Public Beta Reaction Thread

[TOTKingNothing]

I've actually found a lot of great uses for the whiteboard. I'm happy it's there.

 

Yeah I haven't found a single use for it yet, but I'm sure when I do, I too will be happy it's there. It's harmless. The whole new look and vibe of the editor is awesome, it was so much easier to do work in the editor this year, I could actually see myself publishing a mod with this years version if only I could customize products.

 

Ok so I wasn't sure where to post this as it isn't really a bug, so I'll ask here for discussion!

 

Is it just me or is it odd attitude entertainment, which I assume is supposed to be the attitude era, punishes eye candy matches and sex appeal angles? Surely they should be a boost, Sable was HUGE and only had her looks, watch Miss Kitty matches in a swimming pool or flashing and the reactions are actually insane. Yet someone like her wouldn't have any lasting popularity, talent or much charisma yet the live crowds were insane. Surely both sex appeal and eye candy should give a big boost for that product?

 

I've tried looking, maybe I'm missing it, is there any actual entertainment product where sex appeal and eye candy was a boost? I would have thought all entertainment except kids/pg would have a boost with sex appeal, even if they're not stripping they still get a big reaction from crowds just being at ring side.

 

You aren't the only person who thinks this is odd, but the general consensus seems to be that the penalty is there for a reason, especially for balance and realism, so that you can't abuse the rating to get east 100's on your angles. I do think that in some products, the penalty is a little too severe, but I, overall, agree that a match or angle rated purely on sex appeal shouldn't be able to reach 89-100 scores.

[awesomenessofme1]

Ok so I wasn't sure where to post this as it isn't really a bug, so I'll ask here for discussion!

 

Is it just me or is it odd attitude entertainment, which I assume is supposed to be the attitude era, punishes eye candy matches and sex appeal angles? Surely they should be a boost, Sable was HUGE and only had her looks, watch Miss Kitty matches in a swimming pool or flashing and the reactions are actually insane. Yet someone like her wouldn't have any lasting popularity, talent or much charisma yet the live crowds were insane. Surely both sex appeal and eye candy should give a big boost for that product?

 

I've tried looking, maybe I'm missing it, is there any actual entertainment product where sex appeal and eye candy was a boost? I would have thought all entertainment except kids/pg would have a boost with sex appeal, even if they're not stripping they still get a big reaction from crowds just being at ring side.

 

When it comes to the last part "being at ringside", Sex Appeal can be used as a main attribute for managers. I do think in general Sex Appeal has been nerfed too much. I actually don't have a problem with most of the product dings, but the actual angle rating is way too popularity-based now. That said, even with penalties, most of the female "wrestlers" employed by the WWF at this time would still be far better off in eye candy matches than regular ones.

[lavelleuk]

Yeah I haven't found a single use for it yet, but I'm sure when I do, I too will be happy it's there. It's harmless. The whole new look and vibe of the editor is awesome, it was so much easier to do work in the editor this year, I could actually see myself publishing a mod with this years version if only I could customize products.

 

 

 

You aren't the only person who thinks this is odd, but the general consensus seems to be that the penalty is there for a reason, especially for balance and realism, so that you can't abuse the rating to get east 100's on your angles. I do think that in some products, the penalty is a little too severe, but I, overall, agree that a match or angle rated purely on sex appeal shouldn't be able to reach 89-100 scores.

 

I kind of get that, and yeah 89-100 seems high BUT I bet more people remember miss kitty at armageddon, sable and her hand bikini, bikini contests etc than some all time top matches

 

While I find them cringe you cant deny they are hugely remembered, drew insane ratings and go on wrestling fb pages even today and the attitude era women get massive discussions. I'd argue some of those terrible sexist skits are actually 89-100 rated simply based on live reaction and how memorable they are.

 

And again, I say this as someone who doesn't like them lol

 

Constant 89-100 is bad, but I'd argue in certain products they should be cheat easy ratings grabbers as that's exactly what they were, and a big part of why WWF beat WCW in the most watched era if wrestling ever

[mrpengo88]

What's up with the match time in show history? It seems to just be some number that isn't actually the length I set the match to be.

[awesomenessofme1]

What's up with the match time in show history? It seems to just be some number that isn't actually the length I set the match to be.

 

This was fixed in patch 5, but I don't know if it will work retroactively.

