GatorBait19

June 23, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LoganRodzen" data-cite="LoganRodzen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That is a funny coincidence. Considering I didn't really pay close attention to that game was it really good defense or just bad shooting?</div></blockquote> I think it was a mixture of both. Both teams didn't want to make mistakes on Defense and with that some shots were forced. Overall it was just two teams playing their butts off to try to win a title.

June 23, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LoganRodzen" data-cite="LoganRodzen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Legitimate question for the basketball fanatics... I watched like two games of the NBA Finals - the game where Ray Allen missed like every shot after setting a record and then the final game. My question is... was that the lowest scoring game 7 ever? It seemed insanely low when I was barely watching in the 4th quarter. Being in the 70's was really odd I thought.</div></blockquote> Funny you asked that, Tampa Tribune's rival company, the St. Pete Times, just did an article about it a couple of days ago <a href="http://www.tampabay.com/sports/lowest-scoring-game-7s-in-nba-history/1103280" rel="external nofollow">http://www.tampabay.com/sports/lowest-scoring-game-7s-in-nba-history/1103280</a>

June 22, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That's why a guy like Lebron is so attractive to play with for these guys. He's so unselfish. In crunch time, the Cavs ran a lot of pick n roll. And Lebron never hesitated to pass; unfortunately he was passing to Antawn Jamison and Anderson Varajao. If the big man on the other end of those passes is a guy like Bosh or Amare it's a huge difference.</div></blockquote> I'm afraid how good Amare would be in a slower paced offense and without Nash. Amare skills are there no doubt, when the Suns moved to a more defensive style of play (not for long of course) his numbers dropped across the board.

June 22, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="CQI13" data-cite="CQI13" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I did clarify later that it wasn't a complete list, and that it also contained a recency bias (as most of these off the cuff lists tend to have). But again, with all that, doesn't LeBron end up getting excluded?</div></blockquote> I think so. When you do a top 10 list all-time there are somethings we all need to keep in mind. First, no list will ever be the same. Second, It's hard to compare players of today, to ones of the past. Third, Championships do define a career. Like Lazor said, Marino is one of the best QB's in the entire history of the NFL. Without that Superbowl ring though he gets overshadowed by the likes of Manning, Farve, Brady, Joe M, and Elway. Not because each one is far and ahead of him, but because they all have Superbowls on a finger. Lebron, is an immensely talented player. Just like Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Elgin Baylor, John Stockon were all talented as well, but with out rings their careers aren't horrible, just not complete. Lebron is still young (25) and still has at least 8 years left in him. In today's day and age I don't think 1 title puts him in the top ten with players like Kareem, Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Russell, Bird, Magic, but 2 of 3 would to me.

June 22, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I actually think that Orlando would be a good fit for Bosh AND they have a ton to give back. And if Bosh doesn't want to be a sidekick, he needs to have his head examined. Because he's not good enough to carry a team to a title.</div></blockquote> He showed that with the Raptors. I don't think any single person is good enough and Bosh has to realize that. In today's market the only place he could really go that would make him the go to guy is Raptors, Nets, Bobcats. There might be others, but I can't think of them at this moment. Every team right now has a player they run through. Magic he would be a big offensive key, but he would still remain a side kick/partner because Howard is King in Orlando. The Magic could easily give Bosh a max deal (S&T) and take Hedo's contract without really losing any talent. No one in Orlando believes that Carter, Bass, Gortat were guys that would stick hear long. Even last year we believe that the signing of Bass might be, but the moment the resigned Gortat everyone looked to this year. Most people in the NBA don't even believe that Smith brought these guys in to stay past the one year. Raptors could get Gortat, Carter (I know odd), and Bass plus a pick and the Magic get Hedo and Bosh (resigned to max deal) Carter would either be bought out or play for just one year. Though if he is bought out I could see him returning to Orlando at a much reduced price. Gortat and Bass are young talented big men who would give the Raptors a quick rebuild.

