Ddp...

[justtxyank]

I'm curious how he's viewed looking back. Some of my friends and I were talking about him and they really ran him down. Another guy on the internet bashed WCW for ever pushing him. When I was watching his push, it never seemed wrong to me. He got over with the fans very easily and was a good worker. Why does he get so much heat? I know he was Easy E's boy and all, but do people feel like he didn't deserve to be pushed and should have been a jobber or something?

[James Casey]

I think the problem was that he was in his 40s when he was getting his push, at a time when the likes of Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio and co (late 20s/early 30s), all of whom were superior workers with a greater upside were stuck in the midcard. His ascension was sort of seen as proof that you could crack the glass ceiling - with the right connections. Too, apart from Goldberg, DDP was pretty much the sole WCW success story of the 90s - the one main event worker built from nothing within the company. Considering that in the same time WWF produced HHH, Rock, Austin, Michaels, Goldust, the Harts... DDP was seen as a bit of a slap in the face. Simply put, fans tend to see DDP as a guy who deserved success in the business - he was by no means a bad worker when he made it to the top - but not at the expense of a lot of other workers in the company.

[justtxyank]

[QUOTE=James Casey;508753]I think the problem was that he was in his 40s when he was getting his push, at a time when the likes of Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio and co (late 20s/early 30s), all of whom were superior workers with a greater upside were stuck in the midcard. His ascension was sort of seen as proof that you could crack the glass ceiling - with the right connections. Too, apart from Goldberg, DDP was pretty much the sole WCW success story of the 90s - the one main event worker built from nothing within the company. Considering that in the same time WWF produced HHH, Rock, Austin, Michaels, Goldust, the Harts... DDP was seen as a bit of a slap in the face. Simply put, fans tend to see DDP as a guy who deserved success in the business - he was by no means a bad worker when he made it to the top - but not at the expense of a lot of other workers in the company.[/QUOTE] But why does he get that blame? He was still working at a great level at the time because his body hadn't taken that abuse. He was great on the mic and had a great connection. I get your point about the younger guys not busting through when he was, but that was because of guys like Hogan, Nash, Savage, etc. sitting at the top of the card and not wanting to give up their spots. Page had no problem working with guys like Benoit and did a hell of a job getting him over in early 98. He also worked a great program with Raven that got Raven over big in WCW.

[James Casey]

I was actually always a fan of DDP - but he was emblematic of the problems that WCW was going through with regard to the promotion of talent and the creation of superstars. It was a bit like "If the best WCW has to offer is DDP, then..."

[Guest Ransik]

Aw man dude... I could slap you. When ever I see threads that just have a wrestler's name in it, they're usually dead. You scared the hell out of me! I always thought DDP was great growing up... he ran the mic better than anyone minus Flair and Arn in WCW, and the second he dropped Hall with the Diamond Cutter he became a top tier player. Sure, he was Bischoff's buddy... but only the blindest marks will tell you he didn't earn his keep. When WCW called him "the hardest working man in WCW" they weren't blowing smoke up his butt... he literally DID study all his matches, watch other worker's matches constantly and ask everyone what he could do to make himself better. If you've ever read Flair's book.... he bashes DDP to no end. And why? I couldn't tell you to be honest with you, I think it's because DDP is Eric's buddy and Flair detests Bischoff like a Catholic walking into a satanic cult. But contrary to Ric's opinion (read his stuff on Bret, too & how much he kisses HBK and HHH's ass and it's no wonder he feels that way) I always thought Page was one of the more superior workers in WCW, possibly the top 5 of all time. I mean come on folks..... DDP had a classic with Goldberg. Freakin.... Goldberg. And any wrestler in the Indies can tell ya.... flash a Diamond Cutter sign at the crowd, they'll pop instantly. They also didn't call the Cutter the "Finisher of the 90s" for no reason either. ;)

[G-Prime]

[QUOTE=James Casey;508753] HHH, Rock, Austin, Michaels, Goldust, the Harts... [/QUOTE] One of these things is not like the other...

[Midnightnick]

During the whole Monday Night Wars, I was firmly WWF, but I always had a softspot for DDP when I turned over to Nitro or Thunder. He was just pure charisma.

