Is anybody else frustrated with TEW16?

Lex Star · May 25, 2016

I just loaded up my RTG game and autobooked a show and threw a random match together with main eventers... I set it to last 8 minutes and the match scored a B, which sounds about right.

The penalty is not as harsh as everyone is making it out to be. It can be a bad idea to Main Event your PPV with an 8 minute match.... and it really should be a bad idea, because it would be a horrible way to end a large event.

Remianen · May 25, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Matt Shannon" data-cite="Matt Shannon" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Are you mixing up match ratios with match times? Because I believe turning off match ratios only turns off the penalties for not being within the range of your product if it's, say, 80% matches and 20% angles.</div></blockquote> <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Gungner" data-cite="Gungner" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah, you can't turn off the match time penalty... You can turn off match aims and match ratios.</div></blockquote> Which is exactly what I was referring to. Match length penalties have always existed. It's just now they're actually visible to the user (and a lot more stringent). I turn off match aims for my TV shows and turn them on for PPVs because I don't book my TV to be the best thing ever (that's what my events/PPVs are for!). Since the people on my roster best suited for 'storytelling' match aims tend to be congregated at the top of the card (by design), it doesn't make sense to me to be putting PPV quality matches on free TV (literally, free-to-air). <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Nickman" data-cite="The Nickman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah, I don't think the match penalty is anywhere near as bad as people are making out here.</div></blockquote> I would agree, but then I haven't experienced anything unexpected either. I don't expect throwaway matches (which is what I consider anything under 14 mins that involves people at midcarder or higher) to rate out as well as they would if they were longer. I always saw the fact that this was possible in TEW13 as a bit of a loophole.

Jaded · May 25, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Lex Star" data-cite="Lex Star" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I just loaded up my RTG game and autobooked a show and threw a random match together with main eventers... I set it to last 8 minutes and the match scored a B, which sounds about right. The penalty is not as harsh as everyone is making it out to be. It can be a bad idea to Main Event your PPV with an 8 minute match.... and it really should be a bad idea, because it would be a horrible way to end a large event.</div></blockquote> Yeah - I'm playing as ACPW; 90% of my main events are 13 minutes or less long and I'm hitting B/B- regularly. (Or was, until SWF stole Jamie Atherton; bah!!)

iruleall15 · May 25, 2016

Ive had no problems with ratings either. My product requires 1 "Story Telling" and 1 "Steal The Show" aim each show. The story telling im clueless as to its point. But Steal the Show is very obvious. My first show in this game scored a 58, 2nd show for a 66 and since than I havent had a single show under 73 using the Cverse as a regional company

TeemuFoundation · May 25, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Remianen" data-cite="Remianen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't expect throwaway matches (which is what I consider anything under 14 mins that involves people at midcarder or higher) to rate out as well as they would if they were longer. I always saw the fact that this was possible in TEW13 as a bit of a loophole.</div></blockquote> Shawn Michaels & Steve Austin vs. Owen Hart & The British Bulldog, RAW 1997 - 13 minutes - ****1/4 Wrestling Observer Newsletter Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit vs. Triple H & Steve Austin, RAW 2001 - 13 minutes - ****3/4 Wrestling Observer Newsletter Kuniaki Kobayashi vs. Tiger Mask, AJPW Gekitoh Exciting Wars 1985 - 11 minutes - ***** Wrestling Observer Newsletter Jushin Thunder Liger vs. The Great Sasuke, NJPW Summer Struggle 1994 - 15 minutes - ***** Wrestling Observer Newsletter (Okay, 15 minutes, I'll give you that, but still under the 20 minute limit) Bullet Club vs. Kazuchika Okada & The Kingdom, NJPW G1 Climax 25 - 11 minutes - **** Wrestling Observer Newsletter Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero, Halloween Havoc 1997 - 13 minutes - ****3/4 Wrestling Observer Newsletter And there are plenty more, these came to my mind off the top of my head. I could list them all day. Throwaway matches? Also, none of those matches would be better if they were longer. They tell the story in that time, there is no more story to be told. Would every movie in history be better if they were 30 minutes longer? Of course not.

ink625 · May 25, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Zero" data-cite="Zero" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I agree. The match times suck. Anything under 10 minutes caps at C basically. I'm not a big fan of match aims either. I like to book the whole show but I don't want to book match aims so I keep it as regular. The time cap is also frustrating. I was able to get solid B- 7-9 minute matches in TEW 13. </div></blockquote> <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Gungner" data-cite="Gungner" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That we can agree on... It makes no sense to me, that a match should cap at C if it's under 10 minutes long, no matter who's in the match.</div></blockquote> Just last night I had a 9 minute, throwaway PPV match pitting a midcarder with a popularity of 53, El Mitico Jr. against an enhancement talent with a popularity of 31, Amazing Fire Fly, that got an 80(B).

