DOTM: July Nominations

[Nevermore]

That is one of the nice things about this board that seperates it from so many cesspits in the internet plains. There isn't this band of elitists trying to keep anyone out, to discourage "newbs" from posting. People with unwarranted feelings of superiority just because their join date is slightly lower then yours.

 

The reason why I post here is because I feel welcome and equal, and I will fight any encroachment on those areas, no matter how small.

 

(cue the patriotic music)

 

Realistically, I think this should be opened up for other people to have their say.

 

However, I quoted the above because I do agree whole-heartedly with it... except for the Satr Spangled Banner bit. It might be better than God Save The Queen but not by much .

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[praguepride]

It might be better than God Save The Queen but not by much .

 

 

I was whistling the

while fixing my dinner after posting that

[Self]

Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, yo!

 

Personally, I wouldn't put Marvel/DC wackiness in C-Verse. Partly because I don't want added competition Partly because the C-Verse Diary of the Month award has such a long running history, and a purity to it. It's a celebration of the world Adam created, and the diary writers who use it utilise a particular skillset to bring those characters to life. Writing about Wolverine and Batman isn't the same. Much like Real World, readers have strong pre-existing notions about what the characters are 'supposed' to be. You're living up to old standards, as opposed to defining new ones.

 

Heavier vote for previous Hall of Famers? Well if anyone gets it, it should be them. I may not be a major player in contributing to the C-Verse, but I've dabbled. My name is on the credits. Do I deserve a stronger vote? No. Not at all. In the diary field, I'm a rookie. I've only been around 6 months. I don't know the vets from the guys who started a week before me, and the Hall of Fame should be a celebration of 'careers'. History is important. Again, I don't know if previous HoFers should get a stronger vote, but if anyone should, they should.

[Hyde Hill]

Ehm how about a compromise.

 

on the hof: No extra voting powers for current members but when the thread starts they each get an official for your consideration post giving the link and reasons why they should be in there and also explain what they consider to be the standards for a HoF.

 

This should gaurentee no extra powers. If you don't like other people telling you how or what to do you can ignore it. It also helps to prevent this becoming a current popularity contest.

 

On the rookie split: Vote! Vote! Vote! Or Mistaken can just decide. Think 10/12 diaries with at least 5 per category would be a decent split point.

 

dww either let him decide or put it in C-Verse making it real world vs non real world. Altough the C-Verse is real to me dammit! lol.

[Phantom Stranger]

Ehm how about a compromise.

 

on the hof: No extra voting powers for current members but when the thread starts they each get an official for your consideration post giving the link and reasons why they should be in there and also explain what they consider to be the standards for a HoF.

 

Ugh.

 

Sorry, but ugh.

 

Purely because if that's to mean anything, no one else gets to pitch for their own favourites.

 

Frankly, I've no issue with HoFers getting a little more leeway.

 

What I think we need to remember is this:

 

Hall of Fame is not like the DotY. It's a smaller group.

 

In my opinion...

 

Those who GET considered should be able to point at multiple years and multiple diaries of success stories. (Note that this currently excludes, for example, me, as my original ROF was anything but a success story as a diary.)

 

There should be maybe 2 inductees a year if not only one. There certainly shouldn't be more than 4-5 candidates. So letting the HoF have a tiny, extra say in nomination really, really doesn't bug me.

[mistaken]

I have a ton to say so the easy part firs in it's own post.

 

any dairy based on the [Over 9000-verse] would be real world as it based on Copy writed materials, and thus I will take no risk in confusing it with any thing created by or for Adams game (such as the 75 cornelverse mod)

 

I just would never want that to be an issue for Adam. Yeah for legal answers!!!

[d_w_w]

Honestly, I'd probably prefer to just exclude myself from future nominations.

 

I appreciate the nomination to the rookie category, as it's not topic specific. But, the other categories seem fairly established and I don't really want to be the source of any confusion or contention.