June 22, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I suppose the Raptors would get what they could out of the deal, but I still don't see how Bosh makes them (LA) better. I don't care about his stats because in LA he'd be the second or third option most nights. I don't care that he defends other PFs well because Pau defends PFs and they'd need Bosh to defend C's most night. Bosh is a great guy but this is one of those fantasy league deals that looks good on paper but doesn't make sense once they guys are on the floor together. HAving two big men who are so similar creates issues ( Minny with Jefferson and Love for instance). Bynum is a perfect fit because he's a banger and a defender with nice touch around the basket who contributes even if he's not scoring. I don't see Bosh in the same mold. The Lakers need a starting PG and to blow up that bench. Do that. WHy go get a long, talented, offensive-minded PF when you already have one of those?</div></blockquote> I can agree with some of those points. I personally think Orlando would be a great fit for Bosh, not because I like Orlando. Howard and Bosh have teamed together before with the US basketball team, they would instantly become a inside threat. Magic to compete need another big man who can take pressure off of Howard. Also, Raptors might be a little scared by a deal that would involve Bynum. He is about to go under the knife. Big thing is will Bosh want to be someones sidekick? I don't think he will and in Orlando and LA (or anywhere with Lebron) that's what'd he be. Also, I personally believe the NBA offseason is one of the most thrilling in sports. So much can happen in just a moment.

June 22, 2010

One thing I have wondered. What are peoples thoughts about biggest fall off for career? This could be because of injury, rapid skill decline, etc.

The two big ones in recent memory (to me) are Grant Hill and J. O'Neal

Hill just the leg problems, but before that he was a 20/7/6 guy with nice defense.

O'Neal was a all-star big man who could score, rebound, and block shots.

Injuries just hit these two hard.

June 22, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Y'know...I've never understood this rumor. First off, from Toronto's standpoint, what do they get out of it? The only desirable commodity the Lakers would trade would be Bynum. So if they trade Bosh and Hedo (dumping his contract would be a must) they get back what? Bynum, Luke Walton, and Sasha? A hodgepodge of late round picks? Based on your example alone there's going to so many better offers out there. Secondly, the reason Pau is so effective is because he has a legit center to play next to who can handle all the 'heavy lifting' of defending the biggest player, interior rebounding, blocking shots at the rim. Just look at the recent series with the Celtics and how much more effective Pau was this year as opposed to 08 when Bynum wasn't around. Bosh is a great player, but he's very similar to Pau. Why would the Lakers trade for someone to do a lot of things Pau does so well already?</div></blockquote> Bosh is a 20/10 guy who plays defends other PF well. At 6'10 and Gasol 7'0 they would make a very talented twin towers. There is no doubt this would make the Lakers better and a reason is simple, Bynum is often injured Center who can still develop into something. Bosh on the other hand is already a proven player who will give you 70 games a year of 20/10 rebounds. I do agree that for the Raptors a trade to the Lakers wouldn't benefit them. Bosh could leave for another team and the Raptors would get nothing. A trade with the Lakers would at least net you Bynum and maybe get rid of Hedo. There are much better offers I am sure for Bosh, but in the end it's up to him where he goes. Raptors are the ones who have to play ball if they want anything. Look at the Magic last year, they traded Hedo for what... an 8 million dollar trade exempt. Got nothing in return for the man for the year, but that 8 million dollars could help them out this year when trading for something else. Raptors tried a quick fix to win so they could interest Bosh in staying. It didn't work and now they have to find a way to at least get something in return for their best player.

June 22, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Apology accepted. <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote> no problem <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> I as much as I think the Lakers will be contenders for Bosh this year. I also believe the Magic and the talent they stocked up will be contenders to make big trades. They have two big men in Bass and Gortat that have value and potential. Carters contract is expiring (team option). J.J Redick showed he can play, and Michael Petruis has shown it to. For a team like the Raptors, if they can convince Bosh to go to Orlando, could benefit from it. The Raptors could package Bosh and Hedo to the Magic for the likes of Bass, Gortat, Redick, and the trade excem. they gave to Orlando last year. Plus maybe Petruis or Carters expiring contract. I personally do not want Hedo back, but if eating his contract means getting Bosh I am all for it.

June 22, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Pretty sure no one said he did?</div></blockquote> sorry about that, I read it as career for some odd reason.

