GatorBait19
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Posts posted by GatorBait19
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I disagree with that, Rogan may have a chance to shine occasionally when a high level wrestler or BJJ practitioner can pull something off on someone they are light years ahead of, but most of the time that high level technique is stifled by the other aspects of MMA. So, most of the time we see good strikers throwing one-two's and then getting way the hell out of the way, or good wrestlers trying to double leg guys off the fence.
There may be more to consider, but it's all watered down to the basics. In boxing, the commentators have to go way more in-depth to explain the intricacies of high level striking.
Not only that, but guys like Max Kellerman can really bring the drama by saying something profound and intelligent at an appropriate time and make great moments in boxing more memorable. Goldberg has only ever managed to make his screw ups memorable.
sorry i had to do this
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Here is the biggest question for the C's
win or lose do you bring back Ray Allen next year?
I say yes, just at a much reduced price. He is consistent shooter who is going to knock down high 40% of his shots. Thing that scares me about the C's after this year though is their age.
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If by "deliver" you mean "Patricio Freire is going to put on a clinic on the feet and from the bottom but still lose a unanimous decision because he got taken down since judges are dumb" then yes, it probably will.
I'm pretty sure Bellator has a championship's clause.
Always hated how one fighter could destroy the other, but because he can't stop a takedown the judges rule against him
Also another thing I hated that Joe said was about Brilz and how he could be apart of the future of the Light Heavyweight divison...... Joe he's 35......
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Actually, Boozer ain't getting a max deal anytime soon. The market can't support it. He's a very good player, but he's not a "franchise" type guy, and so Utah isn't going to give him max money and there aren't any teams that particularly want to build around Carlos Boozer as their top guy. Boozer tested the water last year, found out he wouldn't do any better, and signed an extension. After his mediocre playoff showing, he has a tough time convincing anybody he's anything but a #2 threat.
The Thunder could afford paying Boozer (or Bosh or Lee) and it would be a significant upgrade from Nenad Kristic, but since Durant is most definitely going to be the face of that franchise, I'm not sure how much they want to pay a big guy to be the #2 option and rebounder. To whoever said he'll "get there," he just won a freaking scoring title. He is one of the elite players in the game NOW, and he's 21 years old. The thing is, he's stuck with his rookie contract through next season, so right now the Thunder's highest paid guy for next season is Nick Collison at 6.5 million. They have cap space coming out of their ears and they won 50 games last year with a young core in place including Westrbrook, Durant, Green and Harden. Only their status as a small-market explains why they haven't been in the conversation for top free agents.
But with the economy in the state it is team's are a lot less willing to pay max money, particularly for unproven or above-average guys. While teams have made mistakes, Alan Houston probably being the biggest, teams are starting to realize that if they spend star money on guy's who aren't stars, it's real tough to compete. If 1/3 of your cap space is on a guy who doesn't produce, you're sunk. You can't trade him, you can't go out and sign somebody new, you've got this albatross around your neck until the contract runs out (see also: Stephon Marbury, anywhere he played).
Oh, and yes, Howard will make league max, offense or no. He is the best center in the NBA. When you are the best at your position, you can demand superstar money.
He didn't sign an extension, he just accepted his player option (I use the sense that an extension is a new contract) and tried to get traded but no one could take on his 12 million dollars.
Houston performed for the first two years of the deal
just failed the rest . I believe the Thunder could be a player for Lee at 27 coming off a year which he did 20ppg and 11rpg he'd be a welcome addition. Good thing for the Thunder is after this season coming up they only have 3 million on there cap (they have more, but they'd have to execpt options and sign players. which they will no doubt). They then could sign free agents to join their team and then sign their guys afterwards and have a nice set team.I like the Thunder if they could get a big man (Bosh, Lee or Amire) they could compete with the Lakers year in and year out for the number 1 spot in the west.
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You guys are being retarded. The 'max deal' guys aren't 'max deals' because oif their true worth or value or whatever.
it's because there are enough bad GMs out there that are willing to pay that amount that the market sustains thos econtracts.
Whether you want to admit it or not, Bosh, Amare, Dirk, Boozer... they're all getting max deals.
And besides..the max deal wannabe's who get paid aren't what kill a team..it's the cap space they waste on subpar guys.