[beatingstuff88]

I mean, the sex appeal abuse can easily be rectified by just having a "X was used too often in a sex appeal segment recently" or something message, kinda like the repeated matchup penalty

[Irishwhiskey119]

Yeah I haven't found a single use for it yet, but I'm sure when I do, I too will be happy it's there. It's harmless. The whole new look and vibe of the editor is awesome, it was so much easier to do work in the editor this year, I could actually see myself publishing a mod with this years version if only I could customize products.

 

 

 

You aren't the only person who thinks this is odd, but the general consensus seems to be that the penalty is there for a reason, especially for balance and realism, so that you can't abuse the rating to get east 100's on your angles. I do think that in some products, the penalty is a little too severe, but I, overall, agree that a match or angle rated purely on sex appeal shouldn't be able to reach 89-100 scores.

 

 

Plus, there should be freedom to make a product that is key feature sex appeal in an era where sex appeal is viewed the highest. Years back MTV was all about selling sex and imagine if the Playboy or w/e debauchery fueled media decided to start a pro wrestling promotion that wouldn't penalize looks and sexuality.

 

So again, what does the future of wrestling have to hold? Eras change and society evolved and devolves opening up plenty of promotion strategies that won't be templates. I sure as hell don't want to wait on things to be added on the fly let alone have to deal with being told it's not needed because they don't agree.

 

Just easier to allow the entire range of settings to be set and throw in the templates for quicker set ups like 16.

[lavelleuk]

I mean, the sex appeal abuse can easily be rectified by just having a "X was used too often in a sex appeal segment recently" or something message, kinda like the repeated matchup penalty

 

Yeah that's a good idea.

 

Way I see it, rightly or wrongly, the lowest level WWE woman could come out on raw, say nothing, flash the crowd and then leave and its get a huge reaction, would generate buzz and be one of the highest viewed things on social media and in 20 years everyone would say"remenber when that happened"

 

Having a bikini contests on attitude era product should getal a big quick pop, but two a show and itll be penalised, have a third bikini contests and it'd bomb

[lavelleuk]

Plus, there should be freedom to make a product that is key feature sex appeal in an era where sex appeal is viewed the highest. Years back MTV was all about selling sex and imagine if the Playboy or w/e debauchery fueled media decided to start a pro wrestling promotion that wouldn't penalize looks and sexuality.

 

So again, what does the future of wrestling have to hold? Eras change and society evolved and devolves opening up plenty of promotion strategies that won't be templates. I sure as hell don't want to wait on things to be added on the fly let alone have to deal with being told it's not needed because they don't agree.

 

Just easier to allow the entire range of settings to be set and throw in the templates for quicker set ups like 16.

 

I was surprised T&A levels is removed, even in product features, unless I'm missing its?

[awesomenessofme1]

I was surprised T&A levels is removed, even in product features, unless I'm missing its?

 

Now that you mention it, even though it's mentioned in the handbook, I don't think any product has requirements for there being a certain number of attractive women. Not even stuff like Attitude Entertainment or even Risque Adult.

[Donners]

Plus, there should be freedom to make a product that is key feature sex appeal in an era where sex appeal is viewed the highest. Years back MTV was all about selling sex and imagine if the Playboy or w/e debauchery fueled media decided to start a pro wrestling promotion that wouldn't penalize looks and sexuality.

 

There already have been IRL examples of such - the Naked Women’s Wrestling League, for instance. It was terrible and failed quickly, mind you, but maybe someone would want to replicate it.

 

Hell, there’s even the modern examples of Ultimate Surrender and Evolved Fights, though they might be a bit outside the scope of TEW.

[TOTKingNothing]

Yeah that's a good idea.

 

Way I see it, rightly or wrongly, the lowest level WWE woman could come out on raw, say nothing, flash the crowd and then leave and its get a huge reaction, would generate buzz and be one of the highest viewed things on social media and in 20 years everyone would say"remenber when that happened"

 

Having a bikini contests on attitude era product should getal a big quick pop, but two a show and itll be penalised, have a third bikini contests and it'd bomb

 

Maybe eye candy matches shouldn't be nerffed so much by default, but they shouldn't be able to go very long at all before suffering penalties to the score.

[Irishwhiskey119]

There already have been IRL examples of such - the Naked Women’s Wrestling League, for instance. It was terrible and failed quickly, mind you, but maybe someone would want to replicate it.

 

Hell, there’s even the modern examples of Ultimate Surrender and Evolved Fights, though they might be a bit outside the scope of TEW.

 

For sure, but that doesn't dictate it working in a completely different era though. Like i said we don't know what the future has to hold and if they presented things differently back then w/ a bit better story telling and a better booker it could work.

