory and a mods catagory, maybe if things dry up fantasy-verse wise the Real and other catagories could be combined?

[jhd1]

...maybe if things dry up fantasy-verse wise...

 

Never!

[Rhudipoo]

I actually think keeping things simple is always best. Seven categories a month seems a lot to manage and could be a pain in regards to keeping records and so on. Maybe keeping C-Verse DOTM, and combining a Real World and Fantasy/Fiction DOTM would be good? Combining Real World and Fantasy/Fiction into one category might bump up nominations for RW diaries.

 

Rookie diary should of course stay, but I’ve always believed that once you win that award you should never be allowed to win it again, even if you create a new diary. Maybe I’m wrong, but haven’t people on this forum won that award more than once?

 

Lastly, as I said before, the addition of ‘Most Interesting Character’, ‘Match of the Month’ and so on is a great idea because writers get noticed, however it seems like a lot of work for the organisers like yourself to deal with. Maybe you could create a ‘Special Mention Award’ given out monthly to the person who deserves it most. During the nomination phase you could state why you are nominating the person, maybe it’s because of a certain character in their diary, the fact that they wrote a great full write up of an event, or maybe they have just been consistent with their writing as of late. A special mention award would combine everything into one category and would probably create a lot of buzz because so many people would probably get nominated for it.

 

Just a thought….

 

So the categories would look something like this, with the top two being the two most prestigious:

-C-Verse DOTM

-Real World and Fantasy/Fiction DOTM

-Special Mention Award of the Month

-Rookie DOTM

[jhd1]

Rookie diary should of course stay, but I’ve always believed that once you win that award you should never be allowed to win it again, even if you create a new diary. Maybe I’m wrong, but haven’t people on this forum won that award more than once?

 

A lot of people have. The only criteria (outside of the show rule) is that Hall of Famers can't be nominated. It'd be a little restrictive to have every rookie listed somewhere for people to nominate. How about, no one who has won a full DOTM can be nominated for rookie? That way you're not 'punishing' diary writers who, for whatever reason, would struggle to win their respective full DOTM categories.

 

I take what I said back about 2). While I stand by the principles, I think Rhudipoo's idea of a Special Mention Award is a much neater way of handling things, and is really a catch all for those categories (rather than the match/gimmick match discussion or a debate about what an angle or storyline is etc.). Yep, go with Rhudipoo's suggestions.

[Stennick]

I agree with what TFC said as far going back to being able to substitute a DOTM vote. Not letting me vote for two C Verse writers is just taking away from the community so I agree lets go back to being able to substitute.

 

I don't like Survey Monkey because as jhd1 said it can be pretty easily manipulated and spammed and I really like the "no voting for yourself" rule.

 

That leads to the Rhudipoo's idea of a special mention award. I like that better than having to track down every single nomination in every single category. I think a special mention idea is a lot better way of achieving the same thing.

[ampulator]

1. I think I was the few that openly complained. I prefer vote-swapping anyway. If a person wants to nominate two RW diaries, be my guest.

2. Here's the thing. Who's doing all the work? You are, FC. If you want to keep them, you should be the one to decide, if are doing all the work. I'm neither for or against the new categories, but I don't want someone else burnt out over the process again.

3. I'm warming up to the "Fictional" and "Nonfictional" idea. Rather than being narrowly Cverse vs. RWverse, it could Fictional vs. Nonfictional. Of course, the obvious complaint would be that it will blow up the Fictional Category even further, while not benefitting Nonfictional side that much. And to that argument, there's nothing you can do about that-as long as Fictional Diaries are more popular as a whole, they will always benefit from these kind of open arrangements more. It's the nature of the beast. It's not the Fictional's side's fault that Nonfictional diaries aren't as popular as they once were. Why treat them equally when they aren't really equal?'

 

A lot of people have. The only criteria (outside of the show rule) is that Hall of Famers can't be nominated. It'd be a little restrictive to have every rookie listed somewhere for people to nominate. How about, no one who has won a full DOTM can be nominated for rookie? That way you're not 'punishing' diary writers who, for whatever reason, would struggle to win their respective full DOTM categories.

