Reasons I choose TEW2016 over TEW2020: (All of this is just my opinion)

[Tomato Can]

I love having the opportunity to have more than 3 brands in 2020, but not being able to click a box and move multiple workers at once makes it a chore to move workers around.

 

2020 offers ability to move Title Belts. I love this idea, unfortunately, you cannot move the worker with the belt as champion. The belt is vacated.

 

2016 you can assign a worker to “work down there” in a developmental territory if you have nothing for them at the time (even if they do not need to work on abilities). In 2020 we no longer have this option.

 

I definitely choose the 2016 interface over the 2020 interface.

 

Booking a show screen flows much smoother for me in 2016.

 

I think sorting a worker by skill is so much easier in 2016.

 

I find the gimmick options much better in 2020, but I also find them extremely random when it is applied to the worker.

 

In 2016 we can go to the user talents of the player and adjust how you want to spread them out at any time during the game. In 2020, once you set them you cannot go in and change them.

 

I hate that we have very limited flexibility in the in game editor mode of contracts.

 

I think the “angles” in 2020 seem to be designed to be intentionally more difficult for the sake of just being difficult. If two guys great on the microphone get a lower grade only because I choose “microphone” for both, then I think that is trying to over think the room.

 

In every mod that I have played around with in 2020 the backstage is filled with red “mildly negative influence” people causing way too many “incidents” every show. This tells me that the attributes section has been totally revamped. I am not a fan of the work that we have to go through to adjust every worker to fix this.

 

The forced product for each promotion allows very little flexibility in TEW 2020.

 

The fact that a number of my favorite mod makers have already bailed on making mods for 2020 because they find that the new game is just too difficult for them to work with, means that as a RW mod player, my options will be limited.

 

The predetermined popularity cap in 2020 is just something that I am not interested in. I am not saying that it is right or wrong, I just don’t want it.

I feel like this game is made to please “gamers” with a desire to “win and move to the next level” more than guys like me who just want to fantasy book and enjoy reliving and rewriting history.

 

I feel like changes were made to 2020 to “prevent people from cheating” or “working around the system”. While I do very little of that, I think the player should have a right to play any way they choose.

 

I have read the advice of “just play 2020 in sandbox mode” many times. While that may keep some of the changes to the game from taking effect, it does not stop them from popping up on screen constantly reminding you how poorly you are at playing the new version of this game.

[TheChef]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Tomato Can" data-cite="Tomato Can" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52244" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> The predetermined popularity cap in 2020 is just something that I am not interested in. I am not saying that it is right or wrong, I just don’t want it.</p><p> I feel like this game is made to please “gamers” with a desire to “win and move to the next level” more than guys like me who just want to fantasy book and enjoy reliving and rewriting history.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> I agree with a lot of what you're saying and I have big issues with TEW 2020 myself, but this one is not accurate. In fact, it's the opposite. The pop caps have been loosened in 2020 to the point where a big company can have 50% of workers as major stars with 7-8 guys at 95+.</p><p> </p><p> The predetermined popularity caps in 2016 were much harsher and completely inflexible, whereas in 2020 the pop caps can change. I agree that they are a problem, but it's that they're too loose and allow too many people to get ridiculously popular.</p>

[Tomato Can]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheChef" data-cite="TheChef" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52244" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I agree with a lot of what you're saying and I have big issues with TEW 2020 myself, but this one is not accurate. In fact, it's the opposite. The pop caps have been loosened in 2020 to the point where a big company can have 50% of workers as major stars with 7-8 guys at 95+.<p> </p><p> The predetermined popularity caps in 2016 were much harsher and completely inflexible, whereas in 2020 the pop caps can change. I agree that they are a problem, but it's that they're too loose and allow too many people to get ridiculously popular.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Thank you for pointing that out my friend. I will re-examine that. That is good news! Thank you!</p>

[Undertaker666]

2016 you can assign a worker to “work down there” in a developmental territory if you have nothing for them at the time (even if they do not need to work on abilities). In 2020 we no longer have this option.

