The Brexit vote

OctoberRaven · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If Scotland and Northern Ireland want to leave the UK and become part of the EU that's fine. Scotland already had a referendum to leave with a totally (in the end) failed campaign, they based it all on new oil reserves found, which after they voted to stay, they realised after that the oil would have nowhere near kept them afloat. So if England didn't have to help keep Scotland and Northern Ireland up and the EU did instead, then tho whole island (plus the Irish island) would benefit.</div></blockquote> This would make sense if not for the fact that it's totally bunk and that England and Wales are going to go into default without the EU propping them up because they are that economically dependant on the EU. <a href="https://i.redditmedia.com/6HwSue1qAsDdokYMZRv4qp_EQUKlUflJIhCI6UwW7JY.jpg?w=760&" rel="external nofollow">https://i.redditmedia.com/6HwSue1qAsDdokYMZRv4qp_EQUKlUflJIhCI6UwW7JY.jpg?w=760&</a>

packerman120 · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Tell me what's nonsense? Which one of the 4 uk countries are you from/ do you live in?</div></blockquote> I don't live in any of them, but I'm just saying here, can you back up any of these claims you making? Or have, I don't know, a basic understanding of political polling?

Peter.1986 · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="OctoberRaven" data-cite="OctoberRaven" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Which could be possible if not for two things: 1) It was based on ONLY UK searches and 2) Brexiters have ALSO been quoted as saying that they didn't know their vote was even FOR leaving the EU With those facts in place, it's almost certain that the vast majority of those searches were by ignorant leavers. Yes, that is statistical analysis, and it is a vital part of sociological research. Dismissing it like you do is just pure anti-intellectualism. Pretending that people who do this don't know what they're talking about is no different than being someone who goes to the doctor, gets a prescription, and then tears it up because you know better than him and you're going to slap some leeches on you instead.</div></blockquote> I'm not arguing the fact that there are figures there, I haven't seen them myself but without seeing them I will take your word that they are true. My point is though that people are taking these figures and it's what they're doing with them that's wrong. Point one you made was about figures Point 2 was implying the figures meant brexit voted were the reason for the figures, based on a few people who were quoted saying certain things. So doing that, and then giving me the 'anti-illectualism' line is quite ironic I'm afraid

Peter.1986 · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="packerman120" data-cite="packerman120" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't live in any of them, but I'm just saying here, can you back up any of these claims you making? Or have, I don't know, a basic understanding of political polling?</div></blockquote> That's even better really considering. So quote me in the nonsenseband I will explain what's going over over here <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

OctoberRaven · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm not arguing the fact that there are figures there, I haven't seen them myself but without seeing them I will take your word that they are true. My point is though that people are taking these figures and it's what they're doing with them that's wrong. </div></blockquote> Okay, you want to know what my sources on this are? Fine: People I speak to online, who live in the UK, work with leavers, have family that are leavers, have neighbors that are leavers, and have facebook walls filled with people who are leavers. It's not "a few people on the TV". It's dozens of people informing me, through personal experience, what people who voted leave said, and what's reported is that nearly all of them did it solely because they wanted the foreigners out. But hey, that not good enough for you? See the backlash when Boris "Not qualified to run a lemonade stand" Johnson said that there would be no immigration policies changed. It was MASSIVE. See the IMMEDIATE REVERSAL of people who REALIZED THEIR VOTE MEANT LEAVING THE EU. See the people who changed their minds the SECOND the pound dropped to a thirty year low. See that the call for re-vote is being spearheaded BY PEOPLE WHO VOTED EXIT. Brexiters fell victim to demogaugery and herd mentality and because of it the world economy is going to be in peril.

Peter.1986 · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="OctoberRaven" data-cite="OctoberRaven" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Okay, you want to know what my sources on this are? Fine: People I speak to online, who live in the UK, work with leavers, have family that are leavers, have neighbors that are leavers, and have facebook walls filled with people who are leavers. It's not "a few people on the TV". It's dozens of people informing me, through personal experience, what people who voted leave said, and what's reported is that nearly all of them did it solely because they wanted the foreigners out. But hey, that not good enough for you? See the backlash when Boris "Not qualified to run a lemonade stand" Johnson said that there would be no immigration policies changed. It was MASSIVE. See the IMMEDIATE REVERSAL of people who REALIZED THEIR VOTE MEANT LEAVING THE EU. See the people who changed their minds the SECOND the pound dropped to a thirty year low. See that the call for re-vote is being spearheaded BY PEOPLE WHO VOTED EXIT. Brexiters fell victim to demogaugery and herd mentality and because of it the world economy is going to be in peril.</div></blockquote> You must have done well to speak to a vast majority (over 8.8 million people) since Friday. The vote is a ballot so nobody knows what anyone is voting, a morning hear people can be remain voters, pretending etc The petition was started by a leave voter, before the election, not that he's changed his mind, he's even commented about it. A lot of signatures have been removed because people are giving postcodes out for people from other countries to sign and pretend they are from the UK. The pound dropped before the vote and after, but before the end of the day in Friday it started going back up. Read both sides, when you look at something look at what alternative factors there are. Come on you sound like a knowledgable person, but you are lacking the ability to dig deeper into the surface of what you see