[Mr T Jobs To Me]

[QUOTE=Midnightnick;508779]During the whole Monday Night Wars, I was firmly WWF, but I always had a softspot for DDP when I turned over to Nitro or Thunder. He was just pure charisma.[/QUOTE] I agree with this sentiment. DDP was DDP, and there hasn't been very many workers like him.

[Midnightnick]

[quote=Mr T Jobs To Me;508785]I agree with this sentiment. DDP was DDP, and there hasn't been very many workers like him.[/quote] Plus. He made a watchable match out of a match that contained basketball players. And was the main heel in Ready To Rumble. I swear, if DDP wasn't 40+, he could've become the Roddy Piper of the 90's (I mean in terms of movie star).

[mad5226]

[QUOTE=G-Prime;508774]One of these things is not like the other...[/QUOTE] I was thinking the same thing, how did Austin make the list??? :cool:

[CQI13]

I always thought he was great. His feud with Raven was a classic. I remember him giving everyone in the Flock/Nest the Diamond Cutter, all in a different way in succession (I think someone had thrown Kidman up in the air, reversed something Reese did). And the fact that he got over in WWE with "It's not a bad thing, it's a good thing" was pretty awesome.

[NickC13573]

I always loved DDP. I do have to make a confession though. The first person I was a mark of was none other than THE Disco Inferno.

[SuperOwens]

My best mates favourite wrestler ever, that's something really as the bloke does know his wrestling. For me i like DDP but i always thought his finisher was more over then him. Still you check out some of his matches and he has good basics and fluidity. Saying he was over in WWE may be a stretch to far though, although not his fault at all. I read his book, its interesting as there's a load of stuff about working the bar business at the beach and loads on his self promotion. It strangely tails off at the end though, and at one point he turns into Arn Anderson and kayfabes his first match with Goldberg. Why do wrestling fans hate on DDP? Cos a lot of wrestling fans are idiots.

[justtxyank]

So it isn't just me who thinks well of him. I just don't get it. I think a lot of the negative wrap on him is the look to be honest. He looks hickish/trailer trash whatever, and I think that bothers people who don't want to think of wrestling in that way.

[Basmat01]

DDP was Team WCW! when everyone else seemed to join the nWo or leave then rejoin a week later. Besides Goldberg, DDP was the only real Mainevent Face they had, He made the company a Sh*t load of money and brought in Buyrates when Headlining WCW's PPVs and Ratings when fueding with the Likes of Hogan ect. he was good business of WCW They use to call him the "Peoples Champion" before the Rock become one! I was not happy with how the WWE treated him when he came over. He should of been maineventing insted of being made out like a lowercard jobber

[Comradebot]

DDP rocked, period. He may not have been THE flashiest worker of all time, but his charisma and psychology were both phenomenal. He's one of the few reasons I would ever switch the TV over from WWF to WCW. And its true, the way WWF treated him after he joined was criminal, and probably has to mostly do with Vince McMahon seemingly hating the idea of pushing anyone he didn't create himself. A real shame to see DDP's career basically come to a close at the bottom of the WWE, his talent going to waste on the B-shows. And the Diamond Cutter rocks. I'll always mark out for finishers that seemingly come out of nowhere. Much better than CM Punk's... thing. I love CM, don't get me wrong, but his finisher is one of the worst I've ever seen.

[tristram]

