TNA Heel dominate?

[GatorBait19]

I was looking at TNA online and noticed that all of their title holders are heel, even if Sting is a tweener right now

[UFC-KING]

Yup

[The Two]

It happens. Heel champs are good for business, or at least babyfaces chasing a heel champion are good for business.

[Derek B]

And so are champs who overcome the odds... [i]hides[/i]

[Astil]

[QUOTE=derek_b;536270]And so are champs who overcome the odds... [i]hides[/i][/QUOTE] [SIZE="1"]Cena?[/SIZE]

[The Masked Orange]

I say this now, Sting is not over, good enough or even legendary enough to be holding the title. I've seen Kurt Angle get better and better, that senton he did of the ramp to Abyss is the single most perfect looking thing ever. Give Angle the strap.

[Blasphemywebleed]

[QUOTE=The Masked Orange;536372]I say this now, Sting is not over, good enough or even legendary enough to be holding the title. [/QUOTE] :eek: Perhaps he isn't good enough at the moment due to age. But how can you suggest that Sting doesn't deserve to be champion at a company where just a few months ago a podgy samoan was champion? Sting is a legend.

[The Masked Orange]

[QUOTE=Blasphemywebleed;536376]:eek: Perhaps he isn't good enough at the moment due to age. But how can you suggest that Sting doesn't deserve to be champion at a company where just a few months ago a podgy samoan was champion? Sting is a legend.[/QUOTE] Sting is a legend. And I agree that podgy Samoan is Podgy and only got over because he weighed three pounds less than the average American. (Controversial!!!) But even when he was on top of WCW I still didn't receive him as a true champion. When there are people on the Indies like Nigel McGuinness and on the roster like Kurt Angle, why hand the strap and potential control over the main event mafia to Sting???

[cappyboy]

[QUOTE=The Masked Orange;536387]Sting is a legend. And I agree that podgy Samoan is Podgy and only got over because he weighed three pounds less than the average American. (Controversial!!!) [/QUOTE] Define podgy for us non-Brits please. Would this be one of those rare cases where we Americans use a "u" and you guys don't? :) If podgy = pudgy, I'm with you. Otherwise I'm lost.

[The Masked Orange]

[QUOTE=cappyboy;536417]Define podgy for us non-Brits please. Would this be one of those rare cases where we Americans use a "u" and you guys don't? :) If podgy = pudgy, I'm with you. Otherwise I'm lost.[/QUOTE] Bingo. Unless you spell that with a U... ...Bingu???...

[mike b]

Hey..hey..hey.We inherited our pudgy from our British cousins;)

[The Masked Orange]

[QUOTE=mike b;536480]Hey..hey..hey.We inherited our pudgy from our British cousins;)[/QUOTE] No, your pudgy started around the time you guyses invented the Hot Dog, Burger and Deep Frier. And Coca Cola didn't help either

[Self]

I agree with The Masked Orange here. In my book (which for all I know is full of spelling mistakes and plot holes) Sting isn't a credible Champion. Back in the day he was awesome. A true WCW legend. A well-deserved multi-time Champion. However, right now, he doesn't look the part. Technically Sting is fine, and the psychology is great, but he simply doesn't look like he can kick the ass of everyone in the arena. It's not his fault. He's simply gotten older, saggier, slower. His offense just doesn't look "Holy F***" dangerous enough for me to view him as a credible Champion. If I saw him in a bar, I would likely think he was a tough guy, but not the toughest in the bar. Samoa Joe on the other hand looks like he can fight. He's got some hefty to him, and he knows how to use it. That sucker can move. Visually he's a much more credible fighter in my mind. Ignore the terrible booking. Ignore the preconceptions of 'fat' fighters. He's mobile. He's strong. His offense looks like it really hurts, and it's perfectly credible for him to shrug off his opponents moves. He looks like a fighter to me. Credible champion. Here's some other examples. Credible Champions - Kurt Angle, Booker T, Scott Steiner, AJ Styles, Rhyno. Non-Credible Champions - Christian Cage... um... BG James?