Giving big money to a Bosh won't kill you. But giving that money (or even close) to someone like Ben Gordon or Sam Dalembert or Allan Houston, that's murder.
yeah I don't think either of us care, I believe we were just stating (to each other) who we believed are guys who deserve to get max deals.
I have never understood why you come into conversations and start spewing out the mouth something we never mentioned. I believe we both know GM are going to be dumb and give out max deals to make sure they get their guy. CQ brought up the fact he believes the Max is meant for certain people and then I gave my list of who I thought were Max guys.
Not for you to run in like a damn chicken with his head cut off talking about why guys get max deals.
when Vince Carter gets a max deal and someone goes "What the hell were the Nets thinking" then you can come in with your knowledge
CQI13
He's not a max player guy (much like Boozer and Bosh). Still, they'll get their money somehow. His best bet would be a sign and trade, or he loses a bunch of money (the team you play for is the one that can give you the most money, right?). But then, Phoenix is stuck with someone equal or lesser than Amar'e for the same money.
Letting him walk would upset Nash (they got this far this year, but I don't think he'd want to rebuild).
What..... no way...... CQ already said what you felt you needed to comment on, very interesting.
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I may have Miller confused, but it was whoever they signed the summer they also signed Dalembert.
you mean brand, which I can agree with. The year before he signed the contract his numbers had dropped and a shoulder injury the first year of the contract didn't help.
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Howard could be, but he needs more offensive game. Durant will get there. Williams probably more than Paul.
For a lot of the other guys, look at what they'll be making at the end of their career. If Duncan got the max, would he still be worth 20 million a year at 39 or 40? Rose hasn't done nearly enough to be a max guy. Is he a very good player? Absolutely. And as much as I love Lee, someone will overpay for him. Just like the Sixers did with Andre Miller and Samuel Dalembert (don't think either was a max deal, but they were compensated too well for their talents). Dalembert especially was getting 2nd man money when he was the third best player.
These max deals are a lot like the HoF (which is a joke in basketball, but that's another topic entirely).
It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Very Good to almost Great. A lot of these guys won't be worth the 20 million a year at the end (see: Shaquille O'Neal, Jermaine O'Neal, Tracy McGrady). And two of those guys probably weren't worth it to begin with.
To me, the max deals should be reserved for the elite. By definition, it shouldn't be that many of them.
Tracy at one point was a max deal guy. J. O'Neal just went downhill and quick
but there is also a difference between Max Deal and Team Max deal.
Also when did the 76ers over pay Miller? I don't ever remember him getting a contract from them, at least not max.
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Okay, but that doesn't really prove anything. There's a lot less going on in boxing than there is with MMA. Boxing is always held at a vertical base, with the exception of knockdowns. Therefore the commentators really only need to understand less complex stand-up fighters.
This is me taking nothing away from boxing, but it's pretty understood that boxing isn't nearly as complex as MMA. And really it's silly to even compare them in any arena of thought.
As I said above, Rogan knows enough about the sport and fights for both of them. Goldberg takes care of the casual fans, fun facts, and sponsors. That's the way it should be. I don't want to hear Rogan soullessly say something about Papa John's pizza. I want to hear Mike Goldberg put them pizzas over like they saved his life.
lmao, well they pay for his paycheck
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Rogan has done PBP before and it wasn't good. He's also been on record numerous times stating how great Goldberg is as it and that he never, ever, wants to be in that chair again. He talks about how it's a totally different world than being just the color commentator. Which it is.
okay, then I will continue to listen to Rogan
. Most of the time me and a friend just mute it and talk ourselves. -
LeBron is a max deal guy (though he'll probably take a 3 year deal this time, get max money next time). Wade is a max deal guy. Gilbert Arenas is NOT a max deal guy.
And while Bosh & Amar'e are not Gilbert Arenas, they are not in LeBron and Wade's level either.
Okay so to you there are only three max guys in the NBA (LeBron, Kobe, and Wade?)
Also think about when Gilbert got the deal he was one year removed from scoring 28pg, 6 AST, and 4RB. Now he knee injuries caught up to him, but there is no doubt he could still put numbers like that up (depending on if he plays again).
