The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[Bestia Negra]

I'm surprised how many people here liked the DoN main event. I thought that's the prime example why fans from the past don't watch WWE and don't watch wrestling in general anymore. Remember when AEW claimed they were pro wrestling, not sports entertainment? Well ... that match was many things but it sure as hell wasn't pro wrestling. Maybe I'm too old-school but I can't enjoy gimmicky comedy matches like that. It was fun at times but it isn't something I wanna see on a wrestling PPV.

 

MJF stole the show once again, if they don't fvck him up he'll be the face of the company for years to come. He's an old-school guy that knows what he's doing.

Perry was good too. I feel like Perry (just like Sammy G) will be a very solid worker, probably even main eventer once his body gets a bit bigger.

 

No other match really stood out to me, bang average at best. The funniest things were a) when Cage and Darby botched the finish of the Casino Ladder match when Darby had to be put on the ladder for a 2nd time and b) when they showed Tyson yawning while watching the Cody - Archer match

 

Cody - Archer in particular was disappointing just because that matchup had a pretty decent build-up over the past few weeks. The match itself felt like it was nothing special. Also kinda weird that Arn did the heel act and Jake basically didn't do anything. They probably wish they could take mulligan on that one.

 

 

imo the worst AEW PPV so far and that had nothing to do with no fans being there. The MJF match was the only thing worth buying the PPV unless you're into the clown show fiesta they put in the main event.

[Dalton]

I'm surprised how many people here liked the DoN main event. I thought that's the prime example why fans from the past don't watch WWE and don't watch wrestling in general anymore. Remember when AEW claimed they were pro wrestling, not sports entertainment? Well ... that match was many things but it sure as hell wasn't pro wrestling. Maybe I'm too old-school but I can't enjoy gimmicky comedy matches like that. It was fun at times but it isn't something I wanna see on a wrestling PPV.

 

I'm someone who enjoyed the main event, but I wholeheartedly understand why some wouldn't. The point you made is perfect for that argument.

 

Obviously, the match wouldn't have happened if not for the pandemic. The circumstances forced them to think outside-of-the-box to keep people talking about the company and I definitely was entertained. Again though, it's not exactly pro wrestling in the traditional sense. I wouldn't have been as entertained if this main evented a PPV with a full crowd.

 

I did enjoy the MJF/Jungle Boy match more, because I'm a sucker for old school storytelling like that.

[Mootinie]

Stadium Stampede was exactly what wrestling fans needed after a truly awful week in the sport.

[soxfan93]

Stadium Stampede was exactly what wrestling fans needed after a truly awful week in the sport.

 

No kidding, Stadium Stampede was awesome!

[milamber]

I disagree about Swole. I thought it put her over as a tough badass and the women's division needs all the character development they can get. If you need a kayfabe explanation for her not being knocked on her ass: the heels she was mouthing off to were too busy in important matches to worry about her. Wasting time on her when she's behind the barricade would have been dumb.

 

The humorous stuff in AEW like Orange Cassidy, Hardy/Damascus/Vanguard and Stadium Stampede isn't for everyone but at this point it should be expected. AEW was never going to be and never will be New Japan USA. I think it would have pigeon-holed them into a niche hardcore fanbase. Instead it's WWE/Impact style with WWE production budget and NXT work-rate, which targets a wider demographic. I'm glad they are leaning into the comedy and gimmickry in the Covid era to keep things interesting and entertaining. WWE did the same and it saved Wrestlemania from being one of the worst ever, IMO.

 

I think MJF vs Jungle Boy will go down as one of the best technical matches of 2020 to quickly be forgotten about.

[Makhai]

• Casino Ladder Match - Some good spots but slow and nonsensical. I don't rate Joey Janella at all but he was the only one showing any passion and drive to win. Kazarian was a botch machine. Darby was dumb. **
  
• MJF vs Jungle Boy - Great match. Jungle Boy needs a couple more facial expressions, but wonderful. My MOTN ****
  
• Cody vs Lance Archer - Enjoyable. Flat finish. Bored of the repeated Cross Rhodes at seeing 3 to Sabian/Janella etc. ***
  
• Penelope Ford vs Kris Statlander - Solid. Penelope is green as hell and looks lost between the moves, but this was my favorite Statlander performance since her original run. **
  