June 22, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Top 10 all time or top ten of the past 30 years? Because nobody from your list played before 1980, and I don't think Wade is "obviously" a top 10 player of all time. He's certainly on his way, but I'm not sure he's there yet. In addition to usual suspects like Jordan, Magic, and Bird, Kareem is obviously a top 10 player: all-time leading scorer, all-time leading rebounder, 6 rings, 6 mvps. Wilt Chamberlin played in an earlier time but averaged 30 pounds and 22 rebounds for a career. That's insane. Plus 4 mvps and 2 titles. Bill Russell was one of the greatest defensive centers ever, winning 11 championships in 13 seasons as a player. Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double for an entire season, a feet that has never been duplicated. He also brought the Bucks one title. Even Dr. J managed to win one title, although he needed Moses Malone's help on the inside. Honestly as talented as LeBron is, I think a lot of people would have trouble putting him in front of these guys, since all of them have the team hardware in addition to the individual accomplishments. As good as Malone and Barkley were, it hurts their legacies that they were never able to win a championship, and I think the same thing would happen to LeBron. That said, LeBron is still only 25 years old. He has a lot of career ahead of him. In 15 years, he could very well be a top 5 of all time type guy. Edit: good to see there was already a consensus on Wade while writing this post!</div></blockquote> Oscar didn't avg a triple double for his career, he was close and did it for a couple of seasons. his career avg was 25/7.5/9.5 <a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/roberos01.html" rel="external nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/roberos01.html</a> Dr. J was a great player, but the NBA really showed people who he really was. The ABA was a much different league. Their focus was high flying and scoring. Dr. J benefited from this and when he came to the NBA his numbers were still very good, just not his ABA numbers ABA career: 28.7/12.1/4.8 NBA career: 22/6.7/3.9 <a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ervinju01.html" rel="external nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ervinju01.html</a>

June 22, 2010

Tired..... that's past tense. I tired to be nice to you. It didn't work out so there is no point in ever trying again.

Second, you really need to get over the apology angle. Apology is an expression of regret, in which I feel none. Welcome to the real world Lazor where not everyone is nice and people aren't going to apologize just because you demand it.

Also for the last time, I wasn't trying to play gotcha. You stated the Bulls had talent a year ago. Then I questioned how that same talent, minus one player and then a trade of Salmon. Yet you call them dreadful this year. You thought that was me saying "Ha, gotcha". What it really was, was me wondering how the level of talent can drop so much with the deduction of so little. Instead you took it as I am bringing up irrelevent stuff, which still wasn't irrelevent seeing how it all involved Rose. I said Rose was a great player on a woeful team and helped carry them while helping the players improve.

That's a fact.

1) Ben Gordon's ppg went up by 2, 2) Noah became something of a threat, 3) Salmon had a good season before being traded, 4) They improved by 8 games with him, 5) Even with the lose of Gordon and Salmon they still kept their record at 41-41.

Then you tried to discredit me by saying they had this player, this player, and this player 2 years ago and that wasn't woeful. Yet two weeks ago a team with all the same players, minus 1 for the full season and the other being traded; you stated they were dreadful. I didn't do a gotcha, I wanted you to explain to me how a team can go from being talented to being dreadful yet still match their record of last year? You never did that, you went on to say it was irrelevent to the arugement which it still wasn't seeing how I was trying to point out my defense of why Rose is 4th. He went from a talented team to a dreadful team, yet he still produced better numbers and the same record.

Also, I have only freaked out on you. Now, because of this I instantly don't know what respect is. Yet a couple of weeks ago you cutdown BHK because he didn't agree with Jackson being the best head coach. You then went on to misread it, along with mine, and question how we could think Phil is a bad coach. You cut down both of us because we disagreed with you. You cut down the fact that the East is the more dominate conf. throughout the history of the NBA, just so you could be right about the last 10 years of the West being dominate.

You don't care for peoples opinions and once again I am not the only one who agrees with that. You sit here and cry because I decide I was fed up with you jerkish attitude and acted childish. Well guess what, it worked. You saw the jerk I can be and now you are pouting for an apology. You read peoples stuff wrong and take it the wrong way, I wanted to make sure my words were loud and clear. You are still a Jerk Lazor and that will never change, but maybe now you will respect the fact that people get fed up with you having to always be right.