Once again Amire is a 20ppg 9Rpg type of guy (IMHO) all three are worth max deal. (granted Arenas I am dating back to when the contract was given to him not now)
Here are players (to me) who are max guys
Lebron James
D. Wade
C. Bosh
D. Howard
S. Nash
K. Bryant
K. Durant
C. Paul
D. Williams (10 apg + 18 ppg)
C. Anthony
T. Duncan
A. Stoudemire
R. Rondo (Young, improved each year, and against the cavs looked like the best player on the court)
D. Rose (young but getting better each year, plus what he has done in the playoffs)
D. Lee (the sleeper in this year's free agent class)
D. Nowitzki
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You should never, NEVER have a commentary team without at least one professional broadcaster. People rag on Mauro and Goldy, but they hold the broadcasts together. They aren't there to provide insight, they're commentators; they keep the pace, sell the product, sell the fighters and do play-by-play.
The Rogans, Shamrocks, Mirs, Florians etc are the colour guys...they provide the insight and 'know-how'. I've seen Bas Rutten (IMO, the best colour man in the business) do play-by-play while another fighter did the colour and it was HORRIBLE. Disjointed, lacking flow...just horrible.
Rogan is perfect because he's a superfan. He know's more UFC history than most fighters I've met. Goldy is perfect too, for his role. I don't particularly care for him, but his job is to SELL SELL SELL!!! the UFC brand and fighters to casual fans, and he does a damn good job of it.
My all-time favourite commentary team was 'The Fight Professor' Stephan Quadros and Bas Rutten when they did 2H2H, Pride etc.
Sorry Daffanka, but as someone who grew up listening to 'Sensei' Will Vanders commentating on K-1 for Eurosport, 'The Voice' is a breath of fresh air for me; definitely a guilty pleasure.
He's also an awesome guy in person, very knowledgeable and funny as hell. GOODNIGHT IRENE!!!
They need a host which Rogan gives (remember he did Fear Factor). I think there is a difference between host and broadcaster. Broadcaster is someone who tells you things like who won. Host give you insight and inform you on different aspects (like Rogan) he entertains the crowd while giving facts and explaining things. Rogan plus a fighter would make a great team.
I Love Stephan Quadros though.
But also if we are going to get a fighter as an annoucer I want someone who isn't going to pull punches. I hate when Rogan and Goldberg say "Fighter A is really tearing into Fighter B" when fighter A isn't really landing anything big and B is blocking most of it.
For example (now I am doing this from the best of memory so I could be mistaken)
Rampage vs Evans, Evans rocked Rampage, but they don't talk about how Rampage didn't fall, wasn't knocked out, and didn't lose compsure. He got rocked and lost his footing, but when Rampage rocked Evans all it is was "Ohh, Evans took a shot".......... okay so you are saying Rampage got rocked and Evan's was just a shot
I just hate how they get on one guys side and make him look dominate. Then what happens is the average joe listens to this and they take that guys side. Then if there is a difference on the scorecard than Rogan and Goldberg's people question it and go... "Hey, but, how, Joe and Mike said it was fighter B who won, not A"
I can see why a lot of people got pissed at Nog, personally I thought it was a good matchup that could have gone either way. Like I said though, the average Joe listens to Mike and Joe and think Brilz dominated all three rounds and should have one 30-27.
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He's not a max player guy (much like Boozer and Bosh). Still, they'll get their money somehow. His best bet would be a sign and trade, or he loses a bunch of money (the team you play for is the one that can give you the most money, right?). But then, Phoenix is stuck with someone equal or lesser than Amar'e for the same money.
Letting him walk would upset Nash (they got this far this year, but I don't think he'd want to rebuild).
They could get a trade exempt. for him. Similar to the Magic last year with Hedo, you trade a player for money pretty much to use in another trade. Problem is I don't know how it works, how you get one, or if the team the Suns would trade would have one (Magic have one
). I do know it only last a year.Also I agree with Boozer not being a max guy, but you don't see Bosh as a max guy?
He's 26 (wont be 27 till March of next year), he's a double digit guy (20 points and 10 rebounds) and his numbers imrpove every year. He's a high % type of guy who can shoot the 3 and make FT. You put him and Howard on the same team you're talking about the Twin Towers all over again.
I think Bosh is a def. max type of player (IMHO)
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Goldberg does a perfect job IMO.
You have to understand that MMA is still a new sport and not everyone watching knows what they are watching.
Thus, he messes up, asks questions that a new fan would ask, etc and Rogan explains things.
I just think someone with MMA experience (who has fought in a UFC fight or 2) would be better. I think (IMO) that Rogan and Goldberg both at times will say things to make one fight look better than then other.
