The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[Self]

I really enjoyed the main event (Shawn Spears is becoming a favorite) and the opener was good. .. Just good. I like how they're having long matches with guys just working back and forth, adapting to the situation. Trent is solid, but something just doesn't quite click for me.

 

Lot of green on the show, which is to be expected. Jayyy has a good look and a couple of nice moves, but was being made to work wayyy too complex a match. So many pointless, running spots. Dark Order goofs looked similarly green, but Dustin is just so smooth that he got them through it.

 

They need to send out even more cameras to let guys cut promos/shoot segments from their homes, to continue stories and explore their characters. Jericho. Bucks. Moxley. They got a chance to talk and show off their lives. Let's see Hangman. Let's see PAC. Give Sonny Kiss a camera and see what he comes up with.

[Slim Jim]

So do people actually think Matt Hardy is good at cutting promos or do they enjoy the Broken Matt thing ironically? They’re so forced, it’s like he’s an unbearable parody of a character he’s seen in a bad horror film. And they’re so clunky; they remind me of the awkward ramblings from a bad efed character. Yet during his TNA run and now during his early AEW stuff, I see fans on Twitter going crazy as if he’s an all-time great. Just because he’s ditched his actual accent and randomly inverts language (hole of ass, etc.) doesn’t mean he’s suddenly some legendary promo guy.

 

I’m fairly sure I’ll be in the minority on this one because his schtick seems to have resonated hard with fans online at least but I’m at a loss for why people find it entertaining. (And that’s not a judgement on other people, plenty of things I like that I’m sure others find equally confusing)

[BHK1978]

So do people actually think Matt Hardy is good at cutting promos or do they enjoy the Broken Matt thing ironically? They’re so forced, it’s like he’s an unbearable parody of a character he’s seen in a bad horror film. And they’re so clunky; they remind me of the awkward ramblings from a bad efed character. Yet during his TNA run and now during his early AEW stuff, I see fans on Twitter going crazy as if he’s an all-time great. Just because he’s ditched his actual accent and randomly inverts language (hole of ass, etc.) doesn’t mean he’s suddenly some legendary promo guy.

 

I’m fairly sure I’ll be in the minority on this one because his schtick seems to have resonated hard with fans online at least but I’m at a loss for why people find it entertaining. (And that’s not a judgement on other people, plenty of things I like that I’m sure others find equally confusing)

 

For me when he first started doing it in TNA, I enjoyed it because of the novelty of it. I always liked Matt more than Jeff (I actually never liked Jeff) and so it was great to see him have the opportunity to break out of his brother's shadow and reinvent himself. That being said, it does wear thin after seeing it.

 

I think you might have hit the nail on the head when you said people might be enjoying it ironically. That seems to be a good portion of what the fan base does. How else can anyone explain the love of Orange Cassidy?

[Jaysin]

Orange Cassidy is entertaining as hell and a good worker.

 

That said, as a big fan of Broken Matt, it's been a rough start. I haven't enjoyed his segments nearly as much as I did in Impact or even as Woken Matt in WWE. Hoping it clicks sooner rather than later.

 

Also, I really hope Brodie Lee stops being a Vince McMahon parody soon. It's lame and doesn't fit him at all. Ideally I would have either out Brodie as Shawn Spears tag partner and let Tully do the talking or put Brodie as Jake Roberts's underling and have Archer as Shawn's partner.

 

Brodie just isn't strong on the mic and these lame videos are just detrimental to his character in my opinion.

[Questlove]

Orange Cassidy is entertaining as hell and a good worker.

 

That said, as a big fan of Broken Matt, it's been a rough start. I haven't enjoyed his segments nearly as much as I did in Impact or even as Woken Matt in WWE. Hoping it clicks sooner rather than later.

 

Also, I really hope Brodie Lee stops being a Vince McMahon parody soon. It's lame and doesn't fit him at all. Ideally I would have either out Brodie as Shawn Spears tag partner and let Tully do the talking or put Brodie as Jake Roberts's underling and have Archer as Shawn's partner.

 

Brodie just isn't strong on the mic and these lame videos are just detrimental to his character in my opinion.

 

Agree with everything you said here. I liked the first Vince parody, thought it was funny and fine as a one time thing, but it doesn't fit Brodie Lee at all in the long term and just comes across as super low rent.

 

That said, I do think he's okay on the mic but that would come across a lot better if he wasn't playing a parody character in his promos.