 

You can send someone to a child company, to a company you have a deal with or to a Dojo/Performance Centre if you have one.

 

I think sorting a worker by skill is so much easier in 2016.

 

In what way? By what "skill"?

 

In 2016 we can go to the user talents of the player and adjust how you want to spread them out at any time during the game. In 2020, once you set them you cannot go in and change them.

 

When have you been able to adjust them during the game at will? In 2016 you can't take a point away from Leadership and add it to Negotiating (for example) mid-game.

 

I hate that we have very limited flexibility in the in game editor mode of contracts.

 

So you're unhappy that you can't cheat?

 

I think the “angles” in 2020 seem to be designed to be intentionally more difficult for the sake of just being difficult. If two guys great on the microphone get a lower grade only because I choose “microphone” for both, then I think that is trying to over think the room.

 

What examples have you got that people great on the mic have poor ratings?

 

In every mod that I have played around with in 2020 the backstage is filled with red “mildly negative influence” people causing way too many “incidents” every show. This tells me that the attributes section has been totally revamped. I am not a fan of the work that we have to go through to adjust every worker to fix this.

 

The attributes section has been revamped, so that's a mod issue, not a TEW2020 issue.

 

I feel like this game is made to please “gamers” with a desire to “win and move to the next level” more than guys like me who just want to fantasy book and enjoy reliving and rewriting history.

 

You say you want to fantasy book but then later say you don't want to go for a sandbox mode?

 

I feel like changes were made to 2020 to “prevent people from cheating” or “working around the system”. While I do very little of that, I think the player should have a right to play any way they choose.

 

You can choose how you play. If you don't agree with stats, attributes, roles or contracts in the default data (or mod data) then you can change it to how you want it to be.

 

I have read the advice of “just play 2020 in sandbox mode” many times. While that may keep some of the changes to the game from taking effect, it does not stop them from popping up on screen constantly reminding you how poorly you are at playing the new version of this game.

 

If the game is telling you that you're playing poorly then why aren't you taking that advice into account and trying to improve?

[beatingstuff88]

In what way? By what "skill"?

 

I think he means in 2016 where you could sort workers by "has decent/good/great/excellent brawling" for example

[jgriff3029]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The attributes section has been revamped, so that's a mod issue, not a TEW2020 issue.

 

 

 

This is such a a poor statement. The game was built with an a mod converter. It doesn't correctly convert the attributes. That is a TEW20 issue.

[smartman]

This is such a a poor statement. The game was built with an a mod converter. It doesn't correctly convert the attributes. That is a TEW20 issue.

 

The problem with his entire post is that he's tagged as someone employed by GDS. That alone means that person should NEVER be debating/arguing/engaging in the forum. That's completely unprofessional behavior from the company. If a person with the company wants to engage in that behavior, then they should have a second account approved by Arlie to do so. If a AAA company tried this (and there have been instances of them doing that), they've been slammed all over the gamer media for doing it. Obviously, Adam is exempt from this as he's the sole coder on the game.

 

And Tomato, you left out so many things that make 2020 a trainwreck, but your list was pretty accurate. I wish this game was good, but it just isn't. I wish all the frequently listed problems would get fixed.

[jgriff3029]

The problem with his entire post is that he's tagged as someone employed by GDS. That alone means that person should NEVER be debating/arguing/engaging in the forum. That's completely unprofessional behavior from the company. If a person with the company wants to engage in that behavior, then they should have a second account approved by Arlie to do so. If a AAA company tried this (and there have been instances of them doing that), they've been slammed all over the gamer media for doing it. Obviously, Adam is exempt from this as he's the sole coder on the game.

 

And Tomato, you left out so many things that make 2020 a trainwreck, but your list was pretty accurate. I wish this game was good, but it just isn't. I wish all the frequently listed problems would get fixed.

 

I agree. It is getting old seeing people tagged as employees and moderators talking down to people who have a criticism of the game. Doubt I will drop another dime on GDS games unless this changes.