But a real fighter (once again some who has fought in the ring) would be able to explain it better. So even if they added a thrid announcer to the team to more explain what Fighter A is feeling right now and what his next move should be or what Fighter B is doing (etc.)
Would be more entertaining then a comedian and show host
(and yes I know Rogan has a brown belt in BJJ, and a Black in Taekwondo)
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Can someone explain to me why M. Goldberg is an announcer for MMA?
Listening to the announcing of all PPV it's pretty much Rogean talking and Goldberg at the end just restating what Joe said. I always hoped the would replace Mike with a true MMA former fighter and let Joe be the host.
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Its impossible to anoint one man as the greatest of any one sport. Jordan, Ruth, Gretzky, etc.
All of these men are great and clearly the greatest of their generation.
However Ruth didn't have to deal with coast to coast travel, night games, television, 24/7 media, 100 years of honing the sport to a perfection.
Pujols didn't have to deal with the large parks, a smaller pool of talent concentrated on a smaller number of teams,
The argument that Ruth is the greatest ever because he was a great pitcher as well has nothing to do with it. How many of these high school and college pitchers get convereted before they ever get the chance to throw an MLB pitch. Ruth was good, he was great but how would he do with scouting, with working out, with travel schedules. Ruth and other players of his era such as Cobb weren't nice guys a lot of the time. The NY media gets on A Rod's case for AN affair? What would they do to Ruth with his affairs and alleged wife beatings? Not to mention his flashy spending. What would they do to Cobb for his abuse, racist actions. Not too mention how he used to slide in spikes up etc.
Each generation has its advantages and its disadvantages. We can't compare the 1970 NFL QB's to the QB's of today and that game has changed in only 40 years and 16 game seasons (less before I know). Imagine how a game like Baseball with over a 150 years of history behind it and 100's of games per team a year has changed throughout the years.
Anytime people get into an argument that Pujols, A Rod, Doc, Santana, etc aren't as good or the other side that their better is just a silly argument that can only lead into whatever style of play the debators prefer.
I'm just glad that 150 years later we got guys as talented as Pujols, A Rod, etc and that these guys pay respects to the Ruths and Musials of the past.
uhh, I don't think he'd have a problem with that part
http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad360/Flashman_album/misc/tigerbolt-Hot_20dogs_20and_20beer_s.jpg
But I agree, I think it is nearly impossible to compare players of different gens. to each other.
I just think Ruth was probably the best (all-around hitter) of all-time.
3rd in HR's (cough Bonds)
10th in batting
2nd in RBI's
1st in Slugging %
2nd OBP%
1st OPS%
4th in runs
6th in Total Bases
3rd in BB
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Disagree on the Howard part. He dropped 20s at a few times, his season stats aren't baffling, only if lower than Turk.. he was "there" so to speak. Just not enough there. He is overpaid, inconsistent no doubt about it but he DID step up. He brought it, just not when they needed him the most(which is essentially what you said at the beginning).
His role was largely overcompensated, they should've seen what role he had in the Raptors and Nets. He was the running boat but clearly neither of the teams went anywhere much. But he shouldn't be completely thrown to the wolves is what I'm saying. Abysmal signing as you said, the bad egg being more on the shoulders of the Magic higher-ups and what they prepped for him.
Did you mean Carter?
Carter had better stats then Hedo did, he had a higher FG% then the last two years Hedo was with the Magic and a better FT% as well. (the 3 was only of by 1%).
I didn't understand how Carter was the best Offensive weapon for the Magic game 1,2,3 and 6 but couldn't score in 4 and 5 our only 2 wins.
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Along with clutch doesn't composure come into play. Carter has show he's been clutch in the past games. You could say he lost his composure shooting the two FT.
Composure plays just a big of a factor as anything. QB lose composure and Pitchers lose it, so wouldn't composure be an add on with clutch?
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I do not buy into the train of thought that the players today were leaps and bounds better than the players of the past. If that was the case why has nobody hit .400 since Ted Williams?
You would think with the pitching mound being lowered, some players being on roids, pitchers being in the major leagues that would never have made it to the majors even twenty years ago, that someone would be good enough to hit .400.
