Women’s Wrestling in the C-Verse

[JackNo]

Its not a great "fix" but I did notice when looking at New Workers? It seems several new women workers pop up more quickly than before. 

It does mean grabbing a handful of available vets and building up these new rookies as they come, but it might be fun. 

Again this doesn't resolve everything, but it's something that the new worker generation seems to address at least a bit. 

 

[alpha2117]

My biggest issue has and always has been that the C-verse feels stagnant.  I totally get that conceptually it's a world where the territory system never ended which in reality would lead to a world somewhat more of a throwback than ours.  In that scenario it's likely the ECW evolution may never have happened, it's likely the Womens Revolution would have happened but to a lesser extent as no company would have been likely to commit to what would have seemed a huge risk to push womens wrestling and potentially lose ground on your rivals etc etc.  It makes sense that the world is somewhat less evolved but some things are strange.

- Both Mexico and Japan are stagnant and under represented - no Exoticos, no Japanaese Hardcore/Deathmatch stuff, minimal Joshi stuff etc etc.  Both those areas feel very stagnant and the newest version didn't help the situation by killing the C-verse version of AAA - OLLIE.  Both areas are probably at least 3 companies down on where it would need to be to make the game feel like it represented a believable version of the world.

- No upstart booming fed like original ECW or AEW has ever really occurred in North America - neither has more niche stuff like CZW, Lucha Underground or SHIMMER.

- We live in a world where arguably the mere existence of Madison Eagles ended up snowballing into the Womens Revolution and ladies reaching the level of headlining a Wrestlemania and for Oceania to produce people like Rhea Ripley, Emma, The IIconics, Dakota Kai, Blair Davenport, Toni Storm, Harley Cameron, Shazza Mckenzie etc the fact that the region is so male centric is odd.

- No Matter of Pride style companies, No Effy, No Pollo Del Mar, No ASUKA, No Nyla Rose, No Giselle Shaw, No Sonny Kiss or any of the other openly queer talent - the closest we get is a Candy Lee style worker in the obscurity of New Zealand.  Our world has evolved and LGBTQI+ talent has emerged but in the C-Verse the closet door seems to be still largely closed.  This version of the game added more diverse options gender wise but didn't actually do much in regards to using them.

There are no doubt plenty of other similar issues that others have.  It's a great game and the base C-Verse is a decent base and the mod community adds so much but that decent base doesn't really feel as alive as it could.  People like willr0ck and WillyWillyWilly would confirm how much work it is to create a fantasy wrestling world from the ground up and nobody doubts Adam would have worked his butt off to create the original C-verse but I think most of us agree that every time a new iteration of the game comes out that we are a bit disappointed that the original universe of the game doesn't feature any real evolution of the world and that it feels less and less representative of reality.  Imagine if in this version a few simple things had happened

- A Madison Eagles type starts a Fed and Dojo in New South Wales - opening up the road to a Womens revolution.

- OLLIE not only survived but a more radical Mexican player opened with Exoticos. Minis and other quirky Mexican staples

-  A Queer friendly fed opens in the US

- A Shimmer or Shine type fed tries once again in the US after the failure of the previous Womens promotion.

- Someone experiments with an edgy fed in the US going down the ECW/CZW road

- 3 of Japanese feds open - One like DDT specialising in weird stuff, a Harder edged fed and another Joshi fed.

8 new feds with what would feel like fresh approaches in the C-verse but very much reflecting what happened in the real world offering not only fresh approaches to the game in the core Universe but making it feel alive 

     

  

[ace1193]

I maybe bring my fictional mod from pws which has huge women and a lgbt promotion in my mod it is in early access on pws but working on building it from ground up on tew 9 but excited was gonna make it discord exclusive which may get a early release with behind scenes stuff but once it matches pws will release it on discord first then on here make a thread nearer time but it will be a limited version as no africa or anything so if i do any african promotions on pws it will not be in tew 9 sadly but will make it as close as possible off sleep now will get back in morning to any replies!

[Matt_Black]

I did some counting. At the start of the game, not counting the avatars, there are a total of 172 male wrestlers with 2 years of experience or less. Female wrestlers? 16. If we search the database for "Yet To Debut", we get 113 male wrestlers. Women? NINE.