• Shawn Spears vs Dustin Rhodes - Short but fun. I like goofy Shawn Spears. ***
  
• Hikaru Shida vs Nyla Rose - I can't get over how weak Shida's knee strikes look. Also her kendo stick shots. It was well constructed and mostly well executed, so I'll give a generous ***
  
• Brodie Lee vs Jon Moxley - Brodie has gentle eyes and a man bun, so I can't take him too seriously. Good brawl. Good finish. Dumb gimmicked stage. ***
  
• Stadium Stampede - A fun comedy match. I liked the bar scene. I kind of wish magic wasn't real in AEW, which is surprising. I thought I'd like that kind of thing. ****
  

 

 

 

What was his hairline like? The wife and I have been assuming for weeks he glues that thing on because he's balding, Nick Jackson style.

 

 

 

I would have fired Big Swole on the spot. (EDIT: Hyperbole... but I wouldn't put her in any crowds ever again)

 

Three times she got in the heel's faces and dared them to hit her, when she knew they couldn't, so they had to back down and look like chumps. It's not so bad doing it to Nyla, because there could be a program there. But Archer? You're punking out Cody's big monster? When you're in the crowd and you're on the payroll it's your job to enhance the match. She instead tried to get herself over at the expense of the action in the ring. To be fair, that's what real modern fans seem to do, but it actively makes your team mates look worse.

 

 

Absolutely nothing would have stopped Nya from decking Swole if she needed to, And she should have, would have given them both something to build off of when the match was over. The Archer thing was a bit far though. It's Archers' fault for not patting her on the head or dismissing her in a more direct way. Her job is to bring the energy and it's his to react to it. These are not paying customers. You can interact with them in ways you can't with jabronio fans. You can't go too far with it. But there are opportunities here that you can take a few liberties with and if she wants to act like that you can put her in her place. This is another great example of why Archer as a killer heel makes negative sense to me and without Jake he'd be a laughing stock in this role, IMO.

[Self]

There's a disconnect with Archer. He comes out and flattens a guy, trying to present the idea of a crazy monster who will destroy anyone... but he won't hit Big Swole or Austin Gunn when they get in his face? It rubs into the viewer's face that he can only hurt plants in planned spots. Granted, the same thing will happen when real fans get back into venues. The heels will go outside and whip the babyface into the barricade (as is tradition in AEW) get into a fan's face... and the fan will smile, unafraid. The monster heel as a concept is dead.

 

I could tell Brodie & Archer not to go outside the ring where they'll be exposed, but that feels like it's removing a big chunk of every AEW wrestler's arsenal.

 

So I don't blame Big Swole or Austin Gunn (I'll include him, he's generally a good fake fan but does this too) for acting like typical smarks, but when you're paid to be a background extra, try enhancing the match. Don't expose your co-workers. Don't pretend to be tough when you know the guy isn't going to hit you.

[milamber]

AEW graphics department doing fantastic work as usual.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jaysin]

Very good follow up to Double or Nothing.

 

Looking forward to the eventual FTR clashes with the Young Bucks and hopefully Santana/Ortiz at some point.

 

Now if only the Crist Brothers and Josh Alexander/Ethan Page would jump ship.

[milamber]

- "Wow, that's a lot of shirts!"

- Private Party & Janela vs Spot Monkey Matt & Young Bucks was good. I liked that they accidentally got Butcher & Blade involved. Holy crap... I wasn't expecting FTR yet!

- Mox on commentary. Solid squash for Cage. Taz promo. Perfect segment to kick this feud off.

- Dr. Britt with 2 assistants and pyro. Segment went on a bit long but it was funny and set up future feuds. Aubrey Edwards is evil [face_shock]

- OC better watch himself.

- Jaynes vs Shida was fun. I like that a Falcon Arrow can beat a lesser opponent in AEW. Jaynes should be signed.

- LOL Kenny and Page.

- Cody doing the Cena open challenge is how I hoped they would book the title, although it made the Battle Royale seem pointless.

- Sabian & Havoc vs SCU was good. Huge win for the heels.

- Battle Royale was solid. The highlight was teasing an MJF/Wardlow break-up and OC and Jungle Boy being the final 2. Looking forward to Jungle Boy vs Cody.

- Throwing around the unwanted merch, Hager poetry and the "Hit Me Up" mobile were funny. Deep dive into WWE territory to set up Jericho vs Tyson. The posse showdown and brawl made me think of Impact when they used to bring in MMA stars. I don't know who any of the entourage guys are so it flat for me.