 

I take what I said back about 2). While I stand by the principles, I think Rhudipoo's idea of a Special Mention Award is a much neater way of handling things, and is really a catch all for those categories (rather than the match/gimmick match discussion or a debate about what an angle or storyline is etc.). Yep, go with Rhudipoo's suggestions.

 

I second these ideas. I think it's fair that anyone that won the DOTM shouldn't be allowed to win Rookie again. Or at least, if they won the DOTM that year, they must wait until next year to be permitted to do Rookie again. The special mention gimmick is a great idea to condense these categories.

[BHK1978]

I second these ideas. I think it's fair that anyone that won the DOTM shouldn't be allowed to win Rookie again. Or at least, if they won the DOTM that year, they must wait until next year to be permitted to do Rookie again. The special mention gimmick is a great idea to condense these categories.

 

I agree with this, simply because it is unfair for newer writers to have to compete with writers that are already established and have an audience that will vote for them. To me that is a cheap way to get a victory because a lot of the times people will not even check out new writers but they will vote for an established writer if they see them nominated.

 

As far as the new categories that were started up last month, I have no problem with them at all. I am not sure if they will have staying power or not but if TFC wants to keep them, then I say keep them.

 

Like I said before, I am all in favor of what Zergon said in regards to non C-Verse diaries. I think they should be added in with the Real World Diaries, that way the Real World gets more competition. That way you have C-Verse diaries and anything that is not a C-Verse diary in the other category.

[Tiberious]

I don't know if I should really be a part of this discussion since I'm still new to these forums, but I would agree that perhaps some of the new sections should be consolidated.

 

I would say best Angle and best Storyline are similiar enough things that they would probably be better off consolidated into one catagory. Best Match seems like a fine catagory to me, but it is more work to the person running things so I'd understand if you wanted to get rid of it.

 

I believe that I won the "Most Interesting Character" category (At least if the voting is ove I did), and while I'm certainly happy to have won the award I don't think I particularly deserve it. The reason I saw that is that I don't really think the character I got nominated for is particularly more interesting than others in my diary. I would guess that the people who voted for me did so because they liked my diary/writing in general rather then because that character in particular was good.

 

I do like the idea of a special mention award since even with lots of categories there is always going to be something that deserves recognition that doesn't fall under one award catagory.

[BHK1978]

I don't know if I should really be a part of this discussion since I'm still new to these forums.

 

Not sure why you would say this, your opinion is just as valid as anyone else. Just because you are new to the board does not mean that your voice should not have the right to be heard.

[olympia]

agree some of the new awards could be consolidated

best match of the month

best storyline/angle

best/most interesting character/tag team

 

is it possible to put multiple polls into one thread? or allow to vote twice in a poll (and split between the best match/angle and best character/wrestler/tag team which would be divided)?

 

by far, the C-verse is most popular, but the niche that prefers the real world is partly because it is more real (guys they have actually seen on tv), so not a fan of mixing in other fantasy/fictional in with RW. Are there enough non C-verse / RW diaries going or are there just a couple writers that specialize on those?

 

as far as number of nominees - one or two per person doesn't matter much to me. I tend the nominate the one I think excelled that particular month and the one I'd vote for. Can't split my vote later so I only nominate 1 (can always ask someone else to nominate my 2nd choice if I were torn, or just save the other til next month). Just not that big a deal to me.

3-5 nominees tend to get some spirited voting and usually yeild better results than when we have lots more than that. jmo

[ampulator]

The thing is, I hate to say this, but RW Diaries aren't just that popular these days. It's just the way it is. I can go into why it isn't, but that's not exactly relevant to the question. But point is, no matter what gimmicks we do to limit Fictional Cverse nominations to artificially put it on the same level as RWverse, it doesn't automatically make people want to read RWverse diaries.

