Who shouldn't be in the NFL?

[jbergey_2005]

so I'm guessing you were the fat kid at football camps who got a trophy just cause who showed up

 

Listen I'm not trying to be a ****, really I'm not and your so funny, blank sheet, we sit there for five hours and not talk, would have been fired by now

 

and no you can criticize that I don't care about, but don't rip someone when you couldn't do any better

 

and do you know why water rolls of a duck's back? because I do

 

 

You had made some points previously Gator so I wasnt going to comment but I do think the part where you say we(as fans) cant criticize players because 99% of them are better at football than we ever were or ever will be isnt something I agree with. If they get paid great money and if they arent doing a very good job why cant we critique their perfomance? If you hire a financial advisor and they lose money for you year after year does that mean you cant criticize their performance because they passed their series 7? IMO it is perfectly normal for any of us to critique professional athletes. If you just meant college or high school sports I would agree with you to a certain extent. The players that play college sports with no intentions of ever getting to the pros should be treated differently as they are doing it JUST for the love of the game.

[GatorBait19]

there it is! jbergey_2005

 

 

 

you finally answered the question

 

 

see we asked it on the show one day and it started a huge fight between people, callers would b*tch about other callers and this and that, and finally one caller called and said this

 

and I quote "It's like my grandfather said when people criticize government. his words would be, Did you vote? then shut the hell up, same goes with the NFL or any sports," (college include because a lot of the players are on full rides, which is like getting paid in a way), but back to the caller, he then says "If you pay for the games, the tickets the merchandise, buy the newspaper just to read the sports section, then yeah you should be able to cut down the players, but if you're just a fan who sits at home and watches a game and doesn't spend money on the stuff, or you hear about it, than shut the hell up!"

 

My boss has never stood in so much silence before that, and the guy was right, if you don't contribute to anything then shut up, like people in baseball who say the Yankees spend to much, well do you pay to watch baseball, no.... well then it's not your money

 

so finally some one on this forum got it, and no I'm not saying anyones dumb because hey I never even thought of it like that till the caller said something

[Remianen]

Really? America is a country of 300 million people and they can't do a two-tier league system of say, 40 teams? (20 in each)

 

For comparison, the English (population: 51 million) league system as a whole has 26 'pyramid' levels, consisting of 480 individual leagues (to save word confusion, it consist of 480 competitions - that is to say, groups of teams who play each other). That's over 7000 (yes, SEVEN THOUSAND) teams (playing at least 77,000 players) in total, all of whom could get relegated down right to the bottom from the top or promoted to the top, right from the bottom (albeit taking 26 years of consecutive promotions and going from a level where about 20 people are in the crowd up to the all-seater stadiums of 60,000).

 

Basically, REALLY? Not enough?

 

Nedew, you really might want to investigate how this game makes much of its money. How many Premier League clubs play in BILLION dollar stadiums that produce a couple hundred million dollars in revenue by themselves? We don't have 40 markets that could support an NFL franchise. Remember, the US is not the UK. In some ways, our standards are much higher. Team owners in this country expect a certain level of profit to be produced by their teams. The league requires certain levels of local attendance at games that affects TV coverage (the 'blackout' rule).

 

Seriously, stop trying to compare soccer in Europe with professional sports in the US. Apples and pears. Their business models are different, their operations are different, and their revenues are different. I can't see too many municipalities there kicking out 2 billion to build a stadium. But here, our new stadiums are destinations in and of themselves. Hell, the new Yankee stadium is going to have two full service restaurants (one of which is a Hard Rock Cafe) and a shopping mall in the stadium with over 1,000,000 square feet (93,000 m²) of retail space.

 

Just stop it. The two cultures are different, motivations are different, likes and dislikes are different, hell even the language differs a great deal. This isn't a bad thing (Spanish in Spain is spoken differently than in Puerto Rico or Venezuela or Uruguay and all of their cultures are different as well). You'll never understand our sports and why things are done here, just as most of us will never understand your sports and why things are done there. Different perspectives and all that.