June 22, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Remianen" data-cite="Remianen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26529" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>1) Yes, I saw but it doesn't matter. Building a stadium is one thing. But if the team that occupies the stadium is still crap, it's not really going to account for much. The Niners have promise but so do the Falcons. Promise and $4 will get you a cup of Starbucks but little else. The Niners have too many holes (not the least of which is the guy taking the snaps) to really contend and while I like how they're building the team, they aren't there yet. They still have no one who is truly marketable (Patrick Willis is a contender but generally speaking, defensive players aren't "sexy", especially middle linebackers) and the team is boring as hell to watch. 2) The Titans don't do too bad, merchandise wise. They have a unique and distinctive uniform design (and colors) and with CJ and maybe Vince, they have players who could move units. Sure they're no Mark Sanchez and the franchise itself is kinda boring (Jeff Fisher reminds me of Ben Stein. "Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?") but at least they're not the Rams. The Titans need a franchise cornerstone but then, so do most teams. Usually the cornerstone is a quarterback (Brees, Peyton, Brady) but not always (see Lewis, Ray). They have no one on that team to whom everyone in the locker room is accountable. An Undertaker of sorts. And Jeff Fisher is such a cold fish, he wouldn't dare blast a player in the press (like Parcells has done in the past). The Titans don't seem to value character very highly but they're not alone in that. Neither do the Cowboys and they haven't done too badly.</div></blockquote> I agree they are dull which is a shame with talent like V. Davis, M. Crabtree, P. Willis, and F. Gore. They will probably contend in the West, simply because every team out there is a contender in that division). That haven't had the greatest drafts in recent memory. Some can say that look at their first round picks and that is nice but a draft is more than just a first round. While it is key to nailing that first pick, it is also key to and depth with the last 6th. I thought they did very well drafting this year. (of course we wont know for sure until 3 to 4 years down the road) They drafted two big physical O-Line guys for an O-Line that needed to get more physical They got a steal with Taylor Mays, I know he dropped off this year, but going into last year he was a top ten talent. They drafted Bowman from the Un. of Linebackers (Penn State). Now if he can transition his game to the NFL is a different story. Nice RB from Mississippi State in Dixon. So a talented class, once again they have to transition to the NFL which could take up to 4 years. They are still extremely weak at the QB spot, but I like Nate Davis. Now will he be more than a backup, well we wont know for a while. He has talent and is considered a project QB right now. I think the Cowboys can control their talent a lot better than the Titans can as well.

