Who shouldn't be in the NFL?

[darthsiddus2]

would be nice but would not work Television wise. I completely agree with a premirship idea.

[Nedew]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="darthsiddus2" data-cite="darthsiddus2" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="20903" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>would be nice but would not work Television wise.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> How so? Our Premiership garners a £600 million ($1.2 billion) TV deal every year that gets divided amongst the clubs participating that season. Must be working somehow for the TV execs <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> Also it's a tad unrelated to the league system, but a few Premership TV facts <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> (from <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2325057/Premier-League-is-world's-favourite-league.html" rel="external nofollow">this</a> article)</p><p> </p><p> "An estimated worldwide audience of one billion watched Manchester United play Arsenal on Saturday"</p><p> </p><p> "Premier League games are broadcast to 600 million homes in 202 countries across Europe, Asia, Australasia, Oceania, Africa, the Americas and the Middle East. And, after doubling the value of those rights this year to £625 million, there is a feeling they could eventually be worth more than the £1.7 billion currently being paid for the domestic rights by Sky and Setanta."</p><p> </p><p> Ok I'm done bragging now <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[darthsiddus2]

you would need to know what games are able to be shown on which regional and which TV network needs to be blacked out. which TV network has exclusive rights to what important league game.

[GatorBait19]

also, aren't there more teams in those divisions, football is only so big, and they somewhat had that with the AFL and the other league that saw Trump own a team back in the day, and the NFL is the only one that makes money, so I think until we find away to get more team with financial security, we might have to stick with one league

[MattitudeV2]

Donte Stallworth: When the biggest free agent name you can come up with is Donte Stallowrth, you know that you shouldn't have even bothered.Does he have some talent when healthy? Sure. But the operative words there are WHEN HEALTHY.

 

Which was for one or 2 games this year how about add

Braylon Edwards

Kellen Winslow

Half the Browns defense

Derek Anderson

Rob Chudzinski

Mel Tucker

[Remianen]

if they had better coaches yea you would do better. it all starts with the position coaches who train the talent.

 

No it's not. You completely disregard scheme, which is a huge mistake. If the scheme fits the players (or you get the players to fit your scheme), a coach can be very successful. Need proof? See Walsh, Bill and Johnson, Jimmy.

 

Players are good because they have the skills to do it, not because of the coaches in the NFL

 

And I know I am going to get criticized for this, but name me one coach who didn't have a great QB to help them? Yeah Walsh and Parcells, and Bill Belichick have always had good QB to help them, cuz look Belichick didn't have Brady in Cleveland and he didn't win, but back to the point

 

Coaches in the NFL don't win the games, they may call the plays, but the players win the games

 

No offense GatorBait but have you actually played this game, at any level? There are players playing in the NFL who absolutely don't belong there. You have TONS of players who continue to stink up the joint but get chance after chance because the team "invested" too much in them to cut them outright. There are many tender-bellied coaches who simply would not cut a first or second round draft pick, no matter how bad they might be (Herm Edwards, I'm lookin' at you). One of my friends was a first rounder for the Broncos (Marcus Nash) and he looked lost most of the time he was on the field. He's got two Super Bowl rings though (Denver & Baltimore).

 

And to answer your question, Brian Billick. That is, unless you consider Trent Dilfer to be a "great QB". How 'bout Jon Gruden? What's Brad Johnson's chances at the Hall of Fame (as anything but a VISITOR)? Bill Cowher went to a Super Bowl with Neil O'Donnell starting at quarterback. Question: where's Stan Humphries in the list of great quarterbacks? Because, last I recall, the Chargers went to a Super Bowl with him as the starter. Do I really need to continue?

 

Seriously, if you think coaches have nothing to do with winning games, why is Tampa in mourning over Monte leaving? Where'd the West Coast offense come from? A player? How 'bout the Run & Shoot, which to this day is still used by every team in the league in some form (any multi-receiver set with an empty backfield or a single back is a run & shoot variant). I'm sure Mike Martz is paid more than several head coaches because he's useless to affect game outcomes too. Ask the Ryan family about how useless they are. Buddy designed the 46 defense (as a blatant offshoot of the 52, with some unique wrinkles) and now his SONS are head coaching candidates by doing many of the things dear ol' dad did. What did Tony Romo say last night? The Eagles "exposed" the Cowboys' schemes? I'm sure Jim Johnson had nothing to do with that. Dick LeBeau is highly respected as a coach because he has a sparkling personality, right? Can't be that he designs schemes that fit his personnel, putting them in the best situations possible. Naw! Dom Capers got two head coaching jobs (not one, but two) because he looks cool standing on a sideline. Couldn't be because of the success of his zone-blitz schemes. Inconceivable!