[Self]

So do people actually think Matt Hardy is good at cutting promos or do they enjoy the Broken Matt thing ironically? They’re so forced, it’s like he’s an unbearable parody of a character he’s seen in a bad horror film. And they’re so clunky; they remind me of the awkward ramblings from a bad efed character. Yet during his TNA run and now during his early AEW stuff, I see fans on Twitter going crazy as if he’s an all-time great. Just because he’s ditched his actual accent and randomly inverts language (hole of ass, etc.) doesn’t mean he’s suddenly some legendary promo guy.

 

I’m fairly sure I’ll be in the minority on this one because his schtick seems to have resonated hard with fans online at least but I’m at a loss for why people find it entertaining. (And that’s not a judgement on other people, plenty of things I like that I’m sure others find equally confusing)

 

I think I only ever saw the Final Deletion match/short film before any of this, and I saw it as a fun midcard comedy gimmick. A bizarre character doing random nonsense that's good for quoting and t-shirts. I liked it. And it helps that Matt Hardy had built a lot of good favour with years of hard work and lack of spotlight. That broke him. And now he's unleashing drones and playing violin with a Sweeney Todd haircut.

 

In the long segment he did with Jericho two weeks ago... it exposed some flaws. The inversion of words is repetitive. He does the same hand movements over and over again. He's putting a lot of importance into the lore of his character, and that's not what people found charming. It was the memes. The quotes. The random boat.

 

It would be like if Orange Cassidy was suddenly expected to be a main event threat and we really dug into why he is like he is. Orange is valuable in his place. Matt can be too. Just gotta find where it is.

[crownsy]

<p>I thought the revel and start was weak on Broekn Matt, but I've really enjoyed the last two promos between Jericho's 'RELEASE THE HOUNNNDSSS!" promo and last nights. I also declare sammy a false god <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

that said, yea it depends on where Matt settles. I think mid carder with trips to the upper mid card would be fine, I don't need to see him in a serious singles feud for the main belt at any point though. </p><p> </p><p>

but Broken matt Vs. Dark Order, Death Triangle, being the gate keeper for a younger act coming up ect? I'm in</p>

[milamber]

- I always look forward to Jake's weekly promo. Wrestlers ringside again.

- Loved Archer's hit-and-run and massive german release suplex. Le Champion not shy about namedropping New Japan.

- Dr. Britt vs Shida was good after a slow start. Britt got busted hard. Short but sweet promo after the match addressing the damage to her face. Enjoying this Jericho/Tony dynamic. Shaking babies and kissing hands!

- These hype videos are making Mox vs Hager feel like a PPV-level match. Bellator namedropped this time. So glad that giving the rub to another promotion isn't frowned upon in AEW.

- Shin'yū vs Best Friends was super fun. Those double moves from Kenny & Nak LOL. The pre-match segment was very BTE. DDT namedrop. Spears scouting Nakazawa ringside was a nice touch. Pull out a fork and cut a bitch LOL.

- Typical Matt Hardy promo. A match against Jericho at the Compound could be interesting.

- The Exalted One has an assistant now. He shouldn't be wrestling this often but I think Uno and Grayson are stuck in Canada. They need to use Silver and Reynolds more if they can.

- Spears vs Cody was good. Jericho dunking on the neck tat, dubbing Spears the Guardsrailman and going in hard on Pineapple Pete LOL.

 

Jericho's commentary was the highlight.

[milamber]

So do people actually think Matt Hardy is good at cutting promos or do they enjoy the Broken Matt thing ironically? They’re so forced, it’s like he’s an unbearable parody of a character he’s seen in a bad horror film. And they’re so clunky; they remind me of the awkward ramblings from a bad efed character. Yet during his TNA run and now during his early AEW stuff, I see fans on Twitter going crazy as if he’s an all-time great. Just because he’s ditched his actual accent and randomly inverts language (hole of ass, etc.) doesn’t mean he’s suddenly some legendary promo guy.

 

I’m fairly sure I’ll be in the minority on this one because his schtick seems to have resonated hard with fans online at least but I’m at a loss for why people find it entertaining. (And that’s not a judgement on other people, plenty of things I like that I’m sure others find equally confusing)

 

He's a fun character played by a creative guy but his cheesy voice and over-reliance on catchphrases get annoying in longer promos.

[BHK1978]

Orange Cassidy is entertaining as hell and a good worker.

 

The way I look at him is, if I a non-wrestling fan were to watch him they would probably roll their eyes and ask me, "Do you like this horsecrap?" No would be my reply but it is just my opinion I am not going to say anyone is wrong for disagreeing with me. Different strokes, for different folks. What you talkin about Willis (Nobody will probably get that dated reference.)?

