The NJPW Discussion Thread

[Derek B]

The G1 has definitely been great so far. Looking forward to the Block B final night and the potential insanity of the finals. Even when you think you know the results ahead of time, the G1 has a way to make you not only doubt yourself but to take you on an awesome ride on the journey too.

[Sco xY2Jx]

The G1 has definitely been great so far. Looking forward to the Block B final night and the potential insanity of the finals. Even when you think you know the results ahead of time, the G1 has a way to make you not only doubt yourself but to take you on an awesome ride on the journey too.

 

Well this is the first I've watched in real-time along with the tournament. Nothing else like it in wrestling. At least not with the level of consistency in match quality.

 

Enjoy the last 2 nights, troops.

[Derek B]

Well this is the first I've watched in real-time along with the tournament. Nothing else like it in wrestling. At least not with the level of consistency in match quality.

 

Enjoy the last 2 nights, troops.

 

This is my third time watching the G1 in real time.... the other tournaments are generally good but nothing compares to the G1, it's been amazing every time and as a wrestling fan I find it to be must see viewing. I was hyped for so many potential match ups going in and I feel like there have been very few matches that haven't been at least good, with most being great.

 

It's also the time of year that I most appreciate Toru Yano. He may be mostly a comedy wrestler, but with so many more serious matches he's so great to have in the mix.

[TheGhost]

So looks like I threw all of my eggs in the right basket. Looking forward to Wrestle Kingdom.

[Jaysin]

KENTA joined Bullet Club

[Sco xY2Jx]

Jay White is such a shitebag heel. Maybe the best heel in Wrestling today. I wasn't really sold on him but Block B finals night and finals night, sealed it.

 

That was a hell of a month of wrestling. Multiple MOTY candidates, Takagi and Ospreay now very credible heavyweight singles threats, a passing torch moment between Tanahashi and Ibushi, KENTA joining BC and Shibata getting physical in the ring plus a tremendous final with the ultimate babyface beating the A-hole heel.

 

What a month!

 

Wrestling really is better than the things you like!

[milamber]

[Jaysin]

Shibata getting involved physically blows my mind. It'd be awesome if he can make a comeback.

[Derek B]

From what I hear Shibata is in no way cleared to wrestle... but good lord, the crowd reaction for him was amazing and I had chills when he started getting physical. I only started watching NJPW around the time of his enforced retirement and I fell in love with his style... there is no one who can compare to him and KENTA turning heel on him was amazing... I was thinking that they had kinda buried KENTA with the second half of his G1 but he's definitely been given a shot in the arm with that.

 

The G1 final itself between Jay White and Kota Ibushi was great. Jay White has been growing on me for his body of work... he's obviously not as good as the best in the company yet, but he has been showing a lot of skill and he's an absoulte slimeball heel, which is great to see in this day and age.

 

And let's not forget that Minoru Suzuki pinned Okada in a tag match too and has issued a challenge for the title. And Shingo Takagi has officially declared for the heavyweight division. And the competitors for the Super J Cup have been announced and has some very interesting matches in there too.

 

Good times.

[Jaysin]

Shibata was quickly becoming one of my all time favorites when he got injured. I'd love to see him come back, but only if it's safe for him to.

[Sco xY2Jx]

I only started watching NJPW a few months prior to Alpha vs Omega so missed prime Shibata but from everything I've heard, the guy was next-level awesome.

 

So from going back and watching stuff on NJPW World, the guy was awesome. The KENTA turn and returning of Shibata made that one of the best angles I've seen in a long time and to get that level of noise and reaction out of that crowd in Japan is incredible. An outstanding angle.

 

Plus with the card revealed for Royal Quest, such an exciting time to be an NJPW fan. Who needs The Elite?!

 

Oh, btw Derek-B, off-topic; I'm still eagerly awaiting your update in the BHOTWG thread for the past few years. I'm trying to work on my storytelling in my PGHW save to bring it to a level of that which you achieved telling the story so far of BHOTWG. I know you're busy but... c.mon!

[Derek B]

I only started watching NJPW a few months prior to Alpha vs Omega so missed prime Shibata but from everything I've heard, the guy was next-level awesome.

 

So from going back and watching stuff on NJPW World, the guy was awesome. The KENTA turn and returning of Shibata made that one of the best angles I've seen in a long time and to get that level of noise and reaction out of that crowd in Japan is incredible. An outstanding angle.

 

Plus with the card revealed for Royal Quest, such an exciting time to be an NJPW fan. Who needs The Elite?!

 

Oh, btw Derek-B, off-topic; I'm still eagerly awaiting your update in the BHOTWG thread for the past few years. I'm trying to work on my storytelling in my PGHW save to bring it to a level of that which you achieved telling the story so far of BHOTWG. I know you're busy but... c.mon!