 

I get what you're trying to say, but you're talking purely from a fan's perspective. In reality, coaches do affect the outcomes of games. Imagine trying to run a spread offense with the Jets. You'd FAIL because they don't have the right personnel for it. Try running Baltimore's defensive scheme in Cleveland. Most teams in the league (perhaps even the Lions) would shred you.

 

See I am trying to see your side but it's hard because you really can't teach knowledge

 

I mean Micheal Vick had a coach who help Elway! but Vick wasn't smart at the position

 

Marvin Lewis was once the mastermind behind the Ravens D, but in Cincy, they aren't that good

 

And College coaches, people who are still teaching players how to play the game and their position still, don't do well in the NFL most times, so the coaches thing to me doesn't effect players, players effect themselves

 

Injuries, Skills, Brains, Work Ethic, these to me are what makes a player good, not the coaches and so to me, no if you had better coaches you still wouldn't play better than those players

 

Umm, this is just odd. Dan Reeves did not "help" Elway. Jack Elway and Mike Shanahan (and Gary Kubiak) did. Reeves didn't even LIKE the way Elway played. He was old school, dropback pocket passer all the way. As a Broncos fan (since Craig Morton was quarterback), this is an example I can blow up easily. Reeves and Elway stayed out of each others' way. Who called the plays on The Drive? Hint: it wasn't Dan Reeves.

 

So college coaches don't do well in the NFL most times, eh? Go look at every member of the coaches wing in the Hall of Fame. Now, count how many of them DIDN'T coach at the college level. G'head, I'll wait. It's funny how folks will grab onto a Steve Spurrier and wave it around like it's the only example of a college coach being head man in the pros. How quickly people forget folks like Jimmy Johnson. Go ahead and cite Pete Carroll, then compare the two teams. The Jets he coached SUCKED, they had next to no talent. How does that compare to USC (who usually has their pick of the finest athletes on the west coast)?

 

Honestly, how often do you follow or watch the draft or the combine? Have you never heard anyone question whether a quarterback is a product of the "system" he played in in college or whether he's truly talented (see: Brennan, Colt; Klingler, David; Ware, Andre; Daniel, Chase)? 'Nother hint: "system" is synonymous with COACHING. Coaches devise and implement the system, often recruiting players that fit that system. You don't recruit a Brandon Jacobs to play in a June Jones offense.

 

Clearly the entire Jets organization needs to be swallowed whole if not for the choke job they did this year, than for knocking off 5 years of my life expectancy for making me believe they can actually do something this year before doing what they did in the last 4 weeks.

 

And seriously.... Eric Mangini needs to go. To another team, to another city, to another country, to hell, I do not care, he cannot coach here.

 

Go look at the Jets' draft last year. It's a mess! They took Vernon Gholston and left Curtis Lofton on the board (something that the Falcons are probably overjoyed about right now). They need speed at the receiver position but they passed on Eddie Royal and DeSean Jackson (he's too short!). Then again, these are probably the same people who thought Wes Welker was "too small" to be a successful receiver (oops?). Don't get me wrong, I think Dustin Keller is going to be HUGE if used right. But Vernon Gholston is far too much of a tweener to have gone that high. Too small to play with a hand on the ground and too slow (intelligence wise, play recognition) to play in space reliably.

 

as much as i love him, Mike Shanahan needs to get off his high horse and get a person who picks the defensive players so that we can make the playoffs.

 

No. Mike Shanahan needs to find a defensive coordinator with actual vision. I don't like Bob Slowik. I think his schemes are oversimplified and he's horrible at masking blitzes. People don't realize how much it disables you when a quarterback knows exactly where the blitz is coming from. That makes him able to audible to a different play or identify his hot read before the snap ever occurs. I don't think I've ever seen the Broncos run an all-out blitz with Cover 2 up top this season. The Eagles did it like a dozen times against the Cowboys (and Romo was SHOOK as a result).