 

I tend to agree with Jim Cornette when it comes to Orange Cassidy. It just makes wrestling and the fans of wrestling look hokey.

[milamber]

The way I look at him is, if I a non-wrestling fan were to watch him they would probably roll their eyes and ask me, "Do you like this horsecrap?" No would be my reply but it is just my opinion I am not going to say anyone is wrong for disagreeing with me. Different strokes, for different folks. What you talkin about Willis (Nobody will probably get that dated reference.)?

 

I tend to agree with Jim Cornette when it comes to Orange Cassidy. It just makes wrestling and the fans of wrestling look hokey.

 

What are Cornette's thoughts (or the general public's for that matter) on Undertaker then? Mainstream wrestling has had hokey elements for decades.

[Self]

What are Cornette's thoughts (or the general public's for that matter) on Undertaker then? Mainstream wrestling has had hokey elements for decades.

 

Undertaker gets a little leeway in Cornettes eyes, but only in that he's a big believable bad ass who could dress like that to intimidate and psych out his opponents. But the teleporting, lightning, buried alive cartoon nonsense? He hates that. Hated it then. Hates it now.

 

I can see where he's coming from. He made a lot of money in the 'realistic' NWA and that cant exist any more.

 

Personally I like magic and goofy stuff in wrestling, but I've long since given up the idea that what I like is the same thing as what's good for business. A lot of people aren't into silly. The audience for wrestling keeps narrowing. Correlation doesn't mean causation... but its something.

[Rone Rivendale]

Professional wrestling is a unique entity. What is good and what is bad is generally not decided by the people performing it but by the fans who watch it.

 

Lou Theisz, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, John Cena, Daniel Bryan, in the US, they changed wrestling forever in their own eras. Not because they were better than everyone else, but because they caught on with the fans. So other wrestlers began to imitate them to keep up. Lucha culture has their Era changers. Japan has theirs. Europe has theirs.

 

With most sports, or with most tv shows/movies, you get what you get. And you either like it or you hate it. It won't change anything. But in wrestling, what you support and what you reject changes what happens next. Maybe that's one of the things that makes it great.

[Self]

Watched Dynamite.

 

Baker vs Shida was really good by the end, but the first couple of minutes were training school atrocious. I wonder if because of the lack of crowd noise they couldn't talk to each other in the ring, because they seemed to be on completely different pages. Just rotten. It became 'fine' once Shida decided to sell and let Baker get some heat, and became really good once there was blood. Britt Baker is a natural heel (although far from a natural wrestler) and I can't believe anyone would ever have booked her as a babyface. Such a mean girl look.

 

Shida needs more facial expressions. She has mouth-wide-open-smiling, and mouth-wide-open-tired.

 

UFC Countdown special videos were good. Well executed but could have done with more content. Hager's wife is great. It adds an element to his character.

 

I enjoy Nakazawa's act, but he sure is clumsy and dangerous, isn't he?

 

Really liking Shawn Spears. I thought trying to recruit Nakazawa was a bit too undercard for him, but he's showing a lot more charisma when he's allowed to be a little more goofy.

[dvdWarrior]

Different strokes, for different folks. What you talkin about Willis (Nobody will probably get that dated reference.)?

 

I tend to agree with Jim Cornette when it comes to Orange Cassidy. It just makes wrestling and the fans of wrestling look hokey.

 

Oh, I get that dated reference, and I approve!

 

I find that I agree with Jim Cornette on a lot of things. Is it weird that I love Jim Cornette and AEW too? Some folks, including Jim himself, might say that's impossible, and yet... here I am.

 

As for Broken Matt... I thought it was corny when I first started seeing it in TNA/Impact. After a while, it kinda grew on me, and I came to enjoy it quite a lot, since it was something so very, very different from pretty much anything and everything else.

 

After a while, though, it kind of wore out for me, and I'm just not feeling it nearly as much as I used to. Maybe if he'd played it straight through from Impact to WWE and now AEW, and it had grown and evolved all along the way, I might think differently, but as it is, I think I'm kinda getting over it now.

 

Plus... I've always been one of those that gets a lot of fun and enjoyment out of the whole "let's pretend it's real" approach to watching something... and teleporting wrestlers can be a bridge too far.

 

I've always been a fan of the Hardys though, so there's only so far negative I can go on them.

 

[Blackman]

Baker vs Shida was really good by the end, but the first couple of minutes were training school atrocious.