June 22, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The boards worked just fine without the "official" threads for years. The fact that you started any kind of thread here doesn't really mean anything, tbh. When the sports calendar changes those threads disappear and re-appear. Unless Adam or a mod creates and/or pins them no one is actually obligated to stay in those threads. I've posted here forever basically, so when I made my thread about who was in charge of what, it was totally a joke. And the people I was speaking to knew it was. And I said you were "retarded." I didn't realize you would take it so personally. 'Retarded' being one of those words that I use without thinking it's actually an insult, like "lame" or "high." CQ didn't and we had a totally calm exchange. Honestly, this seems like you are taking these things far far too seriously. Re-read this thread: You listed your top guys. A couple of people challenged your list. You lost your sh*t. That's not a conversation. I'm sorry you feel so attacked but the way you express your opinions can be illogical and (because you've said you don't care about diction or grammar) a little confusing. Take that for what it's worth. But before you started posting here regularly we discussed sports a lot and we rarely had these kinds of flame wars.</div></blockquote> Lol 1) Doesn't matter if it's was here before or not, you acted as if you were (pun not intended) a watcher (the official threads) 2) You still aren't showing me where I blew up on other people. (how do you have no idea here?) 3) I don't care about my gammar, but when someone repeated attacks it.... it gets kind of annoying (same as 2) 4) I didn't lose my sh*t, I lost it on Lazor. JB and I finished our conversation through PM. Where I told him if it seemed like I was going bat sh*t for coco puffs on him, I wasn't and that I was sorry if he took it that way. 5) I never said me starting the thread was me being all mighty and powerful. I just said you need to get over yourself about you being god and your word is final. (same as 2) 6) The fact that the sports threads seems to run smoothly when you and Lazor don't post is another thing. (Same as 2) 7) Peter, I didn't get mad over the fact that you called CQ and I a retard. Hell, I have said it to people at times as well (in a joking matter much like you). What got me mad was the fact that we were retarded because you were agreeing with something that you agreed with. You just came into the the discussion like you were there the whole time and didn't even make sure to read back from the start of our talk. (this one is quite easy, you agree with yourself, was agreeing with what CQ and I already stated) 8) I have tried to be nice to you and Lazor, I really have. My mom always told "People who live in glass houses don't throw stones" (or something like that). You and Lazor talk about how I freak out because someone doesn't agree with me. In reality you and him come into these boards to cut people down and throw personal insults yourself (when someone says something you guys go, geez calm down I was only joking). If someone doesn't agree with your opinions you guys don't go "You know, you could be right, but that is your opinion and I am just having trouble seeing it that way" (once again don't see where you're not understanding) No, instead you guys feel you need to discredit everything anyone says that doesn't go with your word. I am not the only one who feels that way about the both of you. Only reason I don't trash Remi during this, is while Remi can take it over the top he also understands it's an opinion. You two just dont, it's your way or the highway. (Yep still don't get it) So you can continue to sit here and say I suck the life out of the sports threads and whatever, but I don't. You and Lazor coming in acting like the here all know all is what does it. The fact that most of the time when you to post a comment, most posters drop out is the funny part. People actually reply back to my post, but when you two talk most just stop because they know it will start an arguement that they wont win. Why? well simply because, even when you two lose the arugement, you will beat the arguement to death or say something else to tie into another arguement. Then a couple weeks later you'll say something completely different and it will be irrelevent to the arguement if someone stats "hey you said this a couple weeks ago" EDIT: Now Peter tell me what you aren't understanding.

June 22, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Remianen" data-cite="Remianen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26529" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ahh, it's not the same thing. New York is a large market because of both population and per capita income. Even if the Titans sold out every game in a season, they still wouldn't make as much as say the Jets or Giants or Dolphins or Cowboys (or even the Falcons) because their market is much smaller and offers far less in the way of ancillary income (team endorsements and marketing opportunities). The Packers are an iconic franchise but they can't charge $90 per ticket and expect to fill Lambeau because their local audience can't afford that (and there's not as many people in the local audience). And Packer fans in Wisconsin are freakin' fanatics about their team. Here, most people could care less about the Jets and Giants....but the teams produce despite that. When your owner can build a billion dollar ego boost...err, stadium and not even sweat it, you're a large market team. Lucas Oil is a beautiful stadium and awesome to watch a game in....but it's not as ostentatious and ridiculously blinged as Cowboys Stadium. Likewise, Miller Park is a beautiful venue for baseball....but it's very different from Yankee Stadium. It's like comparing the local Kingdom Hall to St. Patrick's Cathedral. They're both really good places to worship but one is just more...."DAMN!" than the other. People coming to games isn't nearly enough.</div></blockquote> I agree. Let me clarify it better so I don't confuse others. Even though they are a small market (one of the smaller since very few Tenn. markets are big) If Titans win they still sell-out games. Now this is no way a sell out like Giants or Jets because they charge a lot more money for their tickets. You also have to worry about Merch, Food, and other things people buy inside the stadium and outside (mainly merch) Peopl like the Skins, Giants, Jets, Cowboys, 49ers have such a big fan base that people buy stuff away from the stadium. 2 things, one is for Remi and the other is for everyone 1) (for Remi) did you see the stadium let-out of the new 49ers stadium they want to build? I posted the link below just in case, 9ers' still needs 500 million of their own to get it built. They'll find it somewhere (where the NFL helps or another way) <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?&entry_id=65400" rel="external nofollow">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?&entry_id=65400</a> 2) The titans biggest problems with the draft recently is much what the Bengals still have. They draft great talent with questionable character Ablert, CJ, Pacman, Young. Now they didn't come out fighting and stepping on people's faces, but it does lead you to question them in how they are at least manging them after the draft.

