WCGreyghost Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="justtxyank" data-cite="justtxyank" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>A much needed improvement.<p> </p><p> I'd offer one suggestion: A big downside to the "handshake per appearance deal" should be that you CAN be stolen with no notice, as in, not even notified that they are negotiating. Based on personality and loyalties perhaps?</p><p> </p><p> Like if you have a worker with mercenary tendencies and no relationship with owner/booker, he's on a handshake PPA deal and a company comes and offers him a written monthly deal he can sign it and be gone and you get no notice that any of this happens. If he had loyalty to the company or to the owner/booker or a really good personality he would notify you of the offer.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> We call that the Frank Goodish clause....</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamHead Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 <p>So in 2020 we will be able to have written contracts, but make them non-exclusive? </p><p> </p><p> Similar to how LU and ROH do their contracts now? They can't leave until the contract is up, but they also are able to work for other companies?</p><p> </p><p> Is this correct?</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="JamHead" data-cite="JamHead" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So in 2020 we will be able to have written contracts, but make them non-exclusive? <p> </p><p> Similar to how LU and ROH do their contracts now? They can't leave until the contract is up, but they also are able to work for other companies?</p><p> </p><p> Is this correct?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's what the feature explanation explicitly says. It would be block them from signing exclusively somewhere else, but still allow them to work for other companies.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 <p>I think this seems like a positive step. I read handshakes has come and work for us thing, where people can go against their word. </p><p> </p><p> I still would hope to see</p><p> - (as mentioned by someone above) AI contract offers more varied and not just 3 year contracts</p><p> </p><p> - buy out of contracts. When someone agrees 6 years with AI there’s no turning back, in reality many people have moved while under contract.</p><p> </p><p> - (also mentioned above) contracted to so many dates</p><p> </p><p> - contracted to certain PPV + so many shows. Eg 5 shows plus wrestlemania, means you can put them on raw 5 weeks before. </p><p> </p><p> - more demands for things such as % of merchandise. A worker who is selling millions in merchandise isn’t going to stay for 0% of sales.</p><p> </p><p> - more contact clauses. Eg win certain belt by certain period (this can also be done verbally) you sign someone and promise them the world title legally then you can see in trouble. You sign someone to a written but promise the title verbally, you can get away with not giving them title and they might leave, or you keep promising them.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn michaels Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think this seems like a positive step. I read handshakes has come and work for us thing, where people can go against their word. <p> </p><p> I still would hope to see</p><p> - (as mentioned by someone above) AI contract offers more varied and not just 3 year contracts</p><p> </p><p> - buy out of contracts. When someone agrees 6 years with AI there’s no turning back, in reality many people have moved while under contract.</p><p> </p><p> - (also mentioned above) contracted to so many dates</p><p> </p><p> - contracted to certain PPV + so many shows. Eg 5 shows plus wrestlemania, means you can put them on raw 5 weeks before. </p><p> </p><p> - more demands for things such as % of merchandise. A worker who is selling millions in merchandise isn’t going to stay for 0% of sales.</p><p> </p><p> - more contact clauses. Eg win certain belt by certain period (this can also be done verbally) you sign someone and promise them the world title legally then you can see in trouble. You sign someone to a written but promise the title verbally, you can get away with not giving them title and they might leave, or you keep promising them.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> All of this is much needed and I'm seriously disappointed it did not happen in this game. There seems to be improvement in the new system and steps in a good direction, but all of the above would be much needed and help simulate so much better. Not just reality itself, but any scenario. Here is wishing they might still be added.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirMichaelJordan Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I would love to see more clauses in contracts and the workers actually demand some of them. Years past, it really was up to the user to add those things into the contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWF Fan Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="JamHead" data-cite="JamHead" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So in 2020 we will be able to have written contracts, but make them non-exclusive? <p> </p><p> Similar to how LU and ROH do their contracts now? They can't leave until the contract is up, but they also are able to work for other companies?</p><p> </p><p> Is this correct?