Zero · May 25, 2016

Must be the mod then

Teh_Showtime · May 25, 2016

Caps and penalties aren't based on the mods. It's not hard at all to get great matches that are short

Remianen · May 25, 2016

And there are plenty more, these came to my mind off the top of my head. I could list them all day.

Throwaway matches?

Also, none of those matches would be better if they were longer. They tell the story in that time, there is no more story to be told. Would every movie in history be better if they were 30 minutes longer? Of course not.

Run those matches in TEW and come back and report how they graded. We're talking about TEW here. It has never (and probably will never) ape reality.

There isn't a single way to accurately portray Double Inoue vs Cutie Suzuki & Mayumi Ozaki (a 5-star match according to the Wrestling Observer) in TEW. Note I said accurately. In TEW terms, that match couldn't rate higher than mid 80s. None of the women involved were particularly over. None of them were god-level in skill (Oz and Takako hadn't even peaked yet, ability wise). But the match was among the best matches of that year. How about Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs Dynamite Kansai & Mayumi Ozaki? That match was called among the best of ALL TIME (Match of the Year, 1993). Again, they weren't crazy over or Cornell level in skill and even with chemistry bonuses, you can't recreate that in TEW.

So let me be as explicit as possible to avoid any further misunderstandings: In TEW, I consider a throwaway match to be one involving midcarders or above in a match of less than 14 minutes (in-ring time) in length.

Cool?

d12345 · May 26, 2016

Run those matches in TEW and come back and report how they graded. We're talking about TEW here. It has never (and probably will never) ape reality.

There isn't a single way to accurately portray Double Inoue vs Cutie Suzuki & Mayumi Ozaki (a 5-star match according to the Wrestling Observer) in TEW. Note I said accurately. In TEW terms, that match couldn't rate higher than mid 80s. None of the women involved were particularly over. None of them were god-level in skill (Oz and Takako hadn't even peaked yet, ability wise). But the match was among the best matches of that year. How about Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs Dynamite Kansai & Mayumi Ozaki? That match was called among the best of ALL TIME (Match of the Year, 1993). Again, they weren't crazy over or Cornell level in skill and even with chemistry bonuses, you can't recreate that in TEW.

So let me be as explicit as possible to avoid any further misunderstandings: In TEW, I consider a throwaway match to be one involving midcarders or above in a match of less than 14 minutes (in-ring time) in length.

Cool?

Mid 80s to me is a match of the year level match. IRL you don't get Best Match of ALL TIME every year. So Match of the Year for 2015 needs to be on the same scale as Match of the Year from 1995.

I don't see an issue with making getting a 90 and up match nearly impossible all around, due to the amount of things that have to go right to accomplish the greatest match of all time.

IMO that shouldn't be something that you can get on each of your PPV events.

BuddyGarner · May 26, 2016

The difficulty scales with the match ratio penalty. It's far easier to get good angle ratings than match ratings so the higher your angle ratio the easier it is to score well.

But yes this is the easiest TEW. The more flexibility offered to the player the greater the advantage the player has. And broadcasters give the player huge flexibility.

Zero · May 26, 2016

I ran Hogan vs. Savage 3x. Both have 89 and 94 popularization and good momentum

Match 1 - 8 Minutes - C

Match 2 - 15 minutes - B

Match 3 - 22 Minutes - B

Match 2 and 3 are expected. Once again, I'm comparing my data to TEW 13 and my results are skewed. I've booked over 100 shows so far on TEW 16 and noticed it has been a problem. I worked around it by turning match times off and just extending the show.