June 22, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm honored to be thrown in with guys like lazorbeak and Remi Gator, you've sucked the life out of every sports related thread on these boards. I kind of hope they all get closed just so you have less of a forum to speak in Everyone is entitled to their opinions. But whenever someone challenges or disagrees with your it turns into something like the last few pages. EVERY. TIME. EDIT: That being said, the Bulls aren't a terrible team. And Rose IS an incredible talent but he's nowhere near the 4th best player in the league. If Lebron goes to Chicago they aren't much more of a title contender than Cleveland is right now.</div></blockquote> Wow, well first Remi isn't as bad as you or Lazor. Remi at least tries to understand someones reasoning. Second, you and Lazor (espically you) have this freakin god complex where you think your word is everything and that's it. Third, besides and agruement with you, Lazor, and Remi (even Remi and I don't get like this) please show me where I complete just attack someone because I don't agree with their view? I mean serious Peter, get over yourself. You didn't even start a single sports, wrestling, or MMA thread on this forum and barely talked in a sports thread. All of a sudden you announce you're getting married and then lay out who runs the threads?????????? Why, are you special? Are you a mod? Does anyone give a crap? I just find it funny that you say that everyone is entitled to their own opinion ha, you're a riot Peter. The moment something is said or someone says something you don't understand, they're an instant idiot. I remember when CQ and I were talking about players who were max type players (TO US). We already stated that players who weren't would still get their money because GM's are dumb. We didn't care if people agree with us or not. Then he comes Peter on his glowing white horse two tell us we are idiots. Then you go to say what we have already agreed upon and stated. So Peter..... SHUT UP

June 22, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And the next two guys after him are probably Steve Nash and either Jason Kidd or Rondo. Rose doesn't put up the assists of any of those players and is not a great perimeter shooter. Rose was the 3rd leading scorer and averaged 6 assists on a team that also featured Ben Gordon, John Salmons, Deng, a healthy Brad Miller, and Kirk Heinrich. No idea how that's "woeful" or how CP3 is unproven, since he lead the Hornets to 56 wins and a division title, accomplishments Rose hasn't even approached with the Bulls. On the subject of "not proven," Rose is pretty much exhibit A. He's never actually accomplished anything. QUOTE] You stated it right here when telling everyone that the Bulls were not woeful because they had this talent (so you could discredit my point of having Rose at 4). So when I pointed out that you said they were dreadful a couple weeks ago, it now became irrelevent. Also it did go with what you are saying now (or at least then when we were talking about it). I said Rose was 4th gave my reason with one being the talent around him not being the best, but he makes them better. Then you came, "Oh, but they have him, him, and him. No idea how that is woeful" (Which none of those names were Deng or Noah). So I then stated how can you say that, but a couple weeks ago they were a dreadful at the 2 and 4 and undercut others. Also Ben Gordon was an inconsisent player, Kirk has always been a PG/SG so hence he's played out of position his whole career, Ben Miller (Brad?) still plays on the team, and Salmons was traded at the deadline. So he still played with 3 of the 4 players So once again, I never said "what do you think of the bulls". The arguement was about Rose, you questioned how his team could be woeful with those players (even though they won 8 more games with Rose, made the playoffs, and almost knocked the C's out), then I stated you said they were dreadful. They had Salmons on the team this year, they got rid of Gordon and they still had the same record with players you said were dreadful. So to sit here and say they had talent last year but not this year is dumb. They had all the same player minus Gordon (once again inconsisent and not worth the money). I want you to explain to me how a team with all the same pieces (minus one) can go from being talented, to dreadful with the same record.</div></blockquote>