kn23m · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I still don't get why you're mad at me. The vote to leave the EU proves the average man in the UK does NOT want to get involved in other countries business. I'm all for the world becoming a better place, but the UK needs to make itself a better place before it can make others better. That's pretty much the bottom line of it.</div></blockquote> Why I am mad at you (if we call it being mad in the first place)? Because the way you think is a great example what your government think not only now, but for centuries! We MUST do what better for ONLY us and if the rest of the world will burn in hell in the process, then let it happen! What was the reason behind USA backed up by their closest ally UK marching in Iraq in 2003 killing half of their men and raping half of their women? Was is because they wanted to "liberate" poor people of Iraq from their tyrant Saddam Hussein and bring, the be all and end all of 21st century, what is called Democracy to Iraqians or it was simply down to the fact that you put an eye onto that precious oil that is in Iraq, because it will help make the uk great again!?! The same thing then happened few years later in Lybia and now in Syria and then you have a nerve to tell me that "the UK does NOT want to get involved in other countries business"?!?

OctoberRaven · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You must have done well to speak to a vast majority (over 8.8 million people) since Friday. </div></blockquote> Stopped reading here. You're obviously just making excuses now. Also 8.8 million is not a vast majority. It's not even the actual number of people who voted out. Leave 51.9% Votes 17,410,742 Votes Remain 48.1% Votes 16,141,241 Votes 8.8 isn't a majority of 33.5m. 17.4 million isn't a vast majority of 33.5m. It's not even close to a majority of people in the UK, which is 64.1m, or the adult population, which is about 47.5m (71% turnout means 71% of legal adults voted; 33.5 * 71 / 100 = 47.5m You can't even form a factually correct excuse. Your argument = invalid.

Peter.1986 · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="OctoberRaven" data-cite="OctoberRaven" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Stopped reading here. You're obviously just making excuses now. Also 8.8 million is not a vast majority. It's not even the actual number of people who voted out. Leave 51.9% Votes 17,410,742 Votes Remain 48.1% Votes 16,141,241 Votes 8.8 isn't a majority of 35.5m. 17.4 million isn't a vast majority of 35.5m. It's not even close to a majority of people in the UK, which is 64.1m, or the adult population, which is about 50m (71% turnout means 71% of legal adults voted; 35.5 * 71 / 100 = 50 You can't even form a factually correct excuse. Your argument = invalid.</div></blockquote> Slow down. You said a vast majority of LEAVE voters. Therefore as explained earlier (you probably didn't read it as I mentioned above you don't seem to be able to look at both sides) 17.4 million leave voters 8.7 is half, 8.8 would be a MAJORITY. So as I said a vast majority is way over 8.8 million people who you claim are represented by the people you have spoke to since Friday. So you've said my arguement is invalid without actually reading it.

Peter.1986 · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="kn23m" data-cite="kn23m" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Why I am mad at you (if we call it being mad in the first place)? Because the way you think is a great example what your government think not only now, but for centuries! We MUST do what better for ONLY us and if the rest of the world will burn in hell in the process, then let it happen! What was the reason behind USA backed up by their closest ally UK marching in Iraq in 2003 killing half of their men and raping half of their women? Was is because they wanted to "liberate" poor people of Iraq from their tyrant Saddam Hussein and bring, the be all and end all of 21st century, what is called Democracy to Iraqians or it was simply down to the fact that you put an eye onto that precious oil that is in Iraq, because it will help make the uk great again!?! The same thing then happened few years later in Lybia and now in Syria and then you have a nerve to tell me that "the UK does NOT want to get involved in other countries business"?!?</div></blockquote> We do call it been mad yes. You again are failing to read what I'm putting. I'm talking about the average UK person, the people that create wars to invade are the government and the upper class. There was no vote to go to war with Iraq for the working class it was done in parliament. All these years you're talking about Latvia being under soviet control, working class people in this country had terrible loves too. You do realise a lot of these people who run businesses and screw other people and countries over, were likely to back the remain campaign? Majority of parliament and politicians backed the remain campaign and those were the type of people who voted to go to war. So without even discussing the reason why, you must learn a little more about this country before deciding what the people are like

OctoberRaven · June 27, 2016

It's still a stupid statement to make because you're asserting I have to speak to literally millions of people, which is not how statistical analysis works.

