wrestlingfan1 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 <p>I thought about these while posting in another thread and figured I'd ask and see others opinions. So here goes...</p><p> </p><p> <strong><em><span style="color:#006400;">1. If you could bring back any fallen promotion with their mainstay roster which would it be and why?</span></em></strong></p><p> </p><p> <strong><em><span style="color:#006400;">2. Which storyline has turned you off of a promotion? Whether it be temporary or permanently?</span></em></strong></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color:#000000;">1) I'm torn between two very different promotion for two very different reasons. It would either have to be WCW mainly because they were the WWF's biggest and according to Vince I believe their only actual competition. It made for exciting times in the modern day era of wrestling where storylines for what ever god awful reason are more valued then the matches. I know many people who weren't just getting old enough to watch wrestling who became fans during the Monday Night Wars period of wrestling. The other would be ECW for pure love of the company. The hardcore may have turned many "over protective" parents off from letting their children watch them when they hit national tv but they were toned down from what they were. I used to stay up untill twilight hours just to watch their programming when it was shown on a local channel here. It was amazing. The matches seemed to flow more with the wrestlers having more control over their matches. </span></p><p> </p><p> 2) Their was a point in WWF that I stopped watching when they tried to do a necrophiliac (sp?) angle which was horribly tasteless and very anti wrestling related. I think it was about 6 months before I watched another WWF broadcast. Repeated storylines usually get the channel changed right away. For example, steve austin driving the beer truck to the ring and just a few years (if it was even that long) later kurt angle drove a milk truck to the ring. I've never watched ROH but have heard good things about it so i watched one of their DVD's Best of the Bloodiest or something like that. I can honestly say that if I was a follower this story line would have turned me off permanently. The wrrestlers in questioin Homicide of TNA fame and Colt Cabana/ Cabana Colt something like that. Apparently at some point during their feud the announcer mentioned that Homicide poured <span style="color:#FF0000;"><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">D</span></strong></span><span style="color:#FF0000;"><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">RAINO!!!!! </span></strong></span><span style="color:#000000;">down Colt's throat. Now i'm sorry but thats death not entertainment, I don't care what the reasoning is. I know wrestling is fake but there are some lines that you don't cross, no matter how bad ass you're trying to make some one look. </span></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hive Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 1) WCW. It was what I watched when I was a kid, it's what got me interested in wrestling. I have such fond memories of it... 2) Most stuff the WWE is doing. They switch between incredibly lame and childish storylines to borderline offensive and out of the way obscenities. Weird and repulsive mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 1) I agree with Hive on this. Definitely WCW. If not that, I liked the concept of WWA. Too bad it never really picked up. 2) Most early DX stuff. HLA segments. It didn't turn me off wrestling completely, but I'd certainly switch the channel. Same with "Oklahoma". As an aside, EVERYTHING gets repeated at one point or another. It's a matter of it being done well. i.e. The champ could go after something in the challenger's past. So long as it's not necrophilia it's probably good. Still, repeated storyline. Someone mentioned in the WCW thread - Bret Hart framing DDP of using a foreign object. Eddie re-did that, and it was still great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefmoon Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 For example, steve austin driving the beer truck to the ring and just a few years (if it was even that long) later kurt angle drove a milk truck to the ring. It was about two and a half years later, and it wasn't stealing the same idea, Angle was doing it as a parody to get under Austin's skin. Remember Angle was doing it to Austin, so it was related, not a rip off. I personally thought the whole milk truck thing was hilarious and really enjoyed it. As for the questions, the first one is really any company that can challenge the WWF/E because the company performs better when it has competition/people to steal workers off/more rounded wrestlers rather than trying to create their own talent from the start. However, I didn't get to see enough of WCW (it only became really easily watchable around '99 in the UK as I remember it which was incidentily when the shows and booking became unwatchable. The main thing that turns me off about wrestling is when the industry overall just offers me nothing. This happened from 2001-2002 and then got worse in 2003 when, after