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> For me, having them also do that means that company relationships really will matter more in 2020. You're not going to have WWE let any folk on their roster for example work for AEW, Impact, ROH, Lucha etc and vice-versa, it gives Mod Makers that extra little bit of work but makes the game world flow so much smoother. </p><p> </p><p> Also for mods, when it comes to something like NXT UK, it allows for people like a Pete Dunne or Tyler Bate for example to be on the WWE roster as a written non-exclusive, be on NXT UK as a written non-exclusive (with a working agreement for those wrestlers that aren't used on main television) and then continue to work in the UK for other companies. Its bloody exciting how this game is going to turn out.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SirMichaelJordan" data-cite="SirMichaelJordan" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I would love to see more clauses in contracts and the workers actually demand some of them. Years past, it really was up to the user to add those things into the contract.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Sometimes it lowered their price demands though..> "Not enough!" How about I guarantee you a sweet run with "X" Belt? Will that help? "Ok, sure!"</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirMichaelJordan Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Sometimes it lowered their price demands though..> "Not enough!" How about I guarantee you a sweet run with "X" Belt? Will that help? "Ok, sure!"</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yea it needs to be two sided. Otherwise it just seem like I’m just throwing money around until i hit the magic number. Everyone should come with what they want. The negotiation part is both sides meeting in the middle or common ground.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganRodzen Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 <p>I'm wondering if the PPA / Written money change has been affected with this new contract change. If anyone ever noticed, most top guys for a cult promotion would work shows for $2500-$3500 PPA. When you offer them a written deal, they usually want $20k or more. $3500 x 5 shows = $17,500</p><p> </p><p> I guess what I'm getting at... with this new feature and the way the old system worked, this would be extremely exploitable. I would just offer exclusive PPA deals to everyone and save the company quite a bit of money.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SirMichaelJordan" data-cite="SirMichaelJordan" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yea it needs to be two sided. Otherwise it just seem like I’m just throwing money around until i hit the magic number. Everyone should come with what they want. The negotiation part is both sides meeting in the middle or common ground.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If you're saying let them say what they actually want up front, I'm all for that. I honestly speed as fast as I can through negotiations, I've never really liked them. At first I thought it was kind of neat, offering champion run, work as this or that, not have to do house shows, etc. Or as a small promotion, just tell me how much I need to come up with up front. IF I messed up and paid someone too much, and now that makes you want more, just say so up front.</p><p> </p><p> I really feel they are way too picky when unemployed, still. It was addressed a bit last time, but really feel they should go down to 50%, and after being employed for a while start to build it back up.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If you're saying let them say what they actually want up front, I'm all for that. I honestly speed as fast as I can through negotiations, I've never really liked them. At first I thought it was kind of neat, offering champion run, work as this or that, not have to do house shows, etc. Or as a small promotion, just tell me how much I need to come up with up front. IF I messed up and paid someone too much, and now that makes you want more, just say so up front.<p> </p><p> I really feel they are way too picky when unemployed, still. It was addressed a bit last time, but really feel they should go down to 50%, and after being employed for a while start to build it back up.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Although true if they are solely wrestling. I think there should be some kind of financial rating for thenworkers, eg 1-10, somemofnthem could be earning lots of money outside wrestling and wouldn’t actually work for less than double what their ability/rep would require. </p><p> </p><p> If somebody has been unemployed a while, it’s likely they may have picked up another job</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawisericho Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 You know what I would love to see factored into contracts and personality? Personal wealth. Remember how in WresSpi you had expenses and could spend it on things? The idea would be the same for wrestlers in TEW. For instance, if CM Punk has millions and millions of dollars and he's pissed at Vince, he may not go back anytime soon. But if CM Punk is pissed and Vince and he's broke, he may soften his stance because of the realities of his financial situation. It could provide motives for contracts. Will Daniel Bryan accept less money because he just loves to wrestle and wants to work against certain opponents? Kevin Nash would work for anyone, just make sure you meet his demands. I'd love the wrestlers to act more like real humans with POVs and needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawisericho Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Although true if they are solely wrestling. I think there should be some kind of financial rating for thenworkers, eg 1-10, somemofnthem could be earning lots of money outside wrestling and wouldn’t actually work for less than double what their ability/rep would require. If somebody has been unemployed a while, it’s likely they may have picked up another job I didn't even read this before I posted. But yes, I agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donners Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 <p>With no pay rise requests for written deals, will workers be less likely to want long-term written deals? Seems exploitable if you can easily sign people to a 5-year deal on low money and have them stuck on that money as they rise to the main event.