[The Masked Orange]

[QUOTE=Self;536489] Samoa Joe on the other hand looks like he can fight. He's got some hefty to him, and he knows how to use it. That sucker can move. Visually he's a much more credible fighter in my mind. Ignore the terrible booking. Ignore the preconceptions of 'fat' fighters. He's mobile. He's strong. His offense looks like it really hurts, and it's perfectly credible for him to shrug off his opponents moves. He looks like a fighter to me. Credible champion. [/QUOTE] Samoa Joe? To me, he is not a credible champion. I have got to the stage where I am turning off the T.V and doing some [U]Gardening[/U] when it's his turn to wrestle. He has nothing about him to seperate him from any other Big Guy, except they have muscles, and he jiggles more. I think people like Kane, JBL and even though I hate him vehemotly, Batista are credible big guys that aren't giants, that have potential to be a title threat. They have menace/ great promo skills/ Rey Meysterio tag along abilities. Joe can do some kicks, but he doesn't sparkle. I couldn't see him in WWE for one good reason, he is not good enough, in the ring and out the ring he is not WWE good. And sometimes I wonder about people like Ryhno, Joe and Abyss, whether [I]THEY[/I] are even [I]TNA[/I] material.

[Actarus]

[QUOTE=The Masked Orange;536500]Samoa Joe? To me, he is not a credible champion. I have got to the stage where I am turning off the T.V and doing some [U]Gardening[/U] when it's his turn to wrestle. He has nothing about him to seperate him from any other Big Guy, except they have muscles, and he jiggles more. I think people like Kane, JBL and even though I hate him vehemotly, Batista are credible big guys that aren't giants, that have potential to be a title threat. They have menace/ great promo skills/ Rey Meysterio tag along abilities. Joe can do some kicks, but he doesn't sparkle. I couldn't see him in WWE for one good reason, he is not good enough, in the ring and out the ring he is not WWE good. And sometimes I wonder about people like Ryhno, Joe and Abyss, whether [I]THEY[/I] are even [I]TNA[/I] material.[/QUOTE] :rolleyes:

[The Masked Orange]

[QUOTE=Actarus;536505]:rolleyes:[/QUOTE] Support me, Against me??? Or are you sighing going *Sigh* Typical Masked Orange

[tristram]

[QUOTE=The Masked Orange;536387]Sting is a legend. And I agree that podgy Samoan is Podgy and only got over because he weighed three pounds less than the average American. (Controversial!!!) But even when he was on top of WCW I still didn't receive him as a true champion. When there are people on the Indies like Nigel McGuinness and on the roster like Kurt Angle, why hand the strap and potential control over the main event mafia to Sting???[/QUOTE] I wouldn't have the title on Sting right now to be fair. But Sting's reigns in WCW were legendary. It's not just the 97-98 type period, but it's also his legendary feuds with Flair, Muta and others that lit up WCW back in the day. The run at the top in 1997-98 was my personal zenith in loving professional wrestling, it was the controversy at Starrcade where he should have gone over cleanly that cut me and my love for wrestling.

[Guest Ransik]

[QUOTE=The Masked Orange;536500]Samoa Joe? To me, he is not a credible champion. I have got to the stage where I am turning off the T.V and doing some [U]Gardening[/U] when it's his turn to wrestle. He has nothing about him to seperate him from any other Big Guy, except they have muscles, and he jiggles more. I think people like Kane, JBL and even though I hate him vehemotly, Batista are credible big guys that aren't giants, that have potential to be a title threat. They have menace/ great promo skills/ Rey Meysterio tag along abilities. Joe can do some kicks, but he doesn't sparkle. I couldn't see him in WWE for one good reason, he is not good enough, in the ring and out the ring he is not WWE good. And sometimes I wonder about people like Ryhno, Joe and Abyss, whether [I]THEY[/I] are even [I]TNA[/I] material.[/QUOTE] You lose all credibility in your argument with this post. You're gonna call Batista... who cannot hit his own finishers correctly let alone any basics moves correctly a credible guy to hold a World Title... but you're gonna say Sting isn't even at his age? And Joe? And please define "WWE good" when most of their "mega push" projects have ended up burning out and getting released within 2 years because they only push guys for "looking the part" instead of having the necessary tools to actually BE in the part. Abyss is willing to sacrifice himself physically for TNA while Batista throws fits and cries that he isn't World Champion when he breaks character all the time and cannot perform simple and basic maneuvers in the ring taught to all potential wrestlers their first day in training. And Joe has nothing that separates him? How about that he can outwrestle half the TNA roster and over 3/4 of the WWE roster and can perform moves guys half his size can't? I mean wow.... I just can't believe you made that post.