 

Ideally, a third category could be made for "non-traditional" or "fantasy" diaries. That's impossible, atm, so I'll just play the game and hold out hope for some company

[Zeel1]

Honestly, I'd probably prefer to just exclude myself from future nominations.

 

I appreciate the nomination to the rookie category, as it's not topic specific. But, the other categories seem fairly established and I don't really want to be the source of any confusion or contention.

 

Ideally, a third category could be made for "non-traditional" or "fantasy" diaries. That's impossible, atm, so I'll just play the game and hold out hope for some company

 

Well, I think a pretty easy way to go about it would be to change the categories from "C-Verse and Real World" to "Fictional and Non-Fictional". 99% of all the fictional ones would still be C-Verse, and Non-Fictional wouldn't change anything, so the nominations would remain the same, save for allowing 9000-Verse diaries and such into the mix.

[The Final Countdown]

Those who GET considered should be able to point at multiple years and multiple diaries of success stories.

Multiple years, sure. But why multiple diaries? If someone devotes all of their time to one particular diary, does so for years, and produces high-quality work, why should they be any less qualified than someone who has run multiple diaries?

[Astil]

Well, I think a pretty easy way to go about it would be to change the categories from "C-Verse and Real World" to "Fictional and Non-Fictional".

 

Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, yo!

 

Personally, I wouldn't put Marvel/DC wackiness in C-Verse. Partly because I don't want added competition Partly because the C-Verse Diary of the Month award has such a long running history, and a purity to it. It's a celebration of the world Adam created, and the diary writers who use it utilise a particular skillset to bring those characters to life. Writing about Wolverine and Batman isn't the same. Much like Real World, readers have strong pre-existing notions about what the characters are 'supposed' to be. You're living up to old standards, as opposed to defining new ones.

 

I side with Self on this.

[mistaken]

Actually splitting the rookie vote for this month and this month only wouldn't be too bad an idea seeing as there are so dam many contenders. I can't be partial though as I am part of it. Altough it wouldn't increase or decrease a win chance. But would like to know other peoples thoughts on the subject.

 

Furthermore would it be an idea to set up a French type voting system with multiple rounds for the HoF or diary of the year awards? I have always been partial too that system.

 

PS I broke the damn!

 

Not going to happen (at least I am not going to do it). the rookie category is a nod in their direction. something to say keep it up, and to be honest it's success rate so far is hit and miss.

 

MLB has two MVP's, two rookie of the years, etc. National League (Real World) and American League (C Verse). I don't have an opinion one way or another. But this month it looks like what six, seven, maybe eight by the time we're done Rookie's thats a lotta rookies and it seems fairly split.

 

See there is a small problem with your logic, an athlete can only be a rookie once. Any Writer can dump his diary that is not winning in the main categories and start a new one to get another shot at rookie. If there is a weakness in the system that is where it lies.

 

Fair enough. I'm just asking you to have some faith in the rest of us.

 

We may not have all "lived through X or Y" but we're smart enough to get decent diaries into the otM/Y so give us some credit.

 

Now, I have a couple of proposed idea.

 

Sorry no general credit given, for the most part even at the diary of the month level there is bandwagoning, and votes given by people that read maybe 2 out of 6 or more diaries. But hey that is what the DOTM is and if you keep at it month in and month out, with real quality, the truth is you will probably get the recognition you deserve one way or another

 

 

1) We sort diaries based on age. An '05, '07, and an '08 category. At their oldest, an '08 diaries going to only be a year and a half old, and if you notice join dates that's when many of us who are active on these forums are from.

 

I have something along these lines in the back of my head, no quite so clear cut, but similar to how the NFL has three categories for their inductees.

 

 

2) Multiple rounds of voting. We nominate authors and link to ALL of their works, with the emphasis not only being on quality, but on consistency and continuity. Extreme quality can overcome consistency (Monkeypox's famous diary only went what...3 months in game time but it's legend will live on) while extreme consistency can overcome quality (not giving examples because that would be mean ).