</p><p> </p><p> I also hope there will be more transparency/sense to the limits on wage offers. It’s frustrating to be making a $6 million profit each month, yet wind up losing a key worker because of a seemingly arbitrary limit placed on your wage offers.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Historian Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LoganRodzen" data-cite="LoganRodzen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm wondering if the PPA / Written money change has been affected with this new contract change. If anyone ever noticed, most top guys for a cult promotion would work shows for $2500-$3500 PPA. When you offer them a written deal, they usually want $20k or more. $3500 x 5 shows = $17,500<p> </p><p> I guess what I'm getting at... with this new feature and the way the old system worked, this would be extremely exploitable. I would just offer exclusive PPA deals to everyone and save the company quite a bit of money.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The reason the written contracts are more expensive is because, generally, they also make them available for house shows.</p><p> </p><p> So if you're running weekly TV and a monthly PPV at 5 events, but also running three house shows a week your numbers are different. That's 17 shows a month (12 house shows, 4 tv, one PPV). $3500 x 17 = $59,500 a month so the $20,000 is much more affordable. </p><p> </p><p> That's how I like to think of it anyway.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 You also have to consider it prevents them from working any outside dates and taking away extra money, in addition to just being the sum of what they would get from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Historian Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 With no pay rise requests for written deals, will workers be less likely to want long-term written deals? Seems exploitable if you can easily sign people to a 5-year deal on low money and have them stuck on that money as they rise to the main event. I also hope there will be more transparency/sense to the limits on wage offers. It’s frustrating to be making a $6 million profit each month, yet wind up losing a key worker because of a seemingly arbitrary limit placed on your wage offers. I'm very curious if the no pay requests during the life of the written deal means they will request more money in the deal than they did before to be exclusive. While I enjoyed the wage request increases, I also understand the logic (and welcome it) of not being able to request the raises as it can make renegotiations a big deal. In reality, in most cases, a guy agrees to a deal paying him a specific amount (say, $300,000 a year for 3 years). He doesn't get a raise until he gets to renegotiate his deal. So it could make the building of stars much more important. For instance, if I can lock up a budding star (say a KC Glenn) for $18,000 a month for five years -- it could be in my best interest to build around him because he's more cost effective than say a $40,000 a month Jack Bruce, but if in the last year of his deal, I'm worried about what the cost will make it prohibitive to sign him again, I could spend that year building up the next guy who is on a cost effective deal. I'm very excited about the possibilities of the deals. Written without being exclusive -- love it. Gives some protections that weren't available before. It could make regional companies able to hold onto talent [and allow better simulations of companies that should not be cult but have exclusive deals in real life.] I'm also curious if contract type plays into their availability. If I have a written non exclusive contract and all of the other deals are handshakes -- is my deal inherently more valuable to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justtxyank Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Donners" data-cite="Donners" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>With no pay rise requests for written deals, will workers be less likely to want long-term written deals? Seems exploitable if you can easily sign people to a 5-year deal on low money and have them stuck on that money as they rise to the main event.<p> </p><p> I also hope there will be more transparency/sense to the limits on wage offers. It’s frustrating to be making a $6 million profit each month, yet wind up losing a key worker because of a seemingly arbitrary limit placed on your wage offers.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> That's realistic though. The current system is exploitable by the workers and gives the owner of a company zero leverage. A smart system would put an evaluation mechanism in place for the ai to evaluate the risk/reward of signing a long term deal. If a young worker were dumb enough to sign a cheap 10 year guarantee contract that's his fault, but the idea that he could just renegotiate it 20 times over that 10 years to get more money while you have ZERO leverage to get out of the deal is outrageous.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganRodzen Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Historian" data-cite="Historian" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The reason the written contracts are more expensive is because, generally, they also make them available for house shows.