 

I love the Japanese crowds with NJPW. They're always paying attention, they seem knowledgable of the product and of things outside the company too so that everything always matters to them. And when KENTA happened there... wowsa, they exploded and made me super happy to be a wrestling fan. I would love Shibata to make a return if he is healthy enough... but I don't want to see him come back too soon, no matter how amazing he is.

 

As for the BHOTWG... it's kinda on pause due to TEW2020 development and real life stuff. I wanted to get to Night Of The Burning Hammer but I don't think I can stick with it that long now. I may have made a liar of myself with another update. Sorry.

[Sco xY2Jx]

I love the Japanese crowds with NJPW. They're always paying attention, they seem knowledgable of the product and of things outside the company too so that everything always matters to them. And when KENTA happened there... wowsa, they exploded and made me super happy to be a wrestling fan. I would love Shibata to make a return if he is healthy enough... but I don't want to see him come back too soon, no matter how amazing he is.

 

As for the BHOTWG... it's kinda on pause due to TEW2020 development and real life stuff. I wanted to get to Night Of The Burning Hammer but I don't think I can stick with it that long now. I may have made a liar of myself with another update. Sorry.

 

Lol. No worries, dude. I'm just messing. I seriously enjoyed the updates, though, Roll on TEW 2020.

 

I feel similarly with Shibata. Based on the seriousness of his injury, if he never returns properly, the physicality he got involved in with KENTA may have been enough. It was truly phenomenal. But I'm with you on the Japanese crowds. They seem to genuinely love the product, the company and what it puts out and it shows when you watch the shows and listen to them. NJPW does its storytelling in the ring and the crowd never misses a beat. I'm now thrilled to be one of them!

[Jaysin]

<p>Night 1 of Wrestle Kingdom has:</p><p>

Jay White© vs Naito for the IC</p><p>

Okada© vs Ibushi for the heavy</p><p> </p><p>

Winners face each other on Night 2 with both belts on the line.</p><p> </p><p>

I’m hoping Naito walks out covered in gold.</p>

[milamber]

 

Night 1:

 

Jyushin Thunder Liger, Tatsumi Fujinami, The Great Sasuke and Tiger Mask (with El Samurai) vs. Naoki Sano, Shinjiro Otani, Tatsuhito Takaiwa and Ryusuke Taguchi (with Kuniaki Kobayashi)

Will Ospreay © vs. Hiromu Takahashi (IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship)

Jay White © vs. Tetsuya Naito (IWGP Intercontinental Championship)

Kazuchika Okada © vs. Kota Ibushi (IWGP Heavyweight Championship)

 

 

Night 2:

 

Jyushin Thunder Liger vs. TBA (Jyushin Thunder Liger's retirement match)

Bullet Club (Taiji Ishimori and El Phantasmo) © vs. Roppongi 3K (Sho and Yoh) (IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Championship)

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Chris Jericho

TBD (loser of Okada vs. Ibushi) vs. TBD (loser of White vs. Naito)

TBD IWGP Heavyweight Champion vs. TBD IWGP Intercontinental Champion (for both the IWGP Heavyweight and IWGP Intercontinental Championships)

 

 

Jon Moxely also challenged Lance Archer to a title match for his IWGP United States Championship

[fullMETAL]

I posted this elsewhere, but I can post it here too.

My thoughts on the double-title-double-night thing:

 

The World Championship narrative over those 2 days could go one of 3 ways:

1) they continue to book Okada in his "now that I've been redeemed from losing the belt, I'm gonna hold it forever again" state

2) the "Ibushi finally gets his due" story

3) the "Naito finally gets his due" story

(there's no way Jay White makes it out of the event holding the belts, because this whole storyline isn't about him)

 

Personally, I think the Naito angle is the most compelling of the three, but I also think they might go with the Ibushi result because while Japan *idealizes* the hard work and "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" climbing to the top type, they *value* the "Naturally Skilled Genius" type a heck of a lot more.

 

Ibushi beating Okada on Night 1 and losing to Naito on Night 2 is a good way to get the belt on both of them and say "look, we finally gave Ibushi the Heavyweight belt!", but Okada successfully defending against Ibushi only to lose to Naito the next night in the big rematch from last year is the more natural and textured story to be told.

Okada having lost to Omega in their 3rd and 4th match was a great litmus test to see whether the structure of NJPW's "Okada is our god-a" philosophy could survive him losing the belt after a long reign.