 

Let's not even get into the difference in the games. If I get a "red card" for drilling some dude so good that his mother three rows up in the stands screams, I don't wanna play.

[MattitudeV2]

Oh come on man. No need to get reactionary here. Edwards and Winslow both tore it up last year. Let Quinn get healthy and get a full season in as our starter and I won't worry about either. Granted Edwards has always had issues with his hands. But I can't place either his or Winslow's struggles purely on them. Receivers are dependent players and can only be as good as their quarterback. The Browns QB situation was never truly healthy from the point when Derek Anderson got his head scrambled in the preseason.

 

Which is why i wouldn't put Anderson on that list either. He got hustled back from that preseason concussion and it doesn't seem like he ever fully recovered because of it. Looking back I really question whether Anderson should have played at all at the beginning of the season. If we didn't have last season as evidence he can play at this level and he hadn't gotten head-dropped in a meaningless game, that would be one thing. What happened is quite another.

 

And what would you have had Chudzinski do that he didn't? Dude never had a fully formed receiving corps this year. He was stuck having to play musical chairs at quarterback. And he calls a pretty nice balance of run and pass. In the month since the college coaching openings started opening, I kept pleading with the universe to let us fire Romeo NOW so Chud could be the interim coach and Mel Tucker could start applying for said openings. I understand the desire to bash everyone wholesale after a season like this. But if there was one assistant I was happy with, it was Chud. He appeared to be at least TRYING to do his job competently.

 

I agree your right but who do you think will become the new coach?

[GatorBait19]

I agree Remianen

 

Soccer has been played longer than American Football, and this year will mark the first ever professional stadium that sits over 100,000 people

 

sports in America are different than other places, we spend money on developing players, and on other aspects

 

There has been talk about a team moving to LA but the thing is the NFL isn't looking to expand anytime soon, they are looking to move a team instead, there aren't in my mind talented players to put together 40 teams, sure there are enough players but parody in the league would be huge

 

Basketball is now global, so is Hockey, and Soccer, but Football and Baseball (to an extent like in the middle east and parts of Europe, most players are from Japan, the Islands, or around the America's) but it is closer than Football

 

Soccer in America hasn't worked out like they thought it would, neither has hockey but the could be contributed to the strike and the fact they can't market for crap, but to compare Football to how you want it would be almost impossible, hell the Buccaneers last year as a divisional champ barely sold out their playoff game, and I personally believe Tampa is a nice size market

[Nedew]

Nedew, you really might want to investigate how this game makes much of its money. How many Premier League clubs play in BILLION dollar stadiums that produce a couple hundred million dollars in revenue by themselves? We don't have 40 markets that could support an NFL franchise. Remember, the US is not the UK. In some ways, our standards are much higher. Team owners in this country expect a certain level of profit to be produced by their teams. The league requires certain levels of local attendance at games that affects TV coverage (the 'blackout' rule).

 

Seriously, stop trying to compare soccer in Europe with professional sports in the US. Apples and pears. Their business models are different, their operations are different, and their revenues are different. I can't see too many municipalities there kicking out 2 billion to build a stadium. But here, our new stadiums are destinations in and of themselves. Hell, the new Yankee stadium is going to have two full service restaurants (one of which is a Hard Rock Cafe) and a shopping mall in the stadium with over 1,000,000 square feet (93,000 m²) of retail space.

 

Just stop it. The two cultures are different, motivations are different, likes and dislikes are different, hell even the language differs a great deal. This isn't a bad thing (Spanish in Spain is spoken differently than in Puerto Rico or Venezuela or Uruguay and all of their cultures are different as well). You'll never understand our sports and why things are done here, just as most of us will never understand your sports and why things are done there. Different perspectives and all that.

 

Let's not even get into the difference in the games. If I get a "red card" for drilling some dude so good that his mother three rows up in the stands screams, I don't wanna play.

 

Yeah fair dos I suppose culture does come into it, certain games just hit big in certain places and after a while those set mentalities do stay where they are. I was just interested in what your lots take would be on a change of league system.