 

to tell the truth I don't think I have ever seen this many teams cough up leads

 

Bucs, Jets, Broncos, Bears, Cowboys, Redskins

 

and does anyone else agree that this whole divison stuff is overrated and the top 6 records should make the playoffs

 

New England, and some NFC teams were left out, who are much better as well than the two west teams who won the divisons

 

Scrap the divisional format and you destroy regional rivalries. You also kill any kind of scheduling pull you might have.

 

There's not enough talent to make that viable on the pro level. Although I would love to see this at the college level.A hundred and eighteen teams battling for one national championship? REALLY?!!! That's what I don't get.

 

Ugh, don't even start. The cluster that is the FBS is just crazy.

 

edit: I really didn't intend the above to sound so...aggressive toward's GatorBait's point of view. But this is an area I'm VERY passionate about, having played for almost 25 years and coached (up to high school) for 10. Discounting coaching in a team's success with W's and L's is just about as wrong to me as discounting parenting in a person's development to adulthood. As we know, some parents are just flat out better than others, for a myriad of reasons. The same goes for coaches. The main difference is, a parent can't decide who their child is (and vice versa) but a coach can decide who their players are, for the most part. Sorry if it comes off as hostile. That wasn't my intent, though I did intend to convey passion on the subject.

[GatorBait19]

You're right your abouslty right Remianen, I mean i must be talking out my ***, I must not have ever played the game at any level, hell the 10 thousand my dad spent to try to get my leg repaired so his son could continue to play the way he was doesn't mean anything

 

 

Your right, scrap the divisional format and kiss Dallas vs the East goodbye, and kiss St. Louis vs the West good......... wait, isn't Dallas more West than St. Louis...... wow, NFL must not have a map, and yeah you could say "oh well they wanted to keep the rivalries going!!!!" and your right they did, that's why we will throw the Bucs, Panthers, Falcons, and Saints into a division and we will do hmm let's see Colts, Jags, Texans, and Titans and we will call them the south........ because Colts are almost touching the Equator!

 

 

And my memory might be a little messed up, but Reeves was the one who traded for Elway, but once again people do lie!

 

And you're right, Gruden, Brain, Cowher didn't have great QB.... hmm let's see, Brain only got his job because of how great he ran an Offense in Minnesota... not in the league anymore, Cowher (great coach or maybe he stayed around so long because hell the Steelers don't get rid of anybody) won his Title with Big Ben, who is a pretty good QB, and Gruden.... let's see Johnson went to the Pro Bowl that year, had Rich Gannon at one point, and man wait, was that his team.... Brooks, Keyshawn, Brad, Barber, Lynch.... sounds like a bunch of people Tony drafted

 

and you are right, as a person who lives in Tampa and works on a AM radio show, i get tired of the Monte thing too. I mean hell it's been awhile since he got here, and people stop b*tching, listen just because a coach leaves, doesn't mean who should give up 900 yards rushing in just four weeks!

 

 

and about the coaching thing with the different systems in these places, we wont know till someone tries it, but if we ran a spread with the Jets, Farve might do well, hell he'd have five jet's WR at all times, that what..... 1 out of 11 possibility that he doesn't hit a Dolphin player????

 

 

Dick LeBeau................... didn't he lose in Cincy with that same Defense? I mean at that point you could say Cincy just sucks..... and their fans might even agree

 

But I will give you one thing, which I do agree with, Coaches do make nice schemes

 

 

And If Shanahan did such wonders for Elway, why has Griese or Plummer (oddly enough both are on the Bucs) and yeah sure Cutler had a nice year this year 25 TD, and 18 INT....... yeah and Rivers didn't make the Pro Bowl? hey at least he's in the playoffs! sorry that was kind of a low blow

 

 

 

 

College coaches..... man yeah let's just hang out hats on Steve only.... wait.... erm.... uhhh.... what's his name......... they coach in the SEC..... AP coach of the year..... uhhh... roll tide.... dumb chant...... Nick.... uhhh... Sabin.... and Bobby P.

 

Wait what about Butch Davis, Dennis Erickson, Lou Holtz, Lane Kiffin, what about Barry Switzer (sure has a SB ring but with Johnson's team) Rich Brooks, Mike Riley, June Jones just to name a few that you forgot

 

 

but Remianen, you make good points, my view on Coaches has changed a little, without Walsh, Rich Rodriguez (most say he invented the Spread), Mr. Ryan, and Kiffin the NFL wouldn't have different systems which make certain players good, so Coaches Schemes help players, but I still don't think Coaches make players better

 

 

and if you didn't catch it before, yeah I did play football this isn't the fan's perspective, was scrambling around and a D-Line men took out my knee cap, I can barely run for more than a mile with out having agonizing pain, so next time you question someones ability to talk about a subject.......think?