[Doctor Crunch]

18 minutes ago, Matt_Black said:

I did some counting. At the start of the game, not counting the avatars, there are a total of 172 male wrestlers with 2 years of experience or less. Female wrestlers? 16. If we search the database for "Yet To Debut", we get 113 male wrestlers. Women? NINE.

In terms of starting a fed from a quick count of a fresh January 1 Watcher save -

There are 45 unemployed women wrestlers in the world.

22 of them are in the USA

15 of them are in Japan

6 are in Mexico

2 are in Canada

There are 0 unemployed women wrestlers in the British Isles, Europe, India, Oceania.

Edited August 3 by Doctor Crunch

[Thane of Fife]

51 minutes ago, alpha2117 said:

- Someone experiments with an edgy fed in the US going down the ECW/CZW road

There are twelve promotions in the United States at the start of the data, and three of them are hardcore promotions. I could agree that these promotions are all kind of same-y, but what's the edginess that you think is missing? (Also, wasn't DAVE the C-Verse's ECW?)

[Matt_Black]

Yeah, I noticed that too. Now, admittedly, it's not as tough as in 2016, because of the Talk To Worker feature, so you can get some talent willing to work in your area, or in 2020, because there are actually a bunch of free pictures to make the Auto Quick Fill viable this year (though if you want a masked luchadora generated, you are out of luck).

I like having a rough narrative I can shape around in my head. Like, "Okay, we sign _____, then build them up in development before their debut on the main roster." You can't really DO that effectively with such a sparse selection of women wrestlers. It's hard to get excited about, "... Well, I'll just cheat and use the editor." If we're doing that, why not just give myself 100 million dollars and then set all my rivals' funds to 0?

[alpha2117]

8 minutes ago, Thane of Fife said:

There are twelve promotions in the United States at the start of the data, and three of them are hardcore promotions. I could agree that these promotions are all kind of same-y, but what's the edginess that you think is missing? (Also, wasn't DAVE the C-Verse's ECW?)

Yeah DAVE was but once it closed we were left without any natural replacement - the little Hardcore ones feel naff and dont have a real sense of life unlike something like CZW in the real world.  Theres no PWG or heck even something weird like Chikara - the US feels all samey.  The three things I suggested may work or may fail in the C-Verse but they would definitely make the C-Verse feel like it's alive and reflecting the changes that happened in the real world and that would logically be reflected in the wrestling world.  Honestly the 3 little Hardcore feds combining into 1 entity to try to grow would even make sense. I dont really care what happens I just would prefer the C-Verse to not feel stagnant where nobody ever really takes a chance. 

[John Lions]

My plan for my first save is to just pre-set some women-only dojos in every single region with a ton of graduates that can start pumping out women's wrestlers from day 1. I'll see if the world can create it's own "women's revolution".

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

I think for the CVerse to achieve a nationally relevant women's promotion groundwork needed to be laid probably in the 2013 CVerse data. I think there has been significant progress made, and there are more promising women's talent now than there were, but there aren't enough established women's wrestlers yet to support a nationally televised women's promotion and a thriving women's independent scene.

My impression is that most CVerse players support a gradual, more realistic change in-universe. I could very well be wrong and the player base may be different now than what it was in 2020.

I think we need a couple a few more years steady progress to really represent women's wrestling in the C-Verse. There just isn't enough established talent out there in TEW 2020 to really anchor a national-level American women's wrestling show and sustain the current C-Verse independent scene. 

QAW and 5SSW are great, but without a TV Deal, their player base will remain limited.

I don't think closing down EWA's women's division or poaching stars from ZEN or CZCW for an American national level women's wrestling program is the answer. I think you really need a national level women's wrestling program to elevate women in the C-Verse.

There are ways this could be better addressed better. The core issues behind lack of representation probably will take some time to fully address. 

I don't think there's support for adding at least 10-15 established Women's talents with no in-game history into the database. I could be wrong, though.

I think there are a lot more young women's wrestlers who could take the next step in a couple more game years, A lot of young women talent have entered the CVerse, and that's good -- but I don't think there are enough established talents right now to really put CVerse Women's wrestling on the same level as the men. 

I do think there has been significant progress made in every game since TEW 2016 and we're on track to have the Women on equal footing in the next game. Six years isn't a long time in the CVerse. 