June 21, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Oh Jesus, what on earth brought on this? No one is "throwing a stat at you." You said things that weren't supported by data and then what, you want to question the data? You know, there's even more data that it's based on, right? I mean, there is no way to attack common sense arguments in a way that makes you look good. But bringing up the limitations of the stat to argue something no one was trying to prove, and bringing up tangential points from weeks ago (that you apparently didn't understand then, since they absolutely do not support your position now) just makes it seem like you want to get in a fight for no good reason. Oh yes, common sense certainly bears out that George Hill, Antonio McDyess, and Richard Jefferson are elite players(???). Duncan was 4th in the league in double doubles and is statistically among the very best at his position, anchoring a defensive team. Without Duncan, the Spurs are maybe a 40 win team, but they wouldn't make the playoffs. With Duncan, they have never failed to win 50 games (exempting the strike year). I mean what are you even trying to argue here?</div></blockquote> You both did throw the stat at me. You even came out and said look Duncan is still elite based off this stat, which meant their were other players who were elite that just aren't even elite or close to it. I did understand the point, Jefferson has proved that he can play and no one has doubted that. Now you want to come and say the only reasons his stats are so high is because he is on a horrible team. Tell me how a player being on a horrible team automaticly makes him a bad player with inflated stats? McGrady was a great player on a crappy team with inflated stats. You are an idiot though it's clear, I never said those three players were elite. Maybe it's that whole reading comprehension thing you were trying to explain once. I said the Spurs were a team with great talent behind Duncan, then I went on to name the talent. I never said they were great talent individually, or just those three. I named off a group of 5 with those three involved. Also it's funny how you also said that the Bulls aren't a woeful team when a couple weeks ago you said Deng, Noah, and Rose were the only pieces the Bulls really had. And yes I said that about you <img alt=":eek:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/eek.png.0e09df00fa222c85760b9bc1700b5405.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />. (All I did was agree with jb) which means you agree with him that I am crazy. You truly need to calm down, you seem to cry the moment someone disagrees with you. You don't respect what anyone says, and 99.9% of the time you cut it down. Why, well it's simple, because Lazor only follows the rules of lazor. Funny thing is he wrote these rules while on a toliet taking a Lazor. You cry about a bunch of stuff and then try to discredit people, because to you (and your pin pal Hilton) it doesn't go along with your ideas of your life. You don't get it doesn't matter if you believe Coco Jordan is the next best think for suntan lotion or Albert Pujols would make a great Center..... why because it's your Belief. Plus it is true, you don't care about anyone's opinion and often time (which I mean all the time if they don't agree with King Lazor) you cut them down because they believe in something else. Get off your high horse dude, no cares. I don't see how that first comment was rude or inflammatory. I also believe it did add value, because of the fact it adds you don't care what anyone thinks. It's your word or no word at all. Now if you want to think this was rude and inflammatory, I am quite fine with it. Also AB only Bosh, Paul, and Durant (before he got talent in OKC) have troubling making the playoffs (but each has made the playoffs). I never said it had anything to do with winning or stats. You brought a stat up that had everything to do with winning which I think is pointless when you have a player like Nene, Varejao, and Redick on it with out a single C's player or Kobe Bryant. Out of the top 20 only one played in the Finals. I do believe Lebron is overrated and to point that stat out that say (wins) to me and is based off a teaming winning is pointless. Lebron has shown he can't push a team with talent around him (and yes Lazor, Cavs have talent..... wait I mean Wonder, Great, Best Ever). Do I think he is a talent player who could prove the overrated tag wrong..... yes, but then again I have said that before as well <img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

June 21, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jbergey_2005" data-cite="jbergey_2005" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Kobe is normally top 10 in win shares. His value is more as a team leader and clutch player. He doesnt rebound or get steals like many of the other stars of the league. Kind of goes hand in hand on why Kobe's teams werent very effective when they didnt have much around him though.</div></blockquote> 1) Saw 2 years he didn't make the top 20, also only went back to 03-04 but he highest finish was 4th 2) You are right Kobe doesn't steal like others, expect the last three years he's 18, 5, 12, 18 in the league in steals. Kobe acctually finished 12th, 7th, 5the last three year for defensive player of the year 3) Kobe since the 99-00 season has been a 25/5/5 guy 4) The one season Kobe didn't make it to the playoffs the team was 24-19. Then their head coach resigned and Kobe both suffered injuries (Odom missing the last 17 games of the season tanked down the strech. (they also had Caron Butler)