 

I don't remember seeing the start, but the bleed event got some traction on the net so I watched that obviously. The ref/glove thing was interesting, but Cornette - who commented on this - was right in stating he was confused. Are they running a face/heel split? What the hell was that? It seemed Baker was the heel here but is getting screwed over (normally reserved for faces), also doesn't get to do the impro win that could've gotten her over much more after events like these.

 

Still can't grasp the women's division here. Whenever I want to give AEW a chance, this lackluster division is holding me back. I thought they wanted to go even further than WWE, but all I'm seeing is worse wrestling and a weird selection of talent.

[BHK1978]

Oh, I get that dated reference, and I approve!

 

I find that I agree with Jim Cornette on a lot of things. Is it weird that I love Jim Cornette and AEW too? Some folks, including Jim himself, might say that's impossible, and yet... here I am.

 

Dated references for the win!

 

I think you can agree with him and be a fan of AEW as well. I find myself agreeing with him on a lot of stuff but I also liked ECW and he was not a fan of that. I don't hate hardcore wresting either, though some of it has gone too far.

 

For me parts of AEW were always going to be tough for me to get into. Mainly because I have always disliked Kenny Omega and the Bucks.

 

Even before Jim was complaining about them on a regular basis I did not like them. If anything it is because Jim disliked them so much that I began following him more closely.

 

I disliked the Bucks going back to TNA. They just never seemed threatening to me, they looked like two guys you would see in a sucky backyard wrestling promotion. I find their humor to be annoying and I hate how they have killed the super kick as a finisher.

 

In regards to Kenny Omega, I just never got it. When I first started seeing him in ROH I was willing to give him a shot. But he just came across as a guy who was over hyped, (At the expense of people who were regulars on the ROH roster) had terrible looking hair, and he carried a broom around with him because he was called the cleaner. If that was supposed to be mob related why have him carry a broom around? His promo skills had and still have a lot to be desired. I truly do not understand why so many people love this guy.

 

Now people will say, "What about his five star matches." To which I say, "I don't really care." Honestly unless a wrestler is absolutely terrible, I probably will not notice how good they are in the ring.

 

Now I am not saying I am totally against AEW. They have wrestlers I like. Just to name a few...

 

Cody has shown he is not just another WWE midcard guy, that he has the talent to be in the spot he is in.

 

Jericho has been at the top of his game there and has managed to reinvent himself yet again.

 

MJF (Though I liked him a lot more in MLW. The way the Dynasty played off each other is fantastic and I would love to see Hammerstone and Holliday brought into AEW to work with MJF).

 

Kaz, Christopher Daniels, Scorpio Sky. Daniels is one of my favorite wrestlers right now and Kaz and Sky have been great in the SoCal stable. Is it a stable? Whatever it is considered.

 

Pac is awesome. The dude just looks like a jerk and I always find his matches entertaining.

 

Darby Allin, I am not sure what it is about him but I like him. He needs better looking ring gear.

 

Dustin Rhodes, I know the Goldust gimmick is his career defining gimmick. But I have always disliked that character. When I first saw him in WCW I became a fan and I remember being angry when he went to the WWF because I knew they were going to saddle him with some stupid gimmick. I mean he did a good job of making a bad gimmick memorable but I am just glad he is back to being Dustin again.

 

Allie, I loved her run in TNA and I think that AEW could do so much more with her.

 

There are more that I like and more that I dislike but I am not going to go on and on as this post is already too long.

[Peppermint Rage]

I see this thread has started talking about Cornette, forgive me, but I honestly can't stand the man, depending on weather he's trying to work people he comes across to me as either an old man with an out of date view on wrestling that can't stand the fact that the business has changed, or he's deliberately playing the role of a heel that hates the new stuff despite the fact that it's not getting him booked.

[BlueStar]

Dated references for the win!

 

I think you can agree with him and be a fan of AEW as well. I find myself agreeing with him on a lot of stuff but I also liked ECW and he was not a fan of that. I don't hate hardcore wresting either, though some of it has gone too far.

 

For me parts of AEW were always going to be tough for me to get into. Mainly because I have always disliked Kenny Omega and the Bucks.

 

Even before Jim was complaining about them on a regular basis I did not like them. If anything it is because Jim disliked them so much that I began following him more closely.

 

I disliked the Bucks going back to TNA. They just never seemed threatening to me, they looked like two guys you would see in a sucky backyard wrestling promotion. I find their humor to be annoying and I hate how they have killed the super kick as a finisher.