[Doctor Crunch]

12 minutes ago, ColdBloodedSausageMaker said:

I think we need a couple a few more years steady progress to really represent women's wrestling in the C-Verse. There just isn't enough established talent out there in TEW 2020 to really anchor a national-level American women's wrestling show and sustain the current C-Verse independent scene. 

 

Except that we're not seeing steady progress. There were 53 unemployed women in TEW2020 default data compared to 45 in IX. Likewise TEW 2020 had female 23 wrestlers with 0-2 years of experience and IX only has 17. So we're not seeing "years of steady progress."  We're seeing "harder to play a women's fed in IX than 2020."

Which to reiterate, I care because I like the C-Verse and Adam doesn't owe me anything.

Edited August 3 by Doctor Crunch

[alpha2117]

47 minutes ago, ColdBloodedSausageMaker said:

I think for the CVerse to achieve a nationally relevant women's promotion groundwork needed to be laid probably in the 2013 CVerse data. I think there has been significant progress made, and there are more promising women's talent now than there were, but there aren't enough established women's wrestlers yet to support a nationally televised women's promotion and a thriving women's independent scene.

My impression is that most CVerse players support a gradual, more realistic change in-universe. I could very well be wrong and the player base may be different now than what it was in 2020.

I think we need a couple a few more years steady progress to really represent women's wrestling in the C-Verse. There just isn't enough established talent out there in TEW 2020 to really anchor a national-level American women's wrestling show and sustain the current C-Verse independent scene. 

QAW and 5SSW are great, but without a TV Deal, their player base will remain limited.

I don't think closing down EWA's women's division or poaching stars from ZEN or CZCW for an American national level women's wrestling program is the answer. I think you really need a national level women's wrestling program to elevate women in the C-Verse.

There are ways this could be better addressed better. The core issues behind lack of representation probably will take some time to fully address. 

I don't think there's support for adding at least 10-15 established Women's talents with no in-game history into the database. I could be wrong, though.

I think there are a lot more young women's wrestlers who could take the next step in a couple more game years, A lot of young women talent have entered the CVerse, and that's good -- but I don't think there are enough established talents right now to really put CVerse Women's wrestling on the same level as the men. 

I do think there has been significant progress made in every game since TEW 2016 and we're on track to have the Women on equal footing in the next game. Six years isn't a long time in the CVerse. 

What progress though?

Theres very little progress for Women in game and if anything some of the more experienced hands have retired making the Women's scene less interesting.

On the whole the C-verse as a whole is incredibly stagnant.

The mechanics of the game have evolved but the base world itself remains stuck in what feels like 1980. The world itself has changed radically in the last 50 years but the c-verse lacks any real sense of evolution or moving with the times.  

 

 

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

1 hour ago, Doctor Crunch said:

Except that we're not seeing steady progress. There were 53 unemployed women in TEW2020 default data compared to 45 in IX. Likewise TEW 2020 had female 23 wrestlers with 0-2 years of experience and IX only has 17. So we're not seeing "years of steady progress."  We're seeing "harder to play a women's fed in IX than 2020."

Which to reiterate, I care because I like the C-Verse and Adam doesn't owe me anything.

I do agree in that regard Adam could have done better with the 2022 data. It was also probably a mistake to only roll the C-Verse over to 2022.

There are certain areas where steps in the right direction were definitely made. ZEN now has two new women's wrestlers -- including a trans woman -- and ACPW also has two more women on the roster, USPW now has a female referee (Erin Lawrence). QAW added two new female referees and OLLIE added one -- all debuted in the new data. 

ZEN has always been a fan favorite company that usually has a dynasty or two going even though it's in a relatively remote location. ZEN embracing women's wrestling is huge and Woodchuck and Jendell in particular could become huge stars either in ZEN or USPW. 

Since TEW 2016, ZEN, CZCW and ACPW have all added women to the roster -- and USPW and CWA are both much bigger now than they were, giving women overall more places to work. I think the trajectory overall is good and I do think we'll see it in the next database. 

TEW 2020 was a huge step forward for women's wrestling in the CVerse and those debuts in particular will to elevate women's wrestling to a national level. I think that's the core issue here -- that women aren't presented on the same level as the men (in the main event of a national promotion) and I don't think a 2022 database was in a good position to do that. I love (especially) QAW and 5SSW, but they don't get a lot of the attention the larger promotions do.