It showed that it was possible and even provided a fantastic "fallen hero" narrative for Okada, so this time, losing the belt to Naito wouldn't take any sheen off of the Rainmaker, AND him having experienced such a big title loss last year to Omega has (in an ideal scenario) prepared him to understand and accept another big title loss much better.

 

That's not to say Naito's 2nd reign will be as well-protected as any of Okada's, but if we can at least get a longer reign than Jay White's with Naito actually main-eventing shows AS the IWGP Heavyweight Champion this time, I would call it a success.

Also, that being said, I wouldn't mind if Ibushi was the one to end Naito's reign, either at Wrestle Kingdom in 2021 after winning the G1 again, or even a couple months before at King Of Pro-Wrestling or Power Struggle in late 2020.

 

Addendum: If Okada retaining on both nights signals an actual heel turn informed by "now that I'm champion again, I'll do whatever it takes to STAY champion, including cheating" (in the vein of Neville and Asuka's they-were-about-to-turn-heel reigns in NXT), I think that would be the only long-term scenario where it'd be perfectly fine (disappointment in Ibushi and Naito not winning The Big One notwithstanding) for Okada to come out on top here.

 

(Additionally, I'd love it if Liger's retirement match were against Jericho)

[nerodragomir1]

<p>Okada winning wouldn't shock me. I think Naito is the one that needs it the most. Him managing to do it would help his character. I could see him failing to Ibushi. Ibushi seems like the one that will win it all. I'm not a massive Ibushi fan. I think he's great but I'm not as much of a fan as I'm sure others are of him. It kinda feels like at this point that NJPW will never give Naito the run that I'm sure the fans feel he should have with the Heavyweight title. Although, I do kinda feel like New Japan brass view Naito as someone that doesn't necessarily need the main championship. He is so popular without that title, why waste the title on him when others could need it more so. </p><p> </p><p>

I'm going to say Kota Ibushi will win it all. </p><p> </p><p>

Again, not that I'm hopeful of him winning. I just see him getting the big win.</p><p> </p><p>

If it was based off of my own hope for someone to win. I would want Okada to get the win.</p><p> </p><p>

The one that SHOULD win is Naito, because he has the most to lose. He was the one pushing for this. He was the one that demanded this to happen. Him failing to win would make him look the most foolish.</p>

[Jaysin]

I’d love for Naito to win. He deserves it.

[milamber]

I watch a lot of NJPW but based on what I know of Gedo's booking I think Ibushi wins. Naito wins the G1 next year and takes the Heavyweight title off Ibushi.

[milamber]

Moxley vs Archer - *** 3/4

Takahashi vs Ospreay - **** 1/2

Naito vs White - **** 3/4

Ibushi vs Okada - *****

 

Great start to WK14. Sucks Ibushi lost, though. Hopefully Naito beats Okada (which needs to happen)... but then for Ibushi to chase (which also should happen) he'll have to win the G1 Climax 2 years in a row which is rare. That's assuming Ibushi doesn't play 2nd fiddle to Okada again this time next year. Didn't bother with the undercard matches.

[milamber]

<p>SANADA vs ZSJ - ****</p><p>

Juice vs Moxley - *** 1/2</p><p>

White vs Ibushi - **** 1/2</p><p>

Jericho vs Tanahashi - **** 1/4</p><p>

Naito vs Okada - *****</p><p> </p><p>

In hindsight Ibushi being sacrificed was worth it to have Naito get the big win over Okada. Mox vs Suzuki should be fun.</p>

[nerodragomir1]

Like I said before, Ibushi in no way made sense. This was 100% Naito's Wrestlekingdom. Ibushi winning, only to lose one night later would have soured Naito's win. He has been chased by the I.C title, to the point to where he was practically stuck with it. The I.C title finally payed off for him though. Him winning the title against Okada was a payoff of nearly a decade. His win in 2016 against Okada was a disappointment & this win will correct that bad run.

[Derek B]

<p>Not long finished watching both nights of Wrestle Kingdom and New Year's Dash... damn, it's been a lot of wrestling to try to watch these last couple of days. But when it's this good all round, you can't really complain. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

Overalls thoughts...</p><p> </p><p>

- The world title picture has been set and ended up with the less likely of the options I was expecting.... when the two nights were announced it seemed (unfortunately) obvious that Ibushi wasn't going to win on night 1, but I really thought Okada was going to be the man standing tall at the end of Night 2... nice to see that I was wrong, as Tetsuya Naito finally picked up his big win on the biggest stage of them all! Only to then be attacked by former Openweight KENTA after the match.... didn't see that one coming, but I guess they're elevating KENTA while presumably giving Naito a relatively simple first defence.</p><p> </p><p>