At any rate a simple majority for this kind of referendum is completely moronic, because it allows stupid people to rule by making a stupid decision leaving Britain. Instead it was about "taking the country back", which is historically racist code talk for "get rid of all the people who are different from us". That's what it meant when Brian Boru killed Viking descendants living in Ireland despite having integrated peacefully since before he was born, that's what it meant in Germany in 1939, that's what it meant when Pol Pot said it and it's what it means when Nigel Farage, Donald Trump, et al say it.

It should be noted that this is the second time that the UK has held a formal referendum on the EU. What has changed from 1975 to 2016?

Census Foreign-born

population Percentage increase

over previous decade Percentage of

total population[3]

1971 3,190,300 24.0 5.8

1981 3,429,100 7.5 6.2

1991 3,835,400 11.8 6.7

2001 4,896,600 27.7 8.3

2011 7,505,000 53.3 11.9

2015 8,461,102 13.1

So when I say there are massive racist undertones, I have much more than stastics on my side. I have history on my side, and I have the sheer unadulterated fact that there are zero economic or civil benefits to leaving the EU; especially when the pro-leave British MPs themselves admit that they want to be economically bound to the Eurozone which is the entire ****ing point of the EU!

OctoberRaven · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>We do call it been mad yes. You again are failing to read what I'm putting. I'm talking about the average UK person, the people that create wars to invade are the government and the upper class. There was no vote to go to war with Iraq for the working class it was done in parliament. </div></blockquote> That's how representative democracy works, you know. You vote for people who vote for things on your behalf. When they **** up, or go against your wishes, you vote them out. If it was solely the House of Lords you'd actually have a point but it wasn't.

kn23m · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You again are failing to read what I'm putting. I'm talking about the average UK person, the people that create wars to invade are the government and the upper class. There was no vote to go to war with Iraq for the working class it was done in parliament.</div></blockquote> Really? Let's get it straight - basically what you are trying to say that you again are not responsible for anything? You don't vote for your OWN government? Is Germany (or place here any other country in the world or, for God sake, be it even aliens) electing it in your place? Because as far as I remember in elections that took place in uk in 2001 Labour party won and government was led by Tony Blair and the same happened 4 years latter in 2005, so it looks like the majority of people was more then happy what Blair and all his assassin crew did in Iraq! <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You do realise a lot of these people who run businesses and screw other people and countries over, were likely to back the remain campaign? Majority of parliament and politicians backed the remain campaign and those were the type of people who voted to go to war. </div></blockquote> And who are the people behind the LEAVE campaign? Are those really the pure people who think about interests of working class or they are simply thinking lets make a populist campaign for the most desperate, uneducated or simply ignorant part of our society, get a following out of it and maybe in next elections we will get some warm place in our or EU government?

