Suggestion - Hidden Stats

[Olback]

Being a big fan of the Football Manager game series. I would like to see the game hidden stats of certain wrestlers when they are not in you company. To find them you would have to watch them in action or given them a try. Currentlt you can see how good every work is which i believe is unrealistic. Sure some well known wrokers will be know as will ones that have been on TV but why be able to know about unknowns or rookies? This would then allow the game to include, trial contracts, 1 match contracts and open tryouts to get new talent. Anyway thats my idea.

[Akki]

Or you could just go to the editor and look up their stats. They're not going to have changed too much from the original ones. I think this would just make hiring a needless waste of time.

[Olback]

[QUOTE=Akki;374301]Or you could just go to the editor and look up their stats. They're not going to have changed too much from the original ones. I think this would just make hiring a needless waste of time.[/QUOTE] You could but thats not the point. I was getting at the fact that why should the player be able to see exactly how good all workers are in the game. For instance if i am a small indy promotion in Canada how do i know how good Wrestler x from Mexico is, if he is a complete unknown? Surely i would have to scout him first. Granted some people might not like this idea, but i personally think it will make hiring people more challenging and realistic.

[Akki]

Like I said, the only challenge would be clicking back to the editor. Plus, if someone's included in TEW, they're well known enough to at least have some matches on the internet. I'm all for making aspects of the game more challenging. But this is the wrong way to go about it, I think. If you can still look at the stats in the editor, it makes gameplay a chore, not challenging. The Destiny stat is a good example of how the game can be challenging. You can't see it, it's random, and you could end up with a good number of your workers having bad chemistry and the like. Like I said, this isn't the way to go about making the game tougher.

[Day_Dreamer]

Although the suggested way would not be a good one. I always thought tryouts should be included in the game in someway. If you've played Madden, you know how you run skill drills before the draft to get an idea of how talented the guy could be, and the when you hire him you get all the stats, I think in someway, that should be incorporated into TEW. Maybe potential could be used as the one stat that is hidden under normal circumstances, revealed only after a tryout.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Olback;374306]You could but thats not the point. I was getting at the fact that why should the player be able to see exactly how good all workers are in the game. For instance if i am a small indy promotion in Canada how do i know how good Wrestler x from Mexico is, if he is a complete unknown? Surely i would have to scout him first. Granted some people might not like this idea, but i personally think it will make hiring people more challenging and realistic.[/QUOTE] Bassically, when your looking at new worker's, and checking out their stats and such.. that's you physically going out and scouting them out. That's how I've always seen it. That's the reason I've never pushed for the "Scouting" thing too much. I just "feel" that we already do that, but we do it ourselves, and know exactly why we hired someone.

[panix04]

although the "fog of war" thing works in footie manager, the TEW grade system alreadt masks a workers exact attributes to begin with. I like the idea of including scouting/tryouts etc. in the game, but i don't think that this is the way to include it.

[KeyserSoze]

I agree with this one (as I suggested it before :D ). And I think it should be complemented with some degree of randomness in the stats, so the experience in one game doesn't allow you to totally master another. Akki, I see the chance to see it in the editor as something good nor bad. If you want to play it with "fog of war" you can. And if you don't like the "fog of war" you can just look the editor. Giving chances is always good no?

[Phantom Stranger]

As others have said - I view looking at stats as scouting. It's a morning sat in the office viewing YouTube.

[Adam Ryland]

That's how I view it too; it seems like everybody who has ever applied a headlock has got a YouTube video of them in action, so finding out the basics about a person shouldn't be too hard. I think actually making you wait to scout them would just add unnecessary fuss to the game.

[Self]

I like the suggestion. I like the idea of giving tryouts and dark matches and being surprised or dissapointed by the results. I like the idea of giving a killer contract to what looks like an awesome prospect, only to find he can't deliver the goods in the ring. Fog of war-ing certain stats is an option I'd love to see in the game. The Editor is obviously the stumbling block in this, but I've always felt the editor is seperate from the game, something that isn't supposed to be used unless there's been a major data screw-up you want to fix, or you want to cheat. I know some people can't help but cheat if the option is readily available to them, but I'm a man of honour and self control. It's all well and good saying "That won't work because of the editor" but if I had to choose between something that makes the game more challenging and fun, and something that is, in essence, a cheat cartidge, I know what I'd choose. Is Fog of War something that makes the game more fun and challenging? I don't know, but I'm open to the possibility.