 

 

Edited August 3 by ColdBloodedSausageMaker

[TOTKingNothing]

4 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

I did some counting. At the start of the game, not counting the avatars, there are a total of 172 male wrestlers with 2 years of experience or less. Female wrestlers? 16. If we search the database for "Yet To Debut", we get 113 male wrestlers. Women? NINE.

I was going to make an argument about how a women's revolution never started in the C-Verse, and it would have had to start in TEW 2016 at the latest to be in full swing now, but then I saw this comment and just YIKES. These are embarassing numbers, even for a 2 year time split between games. Maybe they really should have gone forward with a 4 year jump to make some of these concessions.

[alpha2117]

1 hour ago, TOTKingNothing said:

I was going to make an argument about how a women's revolution never started in the C-Verse, and it would have had to start in TEW 2016 at the latest to be in full swing now, but then I saw this comment and just YIKES. These are embarassing numbers, even for a 2 year time split between games. Maybe they really should have gone forward with a 4 year jump to make some of these concessions.

Or - they could have just done something like adding new Women and maybe a Womens Company

[GrindhouseArts]

Question: Can I create mods with the demo only? Or would something prevent me from exporting databases that function in the full game?

IX is clearly not for me, but I dig the editor and the new options. I also already have a fictional-realistic database that isn't rooted in the real word specifically and could easily be modified to fit the CVerse lore instead. Lots of luchadoras, young/yet to debut women, and several fully staffed all-female companies. The only thing that would take time/work are CVerse style pictures, but I think the new style is really easy to match. So would that be a thing I can do? Mod with the demo and get playable results for the full version?

[HamKing]

Putting a women's division in SWF if not TCW might not work.

I tried that in the beta with SWF and the auto booker wouldn't create any women's matches 

[Teasenitryn]

2 hours ago, TOTKingNothing said:

I was going to make an argument about how a women's revolution never started in the C-Verse, and it would have had to start in TEW 2016 at the latest to be in full swing now, but then I saw this comment and just YIKES. These are embarassing numbers, even for a 2 year time split between games. Maybe they really should have gone forward with a 4 year jump to make some of these concessions.

A four year jump would have given time for that to have developed some. Charlotte and Becky debuted in 2015 (main roster that is), their triple threat Mania main event was 2019. Mind you that was with a huge crossover star and Becky having caught lightning in a bottle when she broke her nose.

I think the frustration is that we are living in a world where the wrestling diversity has come along in leaps and bounds over the last ten years but cverse stays at the least a good five to ten behind it. I get the argument that the development would not have been there in that space of time but just like we didn't go into the pandemic in cverse lore things can be sped up, you would at least have expected SWF and TCW to have the beginnings of a women's division even if it is very basic we found gymnasts and sports stars and gave them rudimentary training while maybe some people who only really had DVDs in indy feds (for a real world example I knew of MsChif and Cheerleader Melissa long before any revolution) and so weren't known in the cverse world popped up. I had not factored in that CWA is among the big three so yeah we have that and USPW other than 5SSW and QAW but there is a very shallow talent pool to work with, though if the world does generate women faste rthan it used to and there are the free pictures for them that could go some small way towards it,

Still like I said in the Ollie thread, Adam has given us a bigger sandbox even if he hasn't built more sandcastles in it, I know cverse alt has a conversion and there is another coming, NDVerse is being hyped and the last TEW had a women's revolution mod and such, there is an argument in should we have to rely on modders but the modders will be there and we will have fun with the game as a whole.

Edited August 3 by Teasenitryn

[Self]

7 hours ago, alpha2117 said:

My biggest issue has and always has been that the C-verse feels stagnant.  I totally get that conceptually it's a world where the territory system never ended which in reality would lead to a world somewhat more of a throwback than ours. 

You've said this a few times and I'm not sure I agree. Or perhaps we have different definitions of the territory system. To me, that was when North America was split up into various territories and companies agreed to stick to those specific markets, mostly in the form of the NWA. In real life, this ended when Vince took WWF national and the NWA crumbled trying to keep up. In the Cverse, this ended when Richard Eisen did the same with SWF. The difference would be that SWF's expansion was a bit less global. Canada and the UK kept more of their own identities and had room for their own local promotions, whereas in the real world Vince just took Canada and BBC killed their own scene for being too 'working class'. 