patches of good spells amongst some bad stuff we got Goldberg, Nash, Steiner etc finally doing something in the WWE and it was alrgely not only forgettable, it was terrible. Add to that Undertaker's presence (I respect the hell out of the guy and he's done a lot of good but at times, especially during this period he drove me mad with a pretty bland gimmick and generally just staying at the top of the show and not putting over new talent when there were more worthy people below him) in the main event I stopped enjoying it as much. After this I didn't have the patience with wrestling that I once had. Things like the state of Smackdown in 2004 for a while, the Mohammed Hassan angle (which had potentially until it became an Islamic angle), stuff like that no longer were okay to put up with. But if I had to pick particular things that annoyed me to the extent that I couldn't watch any more (and mainly WWE as I didn't have enough access to WCW)- the Katie Vick angle, Triple H beating Booker T at Wrestlemania in a match with racist undertones (Triple H was right to win until they brought in the whole "your type don't deserve the title" because that just makes it seem like Triple H was right which is ridiculous), the Mohammed Hassan/Undertaker thing and the way Eddie's name was used following his death. The worst bit about this was either Orton destroying the low rider or a cringe worthy segment where Rey "blames" Eddie for his low Rumble number. But I guess, to end this ridiculously long post, the thing that makes the biggest difference is not the angles themselves but whether I have any reason to watch, and that's why as the invasion angle went along my interest in current day wrestling dropped to a level that it's never really been able to get passed. And no matter how much I watch or do anything wrestling related, I don't enjoy it like I once did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsmeister Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 1. ECW (the real one) 2. Katie Vick springs to mind but i kept watching WWE i do go through spells where i dont watch but i always read what happened. TNA i used to watch up until mid 2008 when i just go fed up with the whole product, i read the odd show if someone mentions something interesting happened but its just to frustrating. I was a big ROH follower from 2006 to late 2008 but i havent been as impressed since Gabe left, the tv show i watched for a bit but its just not what the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Keef, with regards to the Booker T/Triple H bit...there was a mini riot at my place when that happened. The win I can live with (even if I hated it), but then to bury the guy the next day...why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Black Phenom Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 What was wrong with SD!'s state in 04? unless you mean JBL's long title reign which is quite a 'hate or love' thing, heh. I'd bring back the old ECW. With Paul Heyman at the helm of course. Here were a few guys who were not only passionate about putting on a show, but each came up with their own little ideas which made the show that much more entertaining. Nothing really turned me away from wrestling, but one thing which had me change the channel was Vince's Million Dollar Mania last year. That was so horrendous and very WCW-like, the bad kind of WCW that is. Fair enough if you wanna rack in more fans, but do it the old fashioned way, would ya? Putting on a good show, and not spending your time putting on your old man glasses and taking five minutes to compose a number. But the Orton/Eddie segments were quite the cringer. And I'm sure you forgot to mention when Big Show spat on the lowrider. Lot of people were annoyed with that, even Rock and Austin(neither were around WWE programming at the time) both didn't waste time in displaying their disgust towards everything that occurred there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angeldelayette Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I'll edit this post a little later with the answer to the second question.. 1) The old school 1980's version of Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling. I know a lot of people are saying WCW and I was a huge fan of WCW but Mid-Atlantic was where it was at. Ric Flair's feuds with just about everyone from Nikita Koloff to Dusty Rhodes to Ricky Steamboat to Magnum T.A. to Harley Race, etc, etc, etc. were simply legendary. Of course this is assuming that everyone would be at their prime from the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedew Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Whenever I think of the Booker T/Triple H WM19 match, all I can think of is the half an hour between the Pedigree and the 3 count. They must've just laid there for at least 30 seconds to a minute, an unbearable wait. Booker T can't beat a 60 count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I'd love to see a "real" ECW... but as for their Mainstay roster, they're all too old and beat-up now. I loved them back in the day, and occasionally rewatch tapes, I have very little interest in seeing new content from them. Storylines that have turned me