[Astil]

[QUOTE=Ransik;536753]You lose all credibility in your argument with this post. You're gonna call Batista... who cannot hit his own finishers correctly let alone any basics moves correctly a credible guy to hold a World Title... but you're gonna say Sting isn't even at his age? And Joe? And please define "WWE good" when most of their "mega push" projects have ended up burning out and getting released within 2 years because they only push guys for "looking the part" instead of having the necessary tools to actually BE in the part. Abyss is willing to sacrifice himself physically for TNA while Batista throws fits and cries that he isn't World Champion when he breaks character all the time and cannot perform simple and basic maneuvers in the ring taught to all potential wrestlers their first day in training. And Joe has nothing that separates him? How about that he can outwrestle half the TNA roster and over 3/4 of the WWE roster and can perform moves guys half his size can't? I mean wow.... I just can't believe you made that post.[/QUOTE] Ransik, he posts to get under people's skin.

[Guest Ransik]

[QUOTE=Astil;536755]Ransik, he posts to get under people's skin.[/QUOTE] Didn't get under my skin, just came off as a mark. Simply put after the time I spent in the ring, I would feel safer in a Clockwork House of Fun Match with Abyss and do what ever he asked me to do... than spend 5 minutes in a match with Batista... because with no weapons, fire, tacks, etc like with Abyss... I would fear for my life every time Batista were to pick me up.

[GatorBait19]

I have tried really hard not to get into arguments anymore, but to say Sting is not worthy; you are basically slapping people in the face, such faces as Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, and Randy Orton I say those names because they are around the same Height and Weight as Sting Sting is not one of those big men like Kane, JBL, or Batista; he is a light heavyweight which is 200 to 250lbs Second, the only wrestler in the group you mentioned that is good, is Kane, but for those who think hey Vince loves to push big guys, well guess what it's false, Kane has never been busted for anything and he has never complained about any dumb storyline he is put into, he just goes about wrestling his ass off, but yet is big title push, lasted one day And Batista, I met him at a IHOP in Tampa, on South Dale Mabry, very nice guy who went out of his way to talk to me even though all I said was hi, but he admitted to me and a group of friends that he goes out there and tries his hardest, so I can’t fault him for being bad, but I can't forgive him either And JBL, hate him, never liked him, and wish he stayed retired, if there is one thing I hate more than anything, it is JBL in a wrestling match, [B]I[/B] don’t think his promos are that good, and I use his matches as a restroom break, but that is me But back to the main thing, Sting is called the icon for a reason, because he is! and to say that he isn't a real Champion and that it should go to Angle is an insult, Sting puts people over, and I can't remember the last person younger than Kurt, that he put over?!? But I could be wrong, still I don't like Angle and I never have

[Self]

[QUOTE=GatorBait19;536778]I have tried really hard not to get into arguments anymore, but to say Sting is not worthy; you are basically slapping people in the face, such faces as Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, and Randy Orton.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between "Credible Champion" and "Worthy Champion". In my book, a credible champion is someone who looks like he could be the best fighter in the world. In his appearence. In his movements. He looks like a bad-ass. [I][CENTER]If Joe Public, with no prior knowledge of the history or inner workings of the wrestling business, was see this man in action for a few moments, would he think he was an awesome fighter?[/CENTER][/I] or another way... [I][CENTER]If wrestling was real, is it believable that this man is the best in the World?[/CENTER][/I] On the flip side, a Worthy Champion is a performer/character who can carry his promotion/brand. Who is entertaining and interesting enough to keep fans interested, and draw new ones to the product. Who has the respect, the work-rate, the legacy to deserve to be the focal point of the show. "Credible" is more "Does he satisfy the mark's view of a Champion" "Worthy" is more "Does he satisfy the smark's view of a Champion" Ric Flair? Not credible in my mind, but he would have been damned worthy. Shawn Michaels? Same deal. Randy Orton? Both. He's young. In great shape. His character is white-hot. He ticks both boxes. Sting is in the Flair/Shawn column for me. He's worthy, sure. He's done a lot for the business. He's still entertaining and interesting. It's just that physically he doesn't look like a legitimate Champion to me. I think that hurts the company when it comes to drawing in new fans. Samoa Joe on the other hand does look like a bad-ass. Highly credible that a Samoan who can move the way he does could be the best fighter in the world. Worthiness is another matter. His character has been ruined time and time again by TNA writers. He's weak. He's whiny. He sucker-headbutts people. I think about this stuff way too much...

[The Masked Orange]

[QUOTE=Self;536800]Samoa Joe on the other hand does look like a bad-ass. Highly credible that a Samoan who can move the way he does could be the best fighter in the world. Worthiness is another matter. His character has been ruined time and time again by TNA writers. He's weak. He's whiny. He sucker-headbutts people. I think about this stuff way too much...[/QUOTE] I see Samoa Joe as a whiny little man, who hasn't got enough menace to scare a buterfly. And yes, that is mainly because TNA has been booking him wrong. Samoa Joe would be so much of a more credible threat to the title if he was going through what Jeff Hardy is going through now. Going mental. That you may think, would make him another Abyss. But that's like saying because Hardy is losing it he is going to turn out to be another Cactus Jack. Joe is a great wrestler, I love his MMA influences. But I think they've pushed him as an angry big guy. He doesn't pull that off.