[AfRoMaN36]

as much as i love him, Mike Shanahan needs to get off his high horse and get a person who picks the defensive players so that we can make the playoffs.

 

Or one who can teach his team to hold a lead every now and then would be nice also.

 

Brett Farve needs to leave as well. And I dont just mean leave the team, he needs to leave planet Earth.

 

I had no clue the big "C" on his chest stood for "can't throw a football."

[Remianen]

As I said in my edit, it wasn't meant to come off as a slam at you. But let's be real here. In the NFL, it has been proven that you can win championships without great quarterbacks. All you need is a game manager if you have a top-flight defense. Look at the Bears, who went to a Super Bowl with freakin' Rex Grossman taking the snaps.

 

Regional rivalries draw money, period. Yankees-Red Sox is a great example in the present day. Likewise, the entire NFC East is proof of that. You can't blame the lack of quality in a division (*cough*AFC/NFC West*cough*) for a lack of compelling matchups in the current divisional format.

 

I kinda think Pat Bowlen & Ed Kaiser had more to do with the Elway trade than Dan Reeves. Reeves never had total control over the Broncos' football operations. He always had to run everything by Pat/Edgar and John Beake and many of his decisions were questionable at best (see: Humphrey, Bobby).

 

Also, keep it real. Making the Pro Bowl isn't what it used to be, considering how many people make it based on reputation alone, not same year performance. You think Brett Favre really deserved a Pro Bowl nod this year over Chad Pennington? REALLY??? And I never said a word about who built a team. Your question was regarding winning without great quarterback. Brad Johnson, is not a great quarterback. Trent Dilfer, is not a great quarterback. Rich Gannon, is not a great quarterback. Rex Grossman, is not a great quarterback. Neil O'Donnell, is not a great quarterback.

 

I love Monte Kiffin. His defensive schemes were always aggressive, which differs from a lot of DCs. His defenses attacked, they dictated to the offense instead of being dictated to. The success of this approach is easily apparent when you consider how many Kiffin disciples are running defenses (and entire teams) right now. It's like how all of Buddy Ryan's assistants got promotions after 85 and how many of his players (and his sons!) are running teams and/or defenses now. Tony Dungy as a disciple of Dick LeBeau is another good example.

 

As I said before, I took umbrage with your opinion that coaches have nothing to do with W's and L's. That's so far from the truth, it's crazy. Having played the game, you should know better. If you know the difference between a 2-gap and a 3-gap defense, you also know the difference in personnel for each of those. You'd know that one requires tackles that take up space and the other requires tackles who are quick and can rush the passer effectively. You'd know that no 3-4 or 4-3 defense can be successful without tackles who free up the middle or inside linebackers to make plays. That's scheme, which is a result of coaching. You cite Dick LeBeau's lack of success in Cincinnati but then I come right back at you and cite Pittsburgh's defense of today. See the difference? That's why I was totally taken aback that anyone who played could simply write off coaching as unimportant.

 

Brett Favre on today's Jets would die in a spread offense. He doesn't have the receivers around him to make that system work. It'd work in Arizona though, due solely to personnel. Can't effectively double team three receivers and Boldin, Fitzgerald, and Doucet would be a pick your poison proposition.

 

In Shanahan's defense, you can't question his system. Ask any quarterback whether they'd like to play in a system where ANYBODY can be effective running the ball, pass protection is solid no matter what the size/build of the linemen are, and play action is a given. No QB would complain about that. Hell, most running backs would kill to play in the one-cut. Put a talented running back behind Cutler and they'd have a 2k rushing season easy, because defenses couldn't put 8 people in the box or Marshall & Royal & Stokley & Sheffler would murder you. I'd love to see Larry Johnson in orange & blue but it'll never happen. First, Kansas City isn't going to trade him to a division rival and second, Shanahan's not going to pay top dollar for him when he knows anyone with two functioning legs could do decently well in his system. Okay, maybe not "OH MY GOD, don't touch me!" Reggie Bush. Just look at how many backs who were successful in Denver, stunk up the joint when they left (Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, hell everyone except Clinton Portis). Scheme. Coaching.