 

I am almost certain there will be multiple rounds. and the Hall of fame today is not the Hall of Fame of 2 & 1/2 years ago.

 

3) You "grizzled veterans" represent vocally. Create a thread called "Nevermore's top picks" where you can advocate people read and consider certain diaries for X, Y, and Z reasons. You have influence, Nevermore, and you're free to use it just like I could attempt to use my pitiful influence to tell people to vote for A or B. You're on higher ground because you earned it one post at a time. Nobody can argue that.

 

Off of #3 though, by giving someone more power, no matter how small, it raises questions for me. For example, what if Bigpapa was inducted. Now his opinion counts more then mine even though I was writing diaries before he ever joined?

 

Now, I know his writing is better then mine, but what if it's someone who's not me. For every HoFer there's dozens of people who didn't get in. When you add more then just bragging rights to an award, you up the stakes for both the win and the loss. What if it's a close race and the guy only gets in because he got a bunch of friends to quick vote for him at the last second. Now not only do the losers have to face that loss, but suddenly their voice are that much less then his.

 

There is not Bandwagon voting as all rounds would be silent. only the person running it, and his back up would have any Idea where the vote count stands. And what I understand from Keef is that those who win do so diffinatively (except for the fact that 2 people have tied for 3rd two ceremonies running)

 

And what about the mod makers? Do they never get the chance for their voice to weigh in a little bit more then the rest?

 

The Mod makers get a say in the Mod Forum. No they do not get a say here. the only Mod Maker who would get a say is Adam, and i know his stock reply by heart, "I am currently busy working on XYZ" to take part in this.

 

These are extreme examples, I know, and maybe nothing will ever happen. Or maybe it will. Neither of us can say one way or the other.

 

I just feel that you and the other veterans have earned places of considerable influence, and don't discount the power of your voice. Not only do you not need any margin of power (because I'm sure any diary you nom will get seconded either by a true reader or a sheep follower) but it speaks higher of both you and this board that we don't encourage elitism, that the newest member has an equal voice in all things as the most seasoned veteran.

 

That is one of the nice things about this board that seperates it from so many cesspits in the internet plains. There isn't this band of elitists trying to keep anyone out, to discourage "newbs" from posting. People with unwarranted feelings of superiority just because their join date is slightly lower then yours.

 

The reason why I post here is because I feel welcome and equal, and I will fight any encroachment on those areas, no matter how small.

 

Yeah in every recognition we have, DOTM, DOTY and even HOF we seek to let every one participate. but those in the Hall of Fame worked the A**s off to get there, and were voted their by a group of their peers. They did not ask for or take the honor. But they have been so honored, and I think there are privileges that go with that honor.

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

I have never won an award on these Board. And do you know that I probably never will. I don't have an real power, you could all decide at any point you don't want me to run these award, and boycot them, or set up a separate thread. Or even complain to the Moderators and have me closed down.

 

I do this because I know if I was a writer of the caliber of some of you I would want something that says I stand out from the crowd of 50 new Diaries every month that come here to die.

 

But I feel like I need to state my Credentials. Why I feel it is my honor and privilege to this, the DOTM and to have helped with DOTY, and hopefully with the Hall of Fame. I have been reading these Diaries since they were on .400 Studios. I read Infinities original Welcome to the Coastal Zone. I read his Magnum Opus Welcome to the Real World (One of the best Diaries of all time)

 

Though I made the Jump to GreyDog before 05 was released, I missed out on the '05 era over a stupid feud with Adam. I began reading again with the arrival of '07, and writing right before '08 released.

 

To be honest it is a Fan that runs these awards, not a writer. and as a fan I think that those in the Hall of Fame have earned more than just the right to say they are in the Hall. They have a right to say (to a limited extent) who belongs there.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

I don't want to take anything away from Prague. So I think the easist way to remedy the whole situation is to give the Hall of Fame members their own inductee. (the following is a proposal and by no means the final say on anything)

 

My Proposal is that we induct the same number this year as last 5.