[rktaker]

The problem with his entire post is that he's tagged as someone employed by GDS. That alone means that person should NEVER be debating/arguing/engaging in the forum. That's completely unprofessional behavior from the company. If a person with the company wants to engage in that behavior, then they should have a second account approved by Arlie to do so. If a AAA company tried this (and there have been instances of them doing that), they've been slammed all over the gamer media for doing it. Obviously, Adam is exempt from this as he's the sole coder on the game.

 

And Tomato, you left out so many things that make 2020 a trainwreck, but your list was pretty accurate. I wish this game was good, but it just isn't. I wish all the frequently listed problems would get fixed.

 

so someone who's an employee of a company should never respond to a person's complaints about the game? if you Bought Cod black ops for example and then listed all of your complaints you'd be annoyed if an Activision employee responded to you?

[hailthebulldog]

Guys I understand has a right to an opinion but maybe if you want changes to be made post under suggestions. If you don't then maybe post under 2016. You have full rights to say what you want, within forum rules, but people have at this point chosen to either move to the new game or stay with the old game. Also, mods and employees should be free to comment on public posts. I'm not trying to insult anyone or make anyone upset but we get it some people don't like the new game and some people do. Let's just leave it at that.

[Undertaker666]

I think he means in 2016 where you could sort workers by "has decent/good/great/excellent brawling" for example

 

Ahhh, you're probably right. It's been a while since i've played 2016 and forgot about that part. But as you can filter by any skill/s you want to in 2020 then I would've assumed that was a better option as you can be more specific to your needs.

 

This is such a a poor statement. The game was built with an a mod converter. It doesn't correctly convert the attributes. That is a TEW20 issue.

 

The converter is there to make mod making easier so that mod makers don't have to do everything again from scratch, not to convert a mod completely to the new version. It is impossible for the converter to convert a mod from a previous version with an entirely different set of information to the new version. There's a sticky thread in the Mods forum with a checklist of the changes: http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=545021

 

I'm not trying to be flippant or anything of the sort but you can't expect to convert a TEW, WMMA, Football Manager or Call of Duty mod (examples) from one version to the other without some sort of effort involved to take new things into account which didn't exist in a previous version.

 

The problem with his entire post is that he's tagged as someone employed by GDS. That alone means that person should NEVER be debating/arguing/engaging in the forum. That's completely unprofessional behavior from the company. If a person with the company wants to engage in that behavior, then they should have a second account approved by Arlie to do so. If a AAA company tried this (and there have been instances of them doing that), they've been slammed all over the gamer media for doing it. Obviously, Adam is exempt from this as he's the sole coder on the game.

 

I agree. It is getting old seeing people tagged as employees and moderators talking down to people who have a criticism of the game. Doubt I will drop another dime on GDS games unless this changes.

 

Just look at the forums on Steam. If you refute a criticism even when you have nothing to do with a game or company then you're accused of being a "company shill", so what difference would myself having another account make? Surely you should want more people involved to be on hand to talk to/help/provide feedback?

 

In this instance i've pointed out a few things incorrect in the original post (like being able to change User Talents mid-game) and asked questions, such as asking for examples for the poor mic ratings so that either:

1. They can be looked into, or

2. The mod maker can look into the stats.

 

I've tried to avoid commenting on things which are a matter of preference (unless one thing mentioned contradicts another), such as the booking screen and the interface.

[Sprout1883]

I love 2020. Of course it has flaws, but i have found it much easier to get into than other tew games. (Perhaps that helps me love it though as i have no connection to previous versions)

 

If you are complaining mods, i would be grateful there is a tool to help and that the developer has gone out of his way to help you. He quite literally doesnt have to do that at all.

 

If you dont like the game and its problems thats one thing, but i don't think you can complain about RW mods when it isnt a RW game.

 

How long has the game been out now? Mods take time, just like developing the original game. It takes effort and if a game has been updated and tweaked, than mod makers have to do so as well.