And yet nobody has. So to answer your question, I think Babe Ruth would have been just as good now as he was before. Is there any way to prove such a statement? Well no but with sports there will always be a what if. What if Rocky Marciano fought Ali, who would win? There is just no way of knowing.
lol I was talking about as a pitcher, as a hitter he probably have better stats, babe Ruth was probably all around the best hitter in baseball history. He had a high average (believe in the top 20 in baseball history) great power (in an age where parks were much bigger) his only problem was he wasn't truely and athlete just to big and couldn't run well.
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Disagree on the Howard part. He dropped 20s at a few times, his season stats aren't baffling, only if lower than Turk.. he was "there" so to speak. Just not enough there. He is overpaid, inconsistent no doubt about it but he DID step up. He brought it, just not when they needed him the most(which is essentially what you said at the beginning).
His role was largely overcompensated, they should've seen what role he had in the Raptors and Nets. He was the running boat but clearly neither of the teams went anywhere much. But he shouldn't be completely thrown to the wolves is what I'm saying. Abysmal signing as you said, the bad egg being more on the shoulders of the Magic higher-ups and what they prepped for him.
C's have been the best team in the east for three years now. the reason the magic got passed them last year was because of the simple fact that KG wasn't in the lineup. That means Orlando us still 2 and Cavaliers 3.
The key to the magic offense is Howard, he has an offensive game (granted not where it should be for all the hype people give him). When teams are forced to double team Howard it allows for the quick passes to one of the open men on the perimeter
But hands down C's proved they were the better team and no not because hedo wasn't there.
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Well Babe Ruth was one of the better pitchers in baseball before he became a full time outfielder. That is something that Albert can never claim to be true.
lol different time, how would he fair now? Remember most pitcher stats back then are better than those of todays, pitchera aren't pitching every three days and now have a pitch count.
Plus we were talking about hitting not who can do the most, silly rabbit lmao (jk bhk)
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The house that ruth built use to be bigger (many forget those black stands had people in them and the legends park and statues were in the field of play).
Homeruns are sexy it's what people want.
Also I hate when people say this player is one of the best ever. How can you compare B. Ruth to A. Pojuls?
Babe played less games a year, he played in bigger ball parks. I think when people compare players to others of different times you have to take fact of this.
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Seriously you can't watch this:
and argue whether clutch exists. Two huge baskets and a steal in the last 30 seconds that's the difference between winning and losing.
was that to me? I didn't argue about clutch.
Clutch does exist, think Brady, Kobe, the shot Lebron made last year against the magic to win or send it to overtime. Maybe what he means by clutch is it doesn't exist because anyone can be clutch? but you'd have to ask him that one.
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Also last thing, people who say Hedo not being there was the difference for the Magic I give some points
1) We won 7 more games in the regular season this year
2) Magic only gave up one more point per game on average than last year
4) Our points per game went up by one this season
3) The C's vs Magic last year went 7 games with the Magic winning game 7 up there in 09 playoffs. KG didn't play in that series.
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Being "clutch" goes far beyond game winning shots. It involves toughness on offense and defense, individually and as a team. On a team like the Lakers, any guy could get the game-winner on a given night. If you have a lead and the other team starts making a run, being clutch can be the difference between holding your composure and answering or letting the other team back into the game. If you're behind, being clutch means playing tough defense and creating opportunities for yourself to get back into the game.
There's a reason that the Lakers are winners and the Clippers are losers, and a lot of times it comes down to: the Lakers made plays when they had to, and the Clippers didn't. All the talent in the world can't buy you a championship. You need to have desire, that swagger, that belief that you are the best. "Clutch" is a measure of that desire.
That and the fact the Clippers have pretty much sucked. Lately I give it to them for spending money, but they still have a crap load of holes plus horrible coaching.
A better example could have been the Wiz (a couple years ago) vs the Lakers
Wiz just didn't hit key shots (like the magic this year and finals last year) it really hurts not having a clutch player.
just failed the rest 
. I believe the Thunder could be a player for Lee at 27 coming off a year which he did 20ppg and 11rpg he'd be a welcome addition. Good thing for the Thunder is after this season coming up they only have 3 million on there cap (they have more, but they'd have to execpt options and sign players. which they will no doubt). They then could sign free agents to join their team and then sign their guys afterwards and have a nice set team.
The Official MMA Discussion Thread
in The Dog Pound
Posted
I loved the NBA players segment, I get what Goldie is for. He is the presentation factor for UFC.