Great worker. Great psychology. He would sell those ribs like no other. It made you genuinely believe that it was a struggle for his life and he was doing it for the fans. He had some great feuds in WCW, the Raven one is mentioned, sadly WCW did not run well with Raven after this. Also he probably carried Randy Savage through his last great feud. Even the Jersey Shore Triad, he helped create an opening for Bam Bam Bigelow and Chris Kanyon in WCW. And allowing Kanyon to rip him off with 'Positively' Kanyon was awesome. Even when he was at the top and he was getting a push, DDP would sell like no other and make an average wrestler look fantastic. Even the Diamond Cutter, the story behind the diamond cutter was so well done. And he worked it so well... "You never know when, you never know how...BANG!", and that's how it was. You'd almost watch the match to see when and how he'd somehow get it on. I remember one when he was wrestling the Giant and getting hammered, he makes a ten second surge, gets to the top rope... SUPER DIAMOND CUTTER! Planted Giant square. Massive move. And it was the only way you could have brought a man of DDP's size beating a man of the Giant's size. Even though the Giant lost, DDP made him look like a million dollars. I don't think there would be a solitary wrestler who would leave a DDP match, win/lose/draw without becoming a better wrestler... whether he slowed them down and showed them in ring psychology, or whether he made them look incredible, THAT is the major difference between say Hogan and Page in WCW. The booking in the WWF was a joke. Remember, they brought him into stalk Undertaker's horse faced wife. Remember, DDP is at the time banging a serious hottie. Remember, his hottie of a wife was the leader of the Nitro Girls and developing her own character in WCW - IE everyone knew he was banging a beautiful lady and yet they booked him to go after Taker's horse face skank. Ok, ok, that wasn't the worst part... THEY LET HER BEAT HIM! And then the whole "That's not a bad thing, that's a good thing" character was sad, sad, sad, sad. Making him into a jobber was a sad end to a terrific career... PS: Getting Smells Like Teen Spirit (or a versionated version of it) certainly did his career no harm, as did having the bombshell Kim on his arm. PPS: He's in one of the earlier Wrestlemanias driving the Cadillac for Honky Tonk Man and Greg Valentine. PPPS: He was also the manager of Kevin Nash and Scott Hall in their first run in WCW in the early 1990s.

[tristram]

One last thing on Page; out of the 'older' WCW stars, Page was the one to me who looked like he lived, breathed and slept wrestling and what it meant to the people in the crowd. I think that was because he'd been at the depths of hell in pro wrestling for so long, so he knew how the Average Joe in the stands felt about the industry. Out of the older pros, Page was the guy you could rely on to get beat up real bad and make it appear real, to really take some stiff shots and get on with telling the story. Great wrestler, seriously underrated in the wash up as to how important he was to WCW. Perhaps a good move for Page in 2000 when they had the New Blood was to turn on the Millionaires Club as a 'Coach' of sorts, I know eventually Nash led the Natural Born Thrillers but Page to me would have been a natural fit because I think most people understood the Page story and knew he wasn't a millionaire leach like some of the others in the Millionaires Club.

[BlueStar]

I liked DDP...Aright, he didn't have the talent and training of the younger guys, but he tried very hard to make every match look different and I think he always pushed himself to the limit. He's good to great on the stick and he tried varying things with his finisher to make it look unique every match. If all of the guys had the attitude towards a match of DDP, wrestling would have been more interesting.

[BurningHamster]

I thought DDP was decent. I wasn't a huge fan but he was entertaining and he worked really hard. Considering he was only really a manager in his 20's and really only started wrestling full time in like his mid 30's and was still able to really improve and become one of the more consistent guys in WCW says a lot about his passion and commitment to the business. I remember watching WCW and thinking "meh" when I saw DDP come out, but usually by the end of the match he'd managed to get me interested. Contrast that with Goldberg who came out to all the fanfare in the world but did the exact same squash match at the top of the card over and over again ... and didn't even do it well ... I'd take DDP anyday.

[tristram]

I think if Goldberg was a TEW character he'd have an unreal destiny stat. I don't really get it with him, and I think the mega-push was sort of part of the problem because to do it he kinda had to destroy the undercard, but that said there's no doubt they reacted to him and jobbing him to Kevin Nash the way they did was kinda meaningless. I think the best way to have him lose out would be to a guy like Jericho or Benoit in an ultimate submission match at a Starrcade. That was the beginning of the end, because to follow that up, just when we thought Hogan was done and the nWo was falling apart as a heel faction, Hogan comes out of retirement to give Nash the finger poke of doom to basically render Nash's defeat of Goldberg useless and meaningless. On top of that, it appeared the match that Nash and Goldberg served only two purposes, one to give the title to Nash, and secondly, to set Goldberg up for a run with Hall, when really that was an odd decision all around. I don't know if I'd necessarily agree that Goldberg's matches were stock standard. Fact is, most matches on Nitro/Thunder were short matches (except for the high class workers), and he did show signs of gradual improvement bringing in some martial arts and submission moves to go with the spear, jackhammer. Generically though, his look was generic so the stock standard match kinda suited. In hindsight, good move to have Goldberg defeat DDP at Halloween Havoc, bad move to have it not air live on PPV as the Grogan-Warrior match went over time, but good move in that it should have really set Goldberg up making his defeat meaningful. Disasterous move to job him to Nash the way they did. Credit to Page, he made that match look very impressive which I think is his calling card - he's not going to give you a five star frog splash followed by a hurricanrana, but he is going to absorb you with a telling match that really promotes the other commodoties on the roster. Finally, the diamond cutter... another wicked one he did was back I think in 1996, on Eddie Guerrero, lifts him up for a jackknife, hoists him up steps forward.. SNAP! Bang!