 

I'm not even gonna start on the whole "let's move this FRANCHISE elsewhere!" business, that's happened once in over 100 years of competitive English football and it did not go down well to say the least

 

Money-wise though, you can say your teams are as rich as you like but none of them will top the new Manchester City owners The family's net worth is £322 billion ($644 billion)

[darthsiddus2]

Yeah fair dos I suppose culture does come into it, certain games just hit big in certain places and after a while those set mentalities do stay where they are. I was just interested in what your lots take would be on a change of league system.

 

I'm not even gonna start on the whole "let's move this FRANCHISE elsewhere!" business, that's happened once in over 100 years of competitive English football and it did not go down well to say the least

 

Money-wise though, you can say your teams are as rich as you like but none of them will top the new Manchester City owners The family's net worth is £322 billion ($644 billion)

 

I believe Real Madrid is worth more

[Blasphemywebleed]

I believe Real Madrid is worth more

 

Real Madrid pull in the most revenue a year, last time reported it was a rather nice £261 million. Manchester City are however the richest club in the world.

[cappyboy]

I agree your right but who do you think will become the new coach?

 

Right now, I don't care who the next coach is. Until we find Phil Savage's replacement, that point is moot. And we do need two guys. I'm very much a believer that investing both jobs in one guy spreads him too thin. So to start there, I have to say I'm becoming more a believer in the Pioli movement. At first it struck me as pie in the sky from disgruntled fans engaged in wishful thinking. But after reading in the Plain Dealer online about Pioli's history and why that does make the move viable, I'm much more inline with the idea. I love stories about guys coming back to their roots like Pioli would be coming here.

 

But to answer the question actually asked, I'm liking the Mangini talk that's been going around. Him getting fired from the Jets after the season they had struck me as a college move. You can't just spend your way out of your problems and expect it to happen overnight. Getting a guy with that kind of chip on his shoulders could be great for our intensity on the field.

 

People have talked about Cowher and Marty. But I'm not a big believer in either move. For all Cowher's history with us and his pedigree, it's been going around how he wants full power. No thank you. And Marty was just saying on the Sirius Blitz how happy he is living his post-coaching life. So I don't him as a viable option either. Brian would work for me though.

 

In fact, if our guy doesn't have prior head coaching experience, the only name I'm going to be happy with is someone like a Brian Schottenheimer or Rex Ryan. Someone with that coaching pedigree to add to his crediblility. No knock on a guy like a Steve Spagnuolo or Jim Schwartz. But Palmer, Davis and Crennel were all first time head coaches. So I feel it's time to go in a different direction. The thing that really makes Mangini appealing is that he has that experience, a decent career record to build on and he's still incredibly young by coaching standards. If we can get him in here with Pioli as GM, he could have an old-school style 20 or 30 year tenure. Or at the very least a run like Mike Shanahan just finished in Denver.

 

Another name I've brought him in bar discussions on possible coaching replacements is Jim Fassel. He went to the Super Bowl (albeit on the losing end) at the early part of this decade wth the Giants. His most recent job has been in the division as OC for Baltimore. And he's been out of the chatter long enough that he could be a good surprise name. He'd have much more head coach credibility walking in the door than a Spagnuolo or a Schwartz would. And don't get me wrong. I think Spags and Schwartz could be really good coaches for someone. But they are rolls of the dice and I want a surer thing right now.

 

Essentially, if we can land Pioli as GM, Mangini's my guy on the sidelines. If we have to talk to a Bobby Grier or Ted Sundquist because Pioli stayed in New England, then I'm open to any and all experienced suggestions.