[smwilliams]

From an actual storytelling standpoint, I think there's two legitimate categories that warrant discussion...

 

Best Angle/Storyline

Best Character

 

This is largely because in the real world, the success of any promotion is based on these two things. A great character (think Hogan in the 80s) or storyline (think nWo) can result in big business for a promotion. Why not reward the same thing here?

 

So few diarists really do a blow-by-blow match recap, that it's hard to gauge what would be a good match and what wouldn't.

 

And I'm of the opinion that you should separate Real World/non-RW diaries into two categories, but I can see the point behind keeping the CVerse on its own.

[Phantom Stranger]

I want to weigh in on the rookie DOTM thing, and bear in mind, please, that I'm ineligible anyway - Hall of Famers can't win Rookie.

 

I say let other folks be eligible anyway. It guarantees a deep enough field and I'd rather the award go to the guy who deserves it, not the guy who's the best of a collection of two minor diaries.

[mistaken]

If we go over 3 categories, I suggest the poll thread go in the 07 or 08 threads, and a single post with poll html code go in the 10 thread. (this will put all the polls in one spot, and only one post to bump)

 

if we go this way PM me and I will provide instructions on the easiest way to get this done.

[olympia]

If we go over 3 categories, I suggest the poll thread go in the 07 or 08 threads, and a single post with poll html code go in the 10 thread. (this will put all the polls in one spot, and only one post to bump)

 

if we go this way PM me and I will provide instructions on the easiest way to get this done.

 

brilliant suggestion!!

[Stennick]

I want to weigh in on the rookie DOTM thing, and bear in mind, please, that I'm ineligible anyway - Hall of Famers can't win Rookie.

 

I say let other folks be eligible anyway. It guarantees a deep enough field and I'd rather the award go to the guy who deserves it, not the guy who's the best of a collection of two minor diaries.

 

I agree with you PS in the fact that the best man should win. However I think the reason we started the rookie diary in the first place was a way for new guys who weren't quite established yet to gain some momentum and get their diary recognized before doing battle with the "big boys".

 

Its a way for the new guys to get their diary noticed, get it recognized and build a bit more of a "brand". It was discussed that somebody might have a really good diary going but when its up against James Casey, Phantam Stranger and Eisen Verse for DOTM and your GenericScreenname1 you just wouldn't get a fair shake nobody how much everyone wants to believe differently.

 

So by saying once you've won a DOTM you can no longer compete for the rookie of the month I like that. It means that we're getting fresh names in there. Rookie of the month is for those diaries to get noticed. I agree the best diary should win but the purpose of the rookie diary I always felt was supposed to be for "rookie" diary writers. I'm in support of the idea that once you have won a DOTM you become inelibable for atleast that year for a ROTM award.

[ampulator]

I want to make it clear, anyone that hasn't won a DOTM should always be eligble for Rookie, if you ask me.

 

But on a related note, what do you guys think about separating the Rookie category into CVerse/Fictional Rookie and RWverse/NonFictional Rookie? It seems a RWverse diary loses against Cverse diary most of the time, and the sheer amount of CVerse diaries will bury the amount of RWverse. It's just an idea I'm throwing out.

[The Final Countdown]

Some really interesting feedback so far.

 

I had no idea about those issues with SurveyMonkey. See, this is exactly why I created this thread--so you guys could make sure I didn't do anything stupid!

 

I'm not opposed to the idea of previous DOTM winners being ineligible for Rookie nominations, but it would be just about impossible to actively enforce. There's no way anyone would scroll through a massive list of every single DOTM winner to see who's ineligible (and I'm not about to compile such a list in the first place )

 

At the moment, I am leaning towards combining Real World and all other non-CVerse diaries into a 'Mod' category, and letting the CVerse remain all on its own. There's already a large disparity between the number of RW and CVerse diaries nominated, and I can only imagine how large that gap would become if we added all the other mods in with the CVerse. If we combine them with the RW, though, the two categories might be more or less even most months. There's still plenty of time to change my mind, though.