 

One of the weaker shows of 2020. Some decent storytelling but nothing can't-miss in the way of matches.

[Jaysin]

Not gonna lie, I never expected a Cody vs Jungle Boy match, but it has me super excited. If Jungle Boy can stay healthy and keeps his head on straight he could be a breakout star for AEW.

 

I miss NWA Power, but AEW has really stepped up their game since the pandemic started.

[Sco xY2Jx]

I love the fact that AEW aren't holding off on the debuts just because there isn't an audience. Like the 'pops' for Broken Matt, Brodie and FTR debuting would've been tremendous but they're still pumping out quality content and not hsong back despite the lack of audience.

Props to them for that.

The product is still hot! The talent roster is deep and incredibly versatile. It's an exciting time to be an AEW fan! The first live show back with an audience is going to be exceptional!

[Kijar]

So excited to see The Revival actually wrestle, and really tear it up with these teams. I know they will bring a bit of levity to the tag team division that is predominantly lightweight spot guys (which is my favorite kind of wrestling, don't get me wrong). They will ground things and people will love them for the change of pace, imo

 

Speaking of, AEW was hammered for the lack of heavyweights in the past (when we had just Dustin, Hager, Luchasaurus, and Uno).. now, I'm looking at these three big additions in Brian Cage, Lance Archer, and Brodie Lee now that the dust has settled a bit and I'm thrilled for the match-ups we can see in AEW at this point. Say what you will about the lengthy quality matches not being a good way to draw in new viewers, it is certainly a way to give me everything I want.

 

Also, just randomly curious who everyone is crushing on out of the women's division the most... I'm going to say Penny Ford for now, but Hikaru Shida looks even better with that belt around her waist.

[Dalton]

<p>I was talking to a friend about how we think the Hangman/Omega story will play out. I don't necessarily think this will happen, but a man can dream!</p><p> </p><p>

Not sure how the timeline would work out regarding PPVs and everything. Anyway, here's my fantasy:</p><p> </p><p>

* Omega and Page lose the titles to FTR at some point. Omega turns on Page and the Elite is shattered. Not a civil war, just basically dissolved. Everyone goes their own way.</p><p> </p><p>

* The Bucks win the titles from FTR in a dream match.</p><p> </p><p>

* Omega and Hangman have a blow off match with Omega going over and becoming #1 contender for the title.</p><p> </p><p>

* Omega wins the title, probably from Mox to redeem his loss in their feud.</p><p> </p><p>

* Hangman climbs back up the rankings and becomes the #1 contender.</p><p> </p><p>

* Omega continuously is a dick to everyone. Basically The Cleaner.</p><p> </p><p>

* Hangman finally becomes the top guy by defeating Omega clean for the title. Immediately after the match, Omega breaks down in the ring. Lights dim, music plays, out comes Kota Ibushi. They stare at each other before embracing and crying, like the last time they reunited. Omega realizes he was such a dick and is clearly remorseful. Hangman reenters the ring, Omega is pissed for a second before Ibushi calms him down by being a mediator. Omega and Hangman embrace and all is good between them! Hangman is the champion and the Golden Lovers are back.</p><p> </p><p>

* On the next Dynamite, the Golden Lovers are cutting a promo when the Bucks come out and talk about the Elite being strong again and they'd love to include Ibushi because he means so much to Omega. Swerve, they turn by superkicking the Lovers.</p><p> </p><p>

* Young Bucks vs. Golden Lovers for tag titles. Unsure of winner.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

I'd like to hear everyone else's fantasy booking about this story as well! Honestly, I think there's a real chance of my idea coming true up until the Ibushi part, meaning the story would end with Hangman becoming champion.</p>

[Jaysin]

I'd love for Ibushi to join AEW since I don't have the funds for New Japan World anymore.

[milamber]

Tully with a promo of the year contender

 

[Jaysin]

Dynamite wasn't the strongest show, but Cody vs Jungle Boy delivered. FTR's sit down interview was also good.

 

I might be in the minority, but I hope we end up getting Jericho vs Tyson. Tyson was my favorite boxer when I was a kid and Jericho is one of my all time favorites so the pairing just excites me. Seems like Tyson's involvement in AEW is getting some mainstream press though so good for AEW.