 

And you name off the failures and false starts. Should I name off all the coaches who came from the college ranks and won? We could be here a while. How 'bout you start with....ahh, what's that guy's....silver trophy they give to a team at the end of the playoffs...running to daylight.....winning isn't everything, it's the only thing....old dude with a gap in his teeth. Oh yeah, Vince Lombardi! More present day, there's that other dude. Used to run Boston College's program? God, can't remember his...Coughin', Coughlin?

 

I apologize for besmirching your credentials. As I said, I couldn't understand how anyone who played could say coaching was basically a non-factor in success. Hell, to this day, whenever I talk to folks who play or played, everyone has their favorite system(s) and/or plays. I'm probably the only runningback who loves the run & shoot. Everyone else I know, prefers power-I or option or wishbone or flexbone or even wing-t. I'm also one of the few corners who loves being left on an island. In high school, my DC had such a blatant tendency (he'd send the strong safety after the quarterback 60% of the time) that teams schemed to attack a single area of the field (8-10 yards upfield, usually with a tight end) so our linebackers had more INTs than sacks and our SS had more sacks/TFLs than 2 of our 3 LBs. I'd freakin' love to play in Jim Johnson's system.

 

But to answer the original question, that list is too long. I find, as I mentioned, there are a lot of players in the NFL simply because of a boneheaded decision someone made. "We can't cut him! He's a first-round draft pick!". So they cover poop with perfume and think it actually works. If you want examples, how 'bout Chris Perry of the Bengals? The man puts the ball on the ground almost as much as a basketball player ffs!!!

[CQI13]

Besides Adam Jones, because I think he shouldn't be in because of his attitude either, you all make nice points, but here is my thing

 

If the people who ragged on the Lions, were on the lions, would the lions win?

 

could you guys do better than people on the Lions or Dolphins of last year, could you play better than anyone already in the NFL?

 

could CQI13 play better than Jet Farve?

 

Maybe it's us as fan just being fans, and giving our opinion on the teams and players, but could we really play or for that matter, do better than they did?

 

That is the question you have to ask, can you play or even coach better than the people you tease in blogs and things?

 

So if that's the question we should have asked, why didn't you ask that to begin with. Can you coach better than all those coaches you discredit? And working on an AM show, if hosts didn't have OPINIONS, there would be no shows.

 

I don't thik I criticized his play (though I could have -- he crapped the bed the last 5 weeks, and this from the savior of the Jets). And if he can't hack it, he shouldn't be playing anymore. No shame in retiring gracefully.

 

And as for Cowher, he had 11 winning seasons, 3 losing seasons, and 1 .500 season. Worst stretch was a 7-9 season and a 6-10 season back to back. He had one other 6-10 season, and obviously an 8-8. So I'm pretty sure he stuck around because he's winning. And losing as many players as they did in the 90's, there was hardly a drop off from year to year. So he only won one SB? Thirty one teams a year don't win a SB, we should get rid of those coaches too.

 

As for the Divisions:

 

Indy could be in either the North (replace Baltimore) or East (replace Miami). Neither of which would happen because the Jets/Bills wouldn't let it happen. As I recall, it was the Bills that were opposed to moving the Dolphins out of the division. And Cleveland/Pittsburgh wouldn't let Baltimore leave, so you're stuck with that.

 

The whole NFC East is a giant rivalry, so that can't be touched. And you're telling me NO, Carolina, Tampa and Atlanta have natural rivalries that should be respected? I think they would have when the divisions were re-aligned if they had any. That much is obvious.

[darthsiddus2]

No it's not. You completely disregard scheme, which is a huge mistake. If the scheme fits the players (or you get the players to fit your scheme), a coach can be very successful. Need proof? See Walsh, Bill and Johnson, Jimmy\.