 

A lot of things could. Just because we haven't seen something yet, doesn't mean it isn't possible. I only say that because this game goes on for years and years and does have eras section in both versions so the thought of evolution and potential isn't beyond Adam.

[djthefunkchris]

You aren't the only person who thinks this is odd, but the general consensus seems to be that the penalty is there for a reason, especially for balance and realism, so that you can't abuse the rating to get east 100's on your angles. I do think that in some products, the penalty is a little too severe, but I, overall, agree that a match or angle rated purely on sex appeal shouldn't be able to reach 89-100 scores.

Those were real life examples that shows that it IS real, so take out realism, and leave balance. This is where I know anyone like me has a problem. Say "It's better for game balance if we do it this way, although we understand that it's not realistic." or even a "We don't want the game to be sexist or exploit sexism" Sayin' it that way might garner a "Oh, that makes sense", but when they say it was took out for realism, even in today's world that's not even remotely real. Why do I keep fighting for something I don't care that much about? I must care more than I thought...

[Supermercado]

But how about that white board? Pretty annoying, right?

 

Seriously, I'm sure 99% of people don't mind it. I just really dislike it. Editor is really good in a lot of ways. Whiteboard is not!

 

Would like option to replace whiteboard with a quick view of the highlighted item. Then you can easily check details without having to click through (especially with the lag in refreshing long lists), and people who need the whiteboard can choose to turn it on.

[TOTKingNothing]

Those were real life examples that shows that it IS real, so take out realism, and leave balance. This is where I know anyone like me has a problem. Say "It's better for game balance if we do it this way, although we understand that it's not realistic." or even a "We don't want the game to be sexist or exploit sexism" Sayin' it that way might garner a "Oh, that makes sense", but when they say it was took out for realism, even in today's world that's not even remotely real. Why do I keep fighting for something I don't care that much about? I must care more than I thought...

 

The realism argument comes in when you are comparing it to other things happening on your show.

 

Is a Torrie Wilson vs Kat Bra and Panties match supposed to be capable of having the same rating as Shawn Michaels vs the Undertaker, just because they are rated on different things?

 

The answer, for most people, is no. Torrie vs Kat should be able to be rated well in the right product definitions, but it shouldn't be capable of hitting top scores because, no matter how good the rating is, it still probably isn't a "good match."

[Pjs86]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TOTKingNothing" data-cite="TOTKingNothing" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The realism argument comes in when you are comparing it to other things happening on your show.<p> </p><p> Is a Torrie Wilson vs Kat Bra and Panties match supposed to be capable of having the same rating as Shawn Michaels vs the Undertaker, just because they are rated on different things?</p><p> </p><p> The answer, for most people, is no. Torrie vs Kat should be able to be rated well in the right product definitions, but it shouldn't be capable of hitting top scores because, no matter how good the rating is, it still probably isn't a "good match."</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This feels absolutely spot on to me.</p>

[TOTKingNothing]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Pjs86" data-cite="Pjs86" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This feels absolutely spot on to me.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I will say, that being said, I do think the current penalties being applied to sex appeal are a little TOO negative. As of right now, I literally never use the role or products that allow it because I still think the game penalizes it too much in 2016, and it's even more brutal in 2020.</p>

[djthefunkchris]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TOTKingNothing" data-cite="TOTKingNothing" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The realism argument comes in when you are comparing it to other things happening on your show.<p> </p><p> Is a Torrie Wilson vs Kat Bra and Panties match supposed to be capable of having the same rating as Shawn Michaels vs the Undertaker, just because they are rated on different things?</p><p> </p><p> The answer, for most people, is no. Torrie vs Kat should be able to be rated well in the right product definitions, but it shouldn't be capable of hitting top scores because, no matter how good the rating is, it still probably isn't a "good match."</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm saying that you are absolutely wrong... and right at the same time. IF you are talking STRICTLY about in ring skills, obviously you are right.</p><p> </p><p> However, if Torrie and Kat put on a great showing, that enhanced their sex appeal to the fullest, their match should garner the same ratings with the same benefits that those ratings give, that Taker and Michaels got. Taker and Michaels were going for in ring work, Torrie and Kat were going for sex appeal. </p><p> </p><p> It worked, they did become famous, I would argue that it make some of the women more famous outside of wrestling in which that Taker/Michaels match didn't. SO there could be a legitimate debate that says they could have even got a better score.</p><p> </p><p> The difference in my opinion that I might get behind as being realistic, is that looks only goes so far... but you can't do that for every match. Someone mentioned having their be penalties for overusing someone in Sex Appeal matches... I agree with that. IF Kat is getting nude every PPV, after a while it's "Oh, there she goes again..." </p><p> </p><p> But I definitely seen women get popular because of some super sexy hot thing they did, in the same way Austin 3:16 or Punk's Pipe Bomb did. Everyone was talking about it the next day or right afterward.</p><p> </p><p> Sex Appeal can get them there just as easily if not more easily, but no one ever stayed there based solely on their looks. It's always something else, even if it's just Charisma.</p><p> </p><p> Your entitled to your opinion, and I would defend your right to have one. I disagree with you on this occasion, but I can 100% see your point. The question is can you see mine? IF not, the discussion becomes close minded and my point is excused as if it doesn't matter as much as your point.</p>