<p> </p><p> So if you're running weekly TV and a monthly PPV at 5 events, but also running three house shows a week your numbers are different. That's 17 shows a month (12 house shows, 4 tv, one PPV). $3500 x 17 = $59,500 a month so the $20,000 is much more affordable. </p><p> </p><p> That's how I like to think of it anyway.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I honestly completely overlooked house shows for some reason. Thank you for your reply, it actually brought me back down to reality. I'm not really sure how I was forgetting that piece of the contracts. <img alt=":confused:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/confused.png.d4a8e6b6eab0c67698b911fb041c0ed1.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn michaels Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 The renegotiation feature was ridiculously ok in favor of the workers. Very few times will workers get away with such demands irl when on a written deal, but sometimes they will because the need to keep them happy is there. Nash and Hall were offered new and bigger contracts with WCW 1 week after they signed a massive deal with the promotion. As the system was before? No thanks. Removing it completely, also no thanks. More clauses? Seems like stating the obvious at this point, given how many times we asked for it in the past. It is what it is. But it seems like a nice good step in that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="justtxyank" data-cite="justtxyank" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That's realistic though. The current system is exploitable by the workers and gives the owner of a company zero leverage. A smart system would put an evaluation mechanism in place for the ai to evaluate the risk/reward of signing a long term deal. If a young worker were dumb enough to sign a cheap 10 year guarantee contract that's his fault, but the idea that he could just renegotiate it 20 times over that 10 years to get more money while you have ZERO leverage to get out of the deal is outrageous.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think the biggest problem is that currently workers only earn a base wage and nothing more for main events, per match, merch, PPV bonuses, etc.</p><p> </p><p> In NXT a young guy can still be on their rookie contract but if they’re pushed heavily they will be making tons in merch, and getting other incentives that makes their low downside not much of a big deal.</p><p> </p><p> The true use of a guaranteed contract is a Goldberg post WCW situation where you can get paid your base while doing absolutely nothing. Same with Hall and Nash leaving for WCW, they made a ton more because they had guarantees of better money, plus what they got from actually working the shows.</p><p> </p><p> In reality a written deal is a large downside <em>plus</em> whatever you get per appearance.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Historian Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LoganRodzen" data-cite="LoganRodzen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I honestly completely overlooked house shows for some reason. Thank you for your reply, it actually brought me back down to reality. I'm not really sure how I was forgetting that piece of the contracts. <img alt=":confused:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/confused.png.d4a8e6b6eab0c67698b911fb041c0ed1.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's very easy to over look! You're welcome though. The only reason it was actively on my mind is some reason contract negotiations for my diary promotion and being available for house shows being a major part of a signing.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Historian Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think the biggest problem is that currently workers only earn a base wage and nothing more for main events, per match, merch, PPV bonuses, etc.<p> </p><p> In NXT a young guy can still be on their rookie contract but if they’re pushed heavily they will be making tons in merch, and getting other incentives that makes their low downside not much of a big deal.</p><p> </p><p> The true use of a guaranteed contract is a Goldberg post WCW situation where you can get paid your base while doing absolutely nothing. Same with Hall and Nash leaving for WCW, they made a ton more because they had guarantees of better money, plus what they got from actually working the shows.</p><p> </p><p> In reality a written deal is a large downside <em>plus</em> whatever you get per appearance.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Absolutely! And I don't know if that's a system that is easily recreatable in a video game.</p><p> </p><p> I think people over look that most wrestlers are signing for guarantees -- which just means they will make 'at least' a certain amount, but usually make more. I thought I remembered previous games allowing for workes to ask for specific amounts of the merchandise and that being a part of the contract negotiations but I don't think it comes up anymore in 2016 [though there are the bonuses you can offer].</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChef Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 <p>For me, one problem in the game is that workers will sign however long of a contract they're offered. I'd like to see some of them only want to commit to say, a 3-year deal. Others may want a longer deal for security and so on. Hopefully the new personality traits will play a part in how long someone is prepared to sign for. </p><p> </p><p> It would also be cool if some workers simply refused to re-sign, maybe feeling they've accomplished all they can with a company and/or want a change.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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