 

 

Lastly, as I said before, the addition of ‘Most Interesting Character’, ‘Match of the Month’ and so on is a great idea because writers get noticed, however it seems like a lot of work for the organisers like yourself to deal with. Maybe you could create a ‘Special Mention Award’ given out monthly to the person who deserves it most. During the nomination phase you could state why you are nominating the person, maybe it’s because of a certain character in their diary, the fact that they wrote a great full write up of an event, or maybe they have just been consistent with their writing as of late. A special mention award would combine everything into one category and would probably create a lot of buzz because so many people would probably get nominated for it.

 

Just a thought….

 

So the categories would look something like this, with the top two being the two most prestigious:

-C-Verse DOTM

-Real World and Fantasy/Fiction DOTM

-Special Mention Award of the Month

-Rookie DOTM

This is an interesting idea, and one that several other people have liked as well. It would certainly mean less work for me, which is a definite plus in my book.

 

But I feel like in order for it to work, it would have to go beyond merely nominating the person--that's what the other three categories are there for, after all. So, modifying your idea a bit: maybe instead of nominating someone for the award and explaining why, you would actually be nominating a particular aspect of someone's work that really jumped out at you that month? For instance: I'm nominating the Death of Hulk Hogan storyline in Rhudipoo's WWE Bizarro (genius, by the way.) Or, I'm nominating the excellent match between Roddy Piper and Tito Santana in Oldschool's WWWF History Re-written. Am I making sense, or does that sound too convoluted?

 

If we go over 3 categories, I suggest the poll thread go in the 07 or 08 threads, and a single post with poll html code go in the 10 thread. (this will put all the polls in one spot, and only one post to bump)

 

if we go this way PM me and I will provide instructions on the easiest way to get this done.

I had no idea something like that was possible. Sounds dead useful, though! Assuming we still wind up with > 3 categories (which is pretty much a given I think), I'll definitely be asking you to explain that little trick to me.

[ampulator]

Considering the amount of categories we were doing, one-year bans of DOTM winners from Rookie seems like a much easier thing to do, when compared to that. But in any case, if you decide not to do it, not that I'm going to be too mad about it.

[BHK1978]

I want to weigh in on the rookie DOTM thing, and bear in mind, please, that I'm ineligible anyway - Hall of Famers can't win Rookie.

 

I say let other folks be eligible anyway. It guarantees a deep enough field and I'd rather the award go to the guy who deserves it, not the guy who's the best of a collection of two minor diaries.

 

First off the diary who deserves it does not always win the Rookie of the Month. It could be a number of factors like they just joined the board and they do not have an audience yet or as I have said before they are going against someone who has already built up their audience. Is it fair for the new writer to take on someone who is already established on the board?

 

That was why I did not want my diary nominated for Rookie DOTM. I mean I probably would not have won, but I a pretty sure at least one possibly more would have went to me, which meant that an actual Rookie writer would have been cheated out of those votes. In a close contest those potential votes that went to me could have been the deciding factor in who won.

 

I guess this is all a moot point because TFC said he was not in favor of tracking them. Still it does stink to see someone who is known beat someone who is unknown just because they have more supporters.

[ampulator]

The biggest issue is, anyone that wins the DOTM is sure to be a favorite in winning the Rookie against genuine Rookies. That's my problem with it. It defeats the purpose of having Rookie diary in first place, which is to give less established diarists a chance to get more established.

[angeldelayette]

The biggest issue is, anyone that wins the DOTM is sure to be a favorite in winning the Rookie against genuine Rookies. That's my problem with it. It defeats the purpose of having Rookie diary in first place, which is to give less established diarists a chance to get more established.

 

Win or lose, are those diaries not getting more established simply by being nominated for rookie dotm? I am quite sure that certain diaries get more views after being nominated than they might have otherwise.

 

Though my opinion is neither here nor there at the moment.

[ampulator]

In my opinion, not really. I don't remember the nominated-anyone one can nominate a rookie. It's winning, that's the hard part.