The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[CQI13]

If TK is not joking, he comes across as unhinged. If he is joking, this is peak Vince Russo making jokes that only a small percentage of the audience even gets.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

Love what I'm seeing from Skye Blue's gimmick so far.

Skye's kicks do give her a real intimidating aura. They're really believable and stiff -- sounded like she hit Emi Sakura with a brick each time to foot landed.

She doesn't have to turn heel to be feared, but I would look forward to a her heel run.

Edited October 14, 2023 by ColdBloodedSausageMaker

[Self]

My fantasy booking changes to 'save' companies are usually the same. 

- Give each show a unique identity, aided by a soft brand split. The best thing about early Collision to me, was Andrade. He was featured every week, and was exclusive to Collision. If I only watched wrestling on Saturday, I got to see him consistently. If I loved Andrade, I only had to watch Saturday to get his entire story. So each show would have exclusive 5-10 acts, with mostly undercard or cameo acts floating around.

- I'd extend that to the secondary belts. The 6-man tag team titles, the champions, the challengers, and the stories, would only be on Rampage (for example). Love Lucha clusters? You want Rampage. One of the Women's belts would be exclusive to Collision, aided by that show being 50% women's matches. Love women's wrestling? Collision is the show for you. 

- Drop the Tertiary titles. Excess belts are a lazy man's booking crutch. 

- Rip off the G1 tournament, albeit retooled for television. My TEW version is typically 8 guys I want to feature, everyone fights everyone over 12-13 weeks. Points system. 10 minute time limits. Loser gets fired. Winner gets something bigger than a title shot (not a good prize). Everyone gets a journey and a story and (short) promos to talk about matches, performances, tactics. Taz and Big Show as pundits talking about how Ricky Starks only needs a draw this week to retain his lead, Hangman Page should probably try to work on his submissions to earn some extra bonus points, and Buddy Murphy should stop getting disqualified because he's really close to coming in last. 

- Hire a woman to lead booking the women's division. Not because they would have better ideas, but because it would be their top priority. They would (probably) have a deeper interest than a typical booker/ex-wrestler. Like having someone who spent 90% of his career in a tag team booking the tag division. 

 

Although if you went back in time 10 years, I'd probably have the same ideas for TNA. I never thought AEW would be this much of a success just doing what they're doing, and I was wrong. They are fine. 

[milamber]

ROH women's division was cooking this week. Athena, Billie and Martinez all won matches plus we got Willow vs Hirsch. Billie & Lexy had a backstage segment with Martinez & Diamante who later attacked Athena & Billie. All in a 1.5hr show with no dumb gender restrictions. I wonder if Maria is finally being utilized in a creative capacity.

Edited October 14, 2023 by milamber

[aXminster]

The main event was great until the screwy finish. No reason for that (again). Multiple ref distractions every week.

The rest of the show felt like a longer Rampage though. No Andrade, no HoB, Miro only got a video promo. I liked it more when Collision had a slower pacing and segments had time to breathe.

[The Blonde Bomber]

1 hour ago, aXminster said:

The main event was great until the screwy finish. No reason for that (again). Multiple ref distractions every week.

The rest of the show felt like a longer Rampage though. No Andrade, no HoB, Miro only got a video promo. I liked it more when Collision had a slower pacing and segments had time to breathe.

They need to add more creativity to match finishes. But to do that they need more rules to have creative finishes. Wrestling has booked themselves into a corner. Having such lax rules means doing creative exciting finishes becomes harder.

[milamber]

- Front-loading the show with top talent. FITE feed was awful so I had to watch the segment on Youtube.

- Joe (c) vs Mack was good.

- Andretti could use a mouthpiece. CJ should manage Keith Lee to setup a BEEF match with Miro.

- Juice vs Daniels was solid.

- Fletcher vs Boulder was a solid squash.

- Oral Sessions lol.

- Skye vs Statlander (c) was good. Be careful Willow.

- They need to hurry up and get LFI back in the ring.

- Lee vs Turbo was an OK squash.

- CMLL & Mistico hype package.

- Danielson vs Christian (c) was my MOTN. PPV quality match. Slick Ricky. Brawl!

[milamber]

11 hours ago, aXminster said:

The main event was great until the screwy finish. No reason for that (again). Multiple ref distractions every week.