 

In regards to Kenny Omega, I just never got it. When I first started seeing him in ROH I was willing to give him a shot. But he just came across as a guy who was over hyped, (At the expense of people who were regulars on the ROH roster) had terrible looking hair, and he carried a broom around with him because he was called the cleaner. If that was supposed to be mob related why have him carry a broom around? His promo skills had and still have a lot to be desired. I truly do not understand why so many people love this guy.

 

Now people will say, "What about his five star matches." To which I say, "I don't really care." Honestly unless a wrestler is absolutely terrible, I probably will not notice how good they are in the ring.

 

Now I am not saying I am totally against AEW. They have wrestlers I like. Just to name a few...

 

Cody has shown he is not just another WWE midcard guy, that he has the talent to be in the spot he is in.

 

Jericho has been at the top of his game there and has managed to reinvent himself yet again.

 

MJF (Though I liked him a lot more in MLW. The way the Dynasty played off each other is fantastic and I would love to see Hammerstone and Holliday brought into AEW to work with MJF).

 

Kaz, Christopher Daniels, Scorpio Sky. Daniels is one of my favorite wrestlers right now and Kaz and Sky have been great in the SoCal stable. Is it a stable? Whatever it is considered.

 

Pac is awesome. The dude just looks like a jerk and I always find his matches entertaining.

 

Darby Allin, I am not sure what it is about him but I like him. He needs better looking ring gear.

 

Dustin Rhodes, I know the Goldust gimmick is his career defining gimmick. But I have always disliked that character. When I first saw him in WCW I became a fan and I remember being angry when he went to the WWF because I knew they were going to saddle him with some stupid gimmick. I mean he did a good job of making a bad gimmick memorable but I am just glad he is back to being Dustin again.

 

Allie, I loved her run in TNA and I think that AEW could do so much more with her.

 

There are more that I like and more that I dislike but I am not going to go on and on as this post is already too long.

 

Agree completely.

[Peppermint Rage]

 

this is killing the business

 

 

Edit: Just had to point out that he's an insufferable hypocrite, with that said, as much as I am a fan of AEW there ares some valid criticisms of the product, in particular they've had some weak debuts perhaps a few too many petty attacks at WWE (though some of them worked pretty well) production botches are a little too common (I've lost count of the amount of times they've come back from commercial to the sound of the crowd counting down to the end of the commercial) and while the women they have are good, I will admit the division feels lacking.

[DeathZone2]

 

this is killing the business

 

 

Edit: Just had to point out that he's an insufferable hypocrite, with that said, as much as I am a fan of AEW there ares some valid criticisms of the product, in particular they've had some weak debuts perhaps a few too many petty attacks at WWE (though some of them worked pretty well) production botches are a little too common (I've lost count of the amount of times they've come back from commercial to the sound of the crowd counting down to the end of the commercial) and while the women they have are good, I will admit the division feels lacking.

 

I don't really count this as hypocritical to him say bashing Omega for fighting girl. He's an out of shape, mamma's boy manager making a fool of himself fighting a guy dressed a turtle, which is just a cheap gimmick like Unabomb, the Christmas Creature etc. which are using popular characters as a way to get over. He isn't supposed to be perceived as a threat. Unlike Omega who is supposed to be seen as a World Champion, "The Best Bout Machine", someone who should be taken seriously, it's not comparable.

[Blake Trask]

Cornette's an out of touch bigot who forgets wrestling's had goofiness for as long as its existed.

 

Wrestling is an entertainment business. If people are entertained by silly spots and gimmicks, the wrestlers are succeeding.

[Self]

I'm 60/40 on Cornette. I absolutely see the logic in what he says, but I also personally enjoy goofy modern wrestling.

 

Times have changed. Wrestling embraced its fakeness a long time ago. In some ways it's a shame. In some ways it's not. I wish Cornette would spend more time talking about the old days, so folks can learn from that, rather than keep being pressured into reviewing modern wrestling and launching into the same tirades every week.

 

It has been fun listening to him review modern WWE and actually start to appreciate/understand AEW a little bit.

[Blackman]

I've heard him actually praise AEW, especially with how they handle the empty arena matches, so it's not that he's all negative.

 

I enjoy his analysis as it's entertaining, am I'm not even counting his callout to Russo. Look: the guy has his niche and his audience. If he strays from this path too much, he'll lose the cult audience he has now.

[Peppermint Rage]

to be clear I don't think everything Cornette says is wrong, but he certainly has a very limited way of viewing wrestling nowadays, Most old school stuff worked for a reason and still works, IMO the error in his logic is that he seems to think it's the only thing that works.