 

I love how you completely disregarded my statement about the playbook. playbook=scheme. yet you turned my statement and made it your own by stating exactly what I just said. good job hehe

[GatorBait19]

here is still my thing about schemes, yes they work.... if you have the right players, but my coach was a run 90% of the time type coach and we had a running back who ran a 5.14, hell I ran faster than him by .5

 

But so he ran it to much and 50% of the time I would call a different play and have to pass

 

 

The divisional thing, here is what I meant, not get rid of them, because they do work, but if a team like SD or ARI goes 9-7 and 8-8 then other teams should be looked at to fill that spot, that was my idea

 

 

College coaches are useless, because we could go on forever about coaches who failed and you didn't

 

 

and I like Cowher I really do, i was just saying in Pitt. it's easy to keep your job for a long time because that team doesn't know the word fire

 

 

And no the whole point of this was, there is no reason to say a player sucks or that he shouldn't be playing, because 99% of the time you couldn't play better, you can say Farve sucks, but would Kelly Clemens really have done a better job? and yeah Pennington had a good year with the Dolphins, doesn't mean he would have done the same with the Jets, different system right Remianen, we had a show this morning where a guy called in saying Brooks should have gotten out of the game, he's old and he's a bum, and the first thing that came out of my mouth was, "Who the hell are you, Rey Lewis?"

 

The fact is, players play hard, they give their hearts and souls to this sport, and some will never be big names, they run into this sport with the risk of getting hurt and the NFL not even giving them enough money to live the rest of their lives, if you can do better, then go to an open try-out, bust your ass, and you make the squad, if not shut up

[jbergey_2005]

Really? America is a country of 300 million people and they can't do a two-tier league system of say, 40 teams? (20 in each)

 

For comparison, the English (population: 51 million) league system as a whole has 26 'pyramid' levels, consisting of 480 individual leagues (to save word confusion, it consist of 480 competitions - that is to say, groups of teams who play each other). That's over 7000 (yes, SEVEN THOUSAND) teams (playing at least 77,000 players) in total, all of whom could get relegated down right to the bottom from the top or promoted to the top, right from the bottom (albeit taking 26 years of consecutive promotions and going from a level where about 20 people are in the crowd up to the all-seater stadiums of 60,000).

 

Basically, REALLY? Not enough?

 

Your idea sounds good in a lot of ways however at this point just isnt possible because of the American setup. Most importantly the NFL draft. In Europe they get their players most via transfers and at a very young age. In the NFL they get their players from college via the draft in which the worst teams get the higher picks. Im not sure how much the networks would like it if all the top rookies are going to the teams in the 2nd division.

 

Of course you could split up the draft to where as the top picks are going to the teams in the upper division however that will make it extremely difficult for the teams in the 2nd tier to compete at the top level in which we arent sitting any better than we currently are,

[GatorBait19]

my whole thing is our system works, and well. I mean you guys loan players and trade and stuff like that, trades in the NFL are few and far between because of how hard it is to complete, but 32 teams is nice and the only way to make it 40 and still keep the 4 team divisions would be to create 2 more divisions one AFC and NFC and then have only one wild card spot, which man would make NFL even crazier come playoff time

[mike b]

Really? America is a country of 300 million people and they can't do a two-tier league system of say, 40 teams? (20 in each)

 

For comparison, the English (population: 51 million) league system as a whole has 26 'pyramid' levels, consisting of 480 individual leagues (to save word confusion, it consist of 480 competitions - that is to say, groups of teams who play each other). That's over 7000 (yes, SEVEN THOUSAND) teams (playing at least 77,000 players) in total, all of whom could get relegated down right to the bottom from the top or promoted to the top, right from the bottom (albeit taking 26 years of consecutive promotions and going from a level where about 20 people are in the crowd up to the all-seater stadiums of 60,000).

 

Basically, REALLY? Not enough?

American pro football has 52 players per team

Soccer(Football) only has 15 that's why

[Nedew]

Fair points with regards to the draft, as though that's an alien concept to me i'm sure it changes, well, everything.

 

American pro football has 52 players per team

Soccer(Football) only has 15 that's why

 

On this though, football teams have 11 players on the pitch at any time, with (usually, though it varies depending on the country) 7 substitutes. Then squad players to make up numbers will bring you up to about a 25 man squad for each team.

 

52 players? FIFTY TWO!? The glimpses i've seen of american football pitches have had at most 30 people on them, how big are your reserve sides?