The rest of the show felt like a longer Rampage though. No Andrade, no HoB, Miro only got a video promo. I liked it more when Collision had a slower pacing and segments had time to breathe.

 

Kommander vs Cage was postponed which might have thrown off the pacing a bit. I'm assuming Lee's quick squash was added after that and the main event went a bit longer.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

On 10/14/2023 at 2:00 AM, Self said:

My fantasy booking changes to 'save' companies are usually the same. 

- Give each show a unique identity, aided by a soft brand split. The best thing about early Collision to me, was Andrade. He was featured every week, and was exclusive to Collision. If I only watched wrestling on Saturday, I got to see him consistently. If I loved Andrade, I only had to watch Saturday to get his entire story. So each show would have exclusive 5-10 acts, with mostly undercard or cameo acts floating around.

- I'd extend that to the secondary belts. The 6-man tag team titles, the champions, the challengers, and the stories, would only be on Rampage (for example). Love Lucha clusters? You want Rampage. One of the Women's belts would be exclusive to Collision, aided by that show being 50% women's matches. Love women's wrestling? Collision is the show for you. 

- Drop the Tertiary titles. Excess belts are a lazy man's booking crutch. 

- Rip off the G1 tournament, albeit retooled for television. My TEW version is typically 8 guys I want to feature, everyone fights everyone over 12-13 weeks. Points system. 10 minute time limits. Loser gets fired. Winner gets something bigger than a title shot (not a good prize). Everyone gets a journey and a story and (short) promos to talk about matches, performances, tactics. Taz and Big Show as pundits talking about how Ricky Starks only needs a draw this week to retain his lead, Hangman Page should probably try to work on his submissions to earn some extra bonus points, and Buddy Murphy should stop getting disqualified because he's really close to coming in last.

Agree with most the stuff here. All relatively simple, common sense changes Tony could make.

On 10/14/2023 at 2:00 AM, Self said:

Although if you went back in time 10 years, I'd probably have the same ideas for TNA. I never thought AEW would be this much of a success just doing what they're doing, and I was wrong. They are fine. 

I don't have that level of confidence in AEW. Given the resources the company has, I feel they should be doing better. Tony recently has made some questionable decisions that could really hurt the company down the line.

I'm content with how the company has performed, but I'm worried about the direction AEW is heading in right now for a number of reasons. Tony has struggled with a lot of the same pitfalls that Dixie Carter did with TNA.

There seems to be some real problems with backstage politics and personal issues in AEW that have led to some bad press. Many former prominent people in the business seem very worried with Tony's inability to distinguish between a personal and professional relationship. It's rare to see Bischoff, Cornette and Vince Russo agree on anything, but all three have expressed major concerns over Tony's professionalism with talent.

Over the last year, AEW has made some really questionable booking decisions. Tony keeps putting the belt on guys who are hurt, unreliable or both. He's done this with three champions in a little over a year.

Moxley wasn't under contract when he won the championship in 2022, Punk was unreliable and hurt when he won the belt from Moxley (and immediately got injured), and current champion MJF's contract expires in January. He needs to tie guys down to long-term deals before giving them the world title.

Tony's in a situation right now where his top star could show up with a competitor and claim to be the "real" AEW Champion due to these continued decisions. And it could happen again with MJF in January 2024.

Other than MJF, AEW hasn't pushed home-grown talent to the main event. As a result, their main stars are older, banged up former WWE Talent. Two of the last three champions have dropped a title due to injury in a little over a year. The #1 Contender, Adam Cole, can't defend his ROH tag title due to injury. The fans are solidly behind guys like MJF, Powerhouse Hobbs, Ricky Starks and Wardlow, but excluding MJF, those guys haven't yet had a run on top.

Tony needs to avoid making these common-sense mistakes in the future. Particularly, he needs to make sure reliable talent under contract are on top. You don't to repeat other companies' mistakes like Flair taking the WCW World title to WWF. You don't want the champion vacating the World Title due to injury. Tony keeps risking those nightmare situations.