 

1 - Past Veteran, this is someone who has not had an active diary since the release of '08

1 - Hall of Famer's Choice

3 - Standard inductees

 

the Past Vet will be done by public nomination and 2nd, A public pole will determine the winner

 

the Hall of Famers can go about providing their name how ever they choose

 

the Standard inductees will go from one round to 2. Silent nominations, only those members receiving two votes will be added to the public list. Final balloting will be based on those that received silent nods only. Every one will be allowed only 2 noms in the first round. Silent makes you think about who really deserves it. and does not allow you to see who has already been nominated, so only those that truly deserve will get in to the second round.

[Hyde Hill]

Purely because if that's to mean anything, no one else gets to pitch for their own favourites.

 

Everybody gets to pitch they just get an "earmarked" pitch so to speak. They send it in beforehand or something giving them more time to write and think about it and it will be in the first posts after.

 

I am mainly thinking for the newer guys on these boards etc.

 

It wouldn't degrade their pitch if someone else made suggestions and pitched their ideas. It would just be these are the current HoF members and this is what they think.

 

Being first and having more time for it and earmarked as the current HoF already gives it more of a shine.

 

And as always a comprimise is something where both parties leave just as unhappy in many cases hehe.

[Nevermore]

My Proposal is that we induct the same number this year as last 5.

 

1 - Past Veteran, this is someone who has not had an active diary since the release of '08

1 - Hall of Famer's Choice

3 - Standard inductees

 

So far, I think this is easily the most sensible suggestion. However, I think the quantity is too great. Three standard inductees seems too steep and five altogether far too steep.

 

I think last year was a slightly special occassion because there was a general feeling that several people deserved it and I'm not sure it would be how I'd want things to go down again. Also, bear in mind one of the five was Adam Ryland who was a special occassion so to speak. Just my opinion...

 

So, since we're throwing ideas in a hat. Here's mine.

 

1 - Past veteran, according to your parameters

1 or 2 - Standard inductees

 

I think we should keep it something to strive for and, thus, keep the numbers limited but I'd be happy with either one or two standard inductees (with no account made of whether the writer specialises in C-Verse or real world).

 

In the standard category, I would have all votes and nominations be equal... completely equal. However, in the past veteran category either make it completely at the discretion of HOF'ers or HoF'ers votes could count for a multiple in an otherwise popular vote.

 

Perhaps, if the past veteran category was left entirely to HOF'er discretion, they would then not have a vote on standard inductees.

 

Personally, I think a combination of these ideas would be a great system. It allows a popular vote on who belongs in the hall of fame but also allows a kind of safety net. For instance, it feels really weird that me, Trist and Keefy are in there without Outlaw who was the other really notable real world author going at the same time as us; it just feels... wrong.

 

Thus, this way, I think it allows inductees to have the chance evey year to look back and say who they thought was on the same level as them. Kind of like a critics choice award or something (or not... I'm struggling for an analogy).

 

Opinions?

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[Nevermore]

And as a side note, I think this gets said far too rarely...

 

Thank you, Mistaken!

 

You really do put a tremendous amount of effort into the DoTM, DoTY, (now) the HOF and the quite spectacular records threads you've created.

 

You may not have won a diary award but I, for one, hugely appreciate your contributions to this whole forum!

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[Greg McNeish]

My Proposal is that we induct the same number this year as last 5.

 

1 - Past Veteran, this is someone who has not had an active diary since the release of '08

1 - Hall of Famer's Choice

3 - Standard inductees

 

the Past Vet will be done by public nomination and 2nd, A public pole will determine the winner

 

the Hall of Famers can go about providing their name how ever they choose

 

the Standard inductees will go from one round to 2. Silent nominations, only those members receiving two votes will be added to the public list. Final balloting will be based on those that received silent nods only. Every one will be allowed only 2 noms in the first round. Silent makes you think about who really deserves it. and does not allow you to see who has already been nominated, so only those that truly deserve will get in to the second round.