off? Tough one. I'll start by saying the necrophelia thing didn't bother me a bit. Not at all. I thought it was stupid, sure, but then I just moved on the the next thing. It surprises me how much people flip out over that. The milk truck was BRILLIANT, for the reasons keefmoon said. It wasn't "repeating a storyline", it was a CALLBACK! If that went over your head, then... well... yeah. This Main Event mafia thing has sort of driven me away from TNA. Although I put more blame on being the ridiculously low match ratio, lack of X-Division action, and generally not wanting to watch more wrestling than I already do. However, the Main Event Mafia is completely ridiculous to me. It's nWo, with every single mistake included. It doesn't offend me as a viewer, but from a narrative standpoint it's terrible. I did stop watching wrestling for a couple of years, but I'm struggling to remember why. I'm thinking boredom more than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 2. Which storyline has turned you off of a promotion? Whether it be temporary or permanently? Well, Big Bossman handcuffing and nighsticking Hogan was the end of me watching WWF as a kid. Does that count? I didn't start watching again until 97. So even though I watched WCW, I had never seen a guy like Hall while they were in the WWF, and I missed HBK and Hart's rise to the top. Since I've been an adult, I can't think of anything that's permanently turned me off; the most recent temporary storyline that got me to stop watching temporarily was JBL going over Eddie Guerrero, as JBL had just turned heel and instantly received a main event program which saw him going over while Eddie bled like nuts to try to make a goon like JBL even halfway believable as a main eventer. I stopped watching Smackdown when JBL won the title, as Smackdown from top to bottom was just awful during much of this period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestlingfan1 Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 The milk truck was BRILLIANT, for the reasons keefmoon said. It wasn't "repeating a storyline", it was a CALLBACK! If that went over your head, then... well... yeah. This Main Event mafia thing has sort of driven me away from TNA. Although I put more blame on being the ridiculously low match ratio, lack of X-Division action, and generally not wanting to watch more wrestling than I already do. However, the Main Event Mafia is completely ridiculous to me. It's nWo, with every single mistake included. It doesn't offend me as a viewer, but from a narrative standpoint it's terrible. It was about two and a half years later, and it wasn't stealing the same idea, Angle was doing it as a parody to get under Austin's skin. Remember Angle was doing it to Austin, so it was related, not a rip off. I personally thought the whole milk truck thing was hilarious and really enjoyed it. * In amends to my first post Bloodstained Honor was the ROH DVD in question. * The whole milk/beer truck thing was just an example. I didn't pay attention long enough to remember who was in the ring I seen Kurt driving the truck to the ring knew what was coming and changed the channel. So it wasn't that it went over my head I just didn't watch it. I flipped back and seen Angle drinking the milk like it was a can of beer and pouring it on himself like he just won some major award. If their was some higher purpose than just call it a bad example. But my point was to say when the company repeats something i lose interest it might not turn me off completely but its not entertaining. Thats part of the reason why I don't buy the pay per views anymore, but thats another story on another topic. * As for TNA I used to love watching them when they had a one hour time slot. More matches less BS, when they had their first ever 2 hour show before officially moving to two hours I had that on my Digital Cable box stored up untill I moved and had to return my box. After they officially moved to 2 hours they started following the modern day crap where you get wrestlers acting more than you have them wrestling. I still catch them from time to time and the matches they do have are better than anything I've seen from WWF in a long long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningHamster Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 1. Most promotions that went out of business would not be worth bringing back to me, as they either ran their course, their talent is a little old and beaten up now, or there are other promotions doing the same thing they did. So I am picking a dark horse. H2 Wrestling. They went out of business without even running a show, their core group pretty much consisted of Teddy Hart. I would love to just watch a promotion that was nothing but a platform for Hart's insanity. It would be a trainwreck, but an entertaining one. 2. When Ultimate Warrior beat Hogan I stopped watching wrestling for years. Other storylines that have nothing to do with wrestling kind of annoy me too. I remember Jim Cornette asking one time in an interview how something like a pregnant woman getting injured and losing her baby sells tickets. Same with necrophilia. I guess I find WWE storylines more offensive than most others because