Jaded · May 26, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Zero" data-cite="Zero" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I ran Hogan vs. Savage 3x. Both have 89 and 94 popularization and good momentum Match 1 - 8 Minutes - C Match 2 - 15 minutes - B Match 3 - 22 Minutes - B Match 2 and 3 are expected. Once again, I'm comparing my data to TEW 13 and my results are skewed. I've booked over 100 shows so far on TEW 16 and noticed it has been a problem. I worked around it by turning match times off and just extending the show.</div></blockquote> What other road agent notes are you using? Are you adjusting them to get the best results possible?

d12345 · May 26, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Zero" data-cite="Zero" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I ran Hogan vs. Savage 3x. Both have 89 and 94 popularization and good momentum Match 1 - 8 Minutes - C Match 2 - 15 minutes - B Match 3 - 22 Minutes - B Match 2 and 3 are expected. Once again, I'm comparing my data to TEW 13 and my results are skewed. I've booked over 100 shows so far on TEW 16 and noticed it has been a problem. I worked around it by turning match times off and just extending the show.</div></blockquote> you're not providing enough data here for your results as written to have meaning within TEW 16. I've put on a 6 minute bout in C-Verse TCW (Joel Bryant vs Tana) that got a 76 rating, and neither of them are more than 60 pop. Things to consider: product (perf or pop), where on the card the match is, is there a storyline, is that storyline hot, what match aim are you using, did bring down the crowd and then warm them up properly with the prior matches, did you burn out the crowd? You can't just say I had a match of hogan vs savage and it got a C so that's a problem...

Blackman · May 26, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Justin" data-cite="Justin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Every match should tell a story, so to have to put on one "story" match</div></blockquote> They do, but it's covered in a different way. Psychology covers this. Story matches are things that frame the match in a larger whole, like the whole Golden Truth gig going on atm. They aren't comedy matches, but are advancing the storyline without being segments (you can't always have segments).

Zero · May 26, 2016

Match Aims are turned off. It is a storyline. I have done this numerous times at different card placements.

The medium and longer match were main event. The short match was mid-show. Perfect show theory is turned off. Population based federation (WWF). Storyline is hot. Match aims off.

Jaded · May 26, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Zero" data-cite="Zero" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Match Aims are turned off. It is a storyline. I have done this numerous times at different card placements. The medium and longer match were main event. The short match was mid-show. Perfect show theory is turned off. Population based federation (WWF). Storyline is hot. Match aims off.</div></blockquote> Ok, but are you using road agent notes to boost them? For example, the 8 minute match will almost certainly work better with 'all out' than without it, I'd say.

Zero · May 26, 2016

Nope. I typically don't use those notes. I just book the match and that is it. Haven't booked the winner

d12345 · May 26, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Zero" data-cite="Zero" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Nope. I typically don't use those notes. I just book the match and that is it. Haven't booked the winner</div></blockquote> Interesting. I think you should try that 8 minute match again with a few key road agent notes that will boost the grade. For short matches consider these notes: All-Out match (depending on the competitors some can't go all out effectively) Open Match (That will make it a back and forth contest and boost grade) Decisive winner (that can help the grade sometimes) Protect if Hogan's skills are really low (dont play RW mods so I dont know) Then also card placement is important even with Perfect Show Theory turned off. PST only makes it so that the PST isn't taken into account for the show grade. You still need to make sure not to burn out your crowd by having par or subpar matches somewhere on the card before your big finale. So try opening the show with that 8 minute match one time. Then another time try putting that 8 minute match in the 4th match of the night. Match 1 the opener should be a good one, match 2 should be sub par and bring your crowd down, match 3 should be a good one and bring the crowd up (but not better than Hogan Savage), then match 4 should be Hogan v Savage with some of the above road agent notes selected at your discretion. That will help you get better than a C guaranteed.

Rhysrob · May 26, 2016

I feel like am having issues with the match length cap/penalty as well, but I'm not particularly versed in how everything works.

In TEW13 I recall remember there used to be an expectation on how long a match should last, varying for each promotion-- is this the same feature but now hidden in the Dirt Sheet/generalized?

I do tend to find I can't get a match over the low 80's! I understand there are a variety of factors involved but I would like to hear how people utilize their match length times to push past the caps

Jaded · May 26, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Zero" data-cite="Zero" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Nope. I typically don't use those notes. I just book the match and that is it. Haven't booked the winner</div></blockquote> I'm guessing that's a key part of your problem then.