June 21, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jbergey_2005" data-cite="jbergey_2005" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html" rel="external nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html</a> Also I dont believe anyone was just throwing this stat out at you. It seemed you just needed a refresher on who Lebron James is if you havent seen him play.</div></blockquote> aw you're just so cute. I never said Lebron couldn't play..... at all I mean please if you can point out where I said Lebron can't play, pull it up. I said Lebron isn't the best player in the league, then gave a run down of who I thought MY top 10 guys were. Then you and Lazor (of course Lazor because opinion to him are like a 1 dollar bill on the ground to gates, means nothing) decide to come in and call me crazy and that I am doing this for a reaction, when the only reaction I get is a sudden itch in my butt when Lazor speaks. I don't care about some win share stat that doesn't even have the best player on it. I could careless that Lebron avg 27/7/7 a game when he can't even win it all. Based off that stat, Lebron and Anderson V. were top 20 and their should have been nothing stopping the Cavs. C's didn't even have anyone on it. (talking about the wins per 48 min) Lebron's avg: 27/7/7 a career that's great Jordan's: 30/6/5 omg Michael avg more points a game but Lebron is better because he had one more rebound and two more assist so he instanly is a better player. What.... Lebron is 0-1 in finals and Jordan was 6-0.... ah that doesn't mean anything. Also maybe I messed up putting rose as 4th, but to compare Nash, Williams, and Rondo to him is dumb seeing how he has had a better start to his career then they did.

June 21, 2010

So you two are throwing a stat at me that was developed for baseball, neither of you can calculate, and their is no way for the stat to be decreased as the hear all tell all to a player being elite?

If we based it off on that stat, Kobe isn't even top 20. Kobe wouldn't even be the best player on his team. J.J Redick, Varejao, andNene are elite players though. Hell by that stat alone San Antonio and Utah should have been the top two teams in the West.

But you guys are right Rose isn't the top PG in the game. Now his first two years better than Nash, Williams, and Rondo..... yes.

Duncan isn't elite anymore, he his still talented, but his elite days are behind him.

It's odd that you consider the Timberwolves bad as just the other day they were good enough (to you) to challenge in the East and Jefferson still coming back from a knee injury.... A knee injury for a big man (or really anyone in basketball) can be career ending.

Also you are taking a stat that the stat isn't 100% sure is correct

<a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html" rel="external nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html</a>

first line second sentence

I decided to attempt to calculate basketball Win Shares

common sense would dictate that the Spurs were winners this year not because of Tim Duncan being elite, but because they are a defensive minded team with great talent (Parker, Manu, Jefferson, McDyess, George Hill)

June 21, 2010

So you two are throwing a stat at me that was developed for baseball, neither of you can calculate, and their is no way for the stat to be decreased as the hear all tell all?

June 21, 2010

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Candyman" data-cite="Candyman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You mean like Hershel Walker's history of wrestling? It TOTALLY depends on who Batista's opponent is. To say he's going to get destroyed without knowing who he'll be in the cage with is just silly.</div></blockquote> 1) I never said he would get destroied 2) Didn't Batista get beat up by Booker T back before Summerslam a while ago? But Strikeforce has a way of hand feeding opponets to newer fighters.

June 21, 2010

Batista is going to get destroyed. Simple as that. Brock and Bobby had youth on their side.

Plus the fact the had a history of wrestling before hand. Like real wrestling not Wrastling

June 21, 2010

You can keep Rose where he is for all I care. Its your list.

It just doesnt make sense to me. Chris Paul and Deron Williams are the 2 best point guards in the NBA right now. I am not sure what part of Rose's game you even could think is better than them 2 right now.

Dwight Howard simply controls the lane and is the best big man in the NBA right now. As long as he can continue to dunk, pass, and block shots I would take him over a scoring point guard that isnt a great passer yet and plays poor defense.

I'm not a King James fan so I have no rooting interest if he wins more rings than MJ or Bryant. I just watch basketball and I understand the Lebron James is more important to his team than any other player in the NBA.

Put Derrick Rose on the Cavs and take Lebron off how many games do you think they win? Put Lebron on the Bulls and take Rose off how many games do you think they win?

My guess is the Cavs would have been around a 41-45 win team this year while the Bulls would have won around 55-60 games.

very good points with out a doubt, I just see things different.

hey look durant is second

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