My view is that the Cverse is a world where the Monday Night Wars never ended. Their versions of WWE & WCW are still going... only now more challengers have entered the fray. 

Cverse should be about variety, and providing lots of different classic options. In terms of women's wrestling, there should be a joshi promotion. There should be a SHIMMER style promotion. There should be a second SHIMMER sized promotion in a different country. Something with TV. Something without. There should be a top promotion where women and men are roughly equal (CWA isn't far off... if you cut their midcard bloat). There should be a top promotion with only a small, underappreciated women's division, and one with nothing at all. And yeah, there should be a healthy amount of unemployed women to give players options if they want to use them. There's no women's scene in UK or Oceania, and those seem like good places to do something fun. 

[Shooltra]

47 minutes ago, HamKing said:

Putting a women's division in SWF if not TCW might not work.

I tried that in the beta with SWF and the auto booker wouldn't create any women's matches 

For SWF, the easiest scenario is to include a women's division in RIPW. Since it is one of the smallest companies, you could hire many women who would settle as one of the bigger stars and with access to a weekly TV Show and a broadcast deal, you should be able to build a nice company on SWF with a few CWA/USPW steals and hope that by then, RIPW managed to get your women wrestlers to being near recognizable.

The biggest obstacle is that outside of CWA/USPW, many women are unimportant so the AI won't book them together.

[ace1193]

1 hour ago, GrindhouseArts said:

Question: Can I create mods with the demo only? Or would something prevent me from exporting databases that function in the full game?

IX is clearly not for me, but I dig the editor and the new options. I also already have a fictional-realistic database that isn't rooted in the real word specifically and could easily be modified to fit the CVerse lore instead. Lots of luchadoras, young/yet to debut women, and several fully staffed all-female companies. The only thing that would take time/work are CVerse style pictures, but I think the new style is really easy to match. So would that be a thing I can do? Mod with the demo and get playable results for the full version?

yep u can

[alpha2117]

1 hour ago, Self said:

You've said this a few times and I'm not sure I agree. Or perhaps we have different definitions of the territory system. To me, that was when North America was split up into various territories and companies agreed to stick to those specific markets, mostly in the form of the NWA. In real life, this ended when Vince took WWF national and the NWA crumbled trying to keep up. In the Cverse, this ended when Richard Eisen did the same with SWF. The difference would be that SWF's expansion was a bit less global. Canada and the UK kept more of their own identities and had room for their own local promotions, whereas in the real world Vince just took Canada and BBC killed their own scene for being too 'working class'. 

My view is that the Cverse is a world where the Monday Night Wars never ended. Their versions of WWE & WCW are still going... only now more challengers have entered the fray. 

Cverse should be about variety, and providing lots of different classic options. In terms of women's wrestling, there should be a joshi promotion. There should be a SHIMMER style promotion. There should be a second SHIMMER sized promotion in a different country. Something with TV. Something without. There should be a top promotion where women and men are roughly equal (CWA isn't far off... if you cut their midcard bloat). There should be a top promotion with only a small, underappreciated women's division, and one with nothing at all. And yeah, there should be a healthy amount of unemployed women to give players options if they want to use them. There's no women's scene in UK or Oceania, and those seem like good places to do something fun. 

What I mean by Territory System is that the C-Verse is what would have happened if Wrestlemania didn't work that well.  If it worked okay but wasn't the big hit it was here.  The WWF never became the juggernaut it did in our world and what is effectively the C-Verses Jim Crockett Promotions & WCCW survived and thrived.  Smaller territories were swallowed up or folded but the 3 biggish companies continued on without changing the way they worked or booked much.   In Canada their version of Stampede and IWA also thrived for a while before merging into one entity.  In Britain & Australia those long running TV show feds didn't fold under the WWF onslaught and continued on too rather than those territories floundering for a while.  The other difference is Japan and Mexico seemingly never having the boom that sees them as they are today in the Real World.

In this version of the world people have held onto the Territory style thinking where changing their formula runs such a big risk and their positions are somewhat fragile that nobody seems overly willing to try something new like Womens Wrestling being pushed.   Nobody took a risk like the Attitude era or the NWO angle either because nobody wants to risk alienating their base.  Instead we got a very basic straight down the line sort of wrestling world where the major players dont really change very much over an extended period of time. Which is very much like the pre WWF expansion world behaviour wise.  In that era Womens wrestling was rarely respected or pushed.