[cwamaniac]

<p>I think I remember</p><p> </p><p>

Someone in one of these threads quoted that sex appeal segments and matches are rated 70 on popularity and 30 percent on looks, which feels a bit too far in addition to other caps in place (if I recall they can’t go over ten minutes), perhaps a slight tweak to 60 popularity and 40 sex appeal? Would suffice? This is one of those cases where it be better to just tweak the percentages I feel rather than do anything else there</p><p> </p><p>

One minor issue I have is I used to in my SWF file introduce a Female Interviewer (usually Haley Buck) with sex appeal angles saying nothing of substance and let say Jack Bruce be interviewed once a show for 5 minutes or when her pop increases 6, eventually she’d transition to mic skills and increase her popularity more and once it reaches a certain point I’d transition her into a manager role via a storyline and hire another female interviewer repeating the process.</p><p> </p><p>

But I don’t know how currently viable this strategy is with the new nerfs on the stat (which feels extra weird in certain promotions products), could someone tell me how viable the stripper promotion is I feel that would be the best way to test the issue.</p>

[Donners]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TOTKingNothing" data-cite="TOTKingNothing" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The realism argument comes in when you are comparing it to other things happening on your show.<p> </p><p> Is a Torrie Wilson vs Kat Bra and Panties match supposed to be capable of having the same rating as Shawn Michaels vs the Undertaker, just because they are rated on different things?</p><p> </p><p> The answer, for most people, is no. Torrie vs Kat should be able to be rated well in the right product definitions, but it shouldn't be capable of hitting top scores because, no matter how good the rating is, it still probably isn't a "good match."</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Depends on how you look at it. We're not talking about Meltzer star ratings here, it's about segment ratings which are ultimately a tool to boost popularity.</p><p> </p><p> If a sex appeal match will ultimately draw in more viewers than a traditional wrestling match, should it not rate higher? </p><p> </p><p> It's arguable that such a match would indeed do so - just look at the crowd reaction the likes of Sable got at her peak, or Mick Foley's tale in (IIRC) his first autobiography about how his signing queue was empty while a diva's stretched out the door.</p><p> </p><p> It would feel strange to see such a segment rate so highly mind you - a flashback to the old days where the old diva shooting t-shirts angle got 100 every time - but in mechanical terms it does make sense.</p>

[TOTKingNothing]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Donners" data-cite="Donners" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Depends on how you look at it. We're not talking about Meltzer star ratings here, it's about segment ratings which are ultimately a tool to boost popularity.<p> </p><p> If a sex appeal match will ultimately draw in more viewers than a traditional wrestling match, should it not rate higher?</p><p> </p><p> It's arguable that such a match would indeed do so - just look at the crowd reaction the likes of Sable got at her peak, or Mick Foley's tale in (IIRC) his first autobiography about how his signing queue was empty while a diva's stretched out the door.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm gonna bow out of the debate because I actually don't care about this particular issue and have even said that I think the current penalty makes sense but is a little too harsh. Swings too far in that direction.</p><p> </p><p> I was just trying to explain the other side of the argument's current logic.</p>

[Donners]

I don’t particularly care either; just throwing out thoughts for consideration!

[spiffyone]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TeemuFoundation" data-cite="TeemuFoundation" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That'd be so dope. I wish it'd be possible to have this enabled as the default. I would urge you to make this suggestion in the suggestion forum.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Just did. Also added in the bit about being able to cycle through and select the buttons usually clicked on via tab and enter. Again, don't know if that's even possible, but if it is it would be a godsend for folks like myself who are used to total keybard control on databases.</p>

[TheEffect]

<p>Random thought, I would love if a wrestler piped up and said "Why don't you hire *insert name*"</p><p> </p><p>

Like if they had a relationship or recently had a good match with them.</p><p>

Probably a lot of coding but seemed cool and realistic</p>