of the context of the promotion. A big mainstream company making money off tasteless stuff, while also censoring and watering down other parts of their product is more offensive to me than if some trashy indy did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefmoon Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 What was wrong with SD!'s state in 04? unless you mean JBL's long title reign which is quite a 'hate or love' thing, heh. There wasn't anything inherently "wrong" with Smackdown in 2004 (sorry I meant early 2004), it just wasn't very good in my opinion. I liked JBL's reign and that was the one thing I enjoyed about it. But having lost Benoit to Raw, Brock to NFL, Angle to injury, Shelton to Raw, they didn't really have anyone to gain my attention. Undertaker wasn't great in adapting back to his role as the Deadman because he looked and seemed the same as when he was a biker except his promos were just "rest in peace". They didn't seem to know what to do with Booker T and he had a terrible feud with Undertaker (after being a midcarder on Raw, so didn't seem like a big name). The Dudley Boyz were stale. You had bland midcarders like Kenzo Sukuki, Rene Dupree, Luther Reigns etc. You had Charlie Haas and Rico and the Bashams as the main tag teams. There was Mordecai. Jacqueline and Chavo Guerrero Sr were the Cruiserweight Champions. The main event of Great American Bash was Undertaker vs Dudleyz with Paul Bearer getting buried in cement. It was just all so uninteresting. Whenever I think of the Booker T/Triple H WM19 match, all I can think of is the half an hour between the Pedigree and the 3 count. They must've just laid there for at least 30 seconds to a minute, an unbearable wait. Booker T can't beat a 60 count? Yeah, I remember that. It was such an anticlimactic ending to a storyline that was really distastful. To think that the premise of the feud was Triple H saying "your kind don't deserve to be champion" and then beating him and seemingly proving him right is pretty disgusting. I don't see where racism has a place in wrestling. (Speaking of which, saying that reminds me of the La Resistance and Scott Steiner feud. Does anyone else remember that? La Resistance made pretty logical points about America's international policy and Steiner virtually said "no, you're wrong, USA! USA! USA!". That's something that tends to turn me off wrestling- when WWE turns every non-American in to an anti-American.) Since I've been an adult, I can't think of anything that's permanently turned me off; the most recent temporary storyline that got me to stop watching temporarily was JBL going over Eddie Guerrero, as JBL had just turned heel and instantly received a main event program which saw him going over while Eddie bled like nuts to try to make a goon like JBL even halfway believable as a main eventer. I stopped watching Smackdown when JBL won the title, as Smackdown from top to bottom was just awful during much of this period. Yeah, in hindsight it was a bit soon but as i remember it Eddie couldn't cope with being champion (didn't help his sobriety) and he suggested JBL to become champion. And when you consider that the only other "names" on the roster were Undertaker, Booker T, Rey Mysterio & Rob Van Dam, three fo whom were faces and the latter three were treated like midcarders, there wasn't a great option to be honest. I'll start by saying the necrophelia thing didn't bother me a bit. Not at all. I thought it was stupid, sure, but then I just moved on the the next thing. It surprises me how much people flip out over that. You see, I wasn't offended by this as much as I thought it was ridiculous. It was pointless. What did the necrophillia thing add to it? Kane is number one contender, he torments and keeps getting upper hand over Triple H because he's such a monster, Triple H isn't sure he can beat him, cheats to win. You can go with that angle, or for approximately zero extra buys you can have a ridiculous story about Kane driving a girl back from a party, crashing the car, killing her, then having sex with her corpse. Why do it? What also doesn't help this is the ridiculous Kane backstory. He is burnt as a child, watches wrestling with his uncle Paul who turns out to be his dad who is managing his brother, but also is in a mental institution but still makes it out to parties even though he's covered in either literally or emotionally scarred and gets attacked by someone every May 19th. I personally think it was inconsiderate of the other party goers to not tell Kane (who may or may not have gotten a driving licence in between mental asylum trips) that he probably shouldn't drive as his vision probably wasn't great what with the mask and the long hair that was attached to the mask although wasn't attached when he was demasked a couple of years earlier. That is why I hated that angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevermore Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 You see, I wasn't offended by this as much as I thought it was ridiculous. It was pointless. What did the necrophillia thing add to it? Kane is number one contender, he torments and keeps getting upper hand over Triple H because he's such a monster, Triple