I actually sort of understand the thinking behind why the world is the way it is but I also think the longer they keep the base game world as it is the more it feels stagnant and somewhat dull.  The mechanics of the game are good and mods help but that core world doesn't feel like it reflects modern wrestling or give people the varied experience and ways of playing that it should.

[Rhysrob]

I appreciate all forms of pro-wrestling, and the women's wrestling scene has always fascinated me, especially observing its struggle and eventual revolution. It's encouraging to see so many people advocating for more diversity in the CVerse, making the extra effort put into mods even more special. While mods currently offer a solution by allowing users to create the world they want to see, it's important to remember that the CVerse is the default product—much like the base game in The Sims franchise. You wouldn't buy an expansion pack just to introduce women into that game.

There's also a bit of cognitive dissonance because the last installment promised a women's wrestling revolution, highlighted by CZCW and ACPW becoming integrated, despite the closure of AAA. Additionally, TCW and SWF have had women's championship belts in the default data for as long as I can remember. The USPW and CWA women's divisions are so stacked that any company would have created a tag division for them by now. You'd think these strong divisions would have sparked a surge in women's wrestling globally in the CVerse, with indie companies popping up around the world. It wouldn't be surprising to see veteran wrestlers added who hadn't been on the CVerse radar for the past decade... You're also telling me the equality fighter JRO didn't open a company to replace AAA? Okay...

You'd also expect SWF, TCW, and other major companies to try to rival USPW and CWA with their own women's divisions. I can easily envision SWF having a Vixxen's division focused on sex appeal, while TCW would emphasize wrestling skills. Perhaps they would start by introducing female dojo graduates in this edition.

Moreover, just experimenting with the filters for women's wrestlers reveals a lack of diversity.

In the meantime, mods are the current solution, and I want to thank everyone working on renders, workers, companies, etc. Your efforts truly make the game worth playing. For the next installment, it might be beneficial to involve more people in testing and developing the CVerse lore, especially those with different perspectives and desires. This could help balance things out.

Edited August 3 by Rhysrob

[GrindhouseArts]

23 minutes ago, alpha2117 said:

Nobody took a risk like the Attitude era or the NWO angle either because nobody wants to risk alienating their base.  Instead we got a very basic straight down the line sort of wrestling world where the major players dont really change very much over an extended period of time. Which is very much like the pre WWF expansion world behaviour wise.  In that era Womens wrestling was rarely respected or pushed.

This reasoning doesn't really make much sense to me. Lots of things regarding women have changed since the territories days of wrestling. In the 1970s women were not encouraged to go into STEM fields, for example. There was no 'revolution' from within the field though. It's simply that the general attitudes of society have changed, and people went 'wait a second, why shouldn't women be engineers?' I find it very hard to believe that society moved on to 2020 (or 2022/24, whichever it is in-game) and nobody ever extended the current day thinking to wrestling. "Female heads of state? Cool. Female engineers? Cool. Female wrestlers? HELL NO." ??? That's just not how it works. Wrestling, more than any other sport, reflects the culture around it, so unless the CVerse exists in a world that is stuck in the past as a whole, there would be womens wrestling similar to real life. Can women even vote in the Cworld? lol

[alpha2117]

12 minutes ago, GrindhouseArts said:

This reasoning doesn't really make much sense to me. Lots of things regarding women have changed since the territories days of wrestling. In the 1970s women were not encouraged to go into STEM fields, for example. There was no 'revolution' from within the field though. It's simply that the general attitudes of society have changed, and people went 'wait a second, why shouldn't women be engineers?' I find it very hard to believe that society moved on to 2020 (or 2022/24, whichever it is in-game) and nobody ever extended the current day thinking to wrestling. "Female heads of state? Cool. Female engineers? Cool. Female wrestlers? HELL NO." ??? That's just not how it works. Wrestling, more than any other sport, reflects the culture around it, so unless the CVerse exists in a world that is stuck in the past as a whole, there would be womens wrestling similar to real life. Can women even vote in the Cworld? lol

Totally agree - Women, Events based around Openly LGBTQI+ people, Japanese Hardcore, Mexican Mini's and Exoticos - the C-Verse doesn't really embrace the realities of Modern Wrestling or even some of the traditional elements - It's not awful but it isn't as varied or interesting as it really should be.