- The match between Jericho and Tanahashi was great, but I really, really, really, really wish that Tanahashi had picked up the win. Purely because I would love to see a working relationship between AEW and NJPW to get some amazing matches there that I'm sure both sets of fans would love to see and would react loudly to.</p><p> </p><p>

- The US title is going back home with Jon Moxley as predicted, but he had a couple of great matches again with Lance Archer and Juice Robinson to wrap up those rivalries.... and spark the beginning of something with the legend Minoru Suzuki. Good lord, I'm excited for this one. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

- SANADA vs ZSJ was unbelievable... one of the craziest, fastest technical matches I think I've ever seen. Just mind blowing stuff. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/eek.png.0e09df00fa222c85760b9bc1700b5405.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

- Hiromu Takahashi vs Will Ospreay was also absolutely insane and amazing... massive feel good moment for Hiromu as he picks up the Junior title from what I would consider to be the best wrestler of 2019. Great to see Hiromu able to perform at such a high level, but I was sad to see that his music had changed... I loved his old one. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

- Everything Jushin Thunder Liger.... English commentary put him over as being super humble which is why everything he did was opening the show rather than higher up the card as might have been predicted for a legend like him. Seeing Tanahashi crying during the retirement ceremony on New Year's Dash made me cry a little too, Liger has had such an amazing career and is one of the most iconic performers of all time. He's going to be missed.</p><p> </p><p>

- The Guerillas of Destiny losing the tag titles was a bit of a surprise for me as David Finlay Jr and Juice Robinson pulled off the upset on the back of their surprise World Tag League win. Exciting to see NJPW elevating more young and mostly homegrown talent, and it looks like they are going to be facing Hiroshi Tanahashi and Kota ibushi which is.... good? Not sure how I feel about that one yet, but I trust Gedo to know what he's doing when it comes to booking. </p><p> </p><p>

- I hope that 2020 is the year that tag team wrestling becomes more important again. There are a bunch of undercard talents that could be put into more regular teams to boost the division, and I'm sure their international links can continue to put over some teams from other companies too. Ishii/Goto feel like a team ready to go... YOSHI-HASHI/Okada could be a fun team too.... I'm looking forward to seeing how the line up for the New Japan Cup is going to look when that comes up, it's not far away!</p><p> </p><p>

- Also, the G1 has been pushed from summer to autumn/fall this year due to the Summer Olympics.... which is probably a good move, as I feel like the length of time from the G1 winner getting to the Tokyo Dome shows is a little bit too long. If the booking goes well with this, I wonder if it could be a permanent move?</p><p> </p><p>

- Goto wins the Openweight title again... I love the man, it's a shame he's now the default champion there along with Naito as the IC champion and Okada as World champion and GOD as tag and Roppongi 3K as Jr Tag.... the 6 man titles also changed hands, but I've already forgotten who to, which isn't a good sign for the belts. I wonder if there is a line of thinking in the company that might want to trim down the number of titles a little but in preparation for a potential AEW-NJPW link in future? Who knows?! <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

Anywho, that's my thoughts for now. Lots happened and it was pretty much all great. I've heard there are some potential injuries so we will see how things go. I know I'm looking forward to the future here of course <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[fullMETAL]

At the very least, Okada is cemented to no longer be the unconquerable mountain he was nearly 2 years ago, which is actually really good in the long term, and probably a better storytelling tool for his opponents to use in a standalone feud than for, say, Tanahashi's whole thing.

(But to be fair, "Beat Tanahashi in a major match = you have the potential to make it" leading INTO "Beat Okada in a major match = yup, you've made it" is still a good progression to strive for in the NJPW main event scene)

 

I think I've previously added my own two cents the whole "always the bridesmaid, never the bride" problem with Hirooki Goto, but at this point, while they focus on like 5 or 6 not-Goto dudes for the big belt, I'll settle for him holding ANY singles belt.

That feud with Suzuki last year really should've put him in the conversation for the Heavyweight belt.

I wouldn't mind seeing him run with the US Title for a while in a short-but-sweet hard-hitting feud with Mox though -- it would get more eyes (especially here in the US) on how good Goto really is when he's not being overshadowed by Okada, and show NJPW that we really do care about seeing him make it to the top.

 

The Naito/KENTA feud over the two belt(s) is going to absolutely RULE ASS this year, as WARHORSE would put it.

Only an idiot would screw this sure thing up.

[Jaysin]

Night 2 was a better overall show, but both nights were fun. Won’t get to watch New Year Dash until tomorrow, but thanks to Naito winning and Hiromu being back I’m back on the NJPW train.

 

Minor complaint, but I HATE the English commentary team. Kevin, Chris, and Gino are terrible. Rocky is ok, but man, I can’t stand the other three.