 

I've been following along in this debate, and first off, I'd like to extend my kudos to both Praguepride & Nevermore, for having such a thorough, well-spoken, and civilized debate. Not often do you see an exchange of ideas infused with this much passion, without it degrading into personal attacks, or belittlement. That deserves mention, so I applaude both of you (as well as the others who have weighed in).

 

 

Anyway, Mistaken's proposal sounds like a very fair way to go about things. I have no problem with the current Hall of Famers getting to choose one of the five inductees, just so long as they have no addition benefits, as it pertains to the general inductees. They can have their own inductee, but as soon as that's dealt with, they must then be afforded no more privilege than the "common man". Anything beyond that would be completely unfair.

 

Once again, kudos to everyone who's participated in this debate. It's been very thought provoking.

 

Cheers!

[Nevermore]

I've been following along in this debate, and first off, I'd like to extend my kudos to both Praguepride & Nevermore, for having such a thorough, well-spoken, and civilized debate. Not often do you see an exchange of ideas infused with this much passion, without it degrading into personal attacks, or belittlement. That deserves mention, so I applaude both of you (as well as the others who have weighed in).

 

 

Anyway, Mistaken's proposal sounds like a very fair way to go about things. I have no problem with the current Hall of Famers getting to choose one of the five inductees, just so long as they have no addition benefits, as it pertains to the general inductees. They can have their own inductee, but as soon as that's dealt with, they must then be afforded no more privilege than the "common man". Anything beyond that would be completely unfair.

 

Once again, kudos to everyone who's participated in this debate. It's been very thought provoking.

 

Cheers!

 

First of all, I'm here all week .

 

Secondly, the numbers should certainly be a matter for public consensus.

 

However, your part about the HoF'ers and the common man made most sense and, as such, I'm starting to favour the idea of having one inductee chosen outright by previous inductees (and I think that this one should be a "past veteran"). Meanwhile, I think the stand inductees should be a popular vote in which HoF'ers do not get to participate.

 

If this goes ahead, I think we should be able to campaign for our favourites but not vote. Think of us like a Robert De Niro to your Barack Obama . Except De Niro can actually vote... man, I'm struggling with the analogies today.

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[NoNeck]

I've been following along in this debate, and first off, I'd like to extend my kudos to both Praguepride & Nevermore, for having such a thorough, well-spoken, and civilized debate. Not often do you see an exchange of ideas infused with this much passion, without it degrading into personal attacks, or belittlement. That deserves mention, so I applaude both of you (as well as the others who have weighed in).

 

 

 

Echoed. And well said.

 

 

[Nevermore]

However, your part about the HoF'ers and the common man made most sense

 

Sorry... that sounded REALLY arrogant . I was just running with the analogy. Wait that's another analogy balls up.

 

Apologies.

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[mistaken]

I hate US all!

 

I still have to go back through all this and sort out the actually nominations that were made!

 

(A job for the morning I think )

[Nevermore]

I hate US all!

 

I still have to go back through all this and sort out the actually nominations that were made!

 

(A job for the morning I think )

 

Sorry... again.

 

But you did ask for it. Literally.

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[Dragonmack]

As someone who has done some of the past C-verse Diaries of the month, let me also put in my thanks for all the efforts of Mistaken in taking these things over, organizing them and placing them in centralized locations so we can look back over the past and see who the pioneers of diary writing were.

 

So , as someone who also never won an award here ( though I have been close ) I recognize and thank Mistaken for all his efforts.

[Oldschool]

I think you should just do it like baseball... have everyone vote and if diary writer A is mentioned on a certain % (75% in baseball) of the votes then they get in... Also in baseball they have the veterans comittee (current hall-of-famers) select a writer (usually these are past players no longer on the writers eligibility list (but do the same thing, have all the Hall of famers write in votes and if the same name is on 75% of their ballots they get in as well, if not then no-one gets in on Hall-of-famers ballot...