 

Little bummed that Cody is defending against the dude from Private Party next week. I enjoy Private Party and Cody is one of my favorite modern workers, but the match up just isn't appealing to me. I'm sure it'll be a fine match though.

 

Can't wait for July 15th when the WWE cast offs are free to sign wherever they want.

 

Hoping Rusev joins the singles division and Hawkins/Ryder and Gallows/Anderson join the already stacked tag division.

 

I do hope that Jimmy Havoc is never near a title match again. He looks like Hot Topic threw up.

[milamber]

- Sabian & Havoc vs Hangman & Omega © was great. The Fyter Fest title match could steal the show.

- Shawn Dean on Dynamite is a nice promotion even if he did get destroyed by Cage. He took a lot of big moves. Good promo from Taz.

- I wonder who Archer will target next. Hardy mentoring the Private Party would be cool.

- Sammy with his scooter singing Judas LOL. Cabana vs Jericho was good. OC is the baddest mofo on the planet! I want OC vs Sammy at Fyter Fest.

- Britt vignettes are always fun. Role's Royce LOL.

- Swole vs Nyla was good. Statlander will have to beat Nyla soon or she'll be getting rematches with Shida for the rest of the year based on the rankings.

- Darby super intense. Loved the FTR interview. Smart booking to slow build the Young Bucks match.

- Jungle Boy vs Cody © was MOTN. You know how much Cody respects his opponent by whether there's blood involved. Jungle Boy finally got some better looking trunks. I hope he and MJF have a career-spanning rivarly.

 

Great show. Enjoyed every match and segment.

 

[BlueStar]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dalton" data-cite="Dalton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I was talking to a friend about how we think the Hangman/Omega story will play out. I don't necessarily think this will happen, but a man can dream!<p> </p><p> Not sure how the timeline would work out regarding PPVs and everything. Anyway, here's my fantasy:</p><p> </p><p> * Omega and Page lose the titles to FTR at some point. Omega turns on Page and the Elite is shattered. Not a civil war, just basically dissolved. Everyone goes their own way.</p><p> <strong>Omega retires, never to be seen on TV again. The Old Bucks job to everyone else.</strong></p><p><strong> </strong></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Fixed in my dream storyline.</p>

[Dalton]

Fixed in my dream storyline.

 

Take it back before I give you a V-Trigger

 

Here's a few thoughts about AEW that I want to rattle off incoherently:

 

I've never been in the camp of "he sucks in AEW, New Japan Kenny was so much better!" While New Japan Kenny was freakin awesome, AEW Kenny has been good as well. Not AS good, but pretty close. But that might be just because I love the NJPW in ring style.

 

That being said, I do believe Kenny should be the Ace, or one of the aces if they go that route. Some will say Hangman, and I do LOVE Hangman, but Kenny Omega IMO could be the face of the company as it grows bigger and bigger. His flashy in ring style and exaggerated movements are what could bring in more and more people. A lot of people hate those stupid faces he makes sometimes, myself included, but it goes without saying that they work with a wider audience.

 

The way I see it, Kenny and Hangman should be a modified 2020 version of Rock and Austin. Hangman is the People's Champion, while Kenny is AEW's Champion, if that makes sense. I know Cody exists, but I'll get to that in a second.

 

Where does this leave the rest of the main event scene? Well, this may be unpopular, but when fans come back, it MIGHT be time for Cody to turn heel. He's subtly acting more and more heelish over the last few weeks, especially with Jungle Boy. I think there's a need for one more top heel, and Cody can fill it. He's getting big pops right now, but that can EASILY transition into boos.

 

PAC is another heel that can deliver top matches with anyone and is awesome on the mic. Maybe a short program with Moxley after Fyter Fest?

 

Moxley is a guy that I have no clue what to do with in this scenario. He's easily the most recognizable face in the company and has been a great champion thus far. He literally cannot turn heel because he will not get booed. I would guess a nontitle feud with someone before transitioning back into the title scene is most likely. The only two I can see him losing the title to are Kenny or Hangman.

 

Jericho can fit into any program from midcard to world title. He's the best "plug and play" talent on the roster. My wish is for Santana and Ortiz to split from the Inner Circle at some point next year and feud with Le Sex Gods. P&P have awesome potential as a babyface tag team. Santana's promo against Mox after the key to the eye was one of the best promos on Dynamite yet.