H isn't sure he can beat him, cheats to win. You can go with that angle, or for approximately zero extra buys you can have a ridiculous story about Kane driving a girl back from a party, crashing the car, killing her, then having sex with her corpse. Why do it? What also doesn't help this is the ridiculous Kane backstory. He is burnt as a child, watches wrestling with his uncle Paul who turns out to be his dad who is managing his brother, but also is in a mental institution but still makes it out to parties even though he's covered in either literally or emotionally scarred and gets attacked by someone every May 19th. I personally think it was inconsiderate of the other party goers to not tell Kane (who may or may not have gotten a driving licence in between mental asylum trips) that he probably shouldn't drive as his vision probably wasn't great what with the mask and the long hair that was attached to the mask although wasn't attached when he was demasked a couple of years earlier. That is why I hated that angle. Very well put. I can't understand Kane marks, to be honest. When he first debuted, granted, he was cool as hell but the gimmick has got so ridiculous that I can't take him seriously anymore. Certainly, the final nail in the coffin for me was unmasking him... and him not having any scars! I suspended disbelief over what was, effectiveley, a B Horror Flick rip-off story for years gladly... 'cos it was kinda cool. That was about the point that I stopped watching the 'E and started on TNA. I came back for the ECW stuff and then that inevitably went downhill too and I switched off altogether. Finally, and sadly, TNA became just another WCW, imho, and I haven't really watched wrestling with anythoing close to regularity for about 2 years. Quote The Raven Nevermore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefmoon Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Very well put. I can't understand Kane marks, to be honest. When he first debuted, granted, he was cool as hell but the gimmick has got so ridiculous that I can't take him seriously anymore. Certainly, the final nail in the coffin for me was unmasking him... and him not having any scars! I suspended disbelief over what was, effectiveley, a B Horror Flick rip-off story for years gladly... 'cos it was kinda cool. That was about the point that I stopped watching the 'E and started on TNA. I came back for the ECW stuff and then that inevitably went downhill too and I switched off altogether. Finally, and sadly, TNA became just another WCW, imho, and I haven't really watched wrestling with anythoing close to regularity for about 2 years. Quote The Raven Nevermore The whole Kane thing has been ridiculous. His hair was attached to his mask even though it wasn't 2 or 3 years earlier. His scars were emotional, yet people recoiled a tthe sight of his burns in previous years. Ridiculous. When he unmasked I didn't mind the hair thing (I can suspend by disbelief and hatred as the lack of continuity because, you know, this is Kane we're talking about) because his make up and the black bits on his face and stuff looked good. Bless him, Glen Jacobs isn't the best looking of lads so that smeared black make up and everything looked good and menacing. Then the next time he came out... he was just a big of an ugger. I know Gene Snitksy tried to make a career out of not being a good looking bloke but Kane was supposed to be psychotic because of the burns he suffered in a fire. THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF HIS ****ING CHARACTER, NOT THAT HE WAS PUG UGLY! And what is most annoying is, as you say, his whole thing was quite cool. It's wrestling, so we can hold our disbelief to a point so having this psychotic monster with burns all over his body worked. His character had so many obvious turns- he comes in as a heel because he's psychotic, but gradually he grows to trust people and enjoy the fans support and stuff, then gets used and abused because people can take advantage of the fatc that he's not nromal, turn him psycho again, whatever. There was potential. The problem is, I think Kane's character went downhill when he didn't really get revenge on X-Pac (which I thought was a good story) and then spent most of 2000-2003 either not in feuds with anyone or not being treated any differently to anyone else. He was portrayed as Undertakers inferior brother, then a tag team wrestler, then nothing. Fantastic. I know I'm ranting, but I also have an issue with Kane (not the guy, but everything surrounding him) because of the whole stupid voice thing (he can't talk at all. Now he can talk with aid of a macihne. Now he can talk without it. Now he can talk completely and freely. Okay...) and one of the worst feuds I've ever seen in my life- Kane vs Chris Jericho, which started when Jericho spilt coffee on him. What kind of a retarded way to start a feud is that? And oh, of course, Big Show versus Kane at King of the Ring 1999. The worst show on one of the very, very worst pay-per-views in history. Add all of these things together and that's one hell of a resume you've got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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