Jaded · May 26, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rhysrob" data-cite="Rhysrob" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I feel like am having issues with the match length cap/penalty as well, but I'm not particularly versed in how everything works. In TEW13 I recall remember there used to be an expectation on how long a match should last, varying for each promotion-- is this the same feature but now hidden in the Dirt Sheet/generalized? I do tend to find I can't get a match over the low 80's! I understand there are a variety of factors involved but I would like to hear how people utilize their match length times to push past the caps</div></blockquote> I believe it's generalised now but I think Adam's said they're only minor penalties. For me, I use open match on any match between top guys where I'm hoping for a good grade out of it. (So main events and semi-mains, typically.) For main event matches between people with low psych, I go 8 - 13 mins, either regular match aim with 'all out' note or 'steal the show' match aim. For main event matches where both have decent psych (72 or over, playing as ACPW) I go 16 - 19 mins, generally, either 'spectacle' match aim or regular with 'slow build'. Both of these approaches seem to be getting me B/B- grades in most mains, playing with ACPW and using some combination of Diablo/Atherton/Mimic/Jayson van der Pelt/Flash Savage/Leftie Wilkes.

TeemuFoundation · May 26, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Remianen" data-cite="Remianen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Run those matches in TEW and come back and report how they graded. We're talking about TEW here. It has never (and probably will never) ape reality. There isn't a single way to accurately portray Double Inoue vs Cutie Suzuki & Mayumi Ozaki (a 5-star match according to the Wrestling Observer) in TEW. Note I said accurately. In TEW terms, that match couldn't rate higher than mid 80s. None of the women involved were particularly over. None of them were god-level in skill (Oz and Takako hadn't even peaked yet, ability wise). But the match was among the best matches of that year. How about Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs Dynamite Kansai & Mayumi Ozaki? That match was called among the best of ALL TIME (Match of the Year, 1993). Again, they weren't crazy over or Cornell level in skill and even with chemistry bonuses, you can't recreate that in TEW. So let me be as explicit as possible to avoid any further misunderstandings: In TEW, I consider a throwaway match to be one involving midcarders or above in a match of less than 14 minutes (in-ring time) in length. Cool?</div></blockquote> Cool <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> It's just the anti-IWC fan in me, who basically goes like this when someone states that a match being longer automatically makes it better: <a href="https://i.imgur.com/dNVvntX.gif?noredirect" rel="external nofollow">https://i.imgur.com/dNVvntX.gif?noredirect</a> <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> I've said this here before, but I'll repeat it: WrestleMania was a prime example of how some matches need to be short. Both the Hell in a Cell and the main event were at least 15, maybe even 20, minutes too long, and would have benefitted from their time being cut. Too much unentertaining, uninteresting lying around, restholds, forced "epic" selling, etc. The reason Triple H's main events always suck is because he's fixated on this idea that a big match needs to be an "EPIC" 30 minutes of working someone's bodypart because it "tells a story". Even if the buildup has been wild brawls all over the arena for four weeks, and in storyline, the guys are ready to kill each other once they hit the ring. Then the bell rings, and it's.. alrighty then, collar and elbow tieup time! Hammerlock! Working the leg! But this is not a knock on you, or your views on wrestling, it's just wrestling, it's subjective. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Sorry if I was rude earlier.

jonnycosmic · May 26, 2016

The best thing about TEW 2016 is that you can turn off all the new additions that just don't work. A lot of it doesn't, as the OP states, but by finding the right options to keep on and which ones to turn off, I've found a good balance that makes the game enjoyable.

Matsudiro · May 26, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TeemuFoundation" data-cite="TeemuFoundation" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41730" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Cool <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> It's just the anti-IWC fan in me, who basically goes like this when someone states that a match being longer automatically makes it better: <a href="https://i.imgur.com/dNVvntX.gif?noredirect" rel="external nofollow">https://i.imgur.com/dNVvntX.gif?noredirect</a> <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> I've said this here before, but I'll repeat it: WrestleMania was a prime example of how some matches need to be short. Both the Hell in a Cell and the main event were at least 15, maybe even 20, minutes too long, and would have benefitted from their time being cut. Too much unentertaining, uninteresting lying around, restholds, forced "epic" selling, etc. The reason Triple H's main events always suck is because he's fixated on this idea that a big match needs to be an "EPIC" 30 minutes of working someone's bodypart because it "tells a story". Even if the buildup has been wild brawls all over the arena for four weeks, and in storyline, the guys are ready to kill each other once they hit the ring. Then the bell rings, and it's.. alrighty then, collar and elbow tieup time! Hammerlock! Working the leg! But this is not a knock on you, or your views on wrestling, it's just wrestling, it's subjective. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Sorry if I was rude earlier.</div></blockquote> I'm never one to pass up a chance to dog matches with bloat, most of NJ's main events in the BushiRoad era could do with cutting out a good 10 minutes (looking at you Ishii).

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