 

Or have the Hall-of-famers go first then open to the rest of the writers

 

Whatever is decided just let me know when I can officially vote

[Hyde Hill]

And as a side note, I think this gets said far too rarely...

 

Thank you, Mistaken!

 

You really do put a tremendous amount of effort into the DoTM, DoTY, (now) the HOF and the quite spectacular records threads you've created.

 

You may not have won a diary award but I, for one, hugely appreciate your contributions to this whole forum!

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

 

Hear, hear!

[praguepride]

My Proposal is that we induct the same number this year as last 5.

 

1 - Past Veteran, this is someone who has not had an active diary since the release of '08

1 - Hall of Famer's Choice

3 - Standard inductees

 

the Past Vet will be done by public nomination and 2nd, A public pole will determine the winner

 

the Hall of Famers can go about providing their name how ever they choose

 

the Standard inductees will go from one round to 2. Silent nominations, only those members receiving two votes will be added to the public list. Final balloting will be based on those that received silent nods only. Every one will be allowed only 2 noms in the first round. Silent makes you think about who really deserves it. and does not allow you to see who has already been nominated, so only those that truly deserve will get in to the second round.

 

 

 

So what this is telling me is that all the rest of us combined = 5 hall of famers. This is far more power then just a 2nd nomination, this means that while Writer A has to win a majority of the votes on the entire board, Writer B just has to get the majority of 5 votes!?

 

Let me put it another way.

 

Writer A had to earn 70 votes (arbitrary number) in order to get inducted. Writer B had to earn 2 votes. I hope you see the point I'm trying to make. This plays favoritism to the HoF even more so then any minor power and this was exactly the situation I had feared. I'll try and boil my points down to the "key bullets" and then we can always just vote on it later. I fear my cries for equality are falling into the minority, at least the vocal minority.

 

1. This board's strength is its equality. Any tangible division, no matter how great or small, not only destroys that but paves the way to abuse later.
   
2. Having inductees "cheat" the normal process diminishes their accomplishments. Instead of having to appease the whole board, they just had to appease the HoF. "If a HoFers friend gets inducted through the back channels, how many might wonder if she/he truly deserved it?"
   
3. It can easily breed resentment and discouragement if a writer feels the HoF is discriminating against them. \
   
4. If HoF power is later revoked (due to abuse, or just change in board climate) what do you do with the HoFers inducted via the "back channels?" "Everyone up there was voted by a majority of their peers....except for that guy that one time"
   
5. Although it may seem like a trivial thing now (an auto-2nd or whatever) all it takes is a precedent and a charismatic leader to pave the way towards something far worse. Anyone who knows their history knows this. It's might just be a 2nd vote now, and then a special forum, and then they'll have veto power, and so on. Is it likely, maybe, maybe not, but considering the whole legal system is built off of precedent, don't ever underestimates it's power or impact.
   

 

If you have questions about those points, I can clarify as needed. I think at this point the best way is to resolve it the way we resolve everything. With a vote! Or just have the HoFers decide what's going to happen

 

============================================================================================

edit:

As for #, remember we've run this last year and the year before. The '07's and '08 diaries have had their chances to win, and have either done so or failed for whatever reason. I can see the argument for having a category specifically for '05 and '06 (just lump them together I say) and having the current HoF inductees to operate the same as usual. It has worked very well in the past, we have a great group of guys in the HoF, I don't see any need to "mess with success" and alter the methods.

[praguepride]

As someone who has done some of the past C-verse Diaries of the month, let me also put in my thanks for all the efforts of Mistaken in taking these things over, organizing them and placing them in centralized locations so we can look back over the past and see who the pioneers of diary writing were.

 

So , as someone who also never won an award here ( though I have been close ) I recognize and thank Mistaken for all his efforts.

 

/nod. I'll be honest, I've read more then a few diaries based off of the HoF scoreboard. Plus it's a great link for all those past diaries that are buried on the forums.