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=KeyserSoze;374329]I agree with this one (as I suggested it before :D ). And I think it should be complemented with some degree of randomness in the stats, so the experience in one game doesn't allow you to totally master another. Akki, I see the chance to see it in the editor as something good nor bad. If you want to play it with "fog of war" you can. And if you don't like the "fog of war" you can just look the editor. Giving chances is always good no?[/QUOTE] that's ridiculous. That's be like signing them without even knowing if they're good at anything. How is knowing someone's skills "mastering" anything? It's like a recipe. It's just an ingredient to what you're cooking. You still need the other ingredients and to know how to cook it. And even then nothing ever comes out the same. Because it all comes down to how long you cook it and at what temperature. Booking promotions is the same way.

[KeyserSoze]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne;374433]that's ridiculous. That's be like signing them without even knowing if they're good at anything. How is knowing someone's skills "mastering" anything? It's like a recipe. It's just an ingredient to what you're cooking. You still need the other ingredients and to know how to cook it. And even then nothing ever comes out the same. Because it all comes down to how long you cook it and at what temperature. Booking promotions is the same way.[/QUOTE] Maybe I explained myself bad, but when I begun another game with a database I know, I know what workers I will sign without looking his stats. Of course some could "bomb", but in the long run, the good players in one game are good in other with the same database. I accept the point of Adam even I don't agree with this point.

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=KeyserSoze;374463]Maybe I explained myself bad, but when I begun another game with a database I know, I know what workers I will sign without looking his stats. Of course some could "bomb", but in the long run, the good players in one game are good in other with the same database. [/QUOTE] so what's your point? You think hiding stats is gonna make a difference? You said it yourself, you sign the same guys every time.

[Self]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne;374477]so what's your point? You think hiding stats is gonna make a difference? You said it yourself, you sign the same guys every time.[/QUOTE] That's why if Fog-Of-War/Attribute Masking was included, it would probably need to go hand-in-hand with some kind of Stat Randomisation. Which is probably the best argument against the feature, the amount of work for an uncertain amount of gameplay improvement, if any.

[KeyserSoze]

That's the key Self. Fog of war without randomsation should be annoying. I've always thought that the fog+random can give more value of replayability but it's just an opinion. Anyway I think that some kind of randomisation is included in the new potential stat, as you can know how good the workers are but not how good they will be.

[Day_Dreamer]

[QUOTE=KeyserSoze;374510]That's the key Self. Fog of war without randomsation should be annoying. I've always thought that the fog+random can give more value of replayability but it's just an opinion. Anyway I think that some kind of randomisation is included in the new potential stat, as you can know how good the workers are but not how good they will be.[/QUOTE] As I said before, potential could be the one stat that random and hidden until a tryout.

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=KeyserSoze;374510]That's the key Self. Fog of war without randomsation should be annoying. I've always thought that the fog+random can give more value of replayability but it's just an opinion. Anyway I think that some kind of randomisation is included in the new potential stat, as you can know how good the workers are but not how good they will be.[/QUOTE] That was always there with the destiny stat.

[theaddicane]

Would it be possible to simulate something like fog of war in the 07 game by copying the C grade image over C- and C+, and the B grade image over B- and B+? It wouldn't be perfect, and would mess up match ratings and that a bit, but if you were really desperate for it...

[Olback]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;374421]That's how I view it too; it seems like everybody who has ever applied a headlock has got a YouTube video of them in action, so finding out the basics about a person shouldn't be too hard. I think actually making you wait to scout them would just add unnecessary fuss to the game.[/QUOTE] Thanks for the reply Adam. Will tryouts or similar be in the game? even if stat masking is not.