 

I could totally see a MJF/Darby Allin feud for a good 4-5 months also. Any pairing between MJF/Darby/Jungle Boy/Guevara. The four future stars.

 

I'd love to see someone IMPORTANT join the Dark Order to give the group an actual feud. So far, everyone has turned them down. I still think one of SCU (Daniels) should've joined before eventually being "redeemed." I suppose it wasn't possible without the Exalted One being revealed yet, but I digress. Someone from some team has to turn in order to give the group any sort of credibility. Jobbers turning isn't cutting it. Even if someone like Marko Stunt flips ("I'm so tired of getting beat up week after week and you two are never there until after they hurt me!") so the Jurassic Express has to bring back their friend, it's still a good story.

 

 

 

 

 

.....Actually, one guy I'd love to see turn heel and join the Dark Order is Austin Gunn. He's been in the crowd with his father every week so his face is recognizable but still nothing has happened with him. This gives a storyline to a young green talent in Austin Gunn while still protecting him. He doesn't have to have singles matches since he'll team with someone in the Dark Order, he doesn't have to talk because he has Brodie Lee and Uno. It gives Billy Gunn one last run in a major company, in a storyline that I can almost guarantee he would love to do. After decades of service to pro wrestling, his final storyline will be saving his brainwashed son from an evil group. It gives Billy screentime, but more importantly, it will give his son screentime with the culmination of the story being a reunion between father & son. Book it.

[soxfan93]

I'd love to see someone IMPORTANT join the Dark Order to give the group an actual feud. So far, everyone has turned them down. I still think one of SCU (Daniels) should've joined before eventually being "redeemed." I suppose it wasn't possible without the Exalted One being revealed yet, but I digress. Someone from some team has to turn in order to give the group any sort of credibility. Jobbers turning isn't cutting it. Even if someone like Marko Stunt flips ("I'm so tired of getting beat up week after week and you two are never there until after they hurt me!") so the Jurassic Express has to bring back their friend, it's still a good story.

 

This would be such good television.

[Dalton]

This would be such good television.

 

I personally think my Austin Gunn idea is better than my Marko one, but Marko could definitely work as well!

[cappyboy]

I personally think my Austin Gunn idea is better than my Marko one, but Marko could definitely work as well!

 

The one issue I might have with your Austin Gunn idea, good as it sounded, is that nobody seems to want to do that much with him. RoH had him in last year's Top Prospect Tournament and then failed to bring him in a la past tourney losers like Beer City Bruiser and Dalton Castle. And now AEW seems to see him most fit to be a crowd extra during the pandemic. Granted he and his dad have wrestled on Dark a couple times but nothing that would stand out. It almost feels like companies with any visibility are afraid to run with him for some reason.

[Self]

Until someone joins the Dark Order and starts winning, the whole stable means very little.

 

I liked Cody vs Jungle Boy, but the table spot was dumb. They got up incredibly quickly and went to the finish, which was just a wrestling move. No drama. No purpose. Just a bump to be a bump.

 

Get Spears away from Tully. Spears is a goofy guy. Not a serious threat.

 

Bryan Cage does my favourite squashes. He doesn't just hit one clothesline and make mean faces. He swarms them immediately.

[Dalton]

The one issue I might have with your Austin Gunn idea, good as it sounded, is that nobody seems to want to do that much with him. RoH had him in last year's Top Prospect Tournament and then failed to bring him in a la past tourney losers like Beer City Bruiser and Dalton Castle. And now AEW seems to see him most fit to be a crowd extra during the pandemic. Granted he and his dad have wrestled on Dark a couple times but nothing that would stand out. It almost feels like companies with any visibility are afraid to run with him for some reason.

 

I totally and wholly understand what you're saying, BUT that is exactly WHY I think it would be a great story. He is currently unknown other than being Billy Gunn's son. Bring him into the Dark Order, he is just a son of a legend manipulated into joining a bad group. With someone famous like Billy trying to save him, the fans will become sympathetic for him and root for him to be saved.

 

I think it will instantly make him a sympathetic babyface after he and Billy reunite. He won't become a main eventer by any stretch, but I think it will cause him to get a pop and be worth putting on TV.

 

That is, unless there is something behind the scenes that is holding him back like you're implying. I looked at his social medias and nothing seems to indicate a bad personality. VERY upbeat.

 

Who knows though, I am putting way too much effort into him right now