Peter.1986 · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="OctoberRaven" data-cite="OctoberRaven" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's still a stupid statement to make because you're asserting I have to speak to literally millions of people, which is not how statistical analysis works. At any rate a simple majority for this kind of referendum is completely moronic, because it allows stupid people to rule by making a stupid decision leaving Britain. Instead it was about "taking the country back", which is historically racist code talk for "get rid of all the people who are different from us". That's what it meant when Brian Boru killed Viking descendants living in Ireland despite having integrated peacefully since before he was born, that's what it meant in Germany in 1939, that's what it meant when Pol Pot said it and it's what it means when Nigel Farage, Donald Trump, et al say it. It should be noted that this is the second time that the UK has held a formal referendum on the EU. What has changed from 1975 to 2016? Census Foreign-born population Percentage increase over previous decade Percentage of total population[3] 1971 3,190,300 24.0 5.8 1981 3,429,100 7.5 6.2 1991 3,835,400 11.8 6.7 2001 4,896,600 27.7 8.3 2011 7,505,000 53.3 11.9 2015 8,461,102 13.1 So when I say there are massive racist undertones, I have much more than stastics on my side. I have history on my side, and I have the sheer unadulterated fact that there are zero economic or civil benefits to leaving the EU; especially when the pro-leave British MPs themselves admit that they want to be economically bound to the Eurozone which is the entire ****ing point of the EU!</div></blockquote> No you said a vast majority of people voted leave for those reason, based on a few people you spoke to. So you are stereotyping over 8.8 million people based on a few people who either did actually vote leave, or are trying to damage leave voters by pretending the voted leave for those reason. Statistical analysis is a very good tool to use for many things, but not when it comes to humans opinions, especially as you will find different areas have much different percentages. For example: Somebody on my Facebook, said 99% of people on Facebook said they were going to vote leave, so if leave didn't win it would be a fix. I pointed out that a news article, said that 30,000 people in Cambridge alone, were voting for the first time just to vote remain. I said even if that article has 10% of truth in it, then there are more people in Cambridge voting leave mentioned in that article than his 1,000 or so friends on Facebook (whom probably less than a 100 said they were voting leave) You see I've been putting the same sort of debates across to leave voters too, who don't usderstand how different this country or kingdom is. I don't know what the last rant is all about really, your talking about immigration for what reason? That you are hell bent on making it out to be about immigration. I voted leave and didn't do it because of immigration. You can't prove there are no benefits to leaving the EU, you can predict, but you can't prove it is going to happen. You obviously are angry about the vote. I don't know where you live, or what you work as, but I imagine you aren't as poor as a lot of people who voted to leave. Lastly when you mention why have it in the first place. : well it was the biggest throng in the Tory manifesto which they knew they need to be voted back into power. So everybody who voted tories voted for the refurendum to happen. Now they're the ones who are crying (and they really are crying like spoilt children) over the fact we are not going to be part of the away anymore. Thank you conservatives, the only good thing you have ever done for the working class.

kn23m · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="OctoberRaven" data-cite="OctoberRaven" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That's how representative democracy works, you know. You vote for people who vote for things on your behalf. When they **** up, or go against your wishes, you vote them out. If it was solely the House of Lords you'd actually have a point but it wasn't.</div></blockquote> It looks like he have no idea not even what free market is, what competition is, but even what democracy is and how it all works...

OctoberRaven · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> You can't prove there are no benefits to leaving the EU, you can predict, but you can't prove it is going to happen. </div></blockquote> First, there's the fact that every credible major economist has said leaving the EU is going to cause severe problems for the UK. The only ones who are saying there is a chance of minimal effect note that this is only possible IF the UK remains in free trade with the Eurozone... which would, at best, mean a push- no ill, but no benefit either. However there's also the fact that the EU has been propping up the UK economy... and the places that are going to be hardest hit are the ones with the most leavers. <a href="https://i.redditmedia.com/6HwSue1qAsDdokYMZRv4qp_EQUKlUflJIhCI6UwW7JY.jpg?w=760&" rel="external nofollow">https://i.redditmedia.com/6HwSue1qAsDdokYMZRv4qp_EQUKlUflJIhCI6UwW7JY.jpg?w=760&</a> There's also the fact that Welsh Leave leader admits that Wales needs EU funding until 2020. Article 50 gives you two years, so... Wales is boned, by the words of a pro-leaver from Wales. And then there's your universities which WILL go bankrupt without EU support: <a href="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl0GLnxWgAArtHz.jpg" rel="external nofollow">https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl0GLnxWgAArtHz.jpg</a> In other words... there's no benefit, and there's a LOT of damage that can and probably will happen to not only the UK but the entire world. And I'm pissed about this because of the potential for this to cause a global recession all because a bunch of people who DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY WERE VOTING FOR decided to listen to the jack-booted goose-stepping Nigel Farage and Boris "American Donald Trump If Donald Trump Ever Had A Real Job But Still Sucked At It" Johnson.

OctoberRaven · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="kn23m" data-cite="kn23m" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It looks like he have no idea not even what free market is, what competition is, but even what democracy is and how it all works...</div></blockquote> And yet, he still understands politics better than Donald Trump.