 

Unless you are playing the retail version, you cant expect a mod to be chucked in your lap, or even edit the original C-verse game yourself without a bit of effort

 

Of course that doesnt mean there arent things that cant be addressed or tweaked. Some have, some might not, but that is what the tech issue and suggestion forum is for

[TheChef]

Guys I understand has a right to an opinion but maybe if you want changes to be made post under suggestions. If you don't then maybe post under 2016. You have full rights to say what you want, within forum rules, but people have at this point chosen to either move to the new game or stay with the old game. Also, mods and employees should be free to comment on public posts. I'm not trying to insult anyone or make anyone upset but we get it some people don't like the new game and some people do. Let's just leave it at that.

 

Of course that doesnt mean there arent things that cant be addressed or tweaked. Some have, some might not, but that is what the tech issue and suggestion forum is for

 

 

There have been many, many posts made in the tech and suggestions forums since the game was released and I don't think a single one of them has been acknowledged let alone implemented. So that is a dead end. TEW 2020 is an incomplete game that seems to have been abandoned by its creators in said incomplete state.

[Sprout1883]

There have been many, many posts made in the tech and suggestions forums since the game was released and I don't think a single one of them has been acknowledged let alone implemented. So that is a dead end. TEW 2020 is an incomplete game that seems to have been abandoned by its creators in said incomplete state.

 

but what do you mean by incomplete though?

 

I don't know how easy some of the suggestions are to implement in a finished game. I am not a coder, but Adam took a step up from 2016 to introduce new things and change some for 2020 to try and make a better game.

 

If people prefer 2016, than play 2016 with whatever mods float your boat. It might be a better game to some, but at the same time will still be missing things that people want that were introduced in 20

[Questlove]

Honestly, they're both bad games. TEW 2020 is not even close to being the kind of step up the series needed and any future game is automatically DOA unless the coding language is changed for a start.

[TheChef]

but what do you mean by incomplete though?

 

I don't know how easy some of the suggestions are to implement in a finished game. I am not a coder, but Adam took a step up from 2016 to introduce new things and change some for 2020 to try and make a better game.

 

If people prefer 2016, than play 2016 with whatever mods float your boat. It might be a better game to some, but at the same time will still be missing things that people want that were introduced in 20

 

 

Well, there's a lot of things that have been pointed out many times, but the biggest issue is game balance. If you play for more than 2 or 3 in-game years, the game starts to become unplayable. The finances are massively inflated; companies stockpile millions of dollars, even smaller companies. Skill changes happen too fast if guys are working regularly. I've seen some skills shoot up 17 points in one year. Popularity is another one; in one of my saves, I had a roster of 60 workers, 22 of whom were major stars, 7 more stars. 8 of the major stars had over 95 pop and I didn't even book them all that strongly. Momentum - how does it even work? Guys on long winning streaks sometimes can't get above warm while others who are already main eventers never drop below red hot even after eating losses to guys below them.

 

These are just the main issues. There are a lot of smaller problems too, such as no longer being able to pay for talent trades, not being able to edit people back into the game, etc. These small ones I can live with, but the game is so badly imbalanced that I can't actually play a long-term save.

[Teh_Showtime]

I enjoy 2020 immensely but some of the new systems completely invalidate playstyles that have been prominent in the series way back to the extreme warfare days.

 

You can’t start a no name promotion with any name wrestlers, otherwise the entire roster will be labeled as major stars and throws off the balance. This one in particular is very frustrating for low pop, high money scenarios.

[BrokenCycle]

There have been many, many posts made in the tech and suggestions forums since the game was released and I don't think a single one of them has been acknowledged let alone implemented. So that is a dead end. TEW 2020 is an incomplete game that seems to have been abandoned by its creators in said incomplete state.

 

Yes, this is very annoying. A lot of posts on the Suggestions forum would be rather hard to implement but there's tons that are very minor that would help immensely. There's also some posts on balance changes that are almost never put in. It's very disheartening that all the fixes are bugs and removing some minor exploits. The game could use a lot of balancing adjustments. I would rather have Adam experiment and break the game than do nothing. Maybe something cool could come from it.