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=Ransik;508768]And any wrestler in the Indies can tell ya.... flash a Diamond Cutter sign at the crowd, they'll pop instantly. They also didn't call the Cutter the "Finisher of the 90s" for no reason either. ;)[/QUOTE] I don't think it's possible to fairly judge DDP because of the Diamond Cutter. [i]Randy Orton[/i] got over (as he's going to get) by doing a [i]crappy[/i] Diamond Cutter. If that doesn't convey the full awesomeness of the Diamond Cutter then I'm not sure what could.

[Basmat01]

[QUOTE=shamelessposer;509125]I don't think it's possible to fairly judge DDP because of the Diamond Cutter. [i]Randy Orton[/i] got over (as he's going to get) by doing a [i]crappy[/i] Diamond Cutter. If that doesn't convey the full awesomeness of the Diamond Cutter then I'm not sure what could.[/QUOTE] But Orton Stalks his opponent so you know the RKO is coming. DDP Signals to the crowd thats his going to do it. I have starcade 98 and it was a great PPV. the DDP Vs Gaint match was great! The bump DDP took from Gaint when he gave him this HUGH backbreakerand like dropped him on his knee looked sick as lol I also didnt expect the Super Diamond cutter. Tristram was Nash surposed to be a face going into the match with goldberg? and Hall heel? it was a pretty poor finish to the match, Hall "Stuning" goldberg looked really fake lol

[aikmitt822]

DDP was probably my favorite wrestler from this peroid of time, which says a lot. Granted I was a 14 year old kid who marked out easily, the excitement he brought every moment he was on stage was great. He's one of a hand full of guys I identify that made me a wrestling fan for life, even if I don't watch anymore. One of my favorite matches he was involved in was at Uncensored 1998 when he defended the US Title against Chris Benoit and Raven. And it was no where near the top of the card, I think it was Hogan vs. Savage in a cage match and Sting vs. Scott Hall for the WCW Championship, but I couldn't enjoy the rest of that pay per view because of how great it was. Also, DDP dressing up as La Parka against Macho Man on Nitro, giving him the Diamond Cutter while still in the mask. I remember flipping out when he took it off and his music hit. I was definately a WCW guy over WWF in the late 90s, and besides Sting there was nobody else that I looked at that I really felt "was" WCW more than DDP.

[tristram]

[QUOTE=Basmat01;509271]But Orton Stalks his opponent so you know the RKO is coming. DDP Signals to the crowd thats his going to do it. I have starcade 98 and it was a great PPV. the DDP Vs Gaint match was great! The bump DDP took from Gaint when he gave him this HUGH backbreakerand like dropped him on his knee looked sick as lol I also didnt expect the Super Diamond cutter. Tristram was Nash surposed to be a face going into the match with goldberg? and Hall heel? it was a pretty poor finish to the match, Hall "Stuning" goldberg looked really fake lol[/QUOTE] Yes he was supposed to be face... Scott Hall was playing heel, but Nash was trying to of course 'face' up Hall to reunite the Outsiders in the Wolfpack, or least of all get him off the p!ss. Starrcade 1998 was an average card by Starrcade standards I thought, aside from the first two matches which were of course the Cruiserweight Spectaculars. Any PPV that features Ernest Miller, Prince Iuakea and Jerry Flynn... I just can't get into them. The Super Diamond Cutter in that match though almost makes up for the other sh!t on the card... even the Flair/Bischoff match where Flair wins the WCW Presidency, which was mega-cool at the time was so stupid when in the following year both Roddy Piper and Eric Bischoff would just walk out and be labelled WCW President despite Flair having won the match for it, in other words, like so many WCW stipulations the whole purpose of the match and the feud was pointless.