Peter.1986 · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="OctoberRaven" data-cite="OctoberRaven" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>First, there's the fact that every credible major economist has said leaving the EU is going to cause severe problems for the UK. The only ones who are saying there is a chance of minimal effect note that this is only possible IF the UK remains in free trade with the Eurozone... which would, at best, mean a push- no ill, but no benefit either. However there's also the fact that the EU has been propping up the UK economy... and the places that are going to be hardest hit are the ones with the most leavers. <a href="https://i.redditmedia.com/6HwSue1qAsDdokYMZRv4qp_EQUKlUflJIhCI6UwW7JY.jpg?w=760&" rel="external nofollow">https://i.redditmedia.com/6HwSue1qAsDdokYMZRv4qp_EQUKlUflJIhCI6UwW7JY.jpg?w=760&</a> There's also the fact that Welsh Leave leader admits that Wales needs EU funding until 2020. Article 50 gives you two years, so... Wales is boned, by the words of a pro-leaver from Wales. And then there's your universities which WILL go bankrupt without EU support: <a href="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl0GLnxWgAArtHz.jpg" rel="external nofollow">https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl0GLnxWgAArtHz.jpg</a> In other words... there's no benefit, and there's a LOT of damage that can and probably will happen to not only the UK but the entire world. And I'm pissed about this because of the potential for this to cause a global recession all because a bunch of people who DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY WERE VOTING FOR decided to listen to the jack-booted goose-stepping Nigel Farage and Boris "American Donald Trump If Donald Trump Ever Had A Real Job But Still Sucked At It" Johnson.</div></blockquote> So you're not even from the UK?

OctoberRaven · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So you're not even from the UK?</div></blockquote> You just realized that now?

Peter.1986 · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="OctoberRaven" data-cite="OctoberRaven" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You just realized that now?</div></blockquote> Well I just thought you were out of touch which what goes on in the UK and were probably a Tory, remain voter who was fed a silver spoon. But you've just spent however long telling me what goes off in my country? As well as telling me reason why 'leave' voters, voted the way they did, when I am one myself. I cant believe half the things you have mentioned about how things should be run <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Have you even stepped foot in the UK?

mrwhippy · June 27, 2016

We won't be leaving any time soon anyway.

There's no mandate in place to exercise Article 50. Cameron is staying until October and there's zero chance he will do any of the donkey work. A general election at the end of the year is likely and any incumbent will have to put a mandate in place about exercising Article 50 (which will incur years of negotiation before anything happens). If a relatively pro-remain leader is elected then it's highly likely a second referendum will be called or they go to the negotiation table to cut a deal for us to remain in the Union with increased benefits.

Then there's the issue of Scotland throwing any spanner they can find in the process.

Then there's the issue of maintaining Northern Ireland's current protection treaty post-EU.

Then there's the issue of many other countries wanting their own referendum on the back of this, which will probably mean we have to wait it out until these countries have decided their own futures.

I think we might have brought about the beginning of the end of the EU in its current form but I highly doubt we will be fully free from some sort of union.

OctoberRaven · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Well I just thought you were out of touch which what goes on in the UK and were probably a Tory, remain voter who was fed a silver spoon.</div></blockquote> No, **** conservatism. But **** nationalism too. And seeing as <a href="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2171027#post2171027" rel="external nofollow">I have proved that I understand your government better than you do... </a> I'd say am more than qualified to talk about this.

mrwhippy · June 27, 2016

Not that I am both, but what is inherently wrong with being a Conservative and Remain supporter?

Peter.1986 · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="mrwhippy" data-cite="mrwhippy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>We won't be leaving any time soon anyway. There's no mandate in place to exercise Article 50. Cameron is staying until October and there's zero chance he will do any of the donkey work. A general election at the end of the year is likely and any incumbent will have to put a mandate in place about exercising Article 50 (which will incur years of negotiation before anything happens). If a relatively pro-remain leader is elected then it's highly likely a second referendum will be called or they go to the negotiation table to cut a deal for us to remain in the Union with increased benefits. Then there's the issue of Scotland throwing any spanner they can find in the process. Then there's the issue of maintaining Northern Ireland's current protection treaty post-EU. Then there's the issue of many other countries wanting their own referendum on the back of this, which will probably mean we have to wait it out until these countries have decided their own futures. I think we might have brought about the beginning of the end of the EU in its current form but I highly doubt we will be fully free from some sort of union.</div></blockquote> Exactly, both sides gave us the extremes of what would happen. Nothing has actually changed in this country we haven't even activated the clause. While nothing officially or legally has happened, the pound has gone down. Which shows the 'thought' of leaving is having a bigger effect than anything so far

OctoberRaven · June 27, 2016

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="mrwhippy" data-cite="mrwhippy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41963" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Not that I am both, but what is inherently wrong with being a Conservative and Remain supporter?</div></blockquote> Conservatism by it's very principle is at best stagnation and at worst regression; the concept that things are perfect as they are or were when no, we can do better and we should.

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