[CQI13]

here is still my thing about schemes, yes they work.... if you have the right players, but my coach was a run 90% of the time type coach and we had a running back who ran a 5.14, hell I ran faster than him by .5

 

But so he ran it to much and 50% of the time I would call a different play and have to pass

 

 

The divisional thing, here is what I meant, not get rid of them, because they do work, but if a team like SD or ARI goes 9-7 and 8-8 then other teams should be looked at to fill that spot, that was my idea

 

 

College coaches are useless, because we could go on forever about coaches who failed and you didn't

 

 

and I like Cowher I really do, i was just saying in Pitt. it's easy to keep your job for a long time because that team doesn't know the word fire

 

 

And no the whole point of this was, there is no reason to say a player sucks or that he shouldn't be playing, because 99% of the time you couldn't play better, you can say Farve sucks, but would Kelly Clemens really have done a better job? and yeah Pennington had a good year with the Dolphins, doesn't mean he would have done the same with the Jets, different system right Remianen, we had a show this morning where a guy called in saying Brooks should have gotten out of the game, he's old and he's a bum, and the first thing that came out of my mouth was, "Who the hell are you, Rey Lewis?"

 

The fact is, players play hard, they give their hearts and souls to this sport, and some will never be big names, they run into this sport with the risk of getting hurt and the NFL not even giving them enough money to live the rest of their lives, if you can do better, then go to an open try-out, bust your ass, and you make the squad, if not shut up

 

I disagree and I'll tell you why:

 

**You can't not give division winners a spot, simply based on record. You can't control who you play. The schedule is made, and that's all you have to go on. You don't like it? How about you win a couple more games and not have to deal with that?

 

**College coaches aren't useless. They're good college coaches for the most part. And a lot of NFL coaches couldn't cut it in college either. There's recruiting, there's the 20 hour rule, there is keeping tabs on your assistants to make sure they are not making phone calls when they aren't supposed to. Exceptions exist going both ways.

 

**You say Pittsburgh doesn't fire people like it's a bad thing. If people would fire coaches for not winning a Super Bowl, there would be a 31 person coaching carousel every year. One team wins. All the others lose. And switching coaches often isn't beneficial. Because you're switching systems so often, and you may not have the right players for that system.

 

**Wow, there are so many things I disagree with in that last statement. Yes, I can say a player sucks. I can say a coach sucks. Because it's an OPINION. It is your opinion that I can't and you're entitled to it. But you're coming off across as extremely bitter or something in this whole discussion. Guess what -- you can't criticize anyone then. EVER. Not even HS football players, since you don't play anymore. Certainly not NFL. Or College football. Or any basketball. See how ridiculous those statements sound? You should be an anchor so you can report things, not anything where people would want your opinion. Having not played the majority of sports, it's not valid right?

 

About the Pennington thing: You're going to tell me that he wouldn't have been successful in the SAME system he had before he left, with a good offensive line, a monster running game, and being healthy? PLEASE! (Jets have a better OLine, better running game, and Chad wasn't hurt this year). He also had more yards/pass than a lot of players, noodle arm and all. And believe it or not, more completions on long passes than Brett.

 

And as a final comment: Gatorbait, meet disingenuous. Disingenuous, meet Gatorbait.

[GatorBait19]

Who in the blue hell are you

 

See you come off as arrogant, talking like you know everything

 

great your opinion that's wonderful I don't give two sh*ts

 

I wasn't saying Pitt. not firing anybody is a bad thing, just said it helps coaches who go there

 

your first argument makes no sense, you can't not give division winners a spot, are you saying I can't give up their spot or what?

 

And College you can be a god forever, not the NFL, so to say that good coaches in the NFL wouldn't be good in College is an insult to any coach, see when I say College coaches don't do well in NFL, it's because a lot haven't, but there are a lot at the same time who have done well, but College must be easier, because Sabin and Bobby P. both went back along with many others

 

 

I'm not bitter trust me, what happened to my knee was a blessing in disguise, because now I get to talk sports every morning from 5 to 10, and I don't criticize people, wrestlers, sports stars, movie stars, because they go out there and try their hardest,

 

and to say that Pennington is better than Farve is an insult to Farve's career, yes Pennington had a much better year, but Pennington didn't do well in New York, maybe because of the Media, maybe because of other reason, but the Jets saw something that they didn't like, which was why he got cut

 

I like Chad, always have I think him getting out of New York was the best thing for his career, but no i don't think he was the right fit for that system

 

 

And CQI13 please meet **** because all you do is eat ****

[jagilki]

....

 

Let's please all just calm down and debate this like gentlemen

[CQI13]

GB, that's hilarious dude. Seriously. You can't not give them = you have to give them.

