Wrestling As A Sport

[Genadi]

It actually has quite a bit of Pure.

 

Again i'll type how i please. It's up to you to decipher.

 

Irish I agree with you, esp about Davey I cringe when I watch him.

 

Please try to communicate a bit nicer though. I know it can get frustrating trying to get your point across but you do yourself a disservice when talking like that to people.

[Genadi]

Davey Richards is still young. In the ring, I do love his intense style. Now if he could develop an interesting persona, I could see a bright future for him.

 

Davey Richards is everything wrong with the American Indy scene.

 

 

 

Edit - Looking through the thread it seems a few people are confused about Product settings and their meanings.

 

 

Traditional: The element of traditional “good guy vs. bad guy” wrestling, where the emphasis is on telling a story via ring work, characters, and storylines.

 

Mainstream: The element of entertaining the masses with family-friendly easy-to-understand characters and skits, plus all the associated glitz and glamour.

 

Comedy: The element of having comedic parts to the wrestling and angles.

 

Cult: The element of appealing to the minority, being more of an “outlaw” \ rebellious entity than mainstream, through darker and edgier material.

 

Risque: The element of having more lewd and sexually-charged entertainment content, of going more low-brow.

 

Modern: The element of having faster-moving, edgy, flashy matches and angles for the benefit of the modern short attention span.

 

Realism: The element of keeping the action very realistic within the boundaries of “wrestling logic”, without straying to MMA content.

 

Hyper Realism: The element of incorporating MMA content into matches.

 

Hardcore: The element of bringing more bloody, brutal content into the promotion than is the norm; to appeal to the more bloodthirsty minority.

 

Lucha Libre: The element of bringing the more kayfabe-oriented world of lucha libre into the promotion, including its faster-paced matches.

 

Pure: The element of old-school mat wrestling and hold \ counter hold type action.

 

Daredevil : The element of including extremely high risk moves and stunts into the in-ring action and angles in order to provide highlight-reel action.

 

Hope that clears things up.

[franticloser]

Through reading those I would put ROH like this

 

Key features

Modern, realism

Heavy

Daredevil

Medium

Traditional, pure, lucha

[Blackman]

It actually has quite a bit of Pure.

 

Again i'll type how i please. It's up to you to decipher.

 

It does. For me 'pure' was always all about the wrestling and not the in-between shenanigans. But then again, even pure wrestling promotions have the bits of comedy during the match. Some ROH matches earlier in its days were all wrestling and no play. I would see that as pure. Realism is a different matter. Like Belton says, it's about what's rational to do in a contest. Climbing the tb just makes little sense given the danger it involves. You're better off going for a submission if he's on the ground.

 

You have traditional vs modern and mainstream vs pure. I always saw it as two continua. I'm wrong, obviously, but that made more sense to me. By the definitions, you could have TRADITIONAL & MODERN set as key, while both terms contradict each other. It just smells fishy.

 

As for the second sentence: eventually people will stop caring and no one will care to decipher your posts, though that's only in extreme cases. In your case it's still fine, but I hate to see it happen as it draws spelling n*zi's to the tread.

[Stennick]

What direction did i want it to go? lol

 

I said what i said and i'm right so debate all you want.

 

I'll let you in on a little secret you're not right and if you're like this in real life the whole "I'm right, you're wrong, end of discussion I refuse to think about it further" then I'm sure you live a very....interesting life. Take buddy and keep on keep'n on with the whole being right thing it seems to work for ya.

[mharmon99]

Solid in-ring workers =/= pure, and that seems to be the mistake most folks are making. The Modern product more than covers ROH's focus on in-ring talent.

 

But all of those guys, while many being talented technicians, even in ROH broke out with flashy, unrealistic moves. Hell, CM Punk's finisher is one of the silliest, most unrealistic looking moves in all of professional wrestling.

 

Not to mention, those are individual workers. Is Daniel Bryan a brilliant mat worker? Would his style fit a pure product perfectly? Sure. However, that does NOTHING to negate that ROH matches are filled with head-dropping slams, flashy top rope dives, and more no-selling than tickets to a Michael Bolton concert.

 

 

Read the in-game product descriptions. "Pure" sounds very, very little like ROH. There's elements of it, but you're kidding yourself if you think its the defining feature in ROH's product.