[Questlove]

Yes, this is very annoying. A lot of posts on the Suggestions forum would be rather hard to implement but there's tons that are very minor that would help immensely. There's also some posts on balance changes that are almost never put in. It's very disheartening that all the fixes are bugs and removing some minor exploits. The game could use a lot of balancing adjustments. I would rather have Adam experiment and break the game than do nothing. Maybe something cool could come from it.

 

It took literally months of posting and multiple patches to finally get something as simple as growth caps implemented or to get the product accurate for the #2 promotion in the US (you'd think a wrestling simulator would be able to get that right at the first time of asking). Anybody who expects something to get fixed at all, let alone in a timely manner, is clearly barking up the wrong tree with this game.

 

The best part is a lot of these things were talked about as far back as the beta, but people were dismissing it as "whining" because they assumed everything would be great by the full release or after a year of patching. That worked out great!

[TheChef]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BrokenCycle" data-cite="BrokenCycle" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52244" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's very disheartening that all the fixes are bugs and removing some minor exploits. The game could use a lot of balancing adjustments. I would rather have Adam experiment and break the game than do nothing. Maybe something cool could come from it.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Questlove" data-cite="Questlove" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52244" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It took literally months of posting and multiple patches to finally get something as simple as growth caps implemented or to get the product accurate for the #2 promotion in the US (you'd think a wrestling simulator would be able to get that right at the first time of asking). Anybody who expects something to get fixed at all, let alone in a timely manner, is clearly barking up the wrong tree with this game.<p> </p><p> The best part is a lot of these things were talked about as far back as the beta, but people were dismissing it as "whining" because they assumed everything would be great by the full release or after a year of patching. That worked out great!</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> I think a lot of people can agree that this game still isn't finished and that there has been no balancing work done. Furthermore, feedback, suggestions and complaints have been continually ignored. My feeling is that it's not going to happen and that the game we have (minus a few bug fixes) is the game as it will be.</p><p> </p><p> If that is the case, I would like some acknowledge of this from Adam or someone else at GDS. I want to know if they agree that the game is unbalanced and unfinished, or if they are happy with it as it stands. I keep holding out hope that it will be fixed, but if this is the game in its final state, I at least want to know that. Then, I can make a proper decision whether to play 2020 or go back to 2016, which although an inferior game, is at least properly balanced and viable for long-term play.</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheChef" data-cite="TheChef" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52244" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>There have been many, many posts made in the tech and suggestions forums since the game was released and I don't think a single one of them has been acknowledged let alone implemented. So that is a dead end. TEW 2020 is an incomplete game that seems to have been abandoned by its creators in said incomplete state.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Probably rightly so, most of the decisions they made are just caked into the bedrock and can't be undone without a full redesign. You can shine a turd all you want, but you're going to light a ton of resources on fire and all you'll have is a turd when you're done. I don't really understand why everybody gets so touchy when they get an opinion that's contrary to their own around here either. And the idea that making changes via the editor to your save is "cheating" according to the rank and file GDSers is a heck of an illumination on the headspace everybody is in across the pond and a complete reversal of everything the game was supposed to be about. </p><p> </p><p> I'm of the opinion that 2020 is at least a few steps back from 2016 in terms of playability, presentation, and mod creation. These should not be controversial at this point. They have been vocalized in the release thread, and were brought up all the way back to the development blog.</p>

[The Dynamite Sid]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Makhai" data-cite="Makhai" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52244" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>the idea that making changes via the editor to your save is "cheating" according to the rank and file GDSers is a heck of an illumination on the headspace everybody is in across the pond and a complete reversal of everything the game was supposed to be about. <p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah that's pretty startling to see I have to admit. It's impossible to believe that, for example, any mods or staff over at Paradox Interactive would take that sniffy attitude to their player base using console commands in Crusader Kings</p>

[Questlove]

Yeah that's pretty startling to see I have to admit. It's impossible to believe that, for example, any mods or staff over at Paradox Interactive would take that sniffy attitude to their player base using console commands in Crusader Kings

 

The condescending attitude of the developers was yet another thing that was made clearly apparent all the way back in beta. It should be no surprise the game ended up the way it did at this point.