 

And what exactly do you say on your show. What opinions do you have exactly? A simple blanket statement that everyone that's in the league tries hard? They should get a participation trophy then. and the asterisks I was using were bullet points, not foul language. Whatever. This has made my afternoon more fun.

 

Funny how you say I come across as arrogant (been told that before, but it's water off a duck's back) but I clearly stated it was my OPINION. Far different than facts.

 

And some NFL coaches probably couldn't do well in the NFL. If Kiffin succeeds, he wasn't a successful NFL coach, so I would consider him a good College coach. It's the same for coordinator to head coach or college player to pro player.

 

Wade Phillips, Dick LeBeau, Chan Gailey, Mike Mularkey, Norv Turner, Rod Marinelli, etc. were all very good coordinators (by way of schemes, talent, etc). Not really good head coaches.

 

We'll never truly know NFL to College coaches...anyone successful enough in the pros won't go down to college.

 

And some players peak in college (Wuerffel, Charlie Ward, Michael Vick, Rex Grossman, Rasham Salaam, Curtis Enis). A bunch of others I'm sure. Good to great in college, awful in the pros.

 

My attempt at humor was obviously lost on you, so I won't even bother explaining that.

[GatorBait19]

so I'm guessing you were the fat kid at football camps who got a trophy just cause who showed up

 

Listen I'm not trying to be a ****, really I'm not and your so funny, blank sheet, we sit there for five hours and not talk, would have been fired by now

 

and no you can criticize that I don't care about, but don't rip someone when you couldn't do any better

 

and do you know why water rolls of a duck's back? because I do

[CQI13]

I applaud you. I would say something relevant to your post, but I can't really see it. I'm sure it was insightful though.

[mike b]

On this though, football teams have 11 players on the pitch at any time, with (usually, though it varies depending on the country) 7 substitutes. Then squad players to make up numbers will bring you up to about a 25 man squad for each team.

 

52 players? FIFTY TWO!? The glimpses i've seen of american football pitches have had at most 30 people on them, how big are your reserve sides?

It depends on the coach but yr usually looking at 13 reserves or more for offense and defense units. And that's just pro.

Your major college teams haves rosters of up to 100 plus players

[foolinc]

Fair points with regards to the draft, as though that's an alien concept to me i'm sure it changes, well, everything.

 

 

 

On this though, football teams have 11 players on the pitch at any time, with (usually, though it varies depending on the country) 7 substitutes. Then squad players to make up numbers will bring you up to about a 25 man squad for each team.

 

52 players? FIFTY TWO!? The glimpses i've seen of american football pitches have had at most 30 people on them, how big are your reserve sides?

 

There are only 11 players active players on the field per side, but the total active roster for each team is 53 players. And unlike association football there are no reserves in the same way you know them. For each game, 8 players from the total 53 must be declared inactive for the game, the rest are subs that will most likely get into the game at some point. Also there are very few players that will play on both defense and offense. This is the main reason for the relatively large size of our teams.

[cappyboy]

Which was for one or 2 games this year how about add

Braylon Edwards

Kellen Winslow

Half the Browns defense

Derek Anderson

Rob Chudzinski

Mel Tucker

 

Oh come on man. No need to get reactionary here. Edwards and Winslow both tore it up last year. Let Quinn get healthy and get a full season in as our starter and I won't worry about either. Granted Edwards has always had issues with his hands. But I can't place either his or Winslow's struggles purely on them. Receivers are dependent players and can only be as good as their quarterback. The Browns QB situation was never truly healthy from the point when Derek Anderson got his head scrambled in the preseason.

 

Which is why i wouldn't put Anderson on that list either. He got hustled back from that preseason concussion and it doesn't seem like he ever fully recovered because of it. Looking back I really question whether Anderson should have played at all at the beginning of the season. If we didn't have last season as evidence he can play at this level and he hadn't gotten head-dropped in a meaningless game, that would be one thing. What happened is quite another.

 

And what would you have had Chudzinski do that he didn't? Dude never had a fully formed receiving corps this year. He was stuck having to play musical chairs at quarterback. And he calls a pretty nice balance of run and pass. In the month since the college coaching openings started opening, I kept pleading with the universe to let us fire Romeo NOW so Chud could be the interim coach and Mel Tucker could start applying for said openings. I understand the desire to bash everyone wholesale after a season like this. But if there was one assistant I was happy with, it was Chud. He appeared to be at least TRYING to do his job competently.