[foolinc]

I agree Remianen

 

Soccer has been played longer than American Football, and this year will mark the first ever professional stadium that sits over 100,000 people

 

sports in America are different than other places, we spend money on developing players, and on other aspects

 

There has been talk about a team moving to LA but the thing is the NFL isn't looking to expand anytime soon, they are looking to move a team instead, there aren't in my mind talented players to put together 40 teams, sure there are enough players but parody in the league would be huge

 

Basketball is now global, so is Hockey, and Soccer, but Football and Baseball (to an extent like in the middle east and parts of Europe, most players are from Japan, the Islands, or around the America's) but it is closer than Football

 

Soccer in America hasn't worked out like they thought it would, neither has hockey but the could be contributed to the strike and the fact they can't market for crap, but to compare Football to how you want it would be almost impossible, hell the Buccaneers last year as a divisional champ barely sold out their playoff game, and I personally believe Tampa is a nice size market

 

Considering that the MLS keeps expanding, the US team keeps improving, and the amount of TV coverage for the sport keeps growing in the US market, I think that soccer is doing quite well here in the States.

[GatorBait19]

No it is I didn't mean it like that, I meant it like how long it has taken. Not only that someone was talking to me the other day about this and he believes the only reason it has done better is because of immigrants, he said most black and white people in America could careless for the sport. and once again he said this, I don't follow it enough to care

 

 

and the funny thing is Man U is owned by an NFL team's owner

[Nedew]

and the funny thing is Man U is owned by an NFL team's owner

 

And they've got an enormous loan to deal with because of him taking out a huge loan to buy them, the richest club in the world are Manchester City, not United.

[GatorBait19]

I knew that I was saying Man U is owned by an American Football owner

[GatorBait19]

um i just read that Man U is the richest, now it is wikipedia where I am reading it, but what is your comment on that, cuz it doesn't talk about money with Man City

[Thomnipotent]

Mike Shanahan.

 

O WAIT.

[Blasphemywebleed]

um i just read that Man U is the richest, now it is wikipedia where I am reading it, but what is your comment on that, cuz it doesn't talk about money with Man City

 

I can assure you that Manchester United are far from the richest club in the world. Many including myself believe them to be the biggest club in the world if not for AC Milan and Real Madrid. But Manchester United are debt ridden beyond belief. As far as revenue is concerned they are the 4th biggest earners in the world.

[GatorBait19]

just because you are in debt doesn't mean you aren't the richest.

 

Yeah that sounds weird but when the Glazer bought in in 2005 it was because they were the richest and once there debt is cleared they still will be

 

someone want to clear that up?

[Blasphemywebleed]

just because you are in debt doesn't mean you aren't the richest.

 

Yeah that sounds weird but when the Glazer bought in in 2005 it was because they were the richest and once there debt is cleared they still will be

 

someone want to clear that up?

 

Well I can assure you that your sources of Wikipedia are wrong. The last time Manchester Utd were named as the worlds richest club was in February 2008. They were dethroned by bitter city Rivals Manchester City in September 2008.

 

I also don't understand your need to believe that Manchester United are the richest club in a sport that you have pretty much dismissed as being important in America?

[GatorBait19]

I was just trying to figure out

 

And you can say soccer is growing in America but that doesn't mean it will ever touch American Football, sure they are growing now but remember when they took what 6 teams out 10 years ago give or take

 

I have no problem with soccer really I don't, played it as a kid, but to say that it is growing in American to me doesn't make since, yeah it is but it will never touch the popularity that it has in other countries

 

And the reason I wanted to know is for knowledge, that's it

[Blasphemywebleed]

I was just trying to figure out

 

And you can say soccer is growing in America but that doesn't mean it will ever touch American Football, sure they are growing now but remember when they took what 6 teams out 10 years ago give or take

 

I have no problem with soccer really I don't, played it as a kid, but to say that it is growing in American to me doesn't make since, yeah it is but it will never touch the popularity that it has in other countries

 

And the reason I wanted to know is for knowledge, that's it

 

Ah well thats fair enough. The source you were looking at is outdated. If you search for Manchester City on google news you will have the facts.

 

I couldn't tell you the state of Football (Soccer to you) outside of Europe to be honest, and couldn't even tell you the names of more than 3 American soccer teams so I couldnt comment on the popularity of the sport over there.

[GatorBait19]

alright that works, I was just trying to figure out and neither could i