Edited October 15, 2023 by ColdBloodedSausageMaker

[hollywoodshinebox]

And stop with the jobber beatdowns that are most of AEW shows nowadays. No reason to watch AEW when all that matters are PPVs and some segments that are on youtube. Why do I want to see Statlander beat Skye Blue? Why do I want to see Kyle Fletcher, of all people, beatdown some jobber? Why do I want to see Joe, with all due respect, beatdown Willie Mac? And so on. No stakes at all all the time. Even boxing, which is mainly focused on the ME, can have better undercards than AEW.

They mainly need to sort that out and bring better stories to talent. It's like they didn't understand at all why OC's reign was something else, because he really did beat good wrestlers most of the time, there were stakes in it.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Big Roguey
swearing

[aXminster]

6 hours ago, milamber said:

 

Kommander vs Cage was postponed which might have thrown off the pacing a bit. I'm assuming Lee's quick squash was added after that and the main event went a bit longer.

The pacing has been different from the earlier Collisions for a few weeks now. It's feeling more Dynamite-y with the rushed matches and segments. The main event last night got quite some time which is always nice. Dynamite's main events always get from 12 to 15 minutes while Collision usually has 20+ minutes.

[Big Roguey]

Just a reminder for the umpteenth time that you can make points on here about AEW or another topic without swearing in the posts, please remember to read the rules.

[Matt_Black]

5 hours ago, ColdBloodedSausageMaker said:

Other than MJF, AEW hasn't pushed home-grown talent to the main event.

?!? Darby Allin main evented the last PPV. Adam Page is a former World Champion. Criticisms of the women's division aside, most, if not all, of the women's matches that have main evented TV events have featured the "homegrowns". The Acclaimed are arguably the most over stable in AEW. To even suggest that AEW and Tony Khan are relying on older talents from other companies is specious at best.

[guyver3]

51 minutes ago, Matt_Black said:

?!? Darby Allin main evented the last PPV. Adam Page is a former World Champion. Criticisms of the women's division aside, most, if not all, of the women's matches that have main evented TV events have featured the "homegrowns". The Acclaimed are arguably the most over stable in AEW. To even suggest that AEW and Tony Khan are relying on older talents from other companies is specious at best.

Apologies if there’s sarcasm in this post that I’m missing but out of curiosity I looked up all the AEW ppvs to look at their main events. There are more main events that have entirely ex WWE guys then there are main events with no ex WWE guys. Tony hires pretty much anyone with a name from the E just like WCW and TNA before him which is not in and of itself a bad thing. With the exception of Omega vs Page every main event has had a former E guy so I think saying Tony is relying on older talent from other companies is spot on. 

[milamber]

I'm pretty sure MJF already signed a new contract in secret. The bidding war of 2024 was always a storyline. MJF's title reign just started a bit earlier than planned because they had to strip Punk, so now it's being dragged out until next year.

Edited October 16, 2023 by milamber

[Matt_Black]

1 hour ago, guyver3 said:

 With the exception of Omega vs Page every main event has had a former E guy so I think saying Tony is relying on older talent from other companies is spot on. 

Unless we're counting MJF as an ex-WWE guy, then you're forgetting the 4 pillars fatal 4-way from earlier this year. I'm sure there are other matches too.

Regardless, I think a lot of this, "Oh, but they're from another company" is just modern internet echo chamber hype. Back in the day, were WCW fans really upset that the "ex-WWE guy" Ricky Steamboat came in and started tearing down the house with Flair? Maybe a few, but I can't imagine many were upset. If a guy can still work and still draw money, what's the problem?

[aXminster]

It's hard not to have ex-WWE guys when they had a monopoly in the business for almost 20 years. AEW is yet to turn 5.

I'd have a problem if they signed people just because they were in WWE, like TNA did back then.

[guyver3]

21 minutes ago, Matt_Black said:

Unless we're counting MJF as an ex-WWE guy, then you're forgetting the 4 pillars fatal 4-way from earlier this year. I'm sure there are other matches too.

Regardless, I think a lot of this, "Oh, but they're from another company" is just modern internet echo chamber hype. Back in the day, were WCW fans really upset that the "ex-WWE guy" Ricky Steamboat came in and started tearing down the house with Flair? Maybe a few, but I can't imagine many were upset. If a guy can still work and still draw money, what's the problem?