[G-Prime]

[QUOTE=Olback;374791] Will tryouts or similar be in the game? even if stat masking is not.[/QUOTE] Why? We'll already know how good they are.

[djlightning]

So basically you could end up with at game where Tommy Cornell and Sean McFly are worthless pieces of trash with stat masking and randomness. Seems like that would destroy a lot of back stories. Also one thing I don't like about Madden's drills to see players skills, theses guys have played in college for 3-4 years, if you haven't had scouts watching them and taking notes on them you probably don't deserve to be in a football front office. The way that TEW is set up I think is very realistic in that you don't know exactly how good a guy is, unless you check the editor, but you have some idea of the range he falls in. Why do you know the range, because you scouted him before you went to negociate. Sort of like you run TV shows, by never go shopping for cameras or film. What do you want to do next, pick out the colors for the ring aprons?

[KeyserSoze]

[QUOTE=djlightning;374837]So basically you could end up with at game where Tommy Cornell and Sean McFly are worthless pieces of trash with stat masking and randomness. Seems like that would destroy a lot of back stories. Also one thing I don't like about Madden's drills to see players skills, theses guys have played in college for 3-4 years, if you haven't had scouts watching them and taking notes on them you probably don't deserve to be in a football front office. The way that TEW is set up I think is very realistic in that you don't know exactly how good a guy is, unless you check the editor, but you have some idea of the range he falls in. Why do you know the range, because you scouted him before you went to negociate. Sort of like you run TV shows, by never go shopping for cameras or film. What do you want to do next, pick out the colors for the ring aprons?[/QUOTE] I agree with you... partially. I always wanted the [B]option[/B] of fog of war+randomization. But I never wanted to substitute the actual system for this one. The core of the game is one that I like a lot. And I want to maintain it as it is nowadays. But I feel that it would be a surplus to have the chance to play some different kind of games. I don't want to lose the Cornell-McFly situation, but maybe it would be fun play a game with them as trash with other workers as stars. Of course if I have to choose, I prefer the actual system. But I didn't think it as a substitution, but a tool to improve the replayability.

[RaptorRobertRage]

I've got mixed opinions about this suggestion. While it may work for stuff like Hockey, Football, and Basketball, its a little harder to apply to Pro Wrestling. Without going overboard I think a good option for "Fog", if it is included, would be to have stats hidden [b]only[/b] if the wrestler has not wrestled anywhere before, otherwise it just doesn't seem very realistic in my mind (yes, Adam, that realism thing that you hate oh so much), cause I mean thats what feds hire Talent Scouts for (or in smaller feds, the GM actually going out and doing the scouting himself). Though a similar option could be a "Fog" for wrestlers who haven't wrestled in your level of promotion but have still wrestled. You'd know they were capable of wrestling and vaguely how well (maybe an "Overall" stat for Fog switched on), but won't be sure how well the talent will do under the stress of your higher level or different promotion. Fog is doable, unfortunately its not really a feature that a lot of people (well, me at least) are going to miss too awfully much.

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=RaptorRobertRage;374887] Without going overboard I think a good option for "Fog", if it is included, would be to have stats hidden [b]only[/b] if the wrestler has not wrestled anywhere before, otherwise it just doesn't seem very realistic in my mind (yes, Adam, that realism thing that you hate oh so much), cause I mean thats what feds hire Talent Scouts for (or in smaller feds, the GM actually going out and doing the scouting himself).[/QUOTE] But in TEW terms, how would you account for that? Esp in the case of unemployeds? How do you determine who has "wrestled" somewhere before and who hasn't? Fog of War works for military kinds of games like Command and Conquer. It just doesn't work for TEW. The closest thing to any kind of "fog of war" was the old play option Adam had in 04 where contracts were removed and overness for promotions and wrestlers were set to random, but even that didn't account for stats. It still took the game during the initial load a while to process such a task. But let's say you were to "randomize" stats as well, you'd have to remove the feature of being able to see stats altogether to make it worthwhile and it's likely that such a suggestion would see a huge backlash from buyers/posters that it wouldn't behoove Adam whatsoever to incorporate such a feature.