 

Thats cause they changed, but all the best mat wrestlers now have work for ROH. The fact is that even though they are small, they are like the MAW of the real world. Preparing talents to for the bigger companies. They may not be completely Pure, but the best thing in any product is to have workers who are excellent perfomers. ROH has excellent perfomers.

[mharmon99]

I really can't believe this is still going, so I'm going to settle this once and for all as someone who has actually worked in companies that have key pure and key modern.

 

In the pure company I worked for we were heavily discouraged from doing anything that wouldn't make sense if the sport was real. These things included assisted lifts, (snap suplexes were ok, shoot throws were fine, but stalling verticals werent) climbing the turnbuckles, running the ropes for any reason, and you picked one body part and worked it for the entire match. In essence, it was shoot grappling with no strikes and a fixed result. The closest thing I could compare it to is amateur wrestling, but kept exciting by the fact that it wasn't a cluster****y mess of limbs, and instead a technical wrestling showcase. Yes, the Danielsons and the Punks would fit in there very well, but you wouldn't see things like Bryan doing dives to the outside, kicks, or any of Punk's finishers.

 

The modern company was exactly like RoH. Yes it was all wrestling all the time, and the matches were very intensely physical, it was purely wrestling with very little in the way of storyline. However, that doesn't mean it's pure in TEW terms. The kicks, dives, rope-sprinting and head drops make both my fed and RoH modern companies with a 100% match ratio. The modern crowd favors fast paced matches - look at one of RoH's best matches in Kobashi vs Joe. The entire match consisted of dives, suplexes and hundreds of strikes from both parties. Yes, there was an immense amount of work rate, and it was very very stiff to the point where I showed it to some non wrestling fan friends and they commented on the intensity and actually watched the whole thing. Yes, it is very grounded in sport, but it's not pure in TEW terms.

 

If you showed a 190x-192x match between Gotch and Hackenschimidt at an RoH event today I can guarantee The crowd would chant boring because they are a modern crowd. In a pure fed, you can work a tie up or chin lock for 10 minutes. (Obviously you can move around the ring a bit, but still have the hold locked on) Think about how long that is. It wouldn't fly in RoH.

 

Thanks for that info. Thank you also for saying that ROH is a sports company, as in "Wrestling As A Sport". Which is what the thread is about. So to move away from the ROH argument, hope everybody has success using the wrestling as a sport Product.

[Comradebot]

Thanks for that info. Thank you also for saying that ROH is a sports company, as in "Wrestling As A Sport". Which is what the thread is about. So to move away from the ROH argument, hope everybody has success using the wrestling as a sport Product.

 

I second this motion (and Modern as a Key Feature still means ROH would be seen as "Wrestling as a Sport", just not as realistic as a Hyper Realism or Pure key feature). There, done talking about ROH in this thread.

 

 

While I spend most of my booking with over the top sport entertainment (your EWAs, RAWs, and USPWs), I sometimes enjoy dabbling with GCG, which is very little like my usual stomping grounds, along with QUEST in the 70s C-Verse (which is very much like GCG). I treated them as a "sport", and kept a spreadsheet on hand for those games where I'd track the win-loss records of my competitors and keep an active, up to date standings recorded as well.

 

It can be fun to base "stories" completely on the in-ring competition, and it makes things like cheating (which I use to a Russo like level most of the time) all the more dramatic when they go down. The downside is, the grades can sometimes take a hit from fans that turn against such shenanigans. But its not like real sports are devoid of cheating either, and I like the idea the fans may legitimately hate someone for moving up to the contender's spot in the rankings because he struck his opponent with a cheap shot.

[Eidenhoek]

Who's the guy that posted those two "pure" matches?

 

Turns out I'm apparently a huge fan of od-school pure technical...stuff. It's...it's weirdly entertaining for me.

[Nedew]

Who's the guy that posted those two "pure" matches?

 

Turns out I'm apparently a huge fan of od-school pure technical...stuff. It's...it's weirdly entertaining for me.

 

Gagne/Robinson and Logan/Roach? Yeah, chain wrestling is probably my favourite thing about this art. It's great to watch and fun to do as well.