4 pillars match wasn’t the main event though anarchy in the arena was. And like I said before Tony is doing what other did before him and will do after him which again is not in and of itself a bad thing. 

[hollywoodshinebox]

11 hours ago, Big Roguey said:

Just a reminder for the umpteenth time that you can make points on here about AEW or another topic without swearing in the posts, please remember to read the rules.

Oh sorry, didn't know.

_______

Anw, I don't think the homegrown talent part is a problem at all. Would it be better if there was homegrown talent? Yes, but that's about it.

Edited October 16, 2023 by hollywoodshinebox

[The Blonde Bomber]

11 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

Unless we're counting MJF as an ex-WWE guy, then you're forgetting the 4 pillars fatal 4-way from earlier this year. I'm sure there are other matches too.

Regardless, I think a lot of this, "Oh, but they're from another company" is just modern internet echo chamber hype. Back in the day, were WCW fans really upset that the "ex-WWE guy" Ricky Steamboat came in and started tearing down the house with Flair? Maybe a few, but I can't imagine many were upset. If a guy can still work and still draw money, what's the problem?

This is just to correct the record. Steamboat was a Crockett guy before going to WWF.

[Jaysin]

I just think it's messed up that people expect former WWE talents not to work elsewhere. They need to pay their bills too. Are they supposed to retire when WWE doesn't want/need them?

[Dalton]

14 hours ago, guyver3 said:

Apologies if there’s sarcasm in this post that I’m missing but out of curiosity I looked up all the AEW ppvs to look at their main events. There are more main events that have entirely ex WWE guys then there are main events with no ex WWE guys. Tony hires pretty much anyone with a name from the E just like WCW and TNA before him which is not in and of itself a bad thing. With the exception of Omega vs Page every main event has had a former E guy so I think saying Tony is relying on older talent from other companies is spot on. 

There has been one major wrestling company in the US since 2001, of course most talented wrestlers had a stint there. That's just how it is. AEW/Tony Khan shouldn't hire and have some of the best wrestlers in the world at the top of the card because of where they worked previously? I really don't understand that mindset.

[Self]

Having the "best wrestlers" is only part of the puzzle. I think a good show also needs identity and freshness. New things that you don't get from having a bunch of ex-WWE guys. 

I remember buying my first wrestling magazine when I was a teenager and learning about ECW. It had a host of (almost entirely) new characters that I was fascinated by, and I loved learning about the promotion, even before I discovered the VHS tapes where I could actually watch it. It was similar when I discovered things like PWG, Dragon Gate. Hell, the TNA X-Division was so much more interesting to me than their main roster. Not just because of flipz (although yes, the flipz were cool) but because of the new cast. 

Some ex-WWE talent are needed at this level, sure. And on a case-by-case basic certain wrestlers could be awesome in a new environment. But I don't think being 'great' is everything, and I don't think everyone's entitled to a forever job in wrestling just because they were on RAW for a few years.

No one in particular strikes me as a bad hire, although... what have they done with Buddy Matthews? He's amazing. If I watched more regular he'd likely be my favourite. But has he sold any tickets or done anything that Joe Indy couldn't have done 80% as well? 

[Dawn]

On 10/12/2023 at 3:02 PM, Jaysin said:

Hire someone like Lance Storm or Gail Kim (when their Impact contracts are up) to book the women's division. Let Jimmy Jacobs and Bryan have more control over Collision and TK and Jacobs focus on Dynamite. Jacobs is a creative enough guy to be on both shows and having him on both would allow continuity between the shows. TK is a creative guy, he just needs someone to help focus him. I believe Jacobs can be that guy. 

I still wish TK could work out some sort of deal to get Scott D'Amore as a booker in AEW in some capacity. He does wonders with the scraps he's given in Impact, imagine what he could do with the stars and talents AEW has? 

Did WWE ever rehire Gabe? Maybe bring him in to bolster the creative department? 

Late but I believe no one actually replied to your question, Gabe is still working for WWE.

[Jaysin]

28 minutes ago, Dawn said:

Late but I believe no one actually replied to your question, Gabe is still working for WWE.

Interesting. Gabe probably doesn't remember me, but back in the early MySpace and Facebook days, he would answer any booking or creative related question I had. His answers were typically short, but always helpful. I guess I'll always show a little bias to him for that.