[wilts]

OK, first off, Sting as champion, if he is credible, to be honest, I don't give 2 doo-doos. He is worthy and that is that, sometimes the worthy people are just that, worthy/deserving of 1 last run. And based on some of his recent title runs, like that last few years winning the title and then losing it within a month, I think now he deserves a decent run. If it was BG James or someone similar, then sorry, but that wouldn't be credible or worthy, so yeah it would bug me, but I always have and will be a big sting fan, so if he has the title, it makes me tune in (or at least find clips on youtube). Now to Joe, oh Joe how I despise you. I have never understood his following, OK I'll give him a few points for his percieved talent, but credible? Come on, seriously? He reminds me of the slightly chubby kid at school running around on the football (soccer) pitch like a headless chicken, not having a clue what is going on. When I see him, I just want to tiggle his tummy and watch him wobble and shake when he is laughing. He doesn't look like a badass, plain and simple. He looks like a guy who has stayed up late every night with a good few tubs of Ben & Jerrys. Damn, even his wrestling gear looks naff! Saggy 10 year old boxer shorts? I have Y-fronts that have more menace!!! Conclusion : Sting for President of the Multiverse! Coming Soon : To a shopping centre (mall) near you, Samoa Joe as Santa Clause. Ho Ho Ho

[tristram]

[QUOTE=Self;536800]There's a difference between "Credible Champion" and "Worthy Champion". In my book, a credible champion is someone who looks like he could be the best fighter in the world. In his appearence. In his movements. He looks like a bad-ass. [I][CENTER]If Joe Public, with no prior knowledge of the history or inner workings of the wrestling business, was see this man in action for a few moments, would he think he was an awesome fighter?[/CENTER][/I] or another way... [I][CENTER]If wrestling was real, is it believable that this man is the best in the World?[/CENTER][/I] On the flip side, a Worthy Champion is a performer/character who can carry his promotion/brand. Who is entertaining and interesting enough to keep fans interested, and draw new ones to the product. Who has the respect, the work-rate, the legacy to deserve to be the focal point of the show. "Credible" is more "Does he satisfy the mark's view of a Champion" "Worthy" is more "Does he satisfy the smark's view of a Champion" [B]Ric Flair? Not credible in my mind, but he would have been damned worthy. Shawn Michaels? Same deal.[/B] Randy Orton? Both. He's young. In great shape. His character is white-hot. He ticks both boxes. [B]Sting is in the Flair/Shawn column for me. He's worthy, sure. He's done a lot for the business. He's still entertaining and interesting. It's just that physically he doesn't look like a legitimate Champion to me. I think that hurts the company when it comes to drawing in new fans.[/B] Samoa Joe on the other hand does look like a bad-ass. Highly credible that a Samoan who can move the way he does could be the best fighter in the world. Worthiness is another matter. His character has been ruined time and time again by TNA writers. He's weak. He's whiny. He sucker-headbutts people. I think about this stuff way too much...[/QUOTE] I hotly contest that. Firstly, people do buy the David and Goliath tales. Secondly, a legitimately big guy can tire anerobically. They can get burned if the little man shows courage to defy some attacks and is able to wear him down. Thirdly, the bigger they are, the harder they fall. The classic 'bringing the man down to your own size' by taking out his knees used to a heavily used wrestling tactic in the 70s and 80s to make those not-over Giants beatable. A lot of those has been lost in today's world of quick paced action... not saying either is better, just drawing a comparison. Fourthly, the ropes of the wrestling ring bring a lot of equality into it. You can escape via them for respite, you can use the ring ropes as a positioning tool (IE if you get back in first if you're good enough there are a variety of ways of attacking your opponent before getting them back in), you can fly (most big guys can't)... There's an old saying about Ric Flair and I believe it holds true for Sting. "Ric Flair could wrestle a great match with a broom (I think it was broom, may have been umbrella)". They know how to sell, and they know how to make it believable. The best example with Sting was the match against the Giant in WCW in 1998 to split the World Tag Team Championships, Giant kills him from pillar to post, Sting keeps surviving, and then hits a super scorpion death drop for extra leverage because that was the only believable way that Sting could go over. Great wrestlers like